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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 22, 2016, 04:57 AM:
 
Was finally able to get away for a weekend up to the farm! Excited to get some shooting and a bit of calling in before our coyote season closes next weekend...

Took a chance on a new riflescope recently, and was excited to shake it out on my 6x45AI. The Athlon Midas 4.5-27x50 is a 'mid-level- scope with some nice features: 6x zoom range, HD glass illuminated mil-based reticle, 30mm tube. All the extraneous, non essential goodies a scope whore looks for!

Anyhoo, the glass was impressive for the $$$, the turrets tracked true, so I gave it a seal of approval. Next thing to do was see how it'd do on stand...

Hiked up into one of my 'honey holes' to hit it from a new angle, the wind finally allowed this approach I'd been wanting to try. The deer were out & about, turkeys cluckin' & purring...there HAD to be a coyote within earshot!!! Got settled in an hour before Sunset for the long sit until darkness settled in. I know that sounds crazy to most of you guys, but this is what I've learned it takes back here to call/kill coyotes in the daytime with any regularity...

Considering that, I tote gear appropriate to staying comfy & still for an extended time period. Paramount is a good chair! Been using a turkey lounger type chair. Its kinda big, but the comfort it allows for is worth the heft.

Also, been adapting a carbon fiber tripod and gun cradle for use on night stands these last few seasons. This tripod/cradle setup keeps my hands free on stand to run the light and a call. This last year or so, started taking it during daylight stands as well...

Been experimenting with, and swapping around, different types of tripod heads. Fluid heads are super for night calling, allowing for a smooth pan with a light attached to the head. But they leave something to be desired when having to maneuver to get on an approaching coyote. For that, found a ball head allows much better leveling capability. IE, the floating head allows to quickly level the rifle without having to re-adjust the tripod legs. A fluid video head simply can't do that on its own...

Was using a Manfrotto 055 ball head, but that bitch was too heavy. Have since found a Sirui K-20x ball head. It's half the weight, yet can still handle the weight of my rifles & clamp down tight enough to hold solid. The smaller ball head still 'floats' smoothly, allowing for fast & steady target engagement...

Pic of my gun cradle setup on stand, holding my 6x45AI and new Athlon scope on top. Notice the tripod legs are not 'even' on the soft/broken ground, yet the ball head allows the rifle to be 'level' and locked into position:
 -

Its great to sit back with hands free to run a hand call, or e-caller remote without holding onto a set of stix & 10 lb. rifle for over an hour!

Fun part is, carrying all that shit paid off! Right on que, after the Sun sunk below the hills, here comes a coyote slowly trotting in to see about an intruder. Decided to end things @ 90yds and thumped an 87Vmax into it.
Stayed put until dark thirty, messing with the remote, but didn't see another taker. That's not to say there wasn't another one there, though! Hustled up to see my prize before it got pitch dark...
 -

41 lb. female, one of the bigger girls I've killed...but surprisingly dry & barren? I'da thought a mature female would be bred by now? No matter, glad the alpha breeder female might still out there making more coyotes for me to kill next fall. Its been a mild winter with little snow, so the hound guys haven't been running much, either. Happy for that, leaves more coyotes for me to try to fool on my own terms...

Happy hunting!
 
Posted by booger (Member # 3602) on March 22, 2016, 06:00 AM:
 
Great story, Fred! Love the stock on that gun!!!
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 22, 2016, 07:36 AM:
 
Schweet!!

- DAA
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 22, 2016, 09:39 AM:
 
Yeah, agree, Good story. Damn, takes more dedication than I have.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS how much, the scope?
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 22, 2016, 11:26 AM:
 
Thank you, gents!

Leonard, that scope was $599. Was considering a Nightforce for twice the price, but decided to give this one a whirl. So far, so good, but we'll see if it stands the test of time...
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 22, 2016, 11:46 AM:
 
You know, durability is important, as is customer service. Aside from a purely optical evaluation.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 22, 2016, 03:07 PM:
 
Hey Fred, just noticed the ball head. Sure you wouldn't be using it if you didn't like it.

Somebody asked about using one, on another board. I replied, that I had no experience using a rifle on a ball head, but lots of experience using one with a camera. And, that I thought (based on my no experience...), that I thought it would massively suck ass for shooting on a coyote stand.

Looks like, mebbe I should have kept my inexperienced thoughts to myself...

- DAA
 
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on March 22, 2016, 07:40 PM:
 
I'm trying a similar rig right now. The ball head and carbon fiber tripod. I've shot a couple with it but the verdict is still out. I think I like it.
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 22, 2016, 08:58 PM:
 
Seems like there is something going on, like filming or working a light, at night by yourself? Otherwise, I don't really see an advantage? If you ever have to lift it and reposition, whatever usefulness seems lost? But, what do I know?

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 23, 2016, 03:03 AM:
 
Cal, what are you using for the cradle?

What, exactly are you using too Fred?

- DAA
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 23, 2016, 04:48 AM:
 
Leonard, Athlon has a transferrable, lifetime warranty for all their scopes. That definitely mitigated the risk factor for trying 'un-tested' gear...

Dave, I'll start from the ground up on the kit.
Tripod is a (discontinued) Manfrotto 732CY
Head is a Sirui K-10x (edit)
Cradle shown is a TRICLAWPS clamp mount

For night hunting, I have PRS cradle, shown here (not my pic)
 -

The PRS cradle has Picatinny rail mounted to the right side, where I attach a handheld red LED torch to. With that atop my 701HDV fluid head, I can pan & scan the light back & forth, while the rifle sits across my legs. That way, I'm only panning the empty cradle & attached light...saves ALOT of effort. IF/when I see "eyes", I just lift the rifle up and rest it into the PRS cradle while keeping the light on the critter. Sounds a little wonky, but it works for me!

There are some other gun 'clamps' on the market, most notably the Hog Saddle & Pig Saddle. Those suckers are heavy duty, designed to hold 'sniper' rifles from improvised positions: (also not my pic, LOL)
 -

Seeing as how my predator rifles are <11 lbs, I went with the Triclawps clamp at less than 1/2 the price of a Hog Saddle...

I'll say right off, for whacking a <150 yd. coyote, a tripod's advantage is prolly negligible. But once you get out toward & past 200yds, the tripod/clamp/ballhead becomes much easier to hold & keep steady on. I've shot my kit side by side with Bogpods & Stoney points, and the difference is quite apparent.

Far as maneuvering goes, just keep two tripod legs rearward, and one leg forward. If you have to re-position, just tilt back onto the rear legs, then lift & move, same as you would a set of two-legged stix.
As I mentioned above, this is where the ballhead shines, allowing you to 'self-level' the rifle/cradle after moving on uneven ground. Having to adjust the leg height to re-level the rifle ain't gonna happen when a coyote's on the way, but the ballhead makes it a non-issue...

Like I said, I started using the tripod to keep my hands free at night. But its been serving equally well during the day. I HATE wearing heavy gloves, so when its cold, I can keep my hands in my pockets while my rifle sits supported 'at the ready'...

Even though the setup weighs a tad more than traditional stix, the relief it allows on stand by holding the mass of your rifle really adds up! And it sure is nice to not hafta keep the rifle balanced against your shoulder & on the stix while running the remote. Now, I just sit back & comfortably recline in my turkey seat until incoming fur is detected. From there on out, I'm up on the rifle and ready to shoot from a rock solid support...

Too bad that 732CY tripod is discontinued! It's barely 2 lbs., just sturdy enough to hold a predator rifle from a seated position. Been looking at other lightweight tripods & Slik is a candidate.

Also curious to see which tripod Cal is using!?!

[ March 29, 2016, 04:53 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 23, 2016, 05:02 AM:
 
Here's my whole enchilada, after a successful stand in Oklahoma. That's the Manfrotto 055 ball head holding my .22-243AI in the Triclawps clamp...

 -

Once the weather warms up, gonna 'sponge' on some flat Tan & OD Krylon onto the dark parts of the head and clamp to knock the visibility down...
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 23, 2016, 05:29 AM:
 
Thanks Fred!

I have several tripods, a couple ball heads and one fluid head. So all I'd need to try it is the cradle.

For lightweight, maybe even "too" light? I have this CF tripod:

http://www.feisol.net/tripods/travel-tripods/feisol-travel-tripod-ct-3441t-rapid.html

It has a Markins Q3T ball head on it. It's the rig I carry when I want to hike long distances with my DSLR and a 'pod. Wouldn't be that much more to carry on stand than a bog pod tripod with their long cradle.

For heavy, maybe even "too" heavy? I have this CF tripod:

http://www.feisol.net/tripods/elite-tripods/feisol-tripod-ct-3472.html

And it has this (70mm) ball head on it:

http://www.feisol.net/heads/ball-heads/feisol-ball-head-cb-70d.html

It's the rig I use for running my DSLR out of a vehicle, or anytime I want to use my long lens (600mm) off a tripod. It's incredibly steady and damps out vibrations amazingly fast. More than I'd want to carry on a coyote stand, but I'd sure be willing to carry it on a canyon style 'chuck walk about where most shots are 300+ on coke can sized targets.

And then I have an older set of Manfrotto aluminum legs with a 501 fluid head on it. Used to shoot video off it. The legs, although heavy, aren't nearly as stable as the CF legs above, and takes ten times as long to damp out vibrations. I tested them side by side one day with my 600mm lens and the CF legs were so vastly superior it wasn't even funny!

- DAA
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 23, 2016, 05:53 AM:
 
Dave, I don't think that first setup with the CF Feisol and Markens head would be too light, at all. Would be just about ideal, actually!

Heck, my little 732CY tripod is only rated for 7.7 lbs. But, being I only really extend the first set of leg extensions, it holds a rifle plenty steady. I'd sure want to step up to something heavier if I were any higher off the ground...

I also have a much larger Manfrotto 055CX PRO Carbon fiber tripod. That sucker is ALOT more beefy than the puny 732CY, and with the bigger 055 ball head, can support a heavy rifle & shoot from standing position with, no problemo...

Yeah man, looks like all ya'd need is that Triclawps to go with your lightweight tripod/Markens head. Real nice stuff ya got, BTW!!!
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 23, 2016, 05:27 PM:
 
Interesting stuff.

For me, I always call with a partner so whatever I need in the way of clamping and holding devices, I tend to mount them on my rack, for hunting out of the hatch. But, I know many of us have no experience, other than our Texas friends.

Anyway, I have always considered Manfrotto as the cat's ass for tripods and the clamping heads, etc. Now, Dave comes up with Feisol, a brand I have never heard of? Is it comparable, or considered better or what? Or in the realm of personal choice?

I've seen some more stout tripods but they are usually made differently with a sliding square tube (or wood) sandwiched between two side supports. But, I notice you guys are using aluminum tubing legs. Still not inexpensive, if those are real world prices?

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 24, 2016, 04:53 AM:
 
Leonard, Manfrotto has always been a mostly mid level type of brand. Good stuff, always has been, but hasn't ever really been considered top end. Though in recent years they have been coming out with some CF legs aimed at the high end market. But Gitzo gets most of the accolades there and is the brand most used by photographers. The Feisol's I have are basically bargain priced Gitzo knock-offs. Not considered a high end brand, more of a low end trying to act high end. I've found them very well made and a great bang for the buck compared to the expensive stuff.

And - no, not aluminum. Carbon fiber. Way more better than aluminum!

- DAA
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 24, 2016, 04:54 AM:
 
Leonard, 'walk-in' hunting definitely poses its own set of challenges. The way I hunt here, the tripod deal has proven to be the schizz! And I've taken it out west a couple times, allows for the same comfort, stability & convenience on stand out there, too...

Manfrotto is a most recognizable name, but Feisol, Markens & some others make some high quality shit. Really Right Stuff makes some crazy high end gear, too! Dave has mentioned in the past how much $$$ a quality camera lens can set ya back, so it only stands to reason that photographers take their support devices VERY seriously! If you want your head to spin, just go to B&H Photo's website & surf around for camera support gear. YOWZA!!!

I actually have been to the physical storefront of B&H on the west side of Manhattan, it is MIND BOGGLING, to say the least!

Funny story, I actually took my dog into B&H store when he was a few month old pup. The security guard at the door looked at Pokey's orange collar with brass nameplate, and asked if he was a service dog in training? I just nodded & in we went, LOL.

Once inside, it was like no other store I'd ever been in! B&H is operated entirely by Hasidim, and run like a military operation, at that!

Customers take # at a service desk in the area of interest. When your # is called, you get individual service from a knowledgeable sales associate. You have 1 on 1 attention from that moment, on.

When you decide on a product(s), you are issued another ticket & directed to the payment line, downstairs.

Once payment is tendered, you are issued ANOTHER ticket to be remitted at the merchandise pickup line!

Before you leave, your receipt & merchandise are checked one last time, by security.

I'm telling ya, its some operation! I just remember the quirky looks I got, having my little red pup @ heel in that unique & crowded store. Funny shit!!!

Anymore, I order from B&H website. No hassles & free shipping that usually turns out to be 'next day', due to proximity. I'll take that, over driving across Manhattan, any day!

ANYHOO...

It's only in the last decade or so that information of military snipers adopting/modifying camera support devices to hold rifles has become common knowledge. From that point, it's only a matter of time before those tactics have trickled down to, and modified by, recreational shooters & hunters for their own use. Seeing as how predator hunters are mostly riflemen at heart, adopting camera gear for our benefit has been a foregone conclusion, far as I'm concerned...
 
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 24, 2016, 02:15 PM:
 
Man those are some nice high tech gadgets for calling coyotes. I'm almost embarrased to admit that I am still using my old and worn Verne Howey shooting sticks.

Good Hunting Chad
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 24, 2016, 03:25 PM:
 
Me too Chad!

I've bought and tried others but keep going back to my old Howeys.

- DAA
 
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 24, 2016, 03:27 PM:
 
I'll call and raise you Chad....nothing but elbows on knees for me, can't do pods and sticks.
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 24, 2016, 03:28 PM:
 
I think I might try the Triclawps now too,. Thinking more chucks than coyote but if I have it I'll dang sure give it a whirl on some stands.

- DAA
 
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 24, 2016, 09:29 PM:
 
Vic, I fold.... I'm to damn shakey unless I have a good pair of Howey sticks as a rest.
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 25, 2016, 03:59 AM:
 
Like I said, the tripod allows me more than just added stability, it allows my rifle to stay 'at the ready' while on 60-90 minute stands. I realize that part is easily lost on you fellas who get squirmy by 8 minutes and are headed back to the truck @ 12 minutes...

But, make a long stand & try keepin' your rifle pointed toward the likely area of approach for an hour, or more. After enduring a few of those stands, reckon it would be a might easier to see the upside of going "hands free"...

I can shoot off stix, too. Heck, I even broke a set of cheapo stix one day & shot coyotes, elbows/knees. Not my forte or preference, but doable, nonetheless. More power to you gents for keeping it real!!!
But, for how I choose to call here, this rifle clamp/tripod deal is a blessing on long stands. And the convenience it allows for is not lost on shorter stands, either.
If/when a long shot does present itself, three legs are appreciably more solid, than two. In that regard, I'll take every bit of extra stability that I can get!!!

Dave, I think you'll like using the tripod for 'chucks! I did some of my 'testing' of various heads while chuck smackin'. A fluid head is OK for static targets like 'chucks, just level the legs off & shoot...
 -

As you eluded to, being able to hit a soda can sized target at more than a few hundred yards is not easy. Well, not without a tripod, anyway!
 -

For ease of target acquisition, the ball head is far & away the better mousetrap. And while 'chuckin', you can carry both the Triclawps & your spotting scope with Arca-Swiss plates attached, and swap 'em back & forth onto the tripod head. Easy peasy!

[ March 25, 2016, 04:08 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 25, 2016, 05:20 AM:
 
Yeah, I've always gone prone for walk about chucks. The longish ones anyway. But since having my neck fused last year, that ain't happening anymore!

- DAA
 
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on March 25, 2016, 06:08 AM:
 
DAA, I remember you mentioning about possibly having neck surgery sometime back. I hope it went well? How did it turn out though?
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 25, 2016, 11:41 AM:
 
Lonny, it went "pretty good". Surgery itself was no big whoop. A year later and I still have pain, but it's very mild compared to a year ago. And, doc told me it would take up to two years for the nerves to heal, so there's hope for more improvement in the pain department.

Mobility not effected all that much, either. But craning my neck from a prone position just kinda doesn't work anymore.

- DAA
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 25, 2016, 11:56 AM:
 
So, what happened, whiplash or degenerative? I have neck problems myself, due to a severe whiplash probably 40 years ago and some subsequent arthritis. I used to do a lot of design work that required me to analyze overhead plant. Always looking UP involved chronic pain. I can't even sleep on my stomach. (my used to be, preferred position) Can't turn my head that far sideways.

I have a small chip on (forget?) first or second vertebrae,
(I should know that, but it was a long time ago) and it's where they would have to cut from the front, and the thought of that freaks me out so I never really considered it. Getting old ain't for sissies.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 25, 2016, 04:15 PM:
 
Don't feel bad about not remembering which discs Leonard. I can't even remember which two I had fused... It was either C3-C4 or C4-C5, but I don't remember exactly.

Had bone spurs pinching a nerve. Nerve tore. Hellaciously painful. Lived with it for months. Only way it could heal, was remove the spurs to unpinch the nerve. Came in from the front, moved all my throat stuff out of the way, removed a disc, chiseled off the bone spurs, put a deadmans bone spacer in place of the disc, screwed it all together with a titanium plate.

Like I said, still feeling that torn nerve, but it's not anything like it was before surgery.

- DAA
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 25, 2016, 04:17 PM:
 
Oh, and the surgery wasn't bad at all. Went in early in the morning, home late that afternoon. That was on a Thursday. Drove to pick my wife up from the hospital from having her own problems the next day. Went to work on Monday.

- DAA
 
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on March 26, 2016, 04:41 AM:
 
I would love to get by with less, I just don't seem to be able to. I shot Verns sticks for years. The tri pod deal weighs similar and isn't really any harder to carry. I'm using a "pig saddle" on mine. I prefer prone for anything over 200 yards but due to brush or grass I can't do it in many places. I just can't stand missing if I can help it, and I can't shoot accurately very far without a rest or off my knees and elbows. One thing Fred pointed out about the tri pod system is that it is nice to have your gun sitting there already in position.
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 26, 2016, 08:13 AM:
 
That's the thing about prone. Not only can it be stressful on level ground, as opposed to looking downhill, but in so many cases, grass and all kinds of twigs and brush can obscure your vision. Then, two more problems, for me. You have ants crawling all over you and it's amazing the amount of scattered dead cactus spines mixed in the gravel! I always seem to find them by the braille method.

I found, in the army that my best position was squatting, elbows supported on my knees. This is explained when there might be toxic agents on the ground, so you don't want to lie in it, if at all possible. That's why, like Vic is always talking about, I started using shooting sticks late in the game. I was always content propping my elbows on my knees; it's very stable.

And, lastly, like Dave, my neck just won't allow me to shoot prone on level ground. The time I killed six coyotes on a stand, I was prone, and quite comfortable on top of a pile of gravel; a custom fit if there ever was one.

these days, however, I am quite attached to my sticks, which are two part with a ball detent quick detachable two part fixture permanently attached to the forestock. Works for me, and I'm a little puzzled as to why it's not a lot more popular?

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 26, 2016, 10:24 AM:
 
Looks great Fred!

Wish we could use a rifle at night here in the Peoples' Republik.
 
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on March 27, 2016, 08:13 AM:
 
Somebody always builds a better mousetrap. I've been looking at these tripod innovations since I watched Cal's FoxPro episode. I can see the advantage of having a stand alone rest when glassing, like he does, filming, or running a light. For what I do, resting the buttstock on my leg, keeping it put with one hand and running the remote with the other, I'm sticking with my original setup (Hammer's) at this point. I did manage to let my bolt rifle roll out of it once when it was still pretty new. That's only happened the one time though.

Leonard and Vic, there's some of you who are sharp shooters and prefer to keep it simple. I applaud guys who can shoot as well as they want without fancy gadgets. Some of us need to cheat. I can state unequivocally that my shooting has improved by a big margin since switching to a tripod. As much difference as sticks make, being able to lean into that front tripod leg and remove almost every bit of wobble from a variety of positions, is a big improvement.
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 27, 2016, 09:36 AM:
 
quote:
my shooting has improved by a big margin since switching to a tripod.
Of course. I wouldn't deny the truth of a steadier tripod, I think it has to do with the utility or "handiness" when dragging those three legs right or left on a runner. But, Wyoming conditions where you can see way out yonder is going to be an advantage; in a lot of cases. Especially since Cal is a dad burned professional and probably knows exactly where his coyote will come romping in, direction and exactly when.

You know the drill, considering AZ conditions. Especially doubles busting out of cover, moving your elbows may be a little faster if not more accurate than a tripod. But, I haven't seen your habits and where you set up, so you know what you are doing, we just have to guess. Also, I might like to find out one day, but understand you prefer solo yote wackin' so perhaps it's not in the cards?

No, it's obviously steadier and therefore, more accurate. It just depends on whether it's worth it on 75/100 yard chip shots?

That reminds me of something. You probably eliminate 75 yard chip shots by how and where you set up? I spent an afternoon with a man probably ten years ago, and he, (several times) walked out in unfamiliar cover, analyzing as he proceeded, and when he didn't see the exact set up, he turned around and walked back to the truck!

Now me? I would have made the most of it, but wasting 15-20 minutes walking out and walking back without sitting down and...well, you know? I'm still scratching my head over that one and some of you guys might know who I'm talking about, especially if you shoot sub-calibers? lol

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on March 27, 2016, 01:06 PM:
 
Whether it's worth it or not is the key. I still get my share of gimmes on the ones who are willing to play with the dogs, but more times than not they like to back out a ways and survey the situation from a safe distance. I cover them at that point and the instant they give me an indication that they are going to split, I try to seal the deal. Sometimes it's a simple head turn, sometimes it's a lot more urgent than that and some of those still live to be called to again. I haven't killed a handful of coyotes with a shotgun over the last 5 or 6 years, and you're right, I won't sit down in a place where I can't see to shoot a ways. I don't turn around and go back to the vehicle very often, but it does happen. I don't like it, and I don't like walking very far to set up, but my thinking is that I'm not going to call a spot if I don't feel like I have a pretty reasonable chance of killing anything that shows up. My daddy always said "Boy, if you're gonna do anything, do it right". Non-summertime coyotes, dogs, and tight cover is bad juju, IMO.

Early on in my dog morph I had several instances where I could see flashes of the players in the brush, but could never shoot. Sometimes it went on for quite a while and no matter how many times I whistled the dog back into the open, the coyote/s wouldn't go for it. Doesn't take a whole lot of that kind of frustration to get a guy to tweak his tactics. What I do with my dogs is quite a bit different than the experts, and the little pot lickers cost me coyotes every year. The joys of calling over dogs when it ain't dogging season, lol. I am going to go up north one more time next weekend if the wind cooperates. Hopefully the coyotes will be a little more cooperative than the were a month ago.
 
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on April 05, 2016, 04:42 PM:
 
Exactly as I expected. No locating, but if you sit down in the right spot, you'll have fun. Sat down in one right spot over a day and a half. Had coyotes howling all around me beyond that, but not close enough. They ain't going far this time of year. Called a double in the one right spot and my partner missed the bitch as she was exiting, stage left. The only other coyote we saw showed at about 15 minutes, was in no big hurry, and got snuffed at ~200. Lone dog. If I lived close enough to that place that I could do some homework, there would be a lot more fun to be had.
 
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 06, 2016, 04:45 AM:
 
Jiminaz, I'm not familiar with your country,but you think a lot like I do. I am aware that my style of calling or stand selection doesn't work everywhere. I figured that out a few times. First time was when I went to the World hunt a year it was in Elko. I talked to Les Johnson a little and he said we needed to get in the brush with those coyotes there. I didn't beleieve I couldn't call them out of the brush like I was used to. He was right, I was wrong, and we got our asses kicked.

[ April 06, 2016, 04:46 AM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 08, 2016, 10:32 AM:
 
Courtesy of Dave's input, I wound up snoopin' around with Feisol tripods a bit more. Wound up grabbing a CT-3402 tripod. Its only a few ounces more than my old Manfrotto 732-CY, but has a wider base that allows it to be quite a bit more sturdy & stable. Swapped that Sirui K-10x ball head onto it with the Triclawps clamp, and that fucker is really solid...
Still have to weigh the whole enchilada to confirm the weight penalty, but its definitely tolerable. Toting it in a daypack makes carrying chores a non-issue...
Will swap my 700RC2 mini fluid head back onto the 732-CY tripod for night calling chores, where the extended handle allows for easy panning of the light. And that combo will be a honey for backpack trips with a baby Nikon ED50a spottin' scope.

Looking forward to see how/ if you dudes make out with your tripod rigs!!!
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 08, 2016, 11:26 AM:
 
I continue to be agnostic. But, you folks have my blessings. <roll eyes>

No, really. I think shooting sticks like I use, which is solidly attached to the forestock similar to a Harris bipod and pulled into my shoulder completes the three point steadiness. Good enough for me....at ranges which I (ethically) have any business shooting at an animal. Truthfully, I don't miss very many.

Sorry. I'm all for innovation; I just don't see the vast need.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on April 08, 2016, 12:06 PM:
 
If your agnostic Leonard; Im an atheist. I constantly rib one of my coyote hunting partners, that if I can't shoot a called coyote off my hind legs, or sitting with an elbow on a knee, I have no fucking business being out there.
He uses a set of sticks I got off Byron South from one of the past rondys. If my pard forgets those sticks, the world comes to an end, he is not comfortable shooting without them.
 
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 08, 2016, 12:13 PM:
 
I am by no means a great rifle shot, but I have never felt like I needed more than my Howey shooting sticks for most shots on Coyotes from 50-300 yards. Which is probably 99% of the Coyotes I shoot at with my rifle. There have been a very few number of times when I could of used a little steadier rest but definitely not enough to give up my Howeys.

More often than not anymore I have the problem Cal mentioned, with Coyotes not wanting to come out of the thick Nevada Sage brush. So I usually pack my Benelli most of the time and get right in there with them.lol

Good Hunting Chad
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 09, 2016, 04:16 AM:
 
You guys can keep nitpicking the significance of a stability benefit, but ya can't argue the convenience factor a tripod allows for.

For illustrative purposes, this is a 20lb. rifle being held securely. Obviously not a coyote rifle, just making a point on the stability a tripod allows for...
 -
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 09, 2016, 07:25 AM:
 
I don't think anybody is doing that, Fred. I said previously, that a tripod is obviously a more stable platform than a bipod.

The question is: do some of us think a tripod is required in shooting a predator on an average day stand? I know people that have killed 20 coyotes in a single day, that didn't need a tripod to accomplish the task. Myself, on a few fortunate occasions, I have killed a dozen coyotes in one day of hunting.

Every once in a while, a situation came up where a steadier rest might have had advantage. But, like they say, call them closer. Not really, I understand that is a copout because, in the case of multiples, they aren't coming in, they are getting the hell out of Dodge.

So many scenarios. We have all seen cover that doesn't allow any kind of shot past 78.5 yards. If you need a steady device in such a situation, you probably partied a bit too much the night before.

Anyway, for myself, a tripod is one of those things we can sometimes sacrifice because it's too heavy and one item too much junk to pack to a stand location. I'm not a minimalist, at all, but somethings I can manage without, in the majority of situations. I will leave my can of Sprite and the cupholder most of the time, although there is no denying, it's cool to have.

Another thing, if you have suffered along to this point. Fred, that rig looks like it is not even close to the balance point? I can understand reasons for it but as soon as you loosen the thingy that holds it tight....never mind, I'm sure you have it fingered out.

If you ever catch me on stand with a tripod, I deserve chastisement. Don't hold your breath! [Smile]

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 11, 2016, 04:42 AM:
 
Leonard, I purposely dropped that heavy rifle in the cradle in order to show the gripping power & base of the system. The fact that the rifle is "off balance" only serves to highlight how stable & rigid that tripod will hold a rifle in a 'ready' position on stand. Then, all ya gotta do is sit up into a natural position behind rifle to get on target. The gun is waitin' for ya, just where ya left it...

Once on the rifle, the weak-side hand controls the tension knob (left side) of the ball head. It's only maybe a 1/2 a turn to loosen it, and you're back to smooth movement from the ball head. Once you're on target, if you please, you can snug the tension knob back up a bit to 'lock down' for super stability. Or, keep the ball head 'loose' and shoot, same as you would off stix...

Point is, the weak side hand remains on the tension knob control while up on the gun, and the intuitive nature of adjusting the tension & tracking a moving target comes quick & easy! If you have to swing beyond the range of your body position, that same off-side hand is used to pick the whole tripod up & re-position it as you shift around (same as you would do with a two-legged stix). With the added benefit of having the ball head able to 'level' the rifle off regardless of leg position. As mentioned earlier, this is where the ball head shines over a fluid head...

It's cool that you older, seasoned dudes stick to yer guns about how ya do things. It obviously works & works well, otherwise you'd be doing different. Just making it known that sometimes a mousetrap comes along that actually might be a better one than the ol' snaptrap you're used to.

I'm an equal opportunity coyote caller and will use anything & everything at my disposal to become better at killing every coyote that comes to a call.

Isn't that what we're all striving for? Or, is this some pm-esque pipedream where we call coyotes just to catch a glimpse, then watch 'em run off with master's level education in Lightning Jack & Pup 3???

If avoiding that eventuality means toting a tripod in my AO, then pass the carbon fiber, please! Getting to the point now where the ones that get away crowd my memory more than the ones that didn't. Man, I hate to see them get away!!!

For conversation...
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 11, 2016, 04:43 AM:
 
Looking good Fred.

I've got a Triclawps now too. Looking forward to trying it out on some walk about 'chucks next month.

Will definitely give it a try on a few coyote stands too. Thinking it would be especially good if I want to try having a shotgun and a rifle when I'm by myself.

- DAA
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 11, 2016, 06:47 AM:
 
Just one final point, Fred. (and read this without hostility, I really mean well, as you do)

Make no mistake, when it comes to innovation or trying new, different things, you have no idea where we have been and the things that have gone on in terms of trying something else, something new.

I mean, quite literally, the evolution is mind boggling. Even something so conventional as shooting sticks. There must be 20 or 30 available? Do you think it was always that way? Was there always a Foxpro? Do you think we have always had camo'ed fiberglass stocks?

Way before there were factory chambered 22-250Ackley's and 6.5 Creedmore's, a hot ticket was the 243Winchester, and a 222Rem Magnum; still adequate, BTW.

I have sat a stand with a tape deck and recorded hand calls. I used to lug my handmade machine and a motorcycle battery on stand. You people have no idea how lucky you are when it comes to things that are just handed to you?

There was a time when camouflage clothing was unavailable, maybe WWII at the Army surplus store, if you were lucky? So don't sit there so smug and rave about fluid heads and having everything all figured out. (read that gently, it's well intended)

So. Sorry, you don't deserve my scolding, I know you have the best of intentions.

But, really, I didn't just fall off the pumpkin truck. I have fabricated stuff you wouldn't believe. Now a days, you order "online" when we didn't even have computers. Wow! Was there a time we didn't have iPhones and GPS? Can you imagine, before computer ballistic programs?

There was a time, nobody was hunting coyotes, a few guys in Kalifornia and maybe Texas? THAT'S IT ! This was before OUR pressure forced coyotes all the way to New York, in the past fifty years or so. At one time, if I saw somebody hunting coyotes anywhere in the state of Nevada, I knew who they were. Nobody else bothered with such trivial stuff.

So, there really wasn't a market for the things we all take for granted these days. If you get a Cabela's catalog, the first fifty pages are concerned with every item of camouflaged clothing, all patented and GoreTexed in every shade imaginable.... When, years ago, we couldn't find it anywhere, at any price.

John Wooters wrote a column in Guns and Ammo once where he described how he painted his coveralls in patterns to look like prickly pear cactus. That's how bad it was. And, I am dwelling on something so basic; specialized clothing. Now you can get your ball point pen in camo, and your knife and your flashlight. Can you imagine that at one time, we couldn't get ANYTHING in any camo?

If I was really stuck in my ways, I would buy an Army poncho and spray paint it in 2 or 3 colors and call it good. You think I haven't?

Yes, you young whippersnappers have it easy these days; telling us old foggies to get up to speed, get with the times! But, you have the benefit of all who have gone before you. Appreciate these gifts.

END OF RANT. LB

edit: by the way, that really is something to try, what Dave suggested above. a tripod holding either your rifle or shotgun ready. Not a bad idea to kick around.

edit: this is the comment that set me off:
quote:

It's cool that you older, seasoned dudes stick to yer guns about how ya do things. It obviously works & works well, otherwise you'd be doing different. Just making it known that sometimes a mousetrap comes along that actually might be a better one than the ol' snaptrap you're used to.



[ April 11, 2016, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 11, 2016, 09:40 AM:
 
No problemo, Leonard!

Hey, one thing I feel most of us share is having a deep-down driving passion for calling coyotes. That is a basic common denominator where we can all find common ground! The fact that we choose our own paths toward that passion is part of what makes the challenge so interesting & 'fresh'. So, disagreeing on 'this-n-that' is par for the course...

BTW, I called & killed my first coyote here in NY 19 yrs ago, with a Johnny Stewart tape player & 25ft roll-out speaker cord. So, although I'm not one of the pioneers of calling coyotes in the west, I didn't exactly just fall off the apple cart, either.

No worries! I just thought ya wouldn't be so quick to knock a tripod til ya actually tried one for yourself...
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 11, 2016, 10:58 AM:
 
Just reread my comments. I have NOT knocked a tripod. It is just that I don't really feel the need for one. If I borrowed one from one of you guys that have three or four stacked in the corner of the garage, I might try it, but I'm not spending $600 to try something that I don't think I need.

I think there is probably a place for a tripod, somewhere. If Cal Taylor uses one, I have to admit that much. If DAA is considering using one for 'chucks, I guess I should allow there is a place for such things. If NY Fred uses one, he must have a useful reason, or he is compensating for his inadequacies, or something? (just kidding)

Is tripods the Second Coming? Let the members decide!

Good hunting. El Bee

Real men vote NO

what do girly men say?

(I'm kidding, I'm kidding! Okay?)
 
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 12, 2016, 04:33 AM:
 
If I had all the dollars back I've spent trying new shit...

I'd have a lot of dollars!

But the tri-pod deal works. I've shot a dozen or twenty coyotes with it now and I like it. FOR MY STYLE OF HUNTING. I wouldn't pack it a lot of places, but here it's pretty handy.
 
Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on April 12, 2016, 04:42 AM:
 
In these blackjack and scrub oak hills of north east Okla. its hard enough to get shooting sticks level, a tripod would be a nightmare. I could see them for out west where its flat, but where I hunt you don't get many shots that are on flat ground or over 200yds and that would be a long shot. I use Stoney point shooting sticks for the last ten years they work for me. Everybody does it different, some like it old school and simple and some go for the Buck Rogers approach to each his own.
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 12, 2016, 05:27 AM:
 
Eddie, the tripod/ball head actually works better than two legged stix on un-even ground, because the floating head does the leveling for you! Trust me, it works in Oklahoma...
 -

 -

[ April 12, 2016, 05:28 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 12, 2016, 06:21 AM:
 
I need to find this:
quote:
out west where its flat
But, I think Stoney Point is what I use?

And besides, maybe the fact that a tripod is stand alone is the advantage more than "steady" while aiming?

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: http://www.cabelas.com/ensemble/Hunting/Hunting-Accessories/Shooting-Sticks-Bipods%7C/pc/104791680/c/104734980/sc/104564880/Stoney-Point-Rapid-Pivot-Bipod/5715.uts

[ April 12, 2016, 06:24 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 26, 2016, 11:14 AM:
 
I've seen Fred hit a smaller than life size steel coyote target at a 1000 yards with that tripod setup. While not a practical distance for coyote killin, it does make for a stable platform.

Im still using a two legged bogpod and like it, but never know what the future holds.

PS nice day in Oklahoma Fred. Yall did well.

Kelly
 
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 26, 2016, 11:43 AM:
 
Is that Buck Rodgers up there?
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 15, 2016, 05:13 PM:
 
Got a chance to try out the Triclawps on a few chucks this weekend. Using my .22-250AI. Worked pretty good!

 -

 -

In the spot pictured above, we were popping them off those reefs across the canyon. Anywhere from 275 yards, to the furthest one at 475 yards.

Here's a few that all got plucked off a spire at 370. Three shots, three sploots.

 -

Don't think it would work very well for me on my typical coyote stand. Some of the time, it could be real handy, but not that often. I like it though, easy-easy setup for stuff like walk and pop for chucks along a canyon rim.

- DAA
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on May 16, 2016, 03:36 AM:
 
 -
 
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 16, 2016, 04:44 AM:
 
That would definitely be a sweet setup for rock chucks, or Prairie dogs. But definitely not a Coyote stand setup. At least where I call.

Good Hunting Chad
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 16, 2016, 06:41 AM:
 
I agree, the Nevada contingent has voted. I mean, I really don't need to try it. Yes, it would work, but <shrug> I see no vast need?

But, Dave has a slick deal for chucks. That's the application, as I see it.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 11, 2016, 11:30 AM:
 
following up here...
Forgot to mention in the 'chuckin' thread that several of them were shot sitting behind my Feisol/Sirui tripod. Even had my vid-cam attached to a tripod leg, but the slight recoil pulse pushed the impact out of frame...

Anyhoo, just got off the phone with a tech dude from RRS . They have a line of mounts & stuff catered toward the precision rifle crowd (Really Right Stuff SOAR).

Thinking that an Anschutz rail flush mounted under the stock forend would allow for a slick attachment point to a QD mount.
If it comes to pass, a 'direct-connect' QD rail mount would eliminate the need for a rifle clamp altogther! Rifle would clamp right into the ball head with the throw of a QD lever. Man, that'd save even more weight and be a real slick setup to work.

Just thinkin' out loud. But I'll make it work to try out, one way or the other! Having an Anschutz rail installed on a new A3 to do just that...

[ July 11, 2016, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 11, 2016, 03:09 PM:
 
Fred, I actually thought that exact thought to myself while using my Triclawps. Thought "WTF do you need a clamp for" Just put an Arca Swiss right on the rifle and go".

Be most interested in your project.
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 12, 2016, 03:33 AM:
 
Yeah man.
If we can enjoy the same convenience & stability with less weight & less tolerance stacking of attachments, I think that'd be swell...

If ya looked at that SOAR link, you'd see some of the available ArcaSwiss plates already in production. This one below is for an "M-LOK" rail:
 -

If your rifle had an M-LOK rail, it would sit pretty with that adapter plate:
 -

The conversation I had was an attempt to modify that M-LOK plate to work with an Anschutz rail. Reckon all that would require was a new set of backing nuts that mate up properly with the Anschutz sized rail. Here's a reference pic of an Anschutz rail under a McMillan forend:
 -

The gent I spoke with @ RRS seemed into the possibility! They are going to source an Anschutz rail from Champion Shooters and look into the viability of making some new backing nuts to work...

Will keep posted!

[ July 12, 2016, 03:33 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 12, 2016, 05:10 AM:
 
I have something like that but it's a short Picatinni that allows my Atlas bipod to attach to the forearm. Not as slick as that Anshutz rail and in the wrong location, balance wise, but it would work, I guess? Anyway, that's a slick set up Fred, if you must use a $1000 tripod.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 12, 2016, 05:53 AM:
 
Fred, yup, I looked at the link, have always been interested in RRS stuff.

Anyhow... I think they should be interested in the Annie rail, it's a common system.

I know a guy, pretty well, but haven't talked to him for a couple years. I don't think he's doing anything directly with Anschutz anymore, but has at various times done consulting work and was the N. American rep for awhile. He could probably at least find out who the right person to talk to would be.

- DAA
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 12, 2016, 06:35 AM:
 
Leonard, I've got short rails on a few stocks for attaching a bipod, also. Altas makes those rails and they'll work with any 'varmint' type stock that has two sling studs up front. Or, you could install using T-nuts, like this (that's what I did):
 -

The Anschutz rail will allow for the same thing, with the use of an Atlas BT-28 rail. Just slide it up into the front end, rock & roll!
 -

Dave, happily, McMillan has 10" Anschutz rails in stock and will install e'm too. So, having one factory done on an A3 for new Defiance actioned rifle. If this whole deal works out, I can see retro-fitting Anschutz rails onto another stock, or three. We'll see how it all shakes out!
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on August 26, 2016, 01:50 PM:
 
To follow up...
Heard back from Mike @ RRS. he said they were going to produce an Anschutz/Arca Swiss interface. That will be very cool for a 'direct connect' tripod setup...

Also, here's a pic of my latest iteration of tripod/clamp:
 -

As you can see, I negated the ball head altogether, in favor of a 'leveling base'. That base offers +/- 15degrees of cant, as well as panning left/right swivel-a-bility...
Nice thing is, it's a weight savings over the ball head as well as a more solid interface between rifle/tripod. Less tolerance stacking and a lower center of gravity atop the legs. Also, this base only cost $50, quite a bit cheaper than a quality ball head!

Of course, will need to shoot with this in the field to note any tangible improvement. Prolly will have to pay more attention to getting tripod legs closer to level from the git-go, but 15 degrees of cant should still be plenty absorb any dips in the terrain when moving the legs...
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 27, 2016, 05:26 AM:
 
This Fred is quite the gearhead!
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on August 28, 2016, 06:17 PM:
 
Interesting modification Fred!

I have a leveling base for my big tripod, the one in the pictures above. I've never used it, not sure how much range it has. It's actually a leveling center column?

But 15* wouldn't be enough for my typical coyote stand. Well, it would be, most of the time actually. But when big sideways moves are needed, it usually wouldn't be. I'm usually on a sidehill. It's why a tripod is just too awkward and cumbersome for my taste on a coyote stand, in general.

If it works for you though, mo power!

- DAA
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on August 29, 2016, 04:13 AM:
 
Dave, I suspect your leveling column is +/- 12-15°. Seems like standard max. adjustment is between 12-15 degrees for most I've looked into. Is yours the Feisol brand that drops into the tripod base???

I hear ya about setting up on side hills. There have been a few times on a steep hill where I'd just keep one tripod leg short (nearest me) and use the other two as traditional stix. Mostly though, I've been able to find a little bench or flat spot in the side hill to nestle into. That's where the ball head can do the work for staying level. Whereas, the limited travel of the leveling base might indeed be insufficient...

On semi flat/rolling ground, the tripod is the schizz! And the leveling base is definitely lower, more sturdy & surely seems easier to keep control of...

Hope to get out shooting this weekend to mess with it!

EDIT: here's the linky to the leveling base

[ August 29, 2016, 04:17 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on August 29, 2016, 05:06 AM:
 
Fred, yup, it's a center column that drops in. Sure you are right about the adjustment range, too. Would not serve your purpose as well as the base you are using - not as much weight or height saving.

It's for my big tripod anyway, which isn't the one I'd use on a coyote stand. I'd use the small one with the little Markins head on it.

Actually did take that one with me this weekend. Thought I might try carrying a shotgun and a rifle at the same time. But it was too hot for any extra work [Big Grin] . Simply carried one or the other. Which, change of subject here, but using a shotgun is basically a brand new concept for me. I've just never done it. Managed to kill a few with it this weekend. Can't say I'm a big fan, much prefer the rifle, but it definitely opens up stand possibilities and provides a "bail out" option on the kamikazes. Kicks like a fucking mule though. And expensive as ten sons a bitches to shoot. And probably just me and my lousy shotgunning skills, but had to shoot every one of them twice. That just goes against my grain, sloppy multi shot kills just suck.

- DAA
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 29, 2016, 05:27 AM:
 
There are kernels of wisdom in the above post. Just think about shooting every coyote @ $5 a pop and having to kill him twice! But, that's something I learned 25 years ago, always keep an eye on dead coyotes because most of them don't know it.

Les Johnson is the guy that seems to have much success with a rifle and shotgun on stand. Myself, I hardly bother, unless it's a hunt contest and then you are covering your bet. Still, if you pick your stand very carefully, having a choice can work.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on September 06, 2016, 04:38 AM:
 
Shot over the weekend with the new leveling base.Pretty sure I prefer it to a ball head! There's just no chance of the rifle 'tipping' over, due to the limited travel of the leveling base. Rock friggin' solid to shoot from...

Waited on some 'chucks one evening, but nothing popped up. Still, was a pleasure to sit back and let the tripod/cradle hold the gun in position:

 -
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on October 11, 2016, 04:07 AM:
 
Got up to the farm over the weekend to do some bowhunting. And of course, make a stand or two...

Wound up knockin' the dust off my night tripod setup on the first stand, felt good to knock one outta the park in the first pitch!
 -

Quit while I was ahead and went back to bowhunting. Might have some friends coming in to do some calling, so gonna leave a bunch of good spots alone for the time being. Least I'm telling myself I will... [Wink]

Seen the buck I want to shoot, yesterday morning, but couldn't get an arrow to him. We'll get it figgered out here, soon enough!
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on October 11, 2016, 04:26 AM:
 
Sweet!

- DAA
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 11, 2016, 06:01 AM:
 
....and just like Wimbledon, on grass?

For/in our deserts, you just don't see manicured lawns where the coyotes have tender paws.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on October 11, 2016, 06:24 AM:
 
Yep, killed that one only a few hundred yards behind the house! Always make my first stand of the season close by, in case there are any dummies hangin' around.

That one was a dummy!

The pic is from the back lawn, after I dragged my shit back. Killed the coyote right in a strip of alfalfa between two corn field that were recently cut to stubble...
 -

You can see how lush the field are, in the daytime pic a couple posts up. With the fall foliage this time of year, its so pretty up there!
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on October 31, 2016, 03:45 AM:
 
Got my first bow-kill coyote over the weekend!

Was purely target of opportunity, as I was deer hunting, but I'll take it! Actually moved a stand down in near our 'sanctuary area', in hopes of getting an arrow in a nice buck we got on a trail cam. Per usual, the first sit in a new stand tends to be a good one!

Coyote sure looked like a big bastid when it was trotting up outta da swamp. Watched the arrow sail true thru the beech saplings & zip on out the other side. Knew I smoked it, but went back & grabbed the dog anyway...just for the fun/training aspect. Turns out, it only made it ~80yds...
 -

Such a thrill to see a coyote acting a coyote! They are just too friggin' cool to witness!!! Crazy thing is, I almost stutter stepped & didn't shoot, cuz I wanted to call him in & whack him fair & square. Unfortunately for him, that notion didn't last but a second before the arrow left the rest... [Smile]
 
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on October 31, 2016, 05:19 AM:
 
Outstanding !!!!!
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on October 31, 2016, 06:34 AM:
 
Very cool!

- DAA
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 31, 2016, 11:53 AM:
 
Yes, cool. But, do not clutter your mind with thoughts of "fairness" or ethics, or other rules of fair chase when it concerns coyotes. Any way you can stick a bullet or even an arrow into one or more is legal and ethical. You actually don't get style points, although I know a guy that spent years and needless screwups while attempting to kill two coyotes with one boolet. Must have been a personal thing?

I will admit to flinging lead at crossers, without having "called" them, although there are rules in contests that state the coyote be "called". The old joke is: Lipsqueak/Lipsqueak/Bang! Of course, he was called; or everything is fair in Love and War and Coyote Contests. Well, you know what I mean?

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on November 01, 2016, 03:32 AM:
 
Gotcha.
Just sayin', I'd rather have experienced the thrill of making a good stand & calling it in.

Pass shooting one with the bow was pretty cool, no doubt! But, calling a coyote here, at home, offers a satisfaction that's really hard to equal! That big fucker woulda been a treat to trick...
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on November 01, 2016, 04:27 AM:
 
Fred, I've shot a couple TOO's with my bow. But the first one I called in and killed with my bow, sitting on the ground with a hand call to boot, way, WAY more cooler than the one's I just injunned up on by happenstance.

I rarely shoot crossers anymore. Still happens once in awhile. Hard to say why it does when it does. But 90% of the time, I don't even consider it. Just no satisfaction in it for me I guess. About like shooting a prairie dog.

Still, every so often, I see one from the Jeep and do hop out and kill it?

- DAA
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 01, 2016, 05:43 AM:
 
Well, sorta "technically" we "call back" crossers, which is a minor art, all by itself. You know, either throw on the brakes, or drive past, there are decisions to be made if you want that dog.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ November 01, 2016, 05:44 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on November 01, 2016, 10:29 AM:
 
I don't shoot drive byes either, nor does anyone, while riding in my truck. Always love it when they get excited, yelling there's one!, to which I calmly tell them, we will call him another day, another time.
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 01, 2016, 11:23 AM:
 
But, you aren't particularly well suited to contest hunting. People that enter usually want to win and any coyote sighted is fair game. It's okay if you have some type of ethical reasons for not shooting a crosser, but you would be in a minority, which you could care less but statistically, umm? what were we talking about anyway?

Anyway....if there be some sort of artform in killing a coyote, let's say it should be done with a needlegun, for instance? But then there are those that think bodycount is part of the mystic? <shrug>

And, anyway, some people wouldn't shoot a mulie under 30 inches. Whatever you yardstick, call them in close or take, (and be proud of) a 600 yard shot. We all have standards.

For instance, yes you wouldn't pull over and allow me to shoot a crosser even if I were driving my truck: is sort of a bully tactic imposing your rules on me, and who's right? Myself, I hate to see a coyote get away, but it has happened.

No, I'm not that hardcore anymore. But there are times when I can resist everything but temptation. And, the crazy part is, I admire and like coyotes as a worthy adversary.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on November 01, 2016, 01:39 PM:
 
Really nothing to do with ethics, standards or yardsticks, it just doesn't trip my trigger. I could care less if anyone else wants to shoot drive byes, have at it. Hell; the coyotes dead, whether you shoot it as a drive by, or I kill it when calling....same end?
No judgment on my part, just a personal preference for how and when I kill it. I always liked Kellys sig line concerning coyote hunting,
" It ain't chess, it's checkers"
No art form, no science, no voodoo, it's fairly straight forward and simple, but hunters find ways to make it difficult.
 
Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on November 01, 2016, 03:36 PM:
 
I have shot several while deer hunting just because the land owners want them dead.
Got a double last year with my black powder. They came by my deer stand shot the first one the second one took off. Reloaded my gun, grab my grunt call ran the oring out to the end of the reed and went to crying like a hurt pup. Well the second one came back, shot it . Old TC 54 cal. not to fur friendly.

Fred you ought to try calling coons and shooting them with your bow! Things happen pretty fast and it can get a little wild.
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 01, 2016, 03:42 PM:
 
Plugging a crosser is about as basic as it gets? I must be a farm boy, reincarnate?

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by Eddie (Member # 4324) on November 01, 2016, 03:57 PM:
 
LB......you might be more Okie than you think!
Hey it don't get any better!
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 01, 2016, 05:02 PM:
 
THAT'S THE NICEST THING ANYBODY HAS SAID TO ME, ALL DAY!

Of course, I haven't left the house, exept to walk to the mailbox. But still.
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on November 02, 2016, 04:34 AM:
 
Leonard, one "calling" contest we hunted last year had a rule specifically modified to exclude 'road dogs'.

It read something to the effect that, "the animal must physically commit & approach the caller" So, the ol' "woof and shoot" off the truck hood don't pass muster. A coyote loping away from the truck don't count as a "called coyote", under that specific rule...

I thought that was a fair rule? I know the dude who ran the lie detector asked me if all the animals we killed "approached the call" before being shot. Actually, he asked the same question four different ways...

Have hunted another contest where it WAS legit to jump out & shoot a coyote. BUT, you had to clear the vehicle & the roadway, first. IE, get out, get off the road, and shoot without the aid of the vehicle as a rest/support...

Still, I'd rather let a road dog walk & try to make the right setup to call it in, later on. Whether that's 20 minutes later, or a another day...
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 02, 2016, 06:05 AM:
 
I don't know what the motivation is or what the contest organizers are trying to prove by such rules? People will always have an edge and you can't design rules to make sure that everyone is engaging with the same high standards.

Believe me, we have been there and done that many years ago. You can't force people to conform, they will find a way. As an example: we started flying to our hunting areas from the check in locations. So, certain people had a problem with that and the following year, rules were designed to make sure only one motor vehicle was used during the hours of the hunt.

This produced non "motorized" vehicles such as (I kid you not) skateboards and bicycles. Really, you can't outthink them. There was a rule that they must be called and one team member actually didn't know that his partner was making stands where he had set traps and his partner had a long string of lucky stands. These guys got their come upance a little later, things like arrested by tribal authorities and actually evacuated by helicopter with a gunshot wound, but when they get this elaborate in cheating, on contests that doesn't involve money, it's really hard to prevent someone with an advantage from exercising it. I heard of treble hooks imbedded in chunks of beaver and wired to a fencepost. Then there is the old standby, sandbagging coyotes the night before. Then, they take temperatures at check in and you can't make allowances for hunting at 10,000 feet and the next guy who is hunting a warmer area and the body temperature doesn't jive? Whatever the solution, you are always one step behind.

I ran our contests for almost eleven years straight and I have seen many different attempts. One of the first things we did was eliminate cash rewards as an incentive. Then, a short time later, no merchandise, like guns, etc. When all was said and done, winners, for many years were awarded a belt buckle or a cup or trophy and all that winner receives is glory. Sometimes, that's incentive enough to cheat, but believe me, you won't stop it because humans are very creative. Just look at the Olympics for drug enhancements and the product endorsements that follow.

I've grown weary trying to prevent cheating. As long as there is any award, somebody will try to have an edge. But designing rules based on principle or ethics, such as calling a coyote to a hunter, that is much too vague in interpretation. The most difficult to prevent is hunting areas. There is little doubt that hunting behind closed gates is a huge advantage, but how can you know and how can it be prevented?

One of our Huntmaster's members was busted for splitting the team, one year. A rule is a rule, but for me personally, I fail to see a valid reason for such a rule? If two guys can work a stand individually, I can't see that a rule that they must sit within a few yards of each other is legit?

All this to make sure the coyote is actually "called"? We used to have a rule, only hand calls, no electronics, at all. That was a very difficult rule to enforce. Maybe the participants should be restricted to Verified Saints so that there is no question that there was any cheating involved?

It starts getting ridiculous when a coyote must be heading on a string to the source of the sound....when I have PERSONALLY seen thousands of coyotes circle at hundreds of yards to engage the wind in their favor. Who the hell can say what a coyote is doing when responding to a call?

Lie detectors either don't work or they are unreliable. Another tool relegated to the trash heap. I think the term itself is a mistake.

It should be a coyote "hunting" contest, not a coyote "calling" contest. Somehow, you have to rule out dogs, but it can be done.

Sorry for the ramble
Good hunting. El bee
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on November 07, 2016, 07:07 AM:
 
Put 50rds mildly loaded rounds thru the new 6x47Lapua. SWEET shooting little cartridge! Didn't have the brake on, and didn't need it. Fucker was drillin' 105Hybrids to 630yds like it was nuthin'. Was watching my own bullet trace thru the scope, very cool!
 -
Reckon got a couple grains to step up & should break 3K with too much fuss...
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 07, 2016, 10:14 AM:
 
What velocity are you getting from those 105 Hybrids? That's the bullet I use in my 243Ackley, if you mean the Berger?

Good hunting. El Bee

PS keep that grass mowed!

edit: PS I just noticed in a catalogue, I can buy a fake suppressor for about 40 bucks. That way I'm not embarrassed to be actually in the field with a naked barrel. What do you think?

[ November 07, 2016, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on November 07, 2016, 11:20 AM:
 
Yes Leonard, the Berger Hybrid 105gr.
Swagged 2900fps MV in my ballistic app, it was close enough to work. Stayed pretty centered on my steel plates, out to 630yds.

Really just wanted to get some rounds thru it, and get the necked down brass fired 1x. I'll confirm finished load via chrono, should settle into the 3025-3075 range. That's pretty good, considering a 23" barrel...

Bet your AI is pushing' 3250-ish, at least?
 
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on November 07, 2016, 04:31 PM:
 
very nice Fred
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on November 07, 2016, 05:00 PM:
 
He'll yeah!

- DAA
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 08, 2016, 08:15 AM:
 
I have been thinking about it. And, I don't believe I have ever run that 243Ackley through the screens? Might get around to it? I'm curious now, that is a 30" straight, no taper Shilen barrel. I have lost a little interest because it's not the one holer I expected. One day soon, no doubt, I will look into it.

Good hunting. El Bee
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on November 23, 2016, 05:31 AM:
 
Well, was wanting to kill a deer with that 6x45AI, and got a chance to...
Had been shooting 87Vmaxs with it, but wanted to load a bullet more tailored to taking big game, so grabbed a box of 80TTSXs. Low & behold, those Barnes boolits shoot friggin' excellent, jumped .030" with a stout load of H335 behind them! Getting 2915fps from the 22" barrel, and that sucker drilled two holes right thru a nice fat doe...
Exit wound, and the offending contrivance:
 -

Was actually a pretty fun hunt. Had a band of lake effect now settle in over our AO, resulting in ~18" on the ground & 30-40mph winds to blow it around. My buddies were givin' me shit about not killing anything, so I caved to the peer pressure & humped it down into the swamp, in hopes up buffering the gale & maybe seeing a critter...
Was hoping to take a nice buck, but that doe gave me too swell a chance to pass up. 60yds, broadside...done deal! And given the weather, was happy to even see a deer.
Mission 6x45AI accomplished! Quite confident in that little purple pea shooter now, makes for a dandy little deer rifle...
 
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 23, 2016, 08:12 AM:
 
18 inches of snow & 30 to 40 mph wind ??????
Yeah, I can see that up on the Mountain from down here in the desert.
[Big Grin]
 
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on November 24, 2016, 07:51 AM:
 
Happy to see the plan working out Fred!

Count me as one of the wusses that would not have been out deer hunting in that kind of weather though!

- DAA
 
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 24, 2016, 09:19 AM:
 
But Dave. We both know that, looking back on that type of weather provides the most satisfying remembrances. I can think of many snotty situations suddenly forced to endure, and when all is said and done, I wouldn't have missed it for the world. Much more than the Bluebird days, in shirtsleeves.

That's it. Bad weather provides the most enduring memories.

I literally have a million of them but once, imagine four of us crammed into a cab all night with a storm howling, unable to go another yard. And, four of us trying to sleep; what a joke that was! Of course the tents were the furthest towards the front of the camper since they were packed first. Throwing all our shit out onto the snowbanks and setting up n the cold wind just didn't seem like a good idea.

At daylight, there were deer all around us, we all scored, I think by 8 o'clock and spent a fair amount of the morning and early afternoon butchering some nice bucks. So, that part was not so great, it was the torture, the cold cramped night, and you get the picture. Hunt was over before it hardly started, then there was no need to spend a week, as planned. Somehow, we had an idea; let's call some coyotes!

Lots of times, the story is the weather, in whatever form. The perfect trips, not so much. Yeah, I'm a wuss too, but when caught by the situation, and surviving, that's what you remember long after.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS I'm at Shelley's for turkey. Long trip, and Pinky wouldn't shut the hell up so I put him in the back. Covered him with a rug which he chewed to pieces but couldn't pull it off him. Too bad, asshole! Corey will do the turkey, something called a split breast, I believe? Shelley is doing the Chinese pork loin and I will attempt the family tradition, Scalloped Corn. Pinky's been behaved since we got here , once he saw the turkey in the freezer....you know that old joke? ha
 
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on November 25, 2016, 12:18 PM:
 
Thanks guys...enduring memories, indeed!

That was kinda the point of that hunt. I figured, either way, it was gonna be an experience to be out there in the woods!

Couple tags to fill yet, and the weather looks alot more tolerant!
 




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