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Author
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Topic: what are you using on coyotes?
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted April 28, 2017 01:25 PM
So true about the Swift. If I could buy one in a Remington 700 Classic for a reasonable price I would do it in a second. Really wish I had when they first came out but that was back in my poor days and I never did it. Of course it would just be for the cool factor. Only other I would like to have is that same Classic Rifle in .17 Remington....Again just to say I have one
Posts: 1629 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 28, 2017 06:42 PM
Well, besides "just to say I have one" I need to make the observation that it wouldn't be such a handicap to actually use a Swift. It's one Legend that can back up the reputation.
Course, I don't have to worry about it because I still got mine, even if I haven't fired it in ten years. But, I could kill something with it tomorrow, if I wanted. Yeah, I know about the throat.
Good hunting. El Bee
[ April 28, 2017, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31496 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted April 29, 2017 11:20 AM
Oh I completely agree with that assessment. The Swift would be one hell of a Coyote rifle to have. But having a .22-250 Ackley kind of defeats the purpose of having the Swift other than For the "cool factor". Not belittling the Swift I just think the Ackley is a better Cartridge. The Swift would just collect dust but like I said it would be cool to have one.
Posts: 1629 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 29, 2017 04:02 PM
Exactly. I have the same opinion. I have two 22-250Ackleys and my Swift is not as accurate as it once was, so....
But, when somebody needs a gun, it makes a more than adequate loaner.
Wonder if I should start thinning the herd?
I'm different than Victor, I don't really have a lot, but I tend to keep them. Vic, on the other hand, I have the impression that he's owned probably, (pick a number) 600 guns, or so? Maybe more? I think he's a big trader?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31496 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted April 29, 2017 07:48 PM
I like so many for different reasons. I guess I like them all. A few months back, LongRifles Inc re-barreled and chambered up a 6mmBR that is a repeater. Threaded of course for a suppressor.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted April 30, 2017 08:28 AM
I picked up a brand new Rem 700 Classic at a local gun show and rebarreled it to 220 Swift. I stuck a Jewell trigger in it just for giggles. It's killed maybe a half dozen coyotes.
Doctors tell me my time is limited so I'll be selling my guns rather than burdening my wife with them. I've yet to figure out prices.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 30, 2017 10:08 AM
Don't talk negative, Moe. But I understand your concern. For one thing, the one left behind has little interest. And, you are far more able to get a fair price. If it becomes up to my son in law to dispose of my shit, he'll probably wholesale it out 10% on the dollar. Kinda bothers me, ya know?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31496 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted April 30, 2017 11:12 AM
Sorry to hear that moe, getting old is the shits. My dad is about you and Leonard's age and he has really been struggling with his health too. Had both kidneys removed and has been on dialysis for a few years and has really slowed down and now diabetes is making matters worse. Hell five or six years ago he was in great shape. It's really hard to see it happen and know there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Makes you realize how precious life is. You will be in my thoughts and prayers. Hang in there
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1629 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted April 30, 2017 12:27 PM
After my battle with cancer I stay as busy as the energizer bunny and live everyday like it was my last. All that's left is a little old man but I'm still kickin ass and taken names . Don't ever give up just live all day every day !
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 01, 2017 10:27 AM
That's a damned fine inspirational message, Paul. Good luck to you.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31496 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted May 01, 2017 08:46 PM
Yes, same here.
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted May 02, 2017 09:40 AM
I'm a little bit surprised that more guys don't use .17 calibers. For me, when I started way back when, with my first rifle being a .270, I quickly figured out that it was, well, a wee bit rough on em. Killed em dead alright. SO I downsized to a .243 and sure enough, didn't take long to figure out it killed em dead alright too, but was still rough on em more times than not. So I then downsized to a 22-250 and it wasn't quite as rough on em, and still killed em dead without a problem. Then I downsized to a .204 and found it still killed em dead for the most part, wasn't nearly as rough on the fur, but seemed to kill em dead pretty well. So I then dropped down to a .17/204 and a .17 Rem. and guess it seems like to me that they kill em dead pretty well too, without hardly doing any damage what's so ever to the fur.
Why does it seem like I'm one of the few that just kept downsizing cartridge size? Why does it seem like so many guys need cannon's to kill em? Is it that most guys shoot em way out yonder, beyond my shooting ability? I know I've converted a couple of guys to .17's after they've watched me drop a few while they were with me.
Hell, I figure if my .270 could kill an elk with 150 grain bullet which I did many, a 25 or 30 gr. bullet seems adequate to kill a coyote.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 02, 2017 10:25 AM
Let me address your question, TR.
First, we need to decide the objective. Is it killing, or not?
Also, we should consider the motivation. Is it financial? Is it sport, or is it possibly, Competition?
You already made the point that killing was observationally a little more decisive with a 270.
Some of us might pull a cat, for the renumeration, but as far as coyotes, sometimes, they are hardly worth the trouble.
As one who has always been a contest hunter, I question the finality of the 17MachIV, at distance. Almost beside the point, but especially critical at seventeen caliber is bullet selection. Speaking in generalities, damned near any 6mm bullet is adequate, if all you want to do is kill a coyote; accuracy a given.
Then, there is a strong resistance to change. Seventeens may have been around for 40 years, but I've never owned one. Never say never, but I'm not in the market at this point.
There was a post, somewhere, might have been last week in which the member claimed little, to no destruction from a copper 6mm bullet, so (just maybe) there is no vast need for all of us to sally forth with one of those newfangled subcalibers?
I don't know? If you are an expert marksman and an accomplished hunter, and you are in it from the financial standpoint, I have no problem with a seventeen or a 20? Whatever floats your boat.
But, the recent poll still shows that twenty-two caliber is King, and I expect that to continue for a very long time because, I have found, to my satisfaction, that my 22-250Ackley is extremely fur friendly with the right bullet and extremely deadly at all reasonable distances. In short, I don't need a seventeen, just yet. But, who knows? One day, I might suddenly perceive a need? It is, for sure a neat little novelty cartridge!
Whatever, folks.
Good hunting. E Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31496 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted May 02, 2017 02:16 PM
Leonard, you should at least try to kill one with a .17, even a suppressed .17 if ya get a chance. Who knows, you might like it! The lack of recoil alone would make ya smile, and then hearing the thump of impact, and watching in your scope a crumpling coyote, might just turn your old dog ways unto something new. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 02, 2017 03:53 PM
Back in the early 70's, my partner had one and we both used it at night depending on who was on the light. We only grabbed it on easy chip shots and had no problem, within strict limitations. I probably killed a hundred or so with a Mach 4. I have zero experience beyond about 150 or so but we had no problem with that seventeen with discipline. In our application, I never felt it was a must have tool. So that's kind of the basis for my thinking. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31496 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Brent Parker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4354
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posted May 03, 2017 05:50 AM
I was and am still a seventeen fan, make no mistake I have killed a lot of coyotes with one.
As Leonard mentioned from a fur standpoint I believe it was as good as it gets. Things change applications change and needs change. As mentioned earlier I no longer own a seventeen rifle. Not because I think they are inferior but simply because I simply have no use for one. With my other obligation its just simpler to get it done with one gun. In a lot of peoples eyes a .243 is too big for coyotes and not a fur gun. Since switching to 80 TTSX Barnes bullets I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a cat at 50 yards and know full well that as long as I place my bullet right it will be a simple sewing job.
I think Cal stated best once. On those multiple coyotes when they come in, normally that first shot is the best shot. After that the angles and high percentage shots are going down hill at a rapid rate. I know I no longer worry about angles, bones or distance as I would have with my .17. I used my .17 Remington in a different context with a different purpose. I know if I shoot one now it will have two holes and leaking blood. After that the dogs can sort thing out if need be. 400 yards away and quartering away is not the shot I want with a .17 but I will happily take that shot with my .243. Most likely it will be laying there or within a few yards. I haven't shot the smaller Barnes much in .22 caliber but that will soon change as I bought one of the Tikka T3 .22-250 with an 8 twist barrel just to try for that reason. However the 80 TTSX hammers coyotes without the normal fur damage associate with that caliber. I am about 250 coyotes into the 80 TTSX and I like what I see.
Brent
Posts: 172 | From: 2 miles east of Vic | Registered: Mar 2013
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted May 03, 2017 06:13 AM
I'm in the same camp as Brent. Agree with everything he said except mine setup is a .22-250 Ackley Improved and 60 grain Bergers.
Posts: 1629 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted May 04, 2017 04:13 PM
One cartridge that has fascinated me for years is the 257 Roberts Ackley Improved. My first calling rifle was a Sako Forester in 243 which was the standard in the CVCA when I first joined. I shot Sierra 75 gr Spitzers. I'm not looking for an argument when I say this but when I got my 22-250 in about 1966 I found it anchored critters far better than the 243.
But.......Imagine using a 75 grain bullet running at about 3700 fps.
Years ago I had a friend who had a Winchester pre 64 model 70 in 257 Roberts that he shot a record group for hunting rifles with. He wanted to take it hunting so we did. We took it out on a night hunt and really hit it just right. Accurate as hell and hit hard. It isn't practical here in Oregon because of the stupid laws regarding what calibers you can hunt coyotes with in some areas at certain times or I'd already have one.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted May 04, 2017 05:28 PM
Could be worse, Moe.
When I lived in Wash. (wet side) the Regs read "in the field with .243 or larger during deer season....deer tag required."
No problem.
Calling coyotes during a deer season with a Johnny Stewart 512 & a .223/12 Gauge o/u.
Problem.
Game warden checked me out and informed me that I would be cited if he caught me hunting without a deer tag again.
Drove to Fish & Game Hq. in Olympia, asked to speak to a law enforcement supervisor and explained the situation to him.
His response (and I'll never forget this one) "Well, that's not in the Regs, but you can be cited for it".
That was the last time I ever hunted in Wash.
No regrets.........the folks I met at Fields Ore. turned out to be real nice & the hunting was better, too.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7594 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 04, 2017 10:05 PM
Whenever I get around to it, my little Model 600 has stood by me in 6mm for many years, but it deserves a new barrel. I have thought about a 250Savage Improved and a 257 Roberts but in such a short action, I think the original shoulder might be smarter. Main thing is that I view this rig as a light big game rifle and as such, the wider variety of heavier bullets available in 25 caliber is a strong inducement. What the hell I am waiting for, I don't know?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31496 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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NVWalt
Does not claim to be overly bright!
Member # 375
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posted May 05, 2017 02:59 AM
This has been an interesting read so far.And I like both the 22 and 17 cals for coyotes but will say that ,me being one cheap SOB, that I still use the hornady 25 hps in my 17 Rem.. The thing I have found after umpteen coyotes is that it is a very unforgiving bullet if not placed well.Almost all of the coyotes I do shoot with it are in the 100 and under range and called right to me with a handcall. So with a slop shot it usually, and I mean usually, smacks them hard enough I have time to run another round in them and finish the poor bastard off. But not always. I could use my shotgun on the majority of shots but just like using that little 17 because I can watch it all go down through the scope and I may be sick but do absolutely enjoy watching the show in front of me. When I used my 22's one 223 and am on my 6th 22-250 they all worked well and I have no complaints about them at all.Seems if you could see em you could shoot em with that 22-250 and have a dead coyote slop shots excluded.
And about slop shots, in over 50 years of calling and wacking coyotes you can rack up a lot of slop shots. So much for being an accomplished marksman eh?
Anyways, I do have that 700 classic in 17 rem with the little skinny barrel and light weight and just love the heck out of it.It's easy to carry and just plain fun to shoot and to watch your bullet hit and see the reaction through the scope at the same time is priceless to me anyhow.
I believe that it isn't for new guys to play with because they tend to get buck fever and just shoot at fur instead of placing the shot.But to each his own and it doesn't matter to me anyways what they choose to shoot a coyote with.
Been a good read so far and makes me wonder if I might like to get the newest 22-250 turned into an AI. Food for thought anyways.
You all have fun out there no matter what you shoot them with.....Walt
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Posts: 645 | From: Tellico Plains, TN | Registered: Aug 2004
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Brent Parker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4354
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posted May 05, 2017 12:47 PM
Moe,
No argument here, but my experience has been completely the opposite so far. However I run a fast twist .243 and a slow twist 22-250. Personally I believe a fast twist kills better. I have a 1-8 22-250 coming and will see how that works out. Kelly runs a 22 Creedmoore and said its a killing sob. Have no reason to doubt him. He went from a .243AI to the .22 Creedmoore. 75 Bergers at 3500 is my understanding.
Posts: 172 | From: 2 miles east of Vic | Registered: Mar 2013
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 05, 2017 04:21 PM
It's just bewildering the combinations you can put together. One of my 22-250Ackley's has a 14 twist and what with the bullet weight and barrel length, it turned out a very satisfactory coyote killer and a more dependable fur gun than some others chambered with a reputation for being good on fur. A 17 Remington can blow the hell out of a coyote without that surgical precision bullet placement.
Some people think this stuff just sorts itself out, and sometimes you wind up very disappointed if you spec. it out with a fast twist and high velocity and wind up with excessive RPM, perhaps winding up with a miniature hand grenade bullet. There are many ways of shooting yourself in the foot.
I'm just saying, you can dream up a winner, a real flamethrower, and once in a while, you get what you ask for, but it might not work as expected. You can take a high capacity case and blow out the shoulder and specify (maybe a 7 twist) then load light bullets for high velocity.
It's kinda why they take a 300Weatherby and neck it to 7mm and shorten the case to keep you from owning a rifle with a 200 round life. I have heard, actually knew a man that owned a 6-284 and by the time he had worked up a load, in his quest for high velocity, the barrel's accuracy was a thing of the past. With some cartridges, you better have your load pretty much nailed down from previous experience or from another shooter before you start experimenting with bullets, powders and primers.
I don't know if we actually NEED 400 different cartridges with obscure applications? For some people, having something different is all the justification needed. Then there is the latest super short Magnum cases. You know, the trend towards short fat cartridges? Some really are cool, like the new Noslers. And the trend away from belts on magnum cartridges; why did we need belts in the first place? Take a semi rimmed case and headspace it on the shoulder. Hello, 220Swift. Rebate the rim, that trend is coming back. You have dies that cost $30 and others that are $150, well because they are "exotic".
Excuse the ramble, carry on.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31496 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted May 08, 2017 03:57 AM
That .22Creed is kinda splitting the difference in capacity between the .22-250AI and the .22-243Win.
Bonus is that the .22Creed & .22-243Win are a simple, one pass neck down operation from their parent case. No need to fireform, like the .22-250AI or .22-243AI. And with fire breathing hotrods, that does save barrel life...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted May 08, 2017 05:08 AM
The fire forming deal is a non issue for me. I Load max or alittle over standard 22-250 load and go out and kill Coyotes. It's very close to the accuracy of my Ackley loads and I can't tell any difference in how they kill Coyotes. After that load and shoot in Ackley. Did that with 200 rounds and that should be it for this barrel.......
Posts: 1629 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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