This is topic So, if ya had a .473" Long Action laying around... in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 09, 2015, 06:06 AM:
...what would you build???
I'm a SA kinda guy, but wanting to do something nice for someone close to me & build him a "hotrod". Right now, the rifle is a real pretty Rem 700LSS, chambered in .270...
He's got a deer rifle he likes already, so this would be a "shits & giggles" varmint/fun gun. Would prefer </= 6mm to keep recoil mild & I have ooodles of boolits for it. Also, I want him to enjoy friggin' laser flat trajectory, so leaning toward uber slow twist & warp speed launching. Basically, just gonna have the action trued up & re-barrel with close to factory contour. I'll bed it back into the factory stock, to make a "sleeper" hotrod, if ya catch my drift. Wanna give the rifle back to him, looking like its still "factory", but with a beast under the hood!!!
I know Dave has a 6/284 that would fit the bill, but have also considered a 6-06, 6-06AI or .243Catbird. Anything else radical that I'm leaving out?
What say you, gents???
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 09, 2015, 07:05 AM:
I think I would go with the 243 Catbird. Almost an AI, may feed better, cooler name, and slightly more rad than using an old 30-06 case. Like the 06, 270 brass is everywhere. 25-06 may work too.
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 09, 2015, 08:50 AM:
90gr bergers and a 22-284. I know you like to buy barrels.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2015, 08:59 AM:
My opinion, a 6mm cartridge in a long action is an odd bird. When I bought this 22-243Middlested, I looked at a 240 Page in a long action, but decided against that dinosaur. Nothing wrong with the cartridge, it is a distinct luxury being able to seat heavy bullets way out there. Having owned a couple 6mm Remington's, I know the restrictions posed by a short action on bullet seating.
Anyway, I'd forget the idea of a long 6mm based on (preferred) 270 brass or whatever else you have on hand? The trend, these days is short, fat cartridges, right? So, the logical choice is a 25'06 and base it on 270 brass. That's if the original 270 is too pedestrian for ya. Building a rifle for someone else is a thankless job. See, everybody has a dream. Your dream and my dream might live on different planets.
A short action guy building a long action for somebody else is an exercise in futility. On the other hand, building a rifle via committee is also destined to not turn out well.
But, never forget, there is "magic" in a name. Catbird? WTF? But, 25'06 has the "cachet" we are looking for. Nobody will ever say, "Wow, he sure made an abortion out of that gun!"
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 09, 2015, 09:02 AM:
Maybe more hassle than it's worth to you Fred, but a buddy sometimes launches 'chucks with a slow twist .240 Gibbs. It's a screamer.
- DAA
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 09, 2015, 12:12 PM:
Thanks guys!
Cat Daddy, I reckon we gots da .224 caliber sufficiently covered!
Leonard, A friend of mine has a .243Catbird, on a 1:14 Hart. He's slinging 70gr N-b-tips @ 4K!
I suppose a .25-06AI wouldn't be out of the question. Gots a buncha 75Vmaxs that might be fun at warp speed. What barrel twist would you recommend?
Dave, what does the Gibbs have over your 6-284?
Again, I'd like to keep this thing as close to "factory" looking as possible! Gonna need a light contour barrel to fit the factory lammy stock.
File photo, Rem 700 LSS Mountain rifle. I think its real sharp lookin', as is...
[ February 09, 2015, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 09, 2015, 12:48 PM:
Fred, about all it has over the 6-284, is the only thing a hot rod needs to have. Capacity. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
That, and "maybe" (or maybe not...), work better in the magazine and maybe behave a bit better as a factory style repeater. All very maybe there.
Might have to work pretty hard to get anything out of the extra capacity in a factory length barrel though. My buddy is launching 70 B-Tips at 4100 fps out of his, but it's a longer barrel, can't remember exactly how long, but longer than a factory tube for sure.
And it's kind of a PITA to setup. Sort of. Blows forward a lot, put it that way. It's like a necked down "Predatorized" '06.
Dies are probably a lot harder to find and more expensive too.
Honestly, probably more trouble than it's worth.
It's cool though!
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2015, 05:25 PM:
I have a friend that bought a 25'06 on my recommendation. It's a walnut stocked Mountain rifle. That damned gun is so accurate, I would love to buy it off him.
My 25'06Ackley has a Hart barrel 1:13" twist. Never used anything but 100 grain Noslers. It will kill an elk stone dead, I promise.
It's funny how the whole world changes when you move from one caliber to another. Small changes, like 6mm, .257" and 6.5mm. Yes, you can neck a cartridge down and gain some speed, but maybe not much more than that as to actual advantage.
Anybody can play with the numbers. I knew a guy that could make his 300WM do just about anything with light bullets, like 110 grain. Don't argue with somebody that has his ducks in a row.
But, anyway, why 6mm? You should see the chronograph on those rare occasions when I load 75 grain bullets in that 25'06AI.
I just think that a good 243Ackley is all you need in that bore size. Beyond that and you should be buying barrels at least in pairs.
I know where you can get a real nice 240 Page Pooper. Not everybody on your block has one of those.
TMI! TMI!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 09, 2015, 06:26 PM:
The thing the 25-06AI needs is a high BC bullet.
That's where the 6mm beats it.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 09, 2015, 06:39 PM:
In a long M700 action the 06' case is my pick, it has more capacity than the 284, ya won't have to do any rail mods, no turd hunts waiting on a special run of special brass etc. If you choose to go 6-06 you should get 4k velocity pretty easily w/ 4831 & RE22. An old friend built a 22-284 on a short action and it was fast s o b but it wasn't as fast as a 22-06 AI regardless of powder selection. Another friend built a 6.5-06 on a long action and loves it, but can't get the long & heavy bullets to the speeds he wanted/expected, I joke with him and say "you shoulda built a 270AI".
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2015, 08:13 PM:
I agree with Tom, in that the problem in 25 caliber, (and 270, for that matter) is accuracy bullets. That's one reason why I split the difference and settled on the superb 100 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip. It flies flat enough for my purposes, out to this side of 450 yards, which is my limit for ethical shooting at game or predators.
As far as 270, I heavily favor that brass in any '06 application. First of all, supposedly, the specs say the 270 has a slightly higher operating pressures, so it follows, (for me) that it's stronger brass, and I use 270 brass in 25'06, for another reason; it has the large flash hole, and 25'06 brass doesn't.
I suppose 280 brass would be just as good, never messed with it? 284 brass used to be very scarce, some years ago? I think the popularity in target shooting brought it back, especially Lapua. No question about it, Lapua just does not make a wide enough selection of cases, to suit me. However, I have some damned nice Nosler 300WM brass that sure looks good enough to be made by Lapua? My only regret is I should have bought a lot more. Or, maybe not, I don't shoot that much 300, come to think of it.
So, who has a preference for brass and what do you avoid? Personally, I never buy Federal brass or R-P. That means, I use quite a bit of WW and some Lapua when I can get it.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 09, 2015, 08:41 PM:
quote:
The thing the 25-06AI needs is a high BC bullet.
That's where the 6mm beats it.
Why not just go to 6.5, it is basically the same as a 257 but better selection of bullets
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 09, 2015, 10:48 PM:
For some reason the 6.5 just doesn't interest me. high bc bullets but as Mike said, velocity doesn't seem to go along with it
Leonard, false shoulders are never a bad thing, didn't know about the larger flash holes. I use Lapua in 243AI, 22-250AI, 223AI, RP in 204, 223, 44SP and mag, 9mm, WW in 45.
Just saw the 28 Nosler is out, 162 Amax's with a .600 BC ain't never a bad thing to start with.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 10, 2015, 04:27 AM:
I use mostly Lapua. In some cases, if Lapua doesn't make it, I make it out of something longer that Lapua does make.
Also use IMI for .223 based cases. It's old now, and I'm getting kind of low, but it's some super strong, high quality .223. Primer pockets take quite a licking and keep on ticking.
Use Win. or Nosler where I can't use anything better.
Got some decent Norma, too (BR cases), but also have had some dog shit Norma, seems kind of hit and miss.
I don't use RP, for anything.
Speaking of Lapua though, I've not looked for a million years, but they used to make some darn nice '06 brass and it's what I'd use for any '06 based hot rod (if it's still around...). Think I probably still have a hundred or three of them buried somewhere.
The only 6.5 I ever played with was a 6.5 ICBM. It was a lot of fun. Definitely had the velocity to go with the bullets . Used it exclusively for launching 'chucks. It's all about the air time, with them.
- DAA
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 10, 2015, 06:11 AM:
Thanks for all the replies, gents.
Finally had this little rifle in hand, and it sure is a dandy! Got to researching it a bit, and turns out this "Mountain LSS" is a now discontinued model that has some intrinsic value? This one happens to be a cherry, think it has 17rds thru it, if that...
Anyhoo, I'm almost kinda not so keen about tearing it apart anymore. Still entertaining the thought, if the cartridge is right...
If I were doing a 'big game' cartridge, it prolly step up to a .280Rem AI. I know how a 162Amax flies, and that'd be a real nice platform to use. Or, just leave the mutha-trucka "as is" and find a good load with a 130grainer and call it good?
Leonard, I had a Ruger #1V in .25-06 and it was a fine shooting rifle. Used to shoot at old bowling pins to practice, and that sucka would friggin' destroy one at quite a long ways. Made some decent 'chuck kills with that rifle, but it was just too pretty for me. Just sayin' that your .257 caliber advice is not falling on deaf/dumb ears and is appreciated!
Dave, if you were doing a (slow twist laser) 6-06, would you neck down Lapua .30-06, over necking up Norma .25-06?
[ February 10, 2015, 06:19 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 10, 2015, 07:30 AM:
Fred, keeping in mind, that I have not worked with the .25-06 Norma for direct compare, yeah, I think I would.
Could obviously change my mind after a look see and play time with the Norma though. The Norma BR stuff I have is top notch (one of my .22BR's is chambered for it - dims used to be different enough from Lapua BR to warrant separate reamers for each type of brass, Lapua was scarce at the time, had a good Henriksen reamer for the Norma...).
Holler if you want me to look for the Lapua '06 I have somewhere in the collection.
- DAA
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 10, 2015, 07:36 AM:
P.S... Reason I'd lean Lapua, on GP, is primer pockets are typically tougher than Norma. Norma, as I'm sure you know, has a reputation for being "soft" and it's not all completely internet BS.
That, and I've never seen any truly bad Lapua brass. The .223 they used to make wasn't great, but not terrible (the current "match" .223 is really good).
Norma, on the other hand, I have seen some truly terrible Norma brass. The absolute worst brass I have ever bought, was some Norma .243. The neck thickness variation was off the charts. Literally visible to the naked eye. Soft primer pockets to boot. Just absolute dog shit brass. Worst ever! Worked with a friends .30-378 for awhile, bedded it, worked up loads for him etc., the Norma brass he had for it was pretty shabby too. Ended up, not bothering to handload for it, in fact. The factory loads were so hot, primer pockets were mostly wrecked after the first firing, accuracy wasn't improving with handloading and I didn't dare try to match the factory velocity either. Those were some stupid hot factory loads! I mean, about one in five, would self-deprime hot! Was getting advertised velocity though!
- DAA
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 11, 2015, 09:36 AM:
Thanks Dave!
This Norma SAUM brass I'm fussing down to 6.5 is kinda soft, but that's making the task more easy. Turning necks as a matter of course, so far so good on primer pockets (4x)...
Gonna pick up some decent factory ammo and see how this bitch wants to shoot. Maybe a bedding/trigger job might be in order before tearing it down.
Appreciate the thoughts!
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 20, 2015, 03:36 AM:
Update:
After shooting this baby a couple times, my suspicions were confirmed that it's just too nice a rifle to tear apart & build something from...
To that end, got one of these on the way:
Upping the anti a bit over a standard LA, cuz that fucker is coming with a .750" bolt w/ .590" face. But the term "hotrod" will still apply... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 20, 2015, 05:06 AM:
That oughta work.
- DAA
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on March 20, 2015, 05:37 AM:
Nice choice Fred....I love mine.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 20, 2015, 10:17 AM:
Good to know, Geordie!
Was gonna go Surgeon 1086, but they do not offer the larger bolt, or Lapua boltface as options for it. Would've had to step up to a 1581XL, and that fucker is gigantic!
Posted by Aaron Rhoades (Member # 4234) on March 20, 2015, 09:07 PM:
Fred, does a guy gotta wait a couple years to get one of those or just give them a call and get one coming?
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on March 21, 2015, 04:51 AM:
They are available now. There are many new actions coming out on the market as well.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 21, 2015, 07:16 AM:
On the one hand, a nice little luxury. On the other; ridiculous.
Yes, custom actions have a place for those with enough disposable income. PREDATOR BLING. But, what's the practical application, involving coyotes?
There isn't one. I'm not sure if they would lock up with a couple grains of sand, or if ceracoat is required to knock down the flash? I am sure that these custom actions are really great, very stiff and unnecessarily heavy.
Okay, I will duck and run. School me.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 21, 2015, 11:29 AM:
Aaron, as Geordie mentioned, Defiance actions are readily available at a few dealers. Bugholes, 3rdGen, Brownells, etc., as well as factory direct.
I called Defiance with some technical questions about a custom application for a big boomer and was impressed enough to inquire about lead time for an action. Was put on hold momentarily, and was informed that the exact action I'd need was in a box & ready to ship. Wound up scoring a deal I couldn't refuse, so one is on the way to 'smithy...
Leonard, don't worry, that shiny bitch is getting Cerakoted! And being it is a "tactical" action, it should be fairly tolerant to field conditions & abuse.
This ain't gone be no coyote gun! Just scratchin' an itch for something ridiculous...
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