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Author
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Topic: Fun weekend...
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knockemdown
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posted October 31, 2016 03:45 AM
Got my first bow-kill coyote over the weekend!
Was purely target of opportunity, as I was deer hunting, but I'll take it! Actually moved a stand down in near our 'sanctuary area', in hopes of getting an arrow in a nice buck we got on a trail cam. Per usual, the first sit in a new stand tends to be a good one!
Coyote sure looked like a big bastid when it was trotting up outta da swamp. Watched the arrow sail true thru the beech saplings & zip on out the other side. Knew I smoked it, but went back & grabbed the dog anyway...just for the fun/training aspect. Turns out, it only made it ~80yds...
Such a thrill to see a coyote acting a coyote! They are just too friggin' cool to witness!!! Crazy thing is, I almost stutter stepped & didn't shoot, cuz I wanted to call him in & whack him fair & square. Unfortunately for him, that notion didn't last but a second before the arrow left the rest... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
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posted October 31, 2016 05:19 AM
Outstanding !!!!!
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
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posted October 31, 2016 06:34 AM
Very cool!
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Leonard
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posted October 31, 2016 11:53 AM
Yes, cool. But, do not clutter your mind with thoughts of "fairness" or ethics, or other rules of fair chase when it concerns coyotes. Any way you can stick a bullet or even an arrow into one or more is legal and ethical. You actually don't get style points, although I know a guy that spent years and needless screwups while attempting to kill two coyotes with one boolet. Must have been a personal thing?
I will admit to flinging lead at crossers, without having "called" them, although there are rules in contests that state the coyote be "called". The old joke is: Lipsqueak/Lipsqueak/Bang! Of course, he was called; or everything is fair in Love and War and Coyote Contests. Well, you know what I mean?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted November 01, 2016 03:32 AM
Gotcha.
Just sayin', I'd rather have experienced the thrill of making a good stand & calling it in.
Pass shooting one with the bow was pretty cool, no doubt! But, calling a coyote here, at home, offers a satisfaction that's really hard to equal! That big fucker woulda been a treat to trick...
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
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posted November 01, 2016 04:27 AM
Fred, I've shot a couple TOO's with my bow. But the first one I called in and killed with my bow, sitting on the ground with a hand call to boot, way, WAY more cooler than the one's I just injunned up on by happenstance.
I rarely shoot crossers anymore. Still happens once in awhile. Hard to say why it does when it does. But 90% of the time, I don't even consider it. Just no satisfaction in it for me I guess. About like shooting a prairie dog.
Still, every so often, I see one from the Jeep and do hop out and kill it?
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Leonard
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posted November 01, 2016 05:43 AM
Well, sorta "technically" we "call back" crossers, which is a minor art, all by itself. You know, either throw on the brakes, or drive past, there are decisions to be made if you want that dog.
Good hunting. El Bee
[ November 01, 2016, 05:44 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted November 01, 2016 10:29 AM
I don't shoot drive byes either, nor does anyone, while riding in my truck. Always love it when they get excited, yelling there's one!, to which I calmly tell them, we will call him another day, another time.
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Leonard
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posted November 01, 2016 11:23 AM
But, you aren't particularly well suited to contest hunting. People that enter usually want to win and any coyote sighted is fair game. It's okay if you have some type of ethical reasons for not shooting a crosser, but you would be in a minority, which you could care less but statistically, umm? what were we talking about anyway?
Anyway....if there be some sort of artform in killing a coyote, let's say it should be done with a needlegun, for instance? But then there are those that think bodycount is part of the mystic? <shrug>
And, anyway, some people wouldn't shoot a mulie under 30 inches. Whatever you yardstick, call them in close or take, (and be proud of) a 600 yard shot. We all have standards.
For instance, yes you wouldn't pull over and allow me to shoot a crosser even if I were driving my truck: is sort of a bully tactic imposing your rules on me, and who's right? Myself, I hate to see a coyote get away, but it has happened.
No, I'm not that hardcore anymore. But there are times when I can resist everything but temptation. And, the crazy part is, I admire and like coyotes as a worthy adversary.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted November 01, 2016 01:39 PM
Really nothing to do with ethics, standards or yardsticks, it just doesn't trip my trigger. I could care less if anyone else wants to shoot drive byes, have at it. Hell; the coyotes dead, whether you shoot it as a drive by, or I kill it when calling....same end?
No judgment on my part, just a personal preference for how and when I kill it. I always liked Kellys sig line concerning coyote hunting,
" It ain't chess, it's checkers"
No art form, no science, no voodoo, it's fairly straight forward and simple, but hunters find ways to make it difficult.
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Eddie
Knows what it's all about
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posted November 01, 2016 03:36 PM
I have shot several while deer hunting just because the land owners want them dead.
Got a double last year with my black powder. They came by my deer stand shot the first one the second one took off. Reloaded my gun, grab my grunt call ran the oring out to the end of the reed and went to crying like a hurt pup. Well the second one came back, shot it . Old TC 54 cal. not to fur friendly.
Fred you ought to try calling coons and shooting them with your bow! Things happen pretty fast and it can get a little wild.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 01, 2016 03:42 PM
Plugging a crosser is about as basic as it gets? I must be a farm boy, reincarnate?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Eddie
Knows what it's all about
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posted November 01, 2016 03:57 PM
LB......you might be more Okie than you think!
Hey it don't get any better!
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Leonard
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Member # 2
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posted November 01, 2016 05:02 PM
THAT'S THE NICEST THING ANYBODY HAS SAID TO ME, ALL DAY!
Of course, I haven't left the house, exept to walk to the mailbox. But still.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted November 02, 2016 04:34 AM
Leonard, one "calling" contest we hunted last year had a rule specifically modified to exclude 'road dogs'.
It read something to the effect that, "the animal must physically commit & approach the caller" So, the ol' "woof and shoot" off the truck hood don't pass muster. A coyote loping away from the truck don't count as a "called coyote", under that specific rule...
I thought that was a fair rule? I know the dude who ran the lie detector asked me if all the animals we killed "approached the call" before being shot. Actually, he asked the same question four different ways...
Have hunted another contest where it WAS legit to jump out & shoot a coyote. BUT, you had to clear the vehicle & the roadway, first. IE, get out, get off the road, and shoot without the aid of the vehicle as a rest/support...
Still, I'd rather let a road dog walk & try to make the right setup to call it in, later on. Whether that's 20 minutes later, or a another day...
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Leonard
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posted November 02, 2016 06:05 AM
I don't know what the motivation is or what the contest organizers are trying to prove by such rules? People will always have an edge and you can't design rules to make sure that everyone is engaging with the same high standards.
Believe me, we have been there and done that many years ago. You can't force people to conform, they will find a way. As an example: we started flying to our hunting areas from the check in locations. So, certain people had a problem with that and the following year, rules were designed to make sure only one motor vehicle was used during the hours of the hunt.
This produced non "motorized" vehicles such as (I kid you not) skateboards and bicycles. Really, you can't outthink them. There was a rule that they must be called and one team member actually didn't know that his partner was making stands where he had set traps and his partner had a long string of lucky stands. These guys got their come upance a little later, things like arrested by tribal authorities and actually evacuated by helicopter with a gunshot wound, but when they get this elaborate in cheating, on contests that doesn't involve money, it's really hard to prevent someone with an advantage from exercising it. I heard of treble hooks imbedded in chunks of beaver and wired to a fencepost. Then there is the old standby, sandbagging coyotes the night before. Then, they take temperatures at check in and you can't make allowances for hunting at 10,000 feet and the next guy who is hunting a warmer area and the body temperature doesn't jive? Whatever the solution, you are always one step behind.
I ran our contests for almost eleven years straight and I have seen many different attempts. One of the first things we did was eliminate cash rewards as an incentive. Then, a short time later, no merchandise, like guns, etc. When all was said and done, winners, for many years were awarded a belt buckle or a cup or trophy and all that winner receives is glory. Sometimes, that's incentive enough to cheat, but believe me, you won't stop it because humans are very creative. Just look at the Olympics for drug enhancements and the product endorsements that follow.
I've grown weary trying to prevent cheating. As long as there is any award, somebody will try to have an edge. But designing rules based on principle or ethics, such as calling a coyote to a hunter, that is much too vague in interpretation. The most difficult to prevent is hunting areas. There is little doubt that hunting behind closed gates is a huge advantage, but how can you know and how can it be prevented?
One of our Huntmaster's members was busted for splitting the team, one year. A rule is a rule, but for me personally, I fail to see a valid reason for such a rule? If two guys can work a stand individually, I can't see that a rule that they must sit within a few yards of each other is legit?
All this to make sure the coyote is actually "called"? We used to have a rule, only hand calls, no electronics, at all. That was a very difficult rule to enforce. Maybe the participants should be restricted to Verified Saints so that there is no question that there was any cheating involved?
It starts getting ridiculous when a coyote must be heading on a string to the source of the sound....when I have PERSONALLY seen thousands of coyotes circle at hundreds of yards to engage the wind in their favor. Who the hell can say what a coyote is doing when responding to a call?
Lie detectors either don't work or they are unreliable. Another tool relegated to the trash heap. I think the term itself is a mistake.
It should be a coyote "hunting" contest, not a coyote "calling" contest. Somehow, you have to rule out dogs, but it can be done.
Sorry for the ramble
Good hunting. El bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted November 07, 2016 07:07 AM
Put 50rds mildly loaded rounds thru the new 6x47Lapua. SWEET shooting little cartridge! Didn't have the brake on, and didn't need it. Fucker was drillin' 105Hybrids to 630yds like it was nuthin'. Was watching my own bullet trace thru the scope, very cool!
Reckon got a couple grains to step up & should break 3K with too much fuss...
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 07, 2016 10:14 AM
What velocity are you getting from those 105 Hybrids? That's the bullet I use in my 243Ackley, if you mean the Berger?
Good hunting. El Bee
PS keep that grass mowed!
edit: PS I just noticed in a catalogue, I can buy a fake suppressor for about 40 bucks. That way I'm not embarrassed to be actually in the field with a naked barrel. What do you think?
[ November 07, 2016, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted November 07, 2016 11:20 AM
Yes Leonard, the Berger Hybrid 105gr.
Swagged 2900fps MV in my ballistic app, it was close enough to work. Stayed pretty centered on my steel plates, out to 630yds.
Really just wanted to get some rounds thru it, and get the necked down brass fired 1x. I'll confirm finished load via chrono, should settle into the 3025-3075 range. That's pretty good, considering a 23" barrel...
Bet your AI is pushing' 3250-ish, at least?
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
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posted November 07, 2016 04:31 PM
very nice Fred
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
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posted November 07, 2016 05:00 PM
He'll yeah!
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 08, 2016 08:15 AM
I have been thinking about it. And, I don't believe I have ever run that 243Ackley through the screens? Might get around to it? I'm curious now, that is a 30" straight, no taper Shilen barrel. I have lost a little interest because it's not the one holer I expected. One day soon, no doubt, I will look into it.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted November 23, 2016 05:31 AM
Well, was wanting to kill a deer with that 6x45AI, and got a chance to...
Had been shooting 87Vmaxs with it, but wanted to load a bullet more tailored to taking big game, so grabbed a box of 80TTSXs. Low & behold, those Barnes boolits shoot friggin' excellent, jumped .030" with a stout load of H335 behind them! Getting 2915fps from the 22" barrel, and that sucker drilled two holes right thru a nice fat doe...
Exit wound, and the offending contrivance:
Was actually a pretty fun hunt. Had a band of lake effect now settle in over our AO, resulting in ~18" on the ground & 30-40mph winds to blow it around. My buddies were givin' me shit about not killing anything, so I caved to the peer pressure & humped it down into the swamp, in hopes up buffering the gale & maybe seeing a critter...
Was hoping to take a nice buck, but that doe gave me too swell a chance to pass up. 60yds, broadside...done deal! And given the weather, was happy to even see a deer.
Mission 6x45AI accomplished! Quite confident in that little purple pea shooter now, makes for a dandy little deer rifle...
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted November 23, 2016 08:12 AM
18 inches of snow & 30 to 40 mph wind ??????
Yeah, I can see that up on the Mountain from down here in the desert.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted November 24, 2016 07:51 AM
Happy to see the plan working out Fred!
Count me as one of the wusses that would not have been out deer hunting in that kind of weather though!
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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