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Author
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Topic: Perceptions
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted December 08, 2023 03:51 PM
I recently bought a new product called 'Pooph' or something like that at Wally World. Supposed to be the end all of killing bad odors from pets up to sewage treatment plants.
Thought that I'd try it on coyote stands and pile up those downwind coyotes.
Went out one day last week, the full moon notwithstanding for a day of calling. Wasn't expecting too much as calling in this area has been poor at best lately. Long term drought, rabbit hemoragitic fever (sp?) and calling pressure have had an effect.
Got a late-ish start and forgot the Pooph stuff.
Long story less long, had a great day, called in a bunch of coyotes, got three shots with the recurve and one fatal hit too far back that sadly I could not recover.
The point is that had I been using the Pooph scent control spray I would be assuming incorrectly that it was the greatest thing since Asian Massage Parlors....... and it may or may not be.
Just sayn' believing in a product probably shouldn't be based on limited success.
That's all I got for now.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted December 08, 2023 05:25 PM
Sorry to here you forgot to bring along your pooh. Not going to fool coyotes nose or eyes at times, but you can do things to buy you sometime or get another 100 yards advance out of a coyote. Not sure on the pooh though so think I would of passed on that. I look for things that will improve my success but none of them are in a liquid or paste form. Accurate and flat shooting cartridge with good bullet comes to mind to give me a little more edge and little longer shot if needed. A E-caller that has good library and sounds along with volume to reach out there and convince a coyote to come in and then be able to convince it to come even closer. Something that's simple to operate and just keeps working all day or night long.
I don't care much about snake oil or the salesmen they can all just crawl in a hole and die.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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NVWalt
Does not claim to be overly bright!
Member # 375
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posted December 09, 2023 04:55 AM
The wifeynice saw the ads for that pooph stuff on the idiotscope and went and got a bottle of it at ChinaMart to use on a wore out pair of slippers I had. You know the ones that start smelling like stinky feet. Anyways she saturated them with that crap and it really didn't do anything for the smell. Maybe if you smell like a turd it might work but for plain ole human stink I wouldn't waste my 20 bucks on it.
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Support Communism and help destroy the United States of America ! VOTE DEMOCRAT. "In the end, they aren't coming after me. They are coming after you!" D.Trump
Posts: 636 | From: Tellico Plains, TN | Registered: Aug 2004
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted December 09, 2023 05:18 AM
Yeah, fortunately I get a discount at Wally World.
My thought when I bought it was our shifting winds. It will blow one way and then shift, taking your entire scent cone with it and then shift again until the scent stream is undulating like a sidewinder. This is where I thought it might be of some benefit.
I'm still going to give it a fair try. If it helps, yea!! ..... If not, one less thing to carry.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Semp
GOLD STAR MEMBER
Member # 3074
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posted December 09, 2023 08:42 AM
Be sure to wear your ScentLok cammies too. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Always remember: That court appointed psychiatrist is not your friend.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 09, 2023 11:10 AM
I have been very charitable ko ko, reading about your adventures Could you do me a small favor and quit referring to a scent cone. I can promise you, scent does not spread out in a cone shape as it flows downwind. It is in the shape of a ribbon, does not spread out sideways hardly at all. FICO
Good hunting. El Bee ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted December 09, 2023 12:01 PM
depends on wind and humidity. Watch steam come out of a stack at a ethanol plant. Sometimes it goes straight up and other times to one side with wind carrying it or it goes close to the ground and lays out like a blanket.
For blustering day Koko just take a bottle of coyote urine and squirt it all around your stand, not going to fool a coyotes nose but you give it something to take interest in. Just like calling you throw out a friendly howl to let others know there is a coyote present.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 09, 2023 02:27 PM
So, you think some scent flows straight downwind, BUT some scent flows sideways due to wind and humidity? It follows the wind, if wind is swirling it follows the wind, it does not gradually expand sideways into a CONE shape. No, does a river flow sideways? It doesn't it follows gravity. Scent moves by the wind and my best explanation is a ribbon, just like a stream or a river flows in a direction. Unless the concept is too difficult, just think of it as a river pushed by the wind. It does not get wider as it flows, it is actually a relatively narrow river of scent flowing downwind. It does not get wider, like a cone.
I guess you have to trust me on this, NO CONE! Ribbon!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted December 09, 2023 03:59 PM
depends on how its coming off the body. If whole body stinks then the river will overflow and get wider, but yes similar to a ribbon also or large carpet. and then it will follow contour of the land where less resistance for the wind current or ribbon.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 09, 2023 09:09 PM
Gentlemen, I have spent decades hunting at night using scent. Especially when it's cold and you spray your urine or skunk or rabbit, I have watched it drift downwind thousands of times. It's a bit amazing how you can watch the scent drift with the breeze. My best illustration, based on observation is that the scent holds together remarkably well. I fucking guarantee you that it does not disperse or radiate outwards, it holds together as it drifts with the breeze. I know you folks have been told that there is a scent CONE, from a spray bottle or some people squirt it on a cotton ball, or whatever your method of dispensing scent, it doesn't spread out. I've seen how it works because I have used a lot of scent maybe a couple pints in a whole night. The red light illuminates the mist as it drifts.
I've seen it hold together in like a cylinder, and 200 yards down wind, it might still be something like 3 feet in diameter to whole way. It's not one foot wide, twenty feet from the source and then a foot and a half twenty feet further. It pretty much stays together like water coming out of a water hose. And I don't mean like when you can make a wide spray, I mean the scent stays pretty well concentrated for more or less a couple hundred yards. What happens after that, you can't keep an eye on it that far, but it definitely doesn't spread out like ten feet wide a hundred yards from the spray bottle, just doesn't happen, folks!
Good hunting. El Bee
PS you know, I have tried to explain how scent works for at least 30 years and it is like falling on deaf ears every time I attempt to explain it. I admit, it's a difficult concept to envision. That's how ingrained this "SCEMT CONE" stuff has become so indoctrinated. You know, it's common sense! lol
edit: but you are right, it does follow contours like highs and lows and around rocks and if it runs smack dab into a big bush, it gets completely disbursed on the other side. It's still a ribbon but then it's a ten foot ribbon, not a cone!
Yes, I know I'm wasting my breath!
[ December 09, 2023, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted December 10, 2023 09:47 AM
Ok .......... Your reasoning makes sense. I can go along with the ribbon concept.
So .... If you're calling cross wind with the breeze coming into your left ear the downwind ribbon would be off to your right. Now, if the breeze shifted to hitting you in the back of your neck, would the ribbon not be like an arm sweeping across the table ??? Then when the breeze went back to hitting your left ear, wouldn't scent remain toward your front ???
This admittedly poor explanation is what I mean when I refer to a scent cone. It's caused mainly by our shifting desert winds.
I don't have a lot of hope for any 'cover scent' but hey, anything's worth a try.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted December 10, 2023 11:53 AM
Koko Leonard used scent for misting or whatever it's called and for what ever reason. I've done same but used it at a trap set, wasn't meant to hide whatever scent I left behind but to switch coyotes thinking over to something else like another coyote if I used coyote piss or fox piss. Urine also sticks around longer than human scent left behind, human scent usually left in a day vrs. coyote urine be around all week. It relaxes the coyote knowing another has been there and causes it to work your set. Add other types of urine it just works set harder and keeps it interested and using less caution. If I hunted in your area, I'd just squirt the stuff around your set up, better than nothing.
I don't have a photo hosting site any longer but I could heat up a bottle of coyote urine and spray it in air then look at it through my thermal as it will pick it up then we would know how it disperses.
Edit to add. A male dog pisses on a tree and the next male dog to come along is going to find it and piss on top of it. Both dogs can keep doing this forever. It creates a terr. response and dam sure it does on a coyote as well. Buys you time for that one shot.
[ December 10, 2023, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted December 10, 2023 04:27 PM
Yeah, somewhere I have Higgen's formula for his Magic Mist. I don't think that it was ever claimed to be a cover scent. More of a confuse their tiny little minds for a few seconds. I got away from using it 'cause I was hunting really thick stuff with a shotgun. Thick as in 'see the coyote - shoot the coyote'. Just wasn't seeing any benefit to getting backdrafted with coyote piss.
Tim; You'd probably be amazed at stuff I've trapped coyotes with. Anything in the fishing aisle at Wally World up to and including PowerBait. I once set a dirt hole with cigarette butts. Didn't connect with that but the urine post 20 feet away got him. Chewing gum in a dirt hole is another one. Low $$ fur markets and what have you got to lose trying off the wall stuff ??
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 11, 2023 10:23 AM
Something you learn right away, make sure your spray does not come back and hit you in the face! Only use it when the breeze is headed away from your face! This means also, avoid using mist when the wind is swirling, you need a stable wind direction. (I didn't think I needed to explain that, but better safe than sorry)
Don't expect every animal you see will be down wind, but a very high percentage will circle in that direction, and that's a "Tell" as they say. if you can't keep an eye on him, just figure that he will work his way down wind, from whatever direction you first spot him, he's going downwind.
Here's a clue, daytime misting is of very little value. I don't really care what formula Higgin's uses, maybe he can hold the animal for photos but it's a lot easier to just shoot him. Use mist at night and it's a decided advantage. At the very least, you know where he is headed. And when he gets there, he just might hesitate long enough for a shot, but you better be quick about it, because he also gets all of your scent and that will make up his mind pretty darn quick!
I cannot think of a method that is so misunderstood, as misting. And, it pretty much only works at night. And that leaves out 90% of the coyote hunters.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted December 11, 2023 01:40 PM
Here its 90% night hunters as thermal taken over the game. As for making Mist I have a buddy that been making trapping scents and lures since late 70's. I would just need to tell him I need it in a liquid form and non-freezing, so it works in spray bottle. As for what to use or add he would know what it would take and then some and may be better than Higgins formula. I see a use for it here just not sure I want to drag more stuff out to a stand.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 11, 2023 07:33 PM
Okay look. Your scent doesn't need to be exotic! I use rabbit urine or add a little coyote urine to it is a good idea but not mandatory.
Yes, it will freeze if you don't keep it protected. Personally, I have never had a problem with freezing and we sure as hell hunt when it's cold. It's as simple as keeping it in your pocket. But cold makes the coyote more motivated, to hell with circling downwind....sometimes.
Good hunting. El Bee
Tim, you say that everybody in Minnesota has thermal? Kinda hard to justify the cost when pelts aren't selling for much? I see Tridjicons going for 10grand?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted December 12, 2023 12:01 AM
You see Leonard some don't understand misting and others don't understand Minnesota coyotes just way it is. Our coyotes are pretty much chicken shit at times with terr. over lapping if there is such a thing, they can get aggressive if in a small group of say 3-5 which makes things interesting. Many of our coyotes won't venture out in the open during the day and I have even found them holed up in pipes, farmers grove and big brush piles. They may hear a caller from those places they may not, and they may not even take interest. Just the way it is here.
Now nighttime rolls around the coyotes are out hunting and show little less fear at times which makes them callable.
We don't always have snow and full moon so that's out most nights. We can use a light but it's just not as effective as thermal.
One year I made about 200 stands and finally called one into range and killed it, most guys would of given up before. (daytime)
At night I can go out and find anywhere from a couple up to 7-8 in a night just depends on wind and how long I stay out.
Now days the guys doing all the killing are useing thermal or just not getting shit. The guys way up north have bigger sections and more cover and the coyote numbers are higher up there like 6:1 and some of the guys go out just on weekend and kill around 10 or so which is pretty dam good for here. It also takes a good caller and great sounds to produce coyotes with top 3 callers being used, F-P, Lucky Duck and WT. What's keeping fox pro in the game is able to download better sounds into it as most are crap for my area that's why I see a F-P in store I just walk right on buy.
For night calling faster and flatter shooting cartridges are need but we have a large group that uses dam AR in 223 but you look at their vid.s they are mostly mag dumping to get their coyotes, no style to it. LOL
Many of the coyotes in my area are taking to downwind right away if more than one is coming in but when they reach the downwind, they have actually moved in closer just a tad out of range for now, need an extra edge to try get them just another 100 yards closer and something to spark their interest like the smell of another coyote if the mist will drift that far and maybe draw them in a little or just stand still for a longer shot.
I had 3 coyotes one night they were on their way out about half mile away so I tried to get aggressive with them and it worked. They stayed out of range and back tracked right to my down wind and just laid down at roughly 400 yards in plowed field. Just thinking perhaps if they smelled another coyote or even fox here it may have got them closer so now, I need to find out. LOL
I found a gunsmith close by so I may get my old 22-250 ackly rebuilt hopefully before winter is over then I back in the game for little longer shots. LOL I also picked up another thermal a different brand I want to try and have it on hand if I have a partner along more on that later.
Give you idea of what its like here go stand at one end of a football field and coyote at the other end, start calling and see if it comes in, that's how open ground it is here and a coyote at night can see roughly half mile. I thermal can also be used as a spotter and you can find coyotes out feeding from a distance and then plan where you want to make a stand and get in without being spotted. All part of the game here, its not S.D or AZ. dorthy.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted December 12, 2023 12:11 AM
To add good thermal can be had for about 2300.00 to 3,000.00 most applications you don't need to go high dollar but don't buy cheap either. You need a resolution of 384 or higher. The 384 is mid. priced.
A few guys I know are also going suppressed, and I found out I can go to a Scheels gun store, and they will help with the app. and getting a thermal and prices have come down. The state of Minnesota is also trying to get the wait period reduced so it be just like buying a pistol or AR with few days wait.
Edit to add a big cat was sited about 13 miles from my hometown last night. And we have a few that been here for couple years now by Mankato staying along the river.
[ December 12, 2023, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted December 12, 2023 06:47 AM
Three grand-ish for a gizmo to take a coyote that 'may' get you $30 AFTER you skin it, and wash it and sew it and flesh it and turn it and THEN get it to a fur buyer ?????
Uh ........ That's a hard NO there Red Ryder.
I got a shot yesterday at a coyote I called in with an old FoxPro 416 using a classic recurve that I bought used on eBay. 30 yard running straight away shot that went low. I consider a shot with a bow to be a 'win' plus I learned something about leading the straight away shot.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 12, 2023 10:48 AM
Christ-much to unpack. You know, the first thing that trips my trigger is hunting coyotes with a fucking suppresser....and in 223! What a bunch of Maroons!
Look, when I lived in Minnesota, there weren't any coyotes. I was thrilled, when pheasant hunting one time to see a red fox running away and that was an exotic animal! What kind of critters DO they have, maybe 'coons, sure as hell no wolves or lions. It's just my opinion, but I believe it was pressure from California, Texas and a few Arizona predator hunters that chased them east! They could survive on voles and ground squirrels instead of jackrabbits, but they ain't fussy, and that's an understatement!
Well, I guess I don't have "too" much room to talk, since I actually hunted for 4-5 years with my deer rifle, a '98 Parker Hale Mauser chambered in 270 with handloaded 90 grain Sierra's. In those days, I thought taking care and loading prep would turn that rifle into a tackdriver, and it was, for a pencil barreled deer rifle. But, it wasn't a 400 yard coyote rifle, and then again, what is? Yes, it was my 25'06Ackley finally, but before that, I killed a hell of a lot of coyotes with my Ruger 77 in 220 Swift, Speer 52 gr. Gold Cup. That rifle is still around, but when I break it out, I'm using the 63 grain semi-pointed now that it's best accuracy is in the past. I also learned many years ago that chasing accuracy with factory rifles was for the birds and at that point started investing in premium match barrels. Those were the days!
Now, in some ways, you must appreciate a weird bird dinking around with a recurve while calling coyotes! That, my friends is dedication! Retro or, something? Well, everybody has a theory that won't work. Right, Tim? Let's just say, it's good to have some other means that allows such foolishness.
Here's another word of wisdom from an old crank. That suppresser fad is exactly like buying a Tesla. It's when you want to impress the cool dudes that you will never be. My hearing has been shot since before I was old enough to buy a drink! So now I need to spend $1200 plus an extremely resentful $200 to the Feds, 8 fucking months later? I have not caved yet. Makes me look a bit silly walking around without a "can" like all the cool dudes with the big bucks!
Oh, and don't forget to create a Trust so your heirs won't know what to do with it after the Liberals have destroyed all firearms and protected every critter bigger than a friggin' mouse! Hunt? Oh yeah, that's something that those cavemen used to do, with spears and then rocks were used, for sporting purposes.
Why rebuild a 22-250, Tim? Do you mean that the accuracy has been shot out? That can happen, but most of it is shooting paper.
Okay, sorry for the Rave. I don't remember what set me off?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted December 12, 2023 02:34 PM
Using a suppressor makes shooting a rifle fun again.
For me, it had nothing to do with killing more coyotes or looking cool. After I shot one for the first time and noticed a reduction of recoil and no muzzle blast pounding the sides of my head, I was sold.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted December 12, 2023 05:41 PM
Leonard I had the 22-250 ackley as long as I been on this board. Just dropped it off at a gunsmith and he ran bore scope through it, yep it was toast. Lots of miles on that rifle. My 17 Pred. same way and it's expected from a cartridge that pushes a bullet to max.
I have a 22-250 in rem. 788 it was my first centerfire, and I shot the rifling out of that rifle on just fox and have had it barreled years back.
You back off on your loads for your reason and can see why you may get more miles, but at same time you not getting the performance out of that cartridge so could just as well shoot a 223. All my loads are safe but I load to get all I can, that's the extra edge.
Most days I hunt alone so if I got a suppressor I would'nt be impressing anyone but myself. LOL
[ December 12, 2023, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted December 12, 2023 05:55 PM
I still have my Onida screaming eagle bow Koko. It was just another tool to allow me to hunt deer seasons longer for meat. Im not looking for any challenges other than nice one shot kills if possible. I can still get around good so I hunt coyotes anyway I can with rifle or just the dogs, its all fun.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted December 12, 2023 06:51 PM
Onida Eagle ............. There's blast from the past !!!! My wife & I each bought one at a Doug Walker Outdoor Show long ago. Her's was fine ..... mine, I could never get tuned & sold it. I was into wheel bows then. Bought my first 3 or 4 compounds off of Tom Jennings himself. Neat guy.
And yeah, I'm totally into archery, Traditional Class / Recurve. Since I got nothing to prove to anybody, if I get an animal; Great. If I don't score; that's ok too. I shoot daily on my range on my property. Everything from the 'snake shot' at one yard to the clout shot at 125 yards. Bales, 3Ds and a sand pit for broadheads. Target seven is my tribute to the Killer Rabbit from Quest For The Holy Grail. Speaking of movies, I made The Patriot Arrow for Robin Hood Men In Tights. I'm constantly learning new nuances in form & style. I'm not the best, but when the best get together they let me sit with them.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted December 12, 2023 08:50 PM
My Onida is collecting dust but there is a big market here for them for bow fishing from boats with lights at night.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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