quote:

---

I really can't understand how this is controversial or hard to believe.

- DAA

---

You must understand at least, that some people have doubt as to the conclusions voiced by the CONSENSUS FOLKS? Such as, the manipulation of data? All the projections are wrong, but all they need is a little tweaking here and there; "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".

For me, it's not that there may be a pause in warming, (which wrecks their theories) it's the serious belittling and the bullying of people that ask the questions, that want actual proof, not SCIENTIFIC MALARKY

AND, THE DRASTIC MEASURES! Come on! No, before I agree with their half baked solutions, I want actual proof, not sand pounding up my ass. I'm telling ya, 97% of "scientists" with their mouth on the funding teat is not my idea of credibility. Their climate models show that it's not happening, so what would honest scientists do about it? They are caught manipulating their friggin' data, that's what they do. LIARS, is what they are, and I'm comfortable being a denier, thank you very much.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: and yeah, Dave. I'm okay with people having an honest difference of opinion, as long as I am allowed that luxury, for the time being. I also, am not a crusader.

[ July 13, 2016, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

---

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on July 13, 2016, 12:19 PM:
 
I think the human caused global warming is Bullshit. Just another way to get more money out of people.They say that Mt.St. Helens eruption caused as much CO2 pollution as 300 years worth of human pollution. So go figure. Just another cause the left can make us all feel guilty about. But whatever.
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 13, 2016, 12:59 PM:
 
Leonard, you want proof, I think I can appreciate that. But you reject science.

What kind of proof do you need? I can't think of any other kind but science? If that's not going to be good enough, that's pretty much the end of that?

It's just so cut and dried to me. What burning hydrocarbons release and what those emissions do in the atmosphere. It's observable. Measurable. Reproducible. There is data. Tons and tons and tons of data. The dots connect so clearly, to me. And, like you said, 99% of the people who try and study and learn about this stuff.

Oh well. It's pretty low on my list of things to give a shit about, really. I'm just not going to be alive that much longer. None of us are.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on July 13, 2016, 02:41 PM:
 
I guess my problem is that they have only been really measuring this shit for the last say 50 years. But they know that it is all human pollution that has caused this global warming phenomena. When we have been having volcanoes that cause much more damage than human pollution for millions of years. And the science tells us that we have actually been warming since the last ice age. I really do give much thought about it to be honest. It will either get warmer or it won't, and anything that humans do won't do a damn bit to change it one way or another.

https://youtu.be/4akXzsQFGrA

[ July 13, 2016, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

---

Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on July 13, 2016, 02:47 PM:
 
With very little effort you can find a lot of science that contradicts ozone gore. A good place to start would be the links I posted.

The link where I say Those Martains need to shut down their coal plants is how some very prestigious scientist believe that the global warming we experienced up to 2000 was caused by solar irradiance. One piece of evidence is at the same time we have been warming up, the Ice on Mars has evaporated from the Martian canals.

Here is a cut and paste form the link:
"Mars, too, appears to be enjoying more mild and balmy temperatures. In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row."
"Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun. The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said."

IMHO we shouldn't destroy our economy because of scientists that won't release the raw data they used for peer review. Or if they do release it, it is only to like minded scientist. The Climate doomsdayers will not allow any discussion against climate change and will blacklist any contradictory opinions so as to prevent their papers from being published. Climate change is the only subject in the whole scientific world that does not allow an intelligent discussion with contrarian view points. All of this information was discovered when the hacked emails from the Climate Research Unit in England were released.
For my last cut and paste I will end it with this:
"The solar irradiance began to drop in the 1990s, and a minimum will be reached by approximately 2040," Abdussamatov said. "It will cause a steep cooling of the climate on Earth in 15 to 20 years."

[ July 13, 2016, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Aznative ]
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 13, 2016, 03:01 PM:
 
Well... none of that refutes the effect of pollution. None of it even addresses the question.

Not relevant to my simple, basic question here.

Which, you've already said - the very first thing you said was, I think, was yes pollution is having an effect on the atmosphere.

I think Leonard and Chad clearly don't believe it. I'm fine with that. Just agree to disagree.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on July 13, 2016, 03:55 PM:
 
Ok for shits and giggles lets say man made global warming is real. The data over the last 50 years proves it. Wouldn't that mean that in the past say 25 years that the (EPA) has been ramping up the regulations and environmental policies to fix this disastrous problem, that the data would show that it is starting to reverse the problem even if it is only a slight change. All I hear is that it keeps getting worse every year.
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 13, 2016, 04:36 PM:
 
All I can offer to that is my opinion. Which is...

No, not even close, not by a million miles.

The amount of pollution going into the air has been rapidly accelerating.

Reasons for that are super obvious, I think? All the Chinese economic growth, and other parts of the world. Etc.

More people means more pollution and they are making more and more people faster and faster all the time in developing parts of the world. Here too. If cars only put out half the pollution but there are five times as many, that's still more than twice the pollution.

As far as measuring what the atmosphere has composed of going back hundreds of millions of years. That's pretty basic stuff. Ice cores. It seems pretty straightforward and solid to me? Not that I'm qualified to say.

But the amount and type of pollution we are putting out now, it's not in the history. Never happened before, this way. Uncharted territory.

The atmosphere HAS undergone rapid changes before, many times before. Meteors, really huge volcanic activity. Stuff like that. Mass extinctions, huge changes in flora and fauna. Winners and losers. Like AZ is saying, not all the change is bad. I think the extinctions have already started. Amphibians, mostly. But thousands of species of them have gone extinct in the last 20 years.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 13, 2016, 04:37 PM:
 
This one that Chad posted covers pretty well the arguments that work with me.

https://youtu.be/4akXzsQFGrA

Besides that, it is well known the deceit involved by these pillars of the scientific community. There is no denying the manipulation of their climate models and then what do we have? Garbage in and garbage out as the saying goes.

Worse than that is the tactics. Denying climate change should be a fucking crime? What the hell are they afraid of?

If I appear to be a member of FLAT EARTH, or any other sort of ridicule they can dream up, then so be it. But, the way they throw around the billions of dollars on snake oil solutions is idiotic. I am not against research, but quit with THE DEBATE IS OVER!

Don't forget, the only country committed to OBAMA's solutions is America. They rest of them are going to do NOTHING.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 13, 2016, 04:44 PM:
 
To that last point...

I hear all the time that extinctions have always happened and always will.

Yes.

But, there is such a thing as a basic background level of extinction. An average rate that they occur. And all the stuff I have ever read about it, not counting mass extinction events, which have occurred five times in the distant past - not counting those, extinctions are actually not very common.

They seem to be occurring right now at a rate many, many times above what might be expected?

Whether it's man made or not, the temperature, PH and levels of the oceans are changing pretty darn fast. Micro climates in many places all over the world are experiencing changes. For species that have specialized, it really doesn't take much, just a couple degrees change in temperature - either way - to push them out of that habitat and if there isn't other suitable habitat available, they go extinct.

It's happening, a lot, right now.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on July 13, 2016, 04:48 PM:
 
Ok so if nothing we are doing is helping it looks to me we have one of 2 choices. "turn out the lights the party's over". And go back to the pre industrial days. Or " sit back and enjoy the ride". Quit throwing money and regulations at the problem and see what happens.
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 13, 2016, 05:04 PM:
 
The politics of this stuff are just about as vile a piece of shit from the compacted bowels of hell as anything could possibly be.

Truth, or what is right, aren't part of the calculus. Not even minor considerations. Everyone stakes out a position to further an agenda, to serve their own purpose. If the truth ever happens, it's just transient coincidence.

Where I know you guys will strongly disagree with me, is that I don't see the two sides as being distinguishable in this respect. They are all peas in the same pod.

If anything, I suspect there might actually be a few misguided, true believers on the eco-freak side. Whereas I don't think any of the players on the pro hydrocarbon side believe any of their own bullshit.

That said...

In terms of practical policy, I fall much closer to the pro hydrocarbon side.

I'm a practical man.

I don't think it's useful to deny the problems associated with pollution.

But I also don't think it's useful for the United States to put itself at competitive and economic disadvantage vs. the rest of the world in the name of saving the planet.

I don't think it's useful for the gov't to try and pick winners, or be involved in "clean energy" in any way. The best thing the gov't could do, is just get out of the way.

I think, probably, that eventually a market driven solution, or multiple solutions will emerge. New energy sources, whatever. But it will be good old fashioned profit that motivates it and brings it about and the gov't can't do anything but fuck that up.

Shorter term, practical ideas, I don't have many. Rehabilitate the image of nuclear and build more of it, would be one.

Another... My son is getting a master in electrical engineering with his emphasis on power engineering. He tells me, that simply modernizing the grid, using existing proven technology, besides making it way less vulnerable to terrorist sabotage, would result in such large efficiency gains that it would have the same effect as reducing demand by as much as 20%. That's pretty huge. And it goes along with all that "infrastructure" stuff all the politicos are always talking about. But, when they talk, their lips are moving, we all know what that means...

- DAA
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 13, 2016, 05:12 PM:
 
BTW... Long as I'm rambling...

I've long believed it will be the Chinese, not the US, that eventually leads the way on "clean energy". Whatever that means and whatever form the profitable version of it eventually looks like.

For one, they are suffering the effects of pollution far more acutely than we are. They are motivated, in that sense.

For another, they do business by jungle law. Look at what they did with solar panels, for instance. Even if they don't invent it, they'll steal it and sell it for less and end up dominating.

That's one of the few things Trump says that make any sense at all. When he talks about "having really good trade deals", what I think he means is, "you fuck us, we're gonna fuck you and your mother and your sister". At least I hope that's what he means.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on July 13, 2016, 05:18 PM:
 
I get where Dave is coming from, and everyone else.

I think we can all agree. We don't trust things when the gov't is telling us so. There is way to much money to be made when were lied to.

The bottom line. IMHO is we really don't know ? Pollution can't be good. On the other hand all that shit being sprayed in the air isn't either. I see it all the time, it's not commercial airlines either. It's flat enough here, I can see the oval formations & patterns.

That's a topic for another day, I "spose. It concerns me though.
 

---

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on July 13, 2016, 05:19 PM:
 
I can't really see anything I really disagree with in your last two posts. Makes sense to me.
 

---

Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on July 13, 2016, 06:29 PM:
 
DAA: Your last two post told me a lot of where you are coming from and I don't have any problems with you.

Yes I did say I believe mankind is having an impact on the climate. I know of two facts.

First, every morning I get up and walk the dog and feel the man made impact of this asphalt heat sink that I live in named Phoenix.

Second, CO2 has doubled and that is a fact. Now we all know Ozone Gore has made millions selling carbon credits whatever that is so he has a monetary based agenda. Climate researchers have never had it so good getting government grants now that Mr Ozone invented global warming. Thus, their computer models are skewed to spit out the worst possible scenario and shut down contrarians . Lastly, Obama wants the revenue cap and trade will bring in.

Since I cannot trust the science behind it, I just don't believe it will ever be as bad as they claim. Another fact is high CO2 is good for food production. In most parts of the world higher heat will mean high crop yields too. I fear a serious ice age much more than a degree or two of higher heat. An Ice age would kill hundreds of millions. You cannot grow food under snow and ice.

Just don't get me on renewable fuels. That really ticks me off, and I'll probably offend a few farmers.
 

---

Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on July 13, 2016, 07:02 PM:
 
DAA: I hope your son invents a new fuel source for cars. I never want to see this nation buy another barrel of oil from rag heads again.
You mentioned nuclear power which jogged my mind about one of Obama's/Hillary's scandals when they let Russia get control of a Uranium mine here in the US. Now why did they approve of that sell when we only produce 20% of what we use per year? They did it because they are environmental extremists who don't approve of nuclear power. Obama is sly like a coyote.
Another stupid Obama deal was trading AWOL Bergdahl for those five top taliban commanders? Obama used the opportunity to get rid of the five worst prisoners which would make closing Guantanamo easier.
Another stupid Obama deal is why didn't he approve the keystone pipeline? Two words, Warren Buffet. Warren Buffett owns the railroad that moves the oil today. Keystone would have killed a huge income stream for both a financial supporter and an ally in getting congress to increase capital gains.
I/we cannot afford another four years of Obama policies.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 13, 2016, 09:35 PM:
 
Yeah, Dave. As Chad said, I can go along with some of your recent statements.

But, like Az has mentioned a couple times, GLOBAL WARMING is kind of a good thing. So, those cagy folks change the game and now it's "Climate Change". And everything is the result of that. Cold winters, Hurricanes, no huricanes, heat waves, forest fires, you name it. You can't beat these lying bastards.

Pollution is a huge issue. About the only thing civilization can do is die off and give the planet back to the beasts. You know, the slash and burn practices of the primitive people in South America, you think they get a pass? No, no! There ain't nothing humans can do except leave for Mars, or maybe that's where we came from?

But, if Obama is convinced he has the answers, that's reason enough for me to oppose anything that cock sucker proposes. He's as close to one of those "useful idiots" I keep hearing about as anybody in this whole world. You guys really fucked up electing that bastard!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

---

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 14, 2016, 04:21 AM:
 
One a return trip from offshore, one look at the choking blanket of smog over the city and the island is quite telling. All that particulate matter in the atmosphere certainly has an affect. There's just no doubt about it...

However, the way the whole 'global warming' thing gets paraded in front of us, while much more pressing matters should be taking precedence, is what I don't like. Globalism, the corrupt banking industry, secret international trade deals, fueling racism & turning our citizens on each other, other 'false flags' to create fear & unrest...
the militarization of local LEO, the abundance & broad powers allowed to FEMA...the NSA's ability to oversee our electronically driven lives, rigged elections, the ruse of a 'two party' political system...the indoctrination of young people via an education system infiltrated by socio-fascist libtards...

yadda, yadda, yadda, ad nauseum

Just sayin, it ain't global warming that I'm fuckin' worried about. In truth, ain't worried about much. Whatever's comin'...bring it on.
Lets get this shit over with, in hopes that your kids & grand kids might still hope to have a Republic to live in where freedom actually means something.

But please, continue on with discussing global warming. Or, who kim kardasian is currently fucking. Or, what sports figure is beating his wife. Same difference...
 

---

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on July 14, 2016, 05:25 AM:
 
One solid meteor strike, one or two good earth quakes, and we'll be wishing all we had was a little warming, or cooling to worry about.
The predictions, such as 1 or 2 degrees of warming in the next 10 years, drives me nuts. Hell, they can't even tell me within a degree or two what the temp will be tomorrow with any certainty.
Something else to worry about is water, fresh water. At least in these parts it is being sucked out of the ground faster than it is replenishing. Won't last forever.

[ July 14, 2016, 05:57 AM: Message edited by: TRnCO ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 14, 2016, 06:29 AM:
 
I forgot to mention right when Dave was fretting about extinctions, etc. But anyway, you know, the polar ice was going to be gone and the polar bears positively would be threatened with extinction. No proof, just take it on faith, right?

So, I guess the ice melted but the damned bears didn't cooperate! We have substantially more polar bears now than whenever the baseline survey was done. They are happily chasing seals on the beach and surviving quite nicely. That's the problem with predicting things via your crystal ball.

Besides that, a few of the more honest scientists have discovered that the planet seems to have the ability to heal itself. News item recently; that hole in the ozone over the south pole is reversing. Now they need to dream up a reason to worry about it. That's the thing. Liberals and Democrats and bunny huggers (and Dave) need something to fret over. (sorry, Dave, I couldn't help myself) lol

Good hunting. El Bee
 

---

Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on July 14, 2016, 06:37 AM:
 
Which is it? Back before I moved to Alaska they were talking about global cooling and Nuclear Winter. No facts to substantiate the claims so we change to warming.

[IMG]http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd162/pk1_04/Facebook_meme_Global_Co oling_11_zps0e9n9rxn.gif[/IMG]

Look up the Chicago Climate Exchange and read about the fraud they were getting ready to expose us to until someone blew the whistle on them.

The facts don't support their claims. Satellite data shows no signs of warming in the past 19 years.

In Gore's movie not one of the scientists he quoted were climate scientists.

[ July 14, 2016, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: Moe ]
 

---

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 14, 2016, 08:08 AM:
 
Question;
With the planet warming..........
Wouldn't growing seasons become longer ??
Maybe two crops per season ??
More corn to convert into Ethonol to run our cars ???
More food to feed the starving masses ???
But..........
With warmer winters we would burn less carbon based fuel to keep our fuzzy butts warm.
A reduction of burning carbon could result in HUMAN CAUSED GLOBAL COOLING !!! (Back to where we are now)
Doom. Despair. Agony & Grief !!!!
The children will go hungry !!!
Something must be done !!!!
 

---

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on July 14, 2016, 08:15 AM:
 
Like Knockemdown mentioned, the moral decay of society scares me way more the any global warming B.S does. That will effect us and has effected us alot more than a few degrees of warming or cooling over a hundred years..
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 14, 2016, 08:49 AM:
 
Next, let's kick around how "BLACK LIVES MATTER" affect us, or perhaps, effect us. Who will start the ball rolling?
 

---

Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on July 14, 2016, 09:27 AM:
 
They are a plague on our society. Black version of the KKK

[ July 14, 2016, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

---

Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on July 14, 2016, 10:08 AM:
 
I'm to busy playing Pokémon-Go to worry about this stuff.

[ July 14, 2016, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 14, 2016, 10:34 AM:
 
Yeh right Dave. Laugh it off.

I know the citizen majority is more worried about just paying their bills, then wondering what the Kardashians are doing this week and cannot be concerned with these trivial matters.

You must suspect that Obama is the most divisive, race baiting incompetent to ever hold the office of President. No point in getting worked up about it.

What scares me is this asshole will command a Media platform long after he is out of office. We haven't heard the last of his bullshit beyond January 20, 2017. He will continue to stir the shit over every incident, white on black, black on blue and especially blue on black.

I'm just poking ya Dave. I know your heart is in the right place.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS I'm sick of it too, but until we start talking coyotes pretty soon, what else is there besides the pathetic state of the Nation?
 

---

Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on July 14, 2016, 12:59 PM:
 
Yeah, that's kinda my dry sense of humor LB.

Check this out. People are losing their stupid minds. While our nation is being systematically dismantled.
http://www.oregonlive.com/trending/2016/07/fire_department_creates_pokemo.html#incart_river_home
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 14, 2016, 01:04 PM:
 
My kids explained what that is to me last night while we were eating ice cream.

Kinda funny, actually, we sat there eating our frozen custard watching two idiots stumbling around face down looking at their phones rooting for them to get run over.

The whole family is kind of in favor of idiot fatality. Well, no, the wife is too kind hearted for that. It's just me and the kids that were hoping they'd get plowed.

- DAA
 

---

Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 14, 2016, 01:07 PM:
 
#idiotlivesdontmatter



- DAA
 

---

Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on July 14, 2016, 02:55 PM:
 
Just this week I almost clipped 2 guys in the street playing that fucking game.

My son is 21 and has rediscovered his old Pokeman cards...he sent some off to be graded and recently sold 2 cards and made a 700 dollar profit. I about shit my pants.
Mark
 

---

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 15, 2016, 04:02 AM:
 
been chasing my Pokeyman around for 6 years now, what am I missing?
 

---

Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on July 15, 2016, 06:20 AM:
 
You have the real deal Pokeyman, Fred.

Check this dipshit out..
http://www.oregonlive.com/trending/2016/07/oregon_man_crashes_into_tree_playing_pokemon_go.html#incart_river_home_pop
 

---

Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on July 15, 2016, 06:45 AM:
 
I too agree with Knockemdown that moral decay plus the destruction of our language, borders, and culture are much bigger threats than global warming or cooling whatever. What does concern me about global warming is how the left wants to use this issue to tax the hell out of us and take control of our everyday energy use. It is all about the left getting control and money that will give them the power to further their destruction of our morals, culture, language and borders. I do have to give Michael Savage credit because his three big issues are borders, language and culture. I hear him more days than not.
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 15, 2016, 10:08 AM:
 
a ray of hope

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/07/britain_closes_down_global_warming_bureaucracy.html
 

---

Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on July 15, 2016, 11:33 AM:
 
Good for them.
 

---

Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on August 01, 2016, 06:02 AM:
 
and now there is talk of a possible asteroid strike coming our way, so which is more concerning for us, a 1 or 2 degree warm up, or an asteroid strike.

Pasted from the article found on Foxnews.

A huge asteroid hurtling through space at 63,000mph could one day hit Earth causing "immense suffering and death", astronomers say.

The space rock was discovered in 1999 and is likely to blast in between the Earth and the moon in 2135 - a little too close for comfort.

But on a return trip later in the century, it is estimated the asteroid known as 101955 Bennu could actually strike our planet.

Dante Lauretta, the NASA expert in charge of a new mission to analyse the asteroid, said: "That 2135 fly-by is going to tweak Bennu's orbit, potentially putting it on course for the Earth later that century."
 

---

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 01, 2016, 07:09 AM:
 
Remind me to be out of town that day.
 

---

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.0