This is topic I wonder.. in forum Member forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 08, 2016, 11:17 AM:
How all this is going to end up ?
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/2016/01/07/sheriff-meet-armed-protesters-discuss-ending-standoff/78435892/
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on January 08, 2016, 05:18 PM:
I think it will end up with the militia going home. The Harney County Sheriff has no authority on Federal lands. The Obama administration sued Arizona several years ago with the SCOTUS deciding in his favor.
I really don't think that anyone wants any blood shed out there. These guys have ranches to tend to and are already looking to getting back to them.
On the other hand I've personally seen where the Forest Service and the BLM have forced residents off of their properties in land grabs.
I was an OSP engineer for Contel up in Washington state. Some people requested phone service so I went out to meet with them. Their power went over federal land so the Forest Service had it cut off. I asked about running a cable to their home and the Forest Service refused the permit. When I looked into who owned the road I found that it belonged to the residents so without any further ado I buried a cable into them. The Forest Service was actually trespassing on their property. I went by there a few months later and the people and their home were gone.
I had a friend, an old hunting partner from the old days that was killed by the government when they tried to take away his property. They accused him of growing dope on his property and showed up early in the morning with a warrant to search based on an anonymous tip. His wife saw them driving up the private road and went to the door but they just broke it down. When she started screaming Don came out with a pistol in his hand and they shot him dead. They never announced who they were or that they had a warrant.
I have other true stories so none of what the BLM is up to in trying to expand the refuge surprises me.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 09, 2016, 06:28 AM:
Where can I get a briefing on what the hell this thing is about?
I fully understand concerns about government abuse of peaceful citizens. I understand overzealous enforcement. But, I don't understand, what's the issue? Control? What?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 09, 2016, 07:12 AM:
Thanks Leonard, I was wondering the same..
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on January 09, 2016, 07:47 AM:
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going-on-in-oregon-militia-take-over-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/
[ January 09, 2016, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: CrossJ ]
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on January 09, 2016, 08:15 AM:
http://www.newmediajournal.us/guest-commentary/oregon-land-fight-now-for-the-rest-of-the-story
[ January 09, 2016, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: CrossJ ]
Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 09, 2016, 11:45 AM:
Thanks for the links Geordie. I think that about sums it up.
The thing is you ain't gonna beat the feds. My understanding is the locals don't really want the Bundy's there, they would prefer to handle their issues themselves.
So we have another divide. Dunno' who if anyone is going to snap first ?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 09, 2016, 03:32 PM:
Well, if Ruby Ridge and Waco doesn't trip your bobber, then I guess we need to pay attention to our "reliable" news media which tells us that the situation in Oregon involves a bunch of right wing fruit cakes.
And, with my short attention span, I actually thought faintly negative thoughts about that dispute. Should have known; whatever the Lame Stream Media is pushing is probably complete lies.
It sounds completely believable that the Feds would railroad some innocent landowners. For instance, I know what they are doing with the East Mojave Reserve. The official policy is to discourage legitimate hunting in favor of hiking foreign tourists who might be scared of gunshots.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on January 10, 2016, 04:52 AM:
Moe: you must be talking about Don Scott. Heir to the scott paper towel fortune. I originally read about it in the WSJ. Here is another article that I could google up:
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2012/10/remembering-murder-of-donald-scott.html
I wish to add according to the WSJ the smoking gun was the Park Service had a property appraisal in hand at the time of the raid. I honestly believe the federal forfeiture laws are abused more that properly used as the writers intended. They need to be unwritten.
[ January 10, 2016, 04:58 AM: Message edited by: Aznative ]
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on January 11, 2016, 01:07 PM:
After reading the links provided by Geordie, how could anyone think that a few people marching down a small town street while carrying signs could make any kind of difference??
My tinfoil hat has a chin strap.
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on January 11, 2016, 03:30 PM:
AZ.....Yes, it was my friend, Don Scott.
I knew Don as well as anyone, I guess, and I know he was dead set against drugs. I didn't know much about his wife, Fran, except that she was a pain in the butt.
Don suddenly developed a drinking problem that made him a liability when we went hunting so I put an end to our hunting relationship. I remember we were heading out for a night calling hunt and I stopped at Newberry Springs for gas. When the truck was filled I got back in and Don was gone. I looked around for him for a while and finally found him in the tavern sopping them down. I turned the truck towards home and that was that. This was before he moved up to the big ranch. I was in Alaska when that happened. Still makes me sick.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 11, 2016, 03:46 PM:
Well, I think there's only one bar in Newberry Springs, so that narrows it down a bit. Was he a club member? Just might have heard of him, what year did he get killed? Wish I had a nickel for every time I worked a light down along old 66. I knew a couple guys that spent an entire season down around Essex trying to call in the same cat off the same hill. Other than that, fun guys, for sure; Duke was the only hunter I knew that had a new Model 70 in 225Winchester. Figure that one out.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on January 11, 2016, 04:06 PM:
Don belonged to the Pasadena chapter but never really stood out much. Not sure but I think I left the CVCA before you became a member. I know Danny didn't join until after I'd gone.
I haven't been to Newberry Springs since I moved away from Barstow to Alaska in 1974. I remember the tavern there, tho. When I was working out that way we'd grab a sandwich and a beer for lunch. Also did the same thing at the Frosty Mug in Daggett.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 11, 2016, 05:08 PM:
I joined in '68 or so? San Gabriel Chapter was started then because Orange County had a waiting list.
Speaking of Daggett, we sure wore out our welcome. We had a check in, there, I think fall, 1969? Somebody got the bright idea to throw their animals into an abandoned old car right on main street. We did it too, monkey see, monkey do. San Gabriel didn't dare to show their faces around town after that.
Good hunting. El Bee
PS although I knew Danny in HS, I didn't know that he belonged to Coast Chapter until sometime later, didn't even recognize him until he talked to me; said I was a big meanie in HS. Then, it all came back to me, we joked about it, but interestingly, never hunted together. But, like you, probably seen a lot of the same country.
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on January 11, 2016, 07:57 PM:
I joined in '64. Except for a stint working overseas in SE Asia for a season I was in the club until 1974 when I moved to Juneau. While I was in Alaska I talked to Don Carper on a frequent basis.
Back in those days I never missed a club event especially club hunts.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 12, 2016, 07:02 AM:
I didn't care much for Carper. He made a decision up at the Famosa drag strip in Bakersfield that cost us the hunt. We were one of several teams flying on that hunt, in a little 182. Brookover and Orelli were in the "Sky King Express".
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on January 12, 2016, 04:21 PM:
Funny because Carper liked to fly and hunt on the club hunts. I know that on one of the river hunts he and someone else flew to Mexico. I don't remember when it was or any of the details.
Don had an authoritarian air about him. He was chapter president when I first joined. He did me a couple of good turns over the years that I sincerely appreciated. I really didn't know him personally, tho.
I was only 19 when I joined and right after I became a member I started turning in tails. I had my bobcat and coyote pins and trophies within 3 or 4 months and was well on my way to my 100 club trophy. I was also placing in and winning hunts. Being only 19 in a club where the average age is like 30 I found some people didn't much like me. I had some run ins with some older members several times but I continued to turn in the tails. I guess to them I was just a snot nosed kid not even old enough to buy a beer.
After a few years went by and I came back from working overseas everything changed. I found that some of the club's best callers wanted to go out with me and we had a great time. Of course by that time I could buy a beer. Thumper McDowell and I became great friends and had some really fun hunts together. Pete Hofer and I went out a lot, too. He was just a great guy who kept me laughing full time. I was sorry to hear of his death and called his wife when I found out. If I had known where he was in Idaho I could've driven over to visit him. I was working in eastern Washington and got over that pretty regular.
Long, long time ago. Memories are now running through my mind like a movie.
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on January 12, 2016, 04:50 PM:
BTW.....I lived out in Barstow in '69. Seems I remember hearing about the critters left rotting in a car.
Glenn, the game warden hated the CVCA and did everything possible to stop the hunting in San Bernardino County. When he found out I was a licensed waterfowl hunting guide he took to harassing me. I set up some trespass rights on a couple of local farms and made a deal with a local motel where the hunters could stay. Nice restaurant and bar across the street. I'd pick them up and take them out to hunt doves and stay with them until they limited out or got tired. Glenn actually tried blocking my driveway to make me late.
I finally got him, tho. We were set up on a spread of goose decoys out at Harper Lake when he drove up. There was only going to be one flight of geese in for the entire day and he sat in his truck until he saw them coming. He trespassed on private property where even I couldn't get permission and sauntered into our setup running off the geese. He stood there checking my license and stamps for the umpteenth time. All he wanted to do was make sure we weren't going to kill any birds.
When I got home I sat down a wrote a letter to his employer outlining all of the things he'd been pulling. Along with a few letters from Carper and the incident with Bernie Creamer and his friends we got him busted from Captain to Lt.
I ran into him while I was out dove hunting at Helendale early one morning. I stopped to hunt before going to work in Victorville. He said we'd gotten off on the wrong foot and had noticed that he'd never found me to breaking the law and wanted to bury the hatchet. We shook hands and he left.
The funny thing was as I was getting ready to leave for work I only had 9 doves and wanted one more for a limit. One last flight came in over the tracks and I shot knocking down like 3 birds. If Glenn had checked my bag he'd have seen I was a couple of birds over the limit. I was sweating blood.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2016, 07:30 AM:
Ah yes. Helendale. THE FACILITY ! And, the riverbed. I tried catching the biggest damned Mojave Green I ever saw in that riverbed. He ducked into a huge tumbleweed....no thanks! But, would have made a great hat band!
Bernie Cramer, I liked him! He joined Covina Chapter, early 70's.
Did you ever know Swede Swenson? I understood he came from Pasadena Chapter? Almost all his pins were painted orange in the center, indicating archery kills. Impressed me.
Down Memory Lane with the old farts.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on January 13, 2016, 07:53 AM:
One thing about the Barstow area. It never lacked for rattlesnakes.
Several of us went out to hunt doves early one morning before sunup and sat out in the sagebrush in the Mojave River bed. Luckily I was sitting on the left side and my dog was out of harm's way. When the sun came up a couple of the guys shot some whitewing doves. My friend, Ken Howard and I just sat waiting and talking. I leaned over to rest on my right hand and happened to look at where my hand was going to rest. There in the sand was a sidewinder coiled up under the sand. That snake could've bitten us at any time.
I jumped up and point out the snake to Howard. He got so flustered he pointed his shotgun point blank and missed! By now I was laughing my ass off. I killed the snake and then we took a survey of the area to make sure my dog wasn't going to get bit making a retrieve.
On the days where it reached into the mid 90's and up you could drive out Barstow Road toward Lucerne Valley and catch rattlers soaking up the heat on the blacktop right at dark. Lots of Mojaves but sidewinders and speckled rattlers, too. There were summers when I had a rattlesnake encounter almost every day. Mostly sidewinders as they were common as dirt.
And Helendale had to be the Mojave Green capitol of California. A friend of mine has a horse farm out there and is constantly killing them on his property.
Just as a reminder, here's the last one I encountered;
[ January 13, 2016, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: Moe ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 15, 2016, 08:58 AM:
A postscript on a mention in the above thread concerning the militant attitude among Park Rangers in the Mojave Preserve.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/15/park-rangers-have-automatic-rifles-and-flashbangs/
That huge "preserve" used to be wide open but within the past fifteen years or so, they have piled up boulders and telephone poles across all the access roads so that there are presently only a couple roads in and out of the preserve and they very diligently monitor who goes in and who goes out. If you look like you are hunting, expect to be shadowed and stopped, weapon check, hunting license, etc. etc.
I have seen them stop rigs on the Interstate if they look like hunters, where it seems they have little, to zero jurisdiction?
Anyway, it's the anti climate on display, full force.
Good hunting. El Bee
[ January 15, 2016, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on January 15, 2016, 09:16 AM:
Here's an interesting video on the situation in Harney COunty. FBI posing as militia and harassing citizens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB6m7x3QDAg&feature=player_embedded
Our constitutional rights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T424sWq1SkE
This is part of the Sagebrush Rebellion. In Alaska it's called the Tundra Rebellion. The feds illegally own 96% of the land in Alaska.
Seems the Harney County sheriff has abandoned his responsibilities and sided with the feds. Kate Brown, our non elected governor has also sided with the feds.
I still think this will end peacefully but someone's knuckles need some rapping and it isn't us citizens.
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