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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on August 15, 2014, 08:43 AM:
Ok.............While you mean people are picking on a frail old man in that other thread, try answering this one;
"When wearing a ski mask and shopping at Wal-Mart, what three items can you purchase that will freak out the cashier the most ??"
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on August 15, 2014, 08:53 AM:
I wonder what folks would think if you carry a box of tampons with a sky mask..
I would be , WTF!
[ August 15, 2014, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 15, 2014, 10:37 AM:
so, firearms is too obvious. Hatchet, shovel and rope. There are no wrong answers; right?
edit: what the fuck is a sky mask?
[ August 15, 2014, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on August 15, 2014, 10:48 AM:
How about a King Size box ah Swisher Sweets in Ferguson Mo. Wasn't in a WalMart but it caused a "peaceful gathering in da hood wit da blackz panthas directing traffic" and ah'poohval from bawak.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 15, 2014, 11:33 AM:
If there was (physically) more room on your custom title, I would appoint you "EUBONICS DIRECTOR".
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on August 15, 2014, 12:39 PM:
Leonard came close; that's why he's in charge.
Purchase while wearing a ski mask;
(1) Condoms
(2) Duct Tape
(3) A Machete
Might as well wear an Earth First sweatshirt or something from PETA while you're at it.
Who says entertainment is expensive these days ????
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on August 15, 2014, 02:49 PM:
People Of Walmart
you're welcome ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 15, 2014, 04:19 PM:
You know, I saw this black guy at the pharmacy not long ago, in a different line and he had an obvious stain down the back of his shorts. My empathy kicked in. I also saw an old lady in the market doing a Tim Conway impression while pushing a cart. Wearing sweat pants, there was a stain right where you would expect it, if there was a "juicy fart". I know, TMI. But; there but for the grace of God, etc. Now, what do you do? I ignored, but some kind soul might whisper in her ear. Not something you even want to see, let alone have it happen. Truthfully, I have much sympathy.
What I do not have sympathy for is someone like Robin Williams. I mean, Tiburon, waterfront, money up the gazoo. My son-in-law is from there, it don't get much pricier, kind of Beverly Hills/Brentwood for northern Kalifornia. What the hell did he have to be worried about? No sympathy for that guy, I just thought he was weird, and he looks a lot like my brother.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 15, 2014, 05:59 PM:
With all due respect, Leonard, clinical depression has absolutely nothing to do with what you have in your life. You can have all the money, the big house, the awards recognizing you for what you have accomplished in your life and a family that loves you more than life itself. None of that has any relevancy to how you respond to true depression. My sister - the biggest f'in' cold hearted know it all bitch I have ever had the misfortune to know, let alone be related to - tried to equate a brief episode she had shortly after my niece was born to what my wife deals with every single day of her life. There is no comparison. Sure, some people get "the blues" because of a series of bad things that happen in their life. Others, by no fault of their own, inherit their depression because they are born with it, the same way a diabetic is born with a faulty pancreas or a heart patient is born with a bad ticker. God knows that a true depression sufferer would shed themselves of the burden if they could. They cannot.
Have you ever been around a diabetic when he needed his insulin? Their behavior becomes anything from lethargic and almost sloth-like to combative and violent. Of course, give them a shot of insulin and as soon as that insulin carries the first molecules of sugar across that membrane and into the brain, their pupils shrink from dilation and it's almost like they awaken from sleeping even though their eyes were never closed. No one ever chastises a diabetic because they need insulin to function normally. Everyone seems to understand that.
For people with depression - true depression - there is no difference. Whereas a diabetic is generally someone whose pancreas does not produce enough insulin, if at all, a truly depressed person has the same problem, except it's not insulin. It's neurotransmitting chemicals, like dopamine and serotonin.
Like a diabetic that takes his insulin, a depressed person takes their pill every day, and for the same reason. So they can carry on as normal a life as possible.
What Robin Williams had is irrelevant. How Robin Williams viewed his world, from within his own psyche, is relevant. Every single thing we do - every thought, every emotion, every opinion, and every visceral or voluntary reaction we have to the world around us as it happens in real time - is controlled by the way our brain is built, and how information is shared, exchanged and transmitted from one region of the brain to another and from one cell to another. It's a miracle that we don't have more problems than we do when you consider the potential for any one of those chemicals getting out of balance or any one of those messages being misrouted and never reaching the destination intended.
With that being said, Robin Williams was apparently in the early stages of Parkinson's disease which is a neurological brain disorder, and as such, can and will have a profound impact on your life beyond the shaking we usually associate with this disease. One such impact is acute behavioral changes, specifically depression. If the patient has never had depression, it can be bad. If they have a history of depression, multiple that "bad" by a thousand.
Williams had a long history of alcohol and drug abuse. Based upon what I have learned by having this monster leering at me eye to eye for over 25 years since I met my wife, I see what he was doing as attempts at self medicating when the conventional methods were ineffective. Sadly, that is very, very common.
For people like Williams, it becomes the only way they know they can escape the pain and the horror of their world.
I have been lucky. Having walked with my wife through three serious episodes, two requiring hospitalization, she has found herself faced with the decision that Williams faced on numerous occasions. There is no way I can rationalize what she was experiencing because there is nothing rational about how it makes them feel. In her case, she chose between conceding to the illness and fighting her way back to the surface, fighting for her life. She chose the latter and only because we have found excellent doctors to manage her medication have we found a sense of safety and security in our lives again. At the same time, it exists. It lives here in our house with us and we know, from experience, that we have to keep constant vigil to keep it at bay.
In short, Williams simply hit his limit and my heart hurts for him.
Sorry for the preaching, but this is one soap box I keep close at hand. Too few people advocate on behalf of the truly depressed, and those that don't are ignorant and grossly uninformed about that which they espouse their opinions and judgments. Fact is, there is a very thin line between a negative opinion and a too harsh judgment when you're on the receiving end.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 15, 2014, 07:12 PM:
quote:
those that don't are ignorant and grossly uninformed about that which they espouse their opinions and judgments.
Lance, thanks for your opinion. It doesn't change my "grossly uninformed" opinion, unfortunately.
Put me down as not very sympathetic, (or impressed) with the mental health racket, the PhD's that release killers deemed no longer a threat, who then commit additional serious offenses. In other words, seems like a good number of psychiatrists are just as nutty as their patients. In fact, I don't see how they can claim these mental patients are ever cured?
I don't dispute that people become depressed, it's the reasons; and frankly, nobody knows the reasons. If they can be reprogramed, that's great. If not, maybe they should be locked up as a danger to themselves and others? But, that all changed, witness all the homeless that should be institutionalized, but there are laws that protect the wackos and put the general public at risk.
But, not to get sidetracked, my beef is suicide, not depression, per se. I think it's just about the most selfish thing a person can do to their family.
Good hunting El Bee
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on August 16, 2014, 03:21 PM:
I agree...with both of you. Suicide is an easy way out, the pain lies with those left behind.
That said, depression, other cerebral disorders, and suicide as a way out have been around as long as prostitution. Might be a coward's way out, but it IS a way out. I wish people were stronger. One of my best friend's son took his own life some years ago, causing my friend unfathomable grief, pain, and guilt.. I promised him at the funeral, if I see that kid first, I'm gonna punch him right in the nose.
Posted by booger (Member # 3602) on August 18, 2014, 11:59 AM:
I empathize with folks that have depression issues…I can’t imagine what that is like either going through it, or going through life with someone struggling with those challenges like Lance is.
My problem lies with the drug companies. It is a damn shame that for every depression medicine that is supposed to help people, the list of side effects is insane! It is unfortunate that some of those side effects have to do with thoughts of suicide…which in turn gives big Pharma another excuse to create a drug to cure the side effect, and on and on and on…
Suicide has touched me as well. In 1992, my piece of crap brother in law went on the rampage and shot my wife’s sister then killed himself. My wife and I raised her 4 sons, (3 were from a different father), over a 7 year period.
Those boys were a daily reminder of what happened—two of them watched their mom die and watched him take his life. I believe, as most have said, suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness. The pieces that needed to be put back together and the human carnage, at least in our case, it created, were beyond my comprehension, and for the most part, still are. If he wanted out of life, he could have taken care of it, and left her sister out of it.
I look back now and think about the stuff we went through and wonder how my wife and I both survived it, both on a personal basis, not to mention our marriage.
For the most part, the nephews have done well, but I always wonder how much better they would have done with their mother in their lives. They have gone through some struggles that I know were a direct result of the trauma they lived through.
Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on August 18, 2014, 02:14 PM:
I'm not convinced that Robin Williams died of suicide. See David Carradine. Look up his movie World's Greatest Dad. Look at the circumstances, the odds that he would take his own life 1 in 1 billion IMO.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on August 18, 2014, 02:14 PM:
Here's my take on depression.
Depression is a natural emotion, same as happiness. You can't have one, without the other. Without having felt depressed, pained, or anguished, one may never learn to truly savor what feeling truly happy is all about...
Not trying to imply that there are not clinical, physiological precursors to depression. But I do think that those cases are few, and far between.
Anymore, it seems like the emotion of feeling depressed has slowly become categorized as a "disease" , and I don't agree with that one bit. All of a sudden, someone goes thru a tough time emotionally, and instead of working thru that tough time, they get diagnosed as "clinically depressed". And all of a sudden, that person now has a figurative crutch to lean on, after all they are diseased! And, all of a sudden, a doctor is there to recommend some magic "feel better pill" to alter that natural emotion by leveling the highs and the lows of natural human feelings. Don't agree with that one bit, either...
As for Robin Williams, that guy can rot where he lies. Led a privileged life, and made his own decision to recreate with narcotics and other drugs that alter a human's natural brain function. So, his "clinical depression" could very well have been self-induced by frying his dopamine receptors on the " fun stuff".
As for Parkinson's, look at Michael J Fox. That poor dude has been fucked up for how long? Did he decide to kill himself???
Fuck no, he's a fighter, and chose to make due with what he's been blessed with, not wallow in what he's been cursed with...
Sorry for feeling unsympathetic, but I'm jaded. After seeing my 5yr old nephew stricken with terminal cancer, and fight it tooth & nail for a whole year, in&out of hospitals, poked, prodded, tested on like a lab rat, yet STILL MAINTAIN A POSITIVE ATTITUDE AND A SMILE while he obviously suffered.
And to see how losing a child has forever destroyed a part of my sister that nothing can fix, and to a lesser extent, the emotional toll to my family as a whole, I ain't gonna feel bad for some rich, privileged drug abusing funny man who fuckin' wimped out and killed himself.
Fuck that, and fuck Mrs Doubtfire.
[ August 18, 2014, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on August 18, 2014, 02:54 PM:
Eight years ago, I found my father laying on the concrete patio with what I thought was a wound to the head from falling down, until I found the pistol. I am not going to go into the details.
Anyways, Pop was stricken with a couple cancers. I would feed him thru a catheter in his stomach because he could not eat or drink, or swallow. I also gave him his morphine to help with the pain. He was treated with chemo and radiation. My poor dad was going thru hell. Plus the medical bills were cutting into the saving he and my mother worked and saved all their live for.
No note or warning was left or given. But I honestly believe that he did it for several reasons, to end the pain, not be a burden on anyone, pick his own way to check out, and to leave enough of their savings left for my mother to live off of. And believe me I have thought about it a lot. My Pop was not a selfish man, and I hope I can be at least half the man that old WWII combat medic was.
I think I understand more about the subject than I did 8 years ago. At first I didn't want to tell anyone how he died. And dealing with what I saw weighed on me. I've seen dead people before, but seeing someone you love, and the gruesome image that sticks in your head takes a while to get over.
Anyways, I think I've said all I will say about it
[ August 18, 2014, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]
Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on August 18, 2014, 03:14 PM:
Dan, that would be truly horrifying and hard to get over. I have done a 180 in my opinion of suicide. For people with a true mental, medical depression issue it's sad and unfortunate. For the young it's truly tragic.
For those of sound mind and body that make a 'decision' to take their life on their own terms, I support it. It beats slowly crumbling to death or being smashed by a bus.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 18, 2014, 03:48 PM:
Some well thought out responses, I appreciate every one. Perhaps Fred comes closer to my attitude? I understand the pill doctor approach to depression and the fact that every single mass murderer in the past twenty years was on some psychotrophic drug of some sort. Also, these "bipolar" types seem to do everything they can to get off their meds because "they don't like the way they make them feel". Try NORMAL.
I sincerely appreciate the motivations behind Dan's father's actions. I am inclined to give a guy like that a pass.
But, getting back to the bizarre "humor" of Robin Williams, which I always thought it indicated he was a couple bricks short of a load. For sure, he was very different. As in, not normal. No really, some of the extemporaneous monologue coming out of his mouth always struck me as damned near un human. Best I can do as an explanation, just a very weird dude. The whole concept; funny man has depression? Just doesn't work for me.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on August 18, 2014, 04:29 PM:
Maybe there is some selfishness in some, some sort of cowardess in others..but for some people it is practical...stop the (very real) pain and go out on your own terms, and at the same time, save the resources for the spouse.
9 years ago my grandmother (who recently passed) called me at work, which was about a half mile away) and was screaming on the phone that my grandfather hung himself. I hauled ass over there and sure enough, he was hanging in the shower by an extension cord. She was sitting on the floor sobbing.
I took him off the cord and layed him down, checked for signs, did some cpr, but he was gone.
He had depression and some other physical illnesses, and was just tired. He also felt he was a burden on everyone. Found out too that his insurance had no suicide clause so...
He was a WWII Marine and very well respected.
When people say they will never do something like that, I just don't think they understand what pain can drive a person to do.
Mark
[ August 18, 2014, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on August 18, 2014, 05:08 PM:
Ten or so years ago I was prescribed some medication, one of the side effects was that it made me extraordinarily depressed. I took it one time and never again. The depression that it caused was crazy. It lasted about 12 hours and it was the longest 12 hours of my life. It's almost impossible to describe the feeling but the term worthless comes pretty close. An all-consuming feeling of despair. I can only imagine that is how a clinically depressed person feels like ALL the time but they can't just snap out of it once the meds wear off. With no end in sight, I can see how someone could go down that road.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on August 19, 2014, 03:52 AM:
Just to clarify, I was keeping my opinion strictly to the topic of Robin Williams.
Didn't want that to be misunderstood and have that harsh reaction applied across the board, or to anyone's family members, in particular. Circumstances are notably different. When the time comes, I certainly wouldn't wish to become a burden on my family, so can empathize and even agree with, an alternative solution to being that burden...
Posted by JP (Member # 4095) on August 19, 2014, 03:26 PM:
“God doesn't punish people who take their lives. They need him more than anyone else." - General George Patton
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on August 19, 2014, 04:19 PM:
Leonard, I guess you illustrate exactly where your opinion and mine diverge. You consider suicide to be the most horrific example of selfishness one person can exhibit. I, by comparison, agree with that assessment - yes it is selfish, that a person does not or is assumed to not be willing to consider the pain he will leave for his or her survivors - except that I allow myself, or encourage myself, to look beyond the superficial and try to understand not just the suicide and the selfishness of the act, but WHY exactly would someone do such a thing? A healthy, normal person just doesn't kill themselves for no reason. Therefore, what might be the reasons for these terrible acts? There are as many reasons as their are suicide victims and God only knows what their reasons actually are.
Although most people who kill themselves wanted to kill themselves, I seriously doubt that they truly WANTED to kill themselves. Rather, they may not have necessarily wanted to die in so much as they sincerely wanted to end the pain they experience every moment of every day of their lives. I can only guess that if they had a way to quell the demons, they would jump at the chance.
As I began to point out in my first post, some people experience depression due to a difficult situation or a painful life event from which they simply don't bounce back quickly. Some experience an irretractable hormone shift following childbirth. Others are biologically predisposed to depression due to the way their brains are built and the way their bodies process and react to the multitude of neurochemicals that are produced, in often insufficient quantities, at one part of their body to produce a result or augment a function elsewhere. For these people, clinical depression is, in fact, regarded to be a disease process the same as cancer, heart disease, or diabetes.
(Side bar: I will tell you now, just like I told my demomic fat assed sister when she publicly chastised my wife for playing people with her depression by saying I was trying to play myself of as an "expert" on the subject, well, I am. I didn't ask to know what I know about depression and mood disorders. If it weren't for the fact that it is a part of my life, through my wife, and that it lives in my house 24/7/365. I would rather know nothing about it at all. But, if I plan to stay married to this incredible woman, I need to understand her, and this, and I do. In fact, I have gone nose to nose with some of her doctors and ran circles around what they think they know from books and what I know for a fact because I've lived it for twenty-five years. But, I digress.)
My wife, as an example, is one such person. She would love nothing more than to not have to take medication each day. She hates the stuff and its side effects. She has one pill for "this", and two more just to make the side effects bearable, but if she wants to live a "normal life", whatever the hell that is, she has to take the meds. She has tried to back off them to see what happens and the results are not pretty, exactly as it would be if someone taking medicine to maintain their blood pressure stopped taking that drug, or a diabetic just said "fuck it" to his insulin. If you were to meet her, you would never know she had a problem, the meds and her doctors are that good, and for that, I thank God every day.
None of us know a goddamned thing about Robin Williams' medical history or what he had been diagnosed and treated for or not. Yet, there are those amongst us who eagerly judge him because they think that because he had money, and fame, and everything a guy would want, he could just have pushed on through like a real man. That's like saying someone who dies of cancer would have lived if they just hadn't given up so quickly. To me, it's not apples and oranges. It's ignorance.
I have said it before and I will say it here and now, show me someone who thinks that people who suffer from depression are weak and just malingering to get attention, and I'll show you an ignorant sonofabitch that need to either get educated, or shut the hell up.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 19, 2014, 05:46 PM:
Lance, I choose to not take your comments personal, as I easily could. If you think knowing so much makes your opinion superior to mine, you are mistaken. I know you tend to be a drama queen about personal problems, but please try to be just a little more careful with the insinuations. I didn't attack you or your "opinion" and I will thank you to accord me the same courtesy.
I'm sorry to know about your wife's problems, but quit confusing her "clinical depression" with suicide and all the motivation that drives people to commit such a selfish act.
As you said, and I agree, many of them didn't actually want to do the deed. They usually have a history of attempts which many authorities believe to be attention getting devices, but sometimes it's accidental or they miscalculate what could be an overdose, a different type of mental illness, drug addiction.
But in the meantime, I have no intention to shut the fuck up with my half baked opinion. Since it is my opinion and I am entitled to it, just as you are, within the confines of this little HM island of free speech on the Internet.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on August 20, 2014, 04:52 AM:
quote:
None of us know a goddamned thing about Robin Williams' medical history or what he had been diagnosed and treated for or not. Yet, there are those amongst us who eagerly judge him because they think that because he had money, and fame, and everything a guy would want, he could just have pushed on through like a real man. That's like saying someone who dies of cancer would have lived if they just hadn't given up so quickly. To me, it's not apples and oranges. It's ignorance.
I have said it before and I will say it here and now, show me someone who thinks that people who suffer from depression are weak and just malingering to get attention, and I'll show you an ignorant sonofabitch that need to either get educated, or shut the hell up.
Hey cdog, ya ever stop to ponder the notion that, those you'd label "ignorant sonofabitches" might actually HAVE experienced depression, yet chose to climb up the path toward empowerment & happiness, over sliding down the hill of self-pity & medication???
One more thing.
Comparing the unavoidable death sentence of terminal cancer, to that of a recreational drug user's deliberate suicide, is some warped logic, AT BEST.
To that, I say:
Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on August 21, 2014, 05:32 AM:
Robin Williams died of auto erotic asphyxiation anyway. He didn't commit suicide.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 21, 2014, 08:25 AM:
You mean like David Carradine, the Kung Fu guy in Hong Kong?
Wasn't he naked, making it with a call girl and a rope around his neck to make his dick hard? Or something like that?
But, Robin Williams was fully clothed? They didn't say if his zipper was down, or not? Still, what would be the purpose as in some self gratification, rather than the usual depressed state suicide?
Hey! I just read he has a 25 million dollar estate in Napa that is for sale. Lance? Interested?
So, as our in house authority on these issues, what's your take on, "auto erotic asphyxiation"? Is Chris full of it?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on August 21, 2014, 09:18 AM:
Leonard, run to Wikipedia and look up Robin Williams' film, World's Greatest Dad. Life is truly imitating art...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 21, 2014, 10:55 AM:
Too much work. Why not just tell me?
Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on August 21, 2014, 12:46 PM:
World's Greatest Dad- Taken from Wikipedia: Lance Clayton (Robin Williams) is a single father and high-school English teacher. He dreams of becoming a famous writer, but his previous novels have all been rejected by publishers. His 15-year-old son, Kyle (Sabara), is a sex-obsessed underachiever who despises everyone around him, especially his father.[4] Kyle is a student at the school where Lance teaches an unpopular poetry class. His only friend is Andrew, a fellow student who spends his evenings at the Claytons' house trying to avoid his alcoholic mother. Kyle's consistently poor academic performance and vile behavior gain the attention of the school principal, who advises Lance that Kyle should transfer to a special-needs school. Lance meanwhile is in a non-committal relationship with a younger teacher named Claire, who is spending time with a fellow teacher named Mike who runs a more successful class than Lance. On nights when Claire cancels their dates and he is all alone, Lance bonds with his elderly neighbor.
One night, after Kyle and Lance spend an evening with Claire, Lance (Williams) discovers that Kyle has died in an autoerotic asphyxiation accident in his bedroom. To avoid embarrassing his son, he stages Kyle’s death as a suicide. He writes a suicide note on Kyle’s computer and hangs his son’s body in the closet. A classmate later obtains the suicide note from police records and publishes it in the school newspaper. The note strikes a chord with the students and faculty, and suddenly many students claim to have been friends with Kyle and are touched by how deep and intelligent he shows himself to be in his writings.
Enjoying the attention his writing is finally receiving, Lance decides to write and publish a phony journal that was supposedly written by his son before his death. Kyle becomes something of a post-mortem cult phenomenon at the school, and soon Lance begins to receive the adoration that he has always desired. Andrew finds Kyle’s suicide note and journals as highly uncharacteristic based on Kyle's personality when he was alive, but Lance brushes him off when Andrew confronts him. The journal soon attracts the attention of book publishers and Lance lands a television appearance on a nationally broadcast talk show. The school principal then decides to rename the school library in Kyle’s honor.
[ August 21, 2014, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Chris S ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 21, 2014, 05:03 PM:
Geezus, sorry I asked. Sounds like a movie Liberals would pay to watch more than once. Gag me!
But, thanks Chris.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on August 21, 2014, 06:10 PM:
Oh hell LB...You made me LOL for real!! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
That was funny...
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