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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on July 27, 2012, 03:06 PM:
USO 5x25, Leonard tell us about it! Please...
I have always used German Zeiss & Leupolds for day & night hunting . Do i need to update?
I Fixed it
[ July 27, 2012, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Prune Picker ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 27, 2012, 03:16 PM:
I would wait a while on that, it's not even mounted as yet. USO rings are $250 and the base is $140, none of which I have, yet.
The scope is 5X25, but it's not for hunting, tactical games.
Good hunting. Lima Bravo
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on July 27, 2012, 04:46 PM:
I had been talking to a guy who asked me about a 5 x 15 Night Force scope, which i also know nothing about. Sorry for my error.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 27, 2012, 06:54 PM:
Hey, no need for an apology. I'm kinda excited about it, can't wait to try it at a thousand.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 29, 2012, 07:22 AM:
I'm playing with the 3.5 to 15 Nightforce with the velocity reticle and zero stop on my 22x47. I'm liking it.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on July 29, 2012, 03:12 PM:
Zero stop with repeatability along w/ Mil adjustments for Mil type reticles get my attention these days.
I have used target knobs for years but for some reason never liked them on a hunting rifle. Seems i always got lost twisting them so i just ignored them unless shooting at paper.
Who makes the most accurate zero stop scopes? All biased opinions appreciated (by me).
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2012, 04:01 PM:
For the guy that doesn't like to twist knobs, I think the Horus reticle would be an option, unless, like me, you dislike clutter.
This SN3 has a 35mm main tube with quite a bit of elevation clicks. The 34mm option is supposed to be stronger, if you are interested in pounding nails with it? One thing you can depend on, people have opinions about optics.
This thing will not be set up for coyotes....maybe? It's a solution for long range targets, gongs and such.
Good hunting. LB
edit: yes, opinions. I have never warmed up to Nightforce. I can't say why, EXACTLY, but I just don't like them.
edit: my 1911 Picatinni rail is still on backorder. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
edit: a Horus reticle in this scope is a $400 option. <Yikes>
[ July 29, 2012, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on July 29, 2012, 06:32 PM:
I messed with a Shepperd scope years ago. First impression didn't impress me. Next up was Leupold Mil Dot & converting mils to inches or vice a versa was (is?) a headache for me, throw in black lines going everywhere (Shepperd) probably caused a paradox to my thinking while looking thru a scope. So i went back to the old standby Leupold std. duplex for comfort.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2012, 06:38 PM:
Well, you know, even with a 2nd focal plane scope an a duplex, you can still get a lot of information if you know the dimensions of the width of the heavy crosshairs and the narrow crosshairs and the width of the narrow crosshairs. At specific magnification, but if you know your scope, (as Cronk might say) you don't need a high dollar rangefinder.
Good hunting. El Be
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on August 10, 2012, 06:05 PM:
LB, any news/update on your new scope?
I have heard all kinds of good things about the new glass, but i haven't ever handled any of US Optics products.
Leupold's new VX6 series (1.1 x 6) has me thinking i could use a new scope, but i haven't seen any of them either. I'm aware your new scope is probably in another class over the leupold but i do a lot of night shooting and use 1.5x5's a bunch.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 10, 2012, 06:47 PM:
Actually, what they tell me is that the Tpal option on my scope causes a very slight reduction in brightness under low light conditions. Well, everybody wants the brightest scope in the world and this thing looks pretty bright, to me, but you really cannot tell unless you line up on a coyote, at night, and he's way out there. This, I have not done, still don't have the picatinni rail and then maybe I could try it. But, I still have a lot of load development ahead of me before it's operational.
As far as hunting at night, my best night scope is a 3X12X56 Kahles. I just don't see how this ten year old scope can be improved on? Damn, maybe it's fifteen years old? It's a steel scope, since then, they have been making them with aluminum for quite some time. They actually solder the scope to the rings, I have the information brochure somewhere on how to do it. That's hardcore!
I read recently that Kahles is the oldest telescopic sight manufacturer in the world.
Good hunting. Lima Bravo
PS one thing about this USO scope, it's a friggin' tank! and, It's big. For this application, it doesn't matter how much it weighs or how massive it is, but take my word for it, it's big, and impressive. I think they claim it weighs 2½ pounds?
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on August 10, 2012, 07:25 PM:
The best (brightest&clearest) scopes i have ever looked thru and hunted with is a German Zeiss Diatal-C 4x32mm and a Khales 2.5x?mm. Day or night i had "super vision". I'm kinda of he opinion that the newer lead free scopes are not any better (yet?) than the old german/austrian glass.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 10, 2012, 10:50 PM:
The soldered rings I mentioned are ONE PIECE! That sort of scared me, removing the ocular and objective lenses to slip on the rings. Nah, I pass. It's a damned good scope, just as it is.
Sure wish the damned 1911 rail would get here!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on August 11, 2012, 01:16 PM:
Is the size & weight of the scope the reason for the solid mounting? I am looking at a "KKAHLES WEN" HELLA 39L2 3x9,26mm(tube dia) steel tube scope. It weighs about 22oz's, and has been a pain in the butt to keep from moving in the mounts since day one. Now the reticle in it shifts when i turn the power up or down, probably due to the recoil & less than solid mounting. plus the fact it was mounted with #6 screws.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 11, 2012, 01:23 PM:
Sounds like something ain't right, that shouldn't happen and I do not think it has anything to do with solid rings. The one piece rings are something for extreme African or Indian hunting in the bush far from repairs, etc. The only reason I mentioned it is because my scope is steel, not aluminum and soldering it to steel rings with silver solder is an option. Basically, it is a qualified gunsmith application, not for a hobbyist. If you have anything that moves, send it back, that's not something anybody should tolerate for any reason. Besides that, what is it with 26mm rings? Are they one inch or 26mm?
Good hunting. Lima Bravo
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on August 11, 2012, 01:36 PM:
The scope is pure European, an older 1970-80's style. The tube dia. is 26mm vs the 1" tube used by american scopes. I have called a couple of scope repair shops to see if it can be fixed and was told parts are no longer available. No gripes from me, its just an out of date scope.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 11, 2012, 03:33 PM:
I don't know how much satisfaction you might get, but I would try this guy as I think he's well connected.
Ken Pratt
Owner
Khaybes LLC
(208) 476-0600
kahlesusa@gmail.com
Good hunting. LB
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on March 30, 2013, 05:32 AM:
Leonard,
Is there an update/review on this scope?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 30, 2013, 09:36 AM:
You know, I have not shot it enough to really talk. I don't have any negative impressions, thus far.
It is sitting on a Howa 243Ackley with a 30" straight 1.125" Shillen and a McMillan Tooley bench stock.
I just haven't had the time to do much more than get it zeroed, much less load development. I'm using the Berger 105 Hibred. One of these days, I will clear the board and get serious with it. Maybe. Just to see what it can do.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on March 30, 2013, 07:30 PM:
OK.
Next,is the Kahles you mention(favorite night scope)similar to this one(other than 50mm vs 56MM).
http://swfa.com/Kahles-Helia-KX-KXi-Riflescopes-C3946.aspx
All comments on this scope appreciated.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 30, 2013, 08:01 PM:
Kahles makes a damned good scope. The one in your link is a 1" and a 50mm objective with a second focal plane reticle.
That's substantially different from what I have, which is 30mm and first focal plane, and a 56mm objective. I would guess you light transmission is noticeably better, at least as applies to hunting at night.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on March 30, 2013, 08:12 PM:
OK, thanks. I've spent 2 weeks trying to decide on a scope and have gotten nowhere except confused. Life is too complicated now days.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 30, 2013, 10:39 PM:
For day time runners or night hunting a scope with a 30mm tubes is the route to go. Gathers more light and makes it a little easier to pick up your target...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 31, 2013, 08:16 AM:
Tom Moore had a scope made for Olympic running boar competition that was the cat's ass for running coyotes. Too bad he lost it in the fire that destroyed his mansion. But the new one he built is equally impressive. We hunted together a month ago but I didn't notice what scope he was using?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 31, 2013, 10:49 AM:
Can you give any details on the scope Leonard. What was different about it?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 31, 2013, 12:06 PM:
The reticle. Had posts on both sides of the crosshairs for putting it right on their nose, for any normal runaway. I seen him pull off some Vic Carlson type shots with that scope. I think he said they were three thousand dollars?
Good hunting. El Bee
Just think, Vic does it with Simmons White Tail scopes!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 31, 2013, 12:24 PM:
PS, I think there is a turret that moves the posts in and out depending on range and speed? (Running Boar Scope)
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on March 31, 2013, 01:02 PM:
Like many things unfortunately,'running targets',running reticles,just plain shooting at running things is a near lost art.A damn shame.All kids should be given a 22,a brick of ammo and shipped somewhere(wyoming,N or S Dakota,western Mn,wherever)to shoot running Jacks for a week in the Spring.When I grew up it was an art and good shooting kids could make spending $$ Sundays at the range fleecing old geezers out of cash on the running deer target.(every range had them-some just the month before deer season)
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/03/running-target.html
Now it's 'unethical' on some idiot boards to shoot 'runners'-statements usually coming from turret turtles that shoot at anything 1000 yds away in wind and feel perfectly 'ethical'.
A 'google'on running boars would turn up special reticles I'm sure.Think Premier Reticles used to make them.
http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/50590-b-nickel-marburg-l-7-12x-e-d.html
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 31, 2013, 01:37 PM:
I looked into it Leonard and your right the Europe made scope has two adjustable posts, but is low powered and has a set paralex of 50 mm.
Could buy one in the states for 400.00 or 1000.00 in Europe.
Diyi is also correct about Premier reticle makeing one simular..
Leupold also has a hog reticle out but again its in a low powered scope and there reticle is non-adjustable...
A friend from the "Winter riflemen group" had some scopes made up by some scope maker to do simular.. I believe his had hash marks or dots simular to the mil-dots but are spaced according to a coyotes speed. I thought they where a bit cluttered so I never tried one when offered to..
Been useing a Leupold 30mm tube with the var. reticle which has windage dots and can also be used for lead on the longer shots but in most situations I just use the center cross-hair.
Same canbe said for the Nikon coyote reticle, just use the edge of the circle for a lead point..
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on March 31, 2013, 01:48 PM:
Good info here, i am a proponent of low powered variable power scopes mounted as low as possible on a hunting rifle. Tom recently bought a 1x6 Leupold VX6 scope and says it is a very good scope (appx 800+ $$$$). Maybe he will chime in with a report.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 03, 2013, 12:17 PM:
That 1-6X is the first Leupy in a while that holds some interest. I'd look forward to hear more of what Tom thinks about his!
DIYI, don't know if ya know, but Premier has been making their own line of scopes for a few years now. Pretty high end shit...
quote:
For day time runners or night hunting a scope with a 30mm tubes is the route to go. Gathers more light and makes it a little easier to pick up your target...
Tim, could you elaborate on that, please?
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 03, 2013, 01:33 PM:
I don't have a lot to say about the 1-6 yet but here's what I've found so far.
Mine has the firedot which at first I thought was a joke but it is daylight bright and has a feature that turns it off if the scope remains motionless for 5 minutes, pick it up and it comes right back on. This has made me rethink my Aimpoint Micro cause its far more versatile.
The glass is better than my MK4 scopes and the field of view is 3 times that of their 1.5-5. Turrets were repeatable there's 20 MOA per turn. I think there's 16 on the vx-3 line. They are CDS compatable and you get a free custom dial but I ordered mine and it came in within the week. However it did not have a zero stop as advertised. I called em and they had some issues they were working on for a new design and to call back in 6 weeks, they'd send me the new one free of charge as well.
There was some talk about true 1x but this one is 1.1 and as far as I know, there is no true 1x variable out there. Shooting irons through it is a no go as I expected but another guy wanted to know so it was tried. He wanted to use his irons for the hoser targets in 3 gun but it has parrallex like all scopes.
It's a bit bigger than what I expected but it is a nice scope. I will run it when I get time but initial impressions caused me to think about another one to replace the Aimpoint.
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 03, 2013, 03:40 PM:
Good to hear you like the glass Tom.Darn near pulled the trigger on this one yesterday.
http://swfa.com/Leupold-2-12x42-VX-6-30mm-Riflescope-P49442.aspx
If it came in their varmint reticle I would have for sure-assuming SWAFA liked my proposed 'trade'. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 03, 2013, 03:42 PM:
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For day time runners or night hunting a scope with a 30mm tubes is the route to go. Gathers more light and makes it a little easier to pick up your target...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim, could you elaborate on that, please?
I don't have every brand,size scope thats out there so I'm going by what I do have on hand at the time. I tested about 6 different brands that have a Variable power settings and one fixed 10X scope with obj. dia. from 40mm,42mm and 50mm. and 3 scopes with 30mm tubes with the rest at 1" dia..
Its not some scientific test but just a test for my own use..
I placed a orange/white target on a wall about 25' away and then lined all the scopes I used for the test on a table with all power settings set at 10X to match my fixed 10X scope so everything was equal as far as the power setting.
As for being able to pick up the target sooner 2 0f the 30mm tubes worked better over the 1" as two of the 30mm tubed scopes have a larger dia. eye piece, about like haveing a T.V. with a little bigger picture tube. Also by looking at the target you gained about 2 squares ( 1" squares)up and down and left to right with the 30mm tubes.
A scope set at a lower setting will give you more field of view at a 100 yds vrs. a higher setting but will take you longer to pick up a target due to the smaller eye piece lens.. You follow so far??
For light gathering capability I used the same set up but just turned off the lights and used what little light was left from an entrance going up-stairs and a window covered with a blanket behind me. Once again the 30mm tubes did a better job and the only neg. I could find was in the reticle on one of the scopes, it was to thin.
So to sum it all up if I wanted a scope for night use or day time runners I would go with one with a 30mm tube, the largest eye piece lens with a objective lens 42mm or larger, med to heavey cross hairs and good or great glass.
I tested a fixed 4X scope with a 30mm obj. and did'nt gain anything as far as light gathering or picking up on a target sooner..
Like I said I don't have every brand or size scope out there so another persons Mileage may vary...
I want to set up a few rifles for night hunting next season so I may go out some night and do a little in the field tests to see what works best for me useing just the moon light or a red lense spot light.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 03, 2013, 03:48 PM:
Diyi take a look at the SS scopes the fixed power scopes are pretty affordable and work very well. They also have some var. power ones out now but could be a little more money...
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 03, 2013, 04:07 PM:
Yes,some darn nice 10 power fixed for easy money.And the debate between first and second focal plane becomes irrelevant with 'fixed'.Came close on them as well.They get good reviews on the 'Hide' and elsewhere but,especially this year,we get lots of foggy,hazy days and I do turn down to very low powers then.So...as I said,life is too complicated nowadays,or at least i seem to make it that way.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 03, 2013, 04:57 PM:
I've had the 10X SS since they first came out and used it as my primary hunting scope ever since. I have a Kenton dial on it and use it quite often dialing up and down and still have'nt had any issues with mine, very reliable and I paid less than 400.00 for it.. It makes a fine calling or hunting scope in open country..
I also like the 10X and have most of my var. set to 10X as well.. For up close jump shooting I've found it can be a little too much at times and usually have to let the coyote run out aways before I take a shot.
Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on April 03, 2013, 05:24 PM:
well shit. once again, i don't believe Tims "tests". anybody that has shot rifles alot should have ZERO problems throwing up a 1" tubed scope and have it on the animal. runners or not!!
and i've shot 1000's of critters with a strait x hair.
to much shit on scopes nowdays to be "Tacticool".
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 03, 2013, 05:57 PM:
quote:
i've shot 1000's of critters with a strait x hair.
Been hunting with TT... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Sure a straight X cross hair has accounted for many kills by many hunters but there are better ways to get it done and with far fewer animals shot in the azz....
[ April 03, 2013, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by KaBloomR (Member # 4252) on April 03, 2013, 06:09 PM:
I tried a 1x on my muzzleloader for one range session because that is all we are allowed to use for hunting. Made my 100 yard target look like it was 200 yards away....
Went back to open sights.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 03, 2013, 07:07 PM:
I'm too simple minded I guess, I'd rather dial it up and kill it with a standard duplex. All those other crosshairs and dots get too confusing.
That's also something about the Firedot, it's just a dot in the center. Push a button and its on if you want it.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 03, 2013, 07:54 PM:
DiYi, are you looking to upgrade or just adding to the collection? I have waited a long time for Leupold to "finish what they started". The older VX7 had some very good glass, but friends have told me they had some focus issues at different powers & return to zero isues with the dials. I (as i have said many times) am looking too add a scope or two to my collection IF the issues the VX7 line have been solved. Keep us informed, thanks.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 03, 2013, 09:19 PM:
quote:
I'm too simple minded I guess, I'd rather dial it up and kill it with a standard duplex. All those other crosshairs and dots get too confusing.
I agree Tom and use the dial up when ever I can but only have the kenton dials on two of my scopes.. On the same note I'm not affraid to try anything new that may up my game..
One thing about dialing in the distance for a shot is you have to have a live target thats willing to stand around long enough for you to get dialed in to begin with..
I've had a Luepold with a Var. reticle for some time just did'nt have the right cal. to use it on till this season when I picked up the 22-250 savage.. After useing this scope for part of the season I find it to be the cats azz and is'nt all cluttered up or not as bad as others.. No dialing required just point and shoot useing one of the hash marks/dots..
Two members of the group I hunt with that do alot of jump shooting have been useing the Leupold Boone and Crockett reticle on there 243's and if you would talk to them they would tell you its upped there game as well. In most cases they have jumped a coyote thats up and moveing and they just make a rough guess of the distance and go with that mark on the scope and also use the windage marks for lead and then take a shot and make a adjustment if the first shot is a miss, no big deal.. After useing them for a short time its not that big of a deal and everything just falls into place...
I won a Nikon coyote special a few years back and ended up selling it as at the time it was limited for its use, but Nikon has since come out with a ballistic program so you can calibrate it for other cal.s. I liked the scope along with the reticle so I bought another one this winter and put it on a 221 F.B. and shot half inch groups with it. This scope has a little less clutter than the Luepold var. reticle and you can use the edge of the circles on the reticle for lead or windage..
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 03, 2013, 10:00 PM:
I'm all about trying new things that might make my job easier. I've had a few mil dot scopes and didn't like em, have a Leupold with the long range dots and find them too generic but I barely notice them. I've also had a few B&C reticles, never could figure out which line to use in a hurry and sometimes forgot when I had the time.
So now I'm kinda liking the custom CDS dials. I can hit a few landmarks with the range finder before the stand and dial it up if I need to. But when things get sporty, I just fall back to what I know, the standard duplex.
I do admire those who can use something like the Horris graphics chart on the run but it ain't me.
[ April 03, 2013, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 03, 2013, 10:32 PM:
quote:
I do admire those who can use something like the Horris graphics chart on the run but it ain't me.
Thats a hell of a system they got I thought real serious about getting one when I first heard about them.. Only thing was I don't use a big enough gun in order to see the ground hits. I see the price has really gone up on them as well.. Scopes were around 500-800.00 at one time..
I found when just out calling or sitting in a sniper position waiting for a coyote to come running by I could get by with useing the same equipement for both but now I'm back out in the field with copper and found I need to make some changes in what I use which is'nt a bad thing as long as the wife does'nt find out.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 04, 2013, 06:56 AM:
Tom, thanks for the breakdown. That Leupy sounds like an ideal machine gun optic!
Tim, so you are attributing the results of your "tests" to be a direct result of tube diameter?
Had it ever dawned on you that the results you noticed were more a factor of lens size and the relationship between objective and ocular, and had nothing at all to do with the scope's tube size?
Also, did you bother to determine the exit pupil value of each scope at a given power before 'testing' them against each other in low light conditions?
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 04, 2013, 09:53 AM:
Prune Picker,
Add.I have a new build about ready and the scope is for that.will post my decision-if I ever make one.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 04, 2013, 11:55 AM:
quote:
Had it ever dawned on you that the results you noticed were more a factor of lens size and the relationship between objective and ocular, and had nothing at all to do with the scope's tube size?
Yep. The 30 mm tubes I have come with bigger ocular lenses than the 1" tubes.and out of the scopes I had on hand the ones with the 30mm tube did a better job. I think I mentioned that in the above post.
I tested one scope with a 50mm objective lense and it did'nt gather anymore lite than a scope with a 40 mm lense, whats actually important is the size of the ocular lense, bigger is better...
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 04, 2013, 12:01 PM:
The Leupold line that proved to have the issues that i mentioned were introduced in the late 90's. Two of them (that i saw problems with) were 1.5x6x42mm & 2.(?)x10x(?). I really liked the 1.5x6 until i got it home and found it would blur at 3x. I could adjust the ocular ring and the blur would lessen but then it would be less than clear at 1.5x. The 2x10 was worse(i never left the store w/one). I am not trying to bad mouth Leupold, but a lemon is a lemon regardless who grew it. I own and use several of the VariXIII's and hold them in high regard.
T.A., i agree with Fred's advice when comparing scopes. There are several factors that can and will sway the results. But, if your way works for you then thats ok with me.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 04, 2013, 12:55 PM:
quote:
T.A., i agree with Fred's advice when comparing scopes. There are several factors that can and will sway the results. But, if your way works for you then thats ok with me.
Yep I agree. Just by looking in my scope catolog its pretty tuff to find the same scope set up from brand to brand as they all do something to them differently. power settings, lens sizes and so on.. My test was'nt to find out who's scope was better for certain applacations but what scopes I had that worked better over another and why..It also gave me a idea of what I should look for on my next scope purchase.
If tube dia. was'nt importanted then we would still be useing those 1/2- 3/4" tubes that we used years ago on our 22 rifles.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 04, 2013, 01:26 PM:
Tim, it it depends on objecive & ocular size + glass treatment('s). When i decide on a scope i make a decision based on the rifle it's going on. If you are shooting off a bench, bigger is better. Shooting out of a window, bigger is better. When you go out walking & stalking smaller is way better. I hunt mostly on foot and i'm way past carrying a 6x20x50mm mounted on a bull barreled rifle regardless of how accurate it is. Cost is the biggest factor for most scope shoppers. There seems to be several affordable scopes out there that fit most anyones budget. I much perfer low powered quality scopes because i shoot offhand a bunch. I turn the power ring to it's lowest power and usually leave it there. When i get a shot i shoot, i don't twist the power ring up to let'em get out a ways before shooting. With a low powered scope i'm not afraid of making a (safe) running shot regardless of a scope being on 1.5x. If you can see it, shoot it. If all you see is hair and not a clear outline of your target you are way more likely to shoot one in the ass. But thats just my habits, if your way works for you thats ok with me.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 04, 2013, 02:00 PM:
Just curious if you use just the lowest setting on a variable why buy a var. and just get a fixed power instead.. And also if weight and size is a concern look at one of the Eotech weapon sites, not very big in size and you can also add a power booster.
I know what you mean about size and weight and I went to a smaller scope with a fixed 4x and lighted reticle for when I'm hunting behind the dog.And went with this scope.
One of the neg. I found by going to a smaller scope/shorter tube is there is'nt enough room to attach my night light to it..
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 04, 2013, 02:26 PM:
The quality of the glass is my biggest reason. If i'm in the mountains i sometimes switch to a 3x10 mainly because i can find a rest. Khales use to offer a straight 2.5x 30mm scope that was as good as anything i have looked thru, then or now. And my night time stuff is all handheld.
Tom and i talk all the time about Aimpoints vs low powered scopes. His 1x6 w/firedot is new and exciting probably best served when mounted on an AR type rifle but don't be suprised if i mount one on a CZ 527 if it will balance when mounted. If not, it will find a home on the 6mmAI M7, or an AR.
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 04, 2013, 02:59 PM:
Anybody tried a Burris Eliminator?Having screwed with multiple 'range finders' that often don't 'find',I guess I'm skeptical but the concept is intriguing.
I hear claims but can't believe that laser is picking up a coyote on snow.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 04, 2013, 03:15 PM:
I looked up the luepold with fire dot. The only thing its got going for it is the auto-matic switch, you still have to turn it on just like other scopes with lighted reticle or the aim points or halo scopes. If you have it turned on and are walking the switch is going to kick in and out all day.. Kind of a neat idea though..
Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on April 04, 2013, 03:16 PM:
never tried the Burris however, will gladly field test one for you ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 04, 2013, 03:26 PM:
quote:
Burris Eliminator
When I was at one of the Mr coyote contests there was a shooter there from Kansas that had one mounted on his rifle that I got to look at. Pretty neat but was like any other range finder you need to find a smooth/flat surface to reflect the lazer off of. It picked up the steel targets and a few fence posts pretty good.. It may not be too bad to have if you wanted to limit the amount equipement you carry...
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 04, 2013, 03:35 PM:
DiYi, i had to look that one up. 1500$ dang! they're proud of it. Someone, Swarovski maybe(?) had a version of that type of scope awhile back, not sure how it worked tho. Someone once told me that Lazering on snow is about as tough a job that we could ask for. The reflections made/make it hard to retrieve accurate data.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 04, 2013, 03:49 PM:
DiYi, i failed to ask if you have had past business with Burris' customer service lately? I have been told most of their products are now from Asia. I'm not sure if their USA (Colorado) factory is still open. And i must add, they use to offer excellent customer service.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 04, 2013, 04:08 PM:
Tim, don't miss the daylight bright firedot. Most illuminated reticles aren't visible in the full sun. Oh and the dot goes off after 5 minutes of not moving at all.
Fred, yep it's right at home on a machine gun.
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 04, 2013, 04:09 PM:
Sweet!
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 04, 2013, 04:53 PM:
Tom, do you remember the day we spent all day chronoing the AR's out back? We shot our handloads & govt "surplus" in about a dozen different chine guns that day. You took a couple of pic's of the guns, anyways Ryan asked if i still had a photo from that shoot. I don't but maybe tou do? If so could you send me a copy?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 04, 2013, 05:53 PM:
Side note: I have seen a number of coyotes spook at a laser, like getting hit with a branding iron except you don't even need to put it on him, just moving that laser in his direction can make him real jumpy on a moonless night.
Good hunting. El Bee
Now, MFK free!
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 04, 2013, 06:06 PM:
I have seen the same thing when glassing w/ night vision. Hit the intensifier on a coyote, or a dog and it will get their attention. The older range finders were bad about blowing your cover if you put it on them.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 04, 2013, 07:16 PM:
No Mike, I don't have that pic but I do still have the Chrono tapes from the Ohler.
Cuzz has one of them green laser lights, it's pretty impressive and he swore it didn't spook coyotes or deer, until it did... It does work good on hogs though, at least that's what he says.
Remember the crow and range finder story? A buddy of ours, who shall remain nameless said while in the Army, he ranged a crow with one of their high powered range finders and noticed the crow was bothered by it, so he kept bothering him, evidently the warnings about keeping it away from eyes was correct.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 05, 2013, 05:46 AM:
Tom, that 1-6X looks about perfect on there!
Tim, was just wanting to impress upon you the fact that tube diameter has nothing to do with light transmission, lens size, or field of view. Companies use a larger tube to fit more shit inside, thats it Quality internals with copius adjustment range need room to operate. That's why ya see alot of "tactical" scopes with even 34 or 35mm main tubes to accomdate internals that adjust for 100+ MOA of elevation travel.
And if a scope has an illuminated reticle, that requires extra space. Bigger tube, more space to fit shit inside. Larger lens are housed in the objective bell, and the ocular housing, completely independant of the main tube itself...
Just saying that a 30mm tube, in & of itself does not equate to being 'brighter', or automatically offer a larger field of view than a 1" tube. So, I wouldn't want to see guys go out and buy a 30mm version of a scope thinking it's gonna be somehow "better" for night hunting, or "better" for shooting runners. That it simply not the case...
FWIW, I've got a couple of Kahles scopes with 1" tubes and will put them up against any 30mm tube in their price range. When set at the same exit pupil for a brightness and FOV comparison, those little 1" tubed beauties will kick azz and take names...
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 05, 2013, 07:23 AM:
Pretty tuff to come up with more than one brand of scope thats equal to the other as far as power settings and lens size but managed to find a few for comparison.
SS 10 X 42 30 mm tube
Field of view at 100- 13'
obj. dia. 1.47
Kahles helia 3.5-10x50mm 1" tube
Field of view at 100 yds. 13.1
obj. 1.96
Swarovski Z3 3-10X 42mm 1" tube
field of view at 100 yds. 11.7
Luepold VX3 3.5-10X 50mm 1" tube
Field of view at 100 yds. 11'
As you can see the leupold with 1" tube and 50mm lens gains nothing as far as increaseing field of view.It may help with gathering more lite but I did'nt see that happening in one of my scopes with a 50 mm lense but may perform differently under a full moon/clear sky or use of a spot light....
With power settings being the same both of the top two 30mm scopes had a larger field of view of 2 feet over the one inche tubes..
The SS and Kahles were pretty close for field of view but the Kahles also had a larger eye lens. If the lens would of been the same then the SS with 30mm tube would of won as far as field of view goes..
The SS sells for around 400.00 vrs. the Kahles which sells for 1400.00... The Kahles has the better glass but as far as shooting coyotes go you don't need the higher priced stuff..
All I can add is if you look through a scope with a larger eye lense than another scope you have a larger bubble to work with which makes picking up a moveing target that much quicker as you don't have to be as critical with eye alignment.. And if the eye lense and obj. lenses are both larger than another scope you will gather more light to see with and a 30mm tube adds to this as well.
But like Fred said if you have a 30mm scope that has a shit load of other features then you will loose some as far as field of view or light gathering capabilties..
As for the field of view numbers I got them off the Swfa site..
Edit to add: I'm not trying to sell one scope brand over another just giveing some ideas of what to look for in a scope as everyone has there favorite brands. Just by looking at varis brands of scopes a buyer has to make some sacrifices here or there on what they want and what they intend to use it for. For example if you want a compact scope most may not have the power setting you would like or lite gather capabilities. Not one size fits all and I guess thats why they have so many to choose from...
I can't believe how much the prices have gone up on the dam things...
[ April 05, 2013, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 05, 2013, 07:55 AM:
Tim your post shows why i use the low powered scopes. The 30+ yr old design Leupold 1.5x5varix3 has OVER 60 ft field of view at 1.5x.
The VX6 1x6 Tom has, has 190+ ft field of view at 1.1(?)x. That is the reason i use a low powered scope. If a persons eyes require a higher powered scope to spot game, thats the way it goes. I will gladly sacrafice the extra magnifacation anyday of the week when i'm walking & stalking. If a person is shooting with a rest the higher magnification isnt as much of a handicap as it will be shooting offhand at any reasonable distance using say, 6x and up.
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 05, 2013, 08:10 AM:
Tom,
Here's a new(and nice)option for your machine gun.
http://www.valdada.com/1-5-8x26-35mm-trident-tactical-ffp-308-bdc-knob-circle-dot-x1-super-bright-reticle
P Picker,
Sorry,just saw your question.No,no recent dealings with Burris.I've been happy in the past with their stuff but I have 4 by 16 with BDC (think it's a 'Euro Diamond'?)that I'm not happy with.In fact that may be part of any trade I would make with SWAFA.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on April 05, 2013, 08:26 AM:
DIYI, thanks for posting that, it lets me know what a bargain the vx6 is. It's hard to believe how expensive good scopes have become.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 05, 2013, 08:34 AM:
quote:
you will gather more light to see with and a 30mm tube adds to this as well
NO, it doesn't add shit to the equation.
So, quit spreading that 2nd hand PM-esque "knowledge" around as if it were true. Its not true, and you are in the wrong to spread it as if it were.
Fact: the average healthy human eye has a pupil that is 7-8mm wide. All visual light must pass thru that little opening for your little brain to process it.
So, tell me how a tube that is 30mm wide makes any fucking improvement in "brightness" between a tube that is 25.4mm (1") wide when the pupil is only 8mm wide, at best?
The fact of the matter is that tube size doesn't "add to" or "help" in any way, shape, or form to what you perceive to be "better".
Lens size, grind & polish, coatings and their relationship to each other is what counts. Always has, always will. Tube size don't mean shit. Never has, never will...
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 05, 2013, 08:43 AM:
Tom,
Yeh,no chit!!!Day after day I look at option after option and most are way out of whack money wise.
Again,an hour ago I 'made up my mind',got on the phone and it was backordered.Good thing cause I've changed my mind twice since. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Damn I hate to pull the trigger without actually seeing the scope!That keeps bringing me back to my old tried and trues plus maybe Kahles.NEVER have talked to anyone that didn't like them.Maybe I'll go back and look at them again.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 05, 2013, 09:06 AM:
Tom, JC is deranged! I asked him once if he used a magnifying glass on himself "before" he joined the Army. He gave me that "oh yeah" look, took his note pad out and wrote himself a memo. He has some serious hearing damage these days, and as typical, the Army/VA haven't done a G.D. thing about it. That's why he left the service early.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 05, 2013, 09:34 AM:
Tim, people have staged tests to pump a certain brand of scope for years. There are twisted truths & outright lies posted in magazine articles & on the www pertaining to what brand pays the most advertising $$$$. I promise you Fred is offering some very intelligent advice concerning scope selections. His advise is free and from what I have read is as unbiased as anyone worth repeating.
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 05, 2013, 11:52 AM:
Well backed off for now and went back to familiar ground.Ordered this scope which I have already sold if I don't like it-minus $50.
http://swfa.com/Swarovski-3-10x42-Z3-Riflescope-P40817.aspx
Basically cause:I know it's decent glass and the reticle thickness is the same or near same as the Leupold 'Varmint' which I now have on a couple rifles;some rejected cause of size,weight and/or exposed turrets;but mainly cause I can immediately move it if I want and a friend in the business is going to arrange for me to look at a 3 by 15 Valdada FFP illumunated and the Kahles 3 by 10 SFP with the 4-D Dots(illuminated).
Bought at SWAFA cause they take trades(very fair)and their list on this was $100 cheaper than most.
Just damn glad I'm done-at least for awhile.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 05, 2013, 01:08 PM:
DiYi, The Swaro Z-3's are reported to be excellent scopes. Like you, i live out where it's difficult to see for yourself before buying.
Your info about SWFA's customer service is good to know. Thank You,
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 06, 2013, 09:12 PM:
Here is a E-mail I recieved from a friend from another group I belong to on scopes. Ron by the way recieves scopes from varis companies and tests them along with takeing them apart to see what makes them tic..
quote:
Hey Tim,
No brightness advantage in a 30mm tube over a 1". Size of exit pupil (the window of light that exits the eyepiece) is determined by diameter of objective lens divided by power, so a 50mm objective in 10X would yield a 5mm exit pupil whether main tube is 1 inch or 30mm. Many 30mm scopes appear a bit brighter sharper than many 1-inch simply because they are build of the highest materials to the highest quality. Build a 1-inch to the same standards and same useable brightness results.
Neither 10X nor 12X is good for running coyotes unless they're waaaaay out there because you don't get enough field of view to adequately lead a running coyote. Better at 6X to 8X out to 150, maybe 200 yards. Past 200 you can start to perform with high powers, but not really needed.
For night hunting, the human pupil dilates to a max of 7mm, so you could benefit from a scope that produced a 7mm EP. That would be a 10X with 70mm objective (don't make it.) or a 7X by 50mm. So, get a 2.5-10X or 3.5-12X or so with a 50mm objective. Dial the power down to 7X or lower and you get all the brightness your eye can absorb. But the real brightness comes from the anti-reflection coatings. These coatings can improve light transmission through the scope as much as 70 percent. Huge deal. Get fully multi-coated scope. Every lens has multiple layers of these essential coatings. Best brightness bang for your buck and doesn't weigh anything. Which brand has the best and most multi coatings is the big question. No one's telling. So you have to compare one against the other about 40 min. after sunset. Look at something in the dark shadows toward the setting sun. You'll see any differences one scope to another. And in many cases it's not much. Under brighter conditions they all look good.
Hope this helps. Can provide more detail if you want. Brand name isn't too important. Just don't buy the cheap line. Stay from the middle of the back and higher. $500 gets you about as good as $1,000 and up. Differences at those levels get pretty subtle. But, considering all the big bucks you make, you might just as well get a Swarovski or Zeiss for $2000 and not worry about it!
Ron
Ace Luciano says hey.
Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on April 08, 2013, 07:23 PM:
Isn't that pretty much what Fred said on the previous page?
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 08, 2013, 07:27 PM:
Yeah! Must of read Ron's article...
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 08, 2013, 08:17 PM:
We have gridlock here
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 08, 2013, 09:29 PM:
If Fred would of read my post correctly I was compareing "my scopes" to one another, not to his or anyone elses just what I had on hand.
In my test the scope with the 30mm tubes gave the best results, more field of view and more light compared to the others. The tube dia. most likely has nothing to do with it but it was the better of the scopes tested and half the price. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
quote:
Many 30mm scopes appear a bit brighter sharper than many 1-inch simply because they are build of the highest materials to the highest quality
[ April 08, 2013, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on April 08, 2013, 10:23 PM:
Tim , the "gridlock" happens when two or more experts debate on what a scope does for it's owner. If it doesn't work for me, I shouldn't automatically assume it won't work for you. I always say "if it works for you"
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 08, 2013, 11:15 PM:
Yep.. Does'nt really matter anyway as most people are going to buy what they can afford or whats good to them reguardless...
Myself I don't care for the high dollar stuff if I'm just going to use it for hunting. The money saved could buy another factory rifle or help pay for a custom rifle. Medium priced scope seem to work well and last just as long without any issues..
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 09, 2013, 06:00 AM:
Yep, I read your post correctly, Tim. You cite a bogus, completely un-scientific and contrived 'comparison' of whatever scopes you own, then bestow upon us this blanket statement, as if it were something of merit:
quote:
For day time runners or night hunting a scope with a 30mm tubes is the route to go. Gathers more light and makes it a little easier to pick up your target...
One doesn't need a search engine to find out that you are full of shit. You provide that information every time you post!
BTW, I love riflescopes like a fat kid loves cake and damn sure don't need Google to remind me about what I've already had for dessert...
Since takeing my word for it pains you, and you had to email someone else for confirmation, do you see how your statement was full of shit, and completley devoid of any fact based logic???
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 09, 2013, 03:53 PM:
Well a bit of good news.I think.If being broke can be good news.Anyway got a look at a Nightforce and then made a deal on the new first focal plane NXS 3.5 by 15 by 50mm.It was a shop demo $400 less than a new one with full warranty,not even 'ring marks' etc.Got it from Bear Basin Outfitters and they were great to deal with.Happy in SoDak but uneasy about spending the $$. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
The Bear Basin website is worth checking if looking for 'specials' or 'demos'.That scope is 'new' on the market so pleasantly surprised to get it already for less than full load.
Good hunting.
Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on April 09, 2013, 04:30 PM:
damn DiYi..... slow down man..... lots of work to !! . toys or a beautifull new cedar deck??.
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on April 09, 2013, 05:02 PM:
Screw the deck!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 09, 2013, 05:04 PM:
Yeah, he sounds like a dedicated coyote hunter!
Posted by the bearhunter (Member # 3552) on April 09, 2013, 05:32 PM:
Screw the deck!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 261 | From:
well yeah. they work better than nails ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on January 15, 2014, 03:40 PM:
Update.Well got the deck and the scope.Bearhunter retired on our deck job but I got the scope kind of working.Got it 'doped' out to 550 just in time for this morning when I had one stay way out for 18 minutes barking but not coming.Got a precise reading of 558 yds and 'bang/flopped' him with the 20-250.Long shot for this ol man,detached retinas and all.All in all very happy with the Nightforce.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 15, 2014, 08:07 PM:
That's a hell of a shot, in my book.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on January 16, 2014, 04:25 AM:
Nice shot , I'd be lucky to see it at 558 yds.
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on January 16, 2014, 04:27 AM:
What cartridge do you use for a 20-250 is it the 22-250 necked down?
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on January 16, 2014, 05:03 AM:
Paul,
Yes,22-250 necked down.Nothing new,guys like DAA been doing it for years.I went with the intent to shoot a bit heavier bullet than most.Using 57 gr Unmussigs(claimed BC of .420)at a little over 3600 fps I'm getting amazing performance.
Zeroed at 250 or 275 I'm still nearly 'hold on fur' to 400 but man oh man am I solid in the wind!(we have lots here-70mph gusts and blizzard forecasted today.)Calling here gets tougher n tougher with more hanging up 'out there' looking and barking.Gonna try get some of those.
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on January 20, 2014, 08:33 AM:
LB,
Was hoping you'd buy and try one of these and give us a report.Shouldn't hurt much with all the advertising revenue you generate here.Thanks.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/18/tangent-theta-3-15x50mm-rifle-scope-shot-show-optic-preview/
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 20, 2014, 09:01 AM:
Yes, so much that I am looking for a way better tax shelter. If you know one, I'm all ears!
The only thing I get, unsolicited gifts category, is hand calls, and pe cans. From now on, I am requesting all gratuities in the form of concealable handguns. Thank you, much appreciated!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 20, 2014, 10:52 AM:
Tangent Theta has acquired the now defunct, Premier Reticles company.
They've taken over Premier's Heritage and Light Tactical line of high end shit & have supposedly improved upon some slight 'issues' known to be associated with early era Heritage scopes (parallax binding, gummy MTC turrets)
With these improvements, (IMHO) Tangent Theta will rise to the top of the heap in high end tactical riflescopes...
[ January 20, 2014, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 20, 2014, 10:55 AM:
Oh yeah, great shot on that coyote, DiYi!!!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 20, 2014, 11:48 AM:
What the world needs! Another $3,000 rifle scope. Most peeps are deciding between a Weaver or a Simmons when they go on sale for under $300.
Good huntin' El Bee
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 20, 2014, 03:07 PM:
Life's too short to look thru shitty glass...
UBB.classicTM
6.3.0