This is topic .204? in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on July 10, 2014, 01:39 PM:
I'm thinking about selling a rifle I haven't shot in at least 10 years, but would like to replace it with something that might see some occasional use and is a chambering I don't currently have.
How about a 204? This would be a factory rifle as I have no plans to have something built.
The rifle would be for coyotes, some light duty ground vermin shooting, and also a backup/loner rifle if needed.
If it matters, I currently use a 22-250 for coyotes and have a 243AI that can be pressed into service.
So what about the .204 has it lived up to your expectations for those who have used it?
Posted by KaBloomR (Member # 4252) on July 10, 2014, 04:05 PM:
I picked up a Ruger Predator in .204 when they first came out. Beautiful, well built rifle, but it didn't impress me accuracy-wise with anything heavier than 32 grain bullets. The round is hell on prairie dogs, but wasn't doing anything significantly (for me) above and beyond what I could get with 40 grainers in my .223 Rems, so I sold it. Haven't owned another one since, but may again someday.....
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 10, 2014, 05:07 PM:
I have no business commenting because I've never even fired one, much less owned one.
But my observations are that it is neither fish nor fowl. I really can't consider it as a hammer, beyond midrange, and the fur application is wide open for critical evaluation. Somewhere, a man might find a happy combination, as far as accuracy and terminal performance.
Now, I do like Rugers. It's a Mauser action and there ain't no flies on it, but they have an accuracy problem. They are just good enough, not tack drivers, by any means. I don't know if it's the action screws and the way the recoil lug is seated or they just don't make a premium quality barrel? But, pound for pound, any Savage or Remington will outshoot a Ruger. That's my personal opinion, others may disagree.
Other than that, the fit and finish is decent and they stand up to hard use, maybe even abuse? Will last a lifetime, no doubt. They don't give them away, either.
Good luck Lonny, El Bee
Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on July 10, 2014, 06:23 PM:
Lonny, If'n yer getting the itch for a 204. I say why not ? As far as a factory rifle goes. I think a CZ American or the Varmint version is the way to go.
Can't give any personal experiance's with coyotes. From what, I've gathered is the bullet is of great importance. That in itself seems to be a mixed bag ? Many used to swear by the Berger 35gr match bullet.
They now call it a "varmint" bullet. Dunno ?I've got some Nosler 40gr bullets with the flat base, they might hold together better ? I've had my CZ about a year and a half now,and haven't got around to shooting coyotes with it. Been kinda burned out on calling lately.
Well there ya have it. My humble opinion, my friend. Oh' yeah a 39gr Sierra BK,blows the shit outta' sage rats.. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 10, 2014, 06:56 PM:
I think that's ^ good advice, I forgot about the CZ.
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on July 10, 2014, 08:36 PM:
I always run into callers that swear by their 204's. All my calling buddies have em and pretty much worship the things.
Personally, for coyotes, I don't care for em. I'm the same with .223's. I have shot tons of coyotes with each,(with good bullets) and I'm just never really impressed. I'm the guy that gets shit tons of runners with em. Some will say I don't shoot em right, but dang, when you shoot enough animals, you kind of get a feel for things.
For smaller critters...yes.
Anywhoo, I'm not a fan.
Mark
[ July 10, 2014, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 11, 2014, 03:13 AM:
Never used one, or even seen one being used, myself. Which is odd, considering I was shooting .20 calibers before the .204 Ruger existed.
But all of my experience with .20 calibers is at much higher velocities than the puny little Ruger chambering. It does seem like bullet selection is everything with the .20's for coyote though.
- DAA
Posted by booger (Member # 3602) on July 11, 2014, 06:49 AM:
Lonny,
I have a Remington M700 VTR, (the one with the funny looking triangular barrel), and have found it shoots pretty well, .75", with the 32 gr. Hornady factory VMax load.
I have not shot any critters with it though.
I have some MidWay 34 gr. HP's that I am going to try.
I asked this very question a while back when I was considering my purchase.
I think 'ol TRinCO has shot a lot of coyotes with his .204.
His advice to me was to load it with 35 gr. Bergers and let it fly...
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on July 11, 2014, 08:14 AM:
I bought a CZ American 204 some years ago mostly because 2 guys I hunt with were shooting them. In their hands it seems to do a good job of killing coyotes and bobcats. In mine, not so much.
I was advised to use the 40 grain Nosler BT's and the first coyote I shot with the 204 was with him calling. It went down with ease. This was in northern Nevada.
The other guy who pretty much shoots a 204 exclusively doesn't load and shoots the 39 grain Sierra Blitzkings with great success.
I mostly hunt in eastern Oregon and listened to a guy who swore by the 35 grain Bergers so I loaded a bunch and went calling. I called in 2 coyotes that day. The first came to about 75 yards and gave me an easy broadside shot. I hit him in the sweet spot and he went over. As I was getting up he got up and ran back onto some heavily posted private property. I never got a second chance.
The second coyote came to about 50 ft and I shot him square in the chest. He was above me on a rock outcropping and when the bullet hit him he jumped sideways off of the lava and landed on a big rock. I heard ribs break when he hit and could see his tail flagging. I continued calling for about 10 minutes more. When I got up and walked to where he landed the coyote was gone. I looked around for over an hour and never found a trace. I even went back the next morning and couldn't find him. I shot maybe 12 coyotes with the 204 and lost at least half of them.
The 35 grain Bergers and the 39 grain Blitzkings shoot some impressive groups. Maybe it's my advanced age but the 204 hasn't been the ideal cartridge for me. I've talked with some other callers who had similar experiences with the 204. I was talking with Kerry Carver who said he quit shooting a 204 for the same reason I did.
Mine occupies space in my gun safe now days. When I go calling I generally carry a Sako Forrester 22-250 and a Sako Vixen 223AI and sometimes a Remington 700 Deluxe 220 Swift.
I would consider selling the CZ, BTW.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 11, 2014, 09:59 AM:
Well, Moe. If I were to copy and paste your post, except change 204 for 223, that's the way I feel about the utility of a 223 for called coyotes under western conditions. At one time, I thought what's the big deal, a 223 aught to kill a stupid coyote in Arizona brush country? In short order, I decided I needed more gun and pretty much settled on 22-250 or better.
But, with the 204, you get a bit more velocity, & a bit less ft/lbs. from what looks to be the exact same case. I don't even remember the distinction, be it a 222Mag or whatever but it looks close enough?
As they say, firearms exist within a "mature market" meaning that every potential customer already owns a few guns. This means you have to perk their interest with the latest whiz bang. "Oh man, gotta have one!" Be cool and own the latest, slickest, most accurate and deadly rifle/cartridge to come down the pike in for ever!
So, we have the Winchester super short magnums, 357Sig. Lazzeroni's reinventing Weatherby magnums, and so forth. Do we really "need" a 204 Ruger or does creating the cartridge generate a demand instead of the other way around?
The 6mm field is cram packed with obscure cartridges that you can't slip a piece of paper between them, performance wise, all with nomenclature that says nothing. The latest factory chamberings in twenty caliber, (back on topic) but it's all versions of reinventing the wheel.
For me, it would have to be a hell of a bargain before I would buy a 204. I just MEH. You guys that find the chambering useful, I am happy for you, but I don't need one.
Cartridge arguments always generate a lot of ink. I bet we aren't through here, yet?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on July 11, 2014, 11:18 AM:
Thanks for the replies gents.
I'm somewhat surprised (not totally though) at the lukewarm feeling and experiences (Moe's especially) with the .204.
Good stuff though because it is making me think this over. I never move real quickly on a purchase anyway, but the process is in motion.
Heck, maybe having a 22-250 as a backup for the 22-250 isn't so bad?
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 11, 2014, 12:19 PM:
Lonny, maybe you "need" a .22-250AI? Or something silly, along the lines of a .22-243AI?
Jump in, the water's warm!!!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 11, 2014, 12:28 PM:
You want silly? I hunt at night in heavy cover with a Model 700 chambered in 308 with Russian NV. The good old "brush busting" 165gr. theory, in practice.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on July 11, 2014, 12:51 PM:
I used an AR in straight 204 shooting 35gr Bergers. Killed quite a few coyotes with it. Lost some also.
Right now I am shooting a 204AI with a 9 twist barrel and 50gr Bergers cause I had 600 of them. Last fall was using 38gr Unmussigs running them 4100 MV they did well for me.
Like the 204AI so much, I just build up another one with a 10 twist barrel to shoot all the 40gr Bergers I got stashed.
Been using them both this summer behind the dogs and got no complaints.
I type all this to say if you can find a factory 204 that will shoot a 40gr berger, you will get along fine with it for most calling type setups. They will exit from time to time, but they kill coyotes better for me than the 35's...that and 4 bucks will get you a decent cigar.
stay after them
Kelly
Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on July 11, 2014, 01:03 PM:
The .204R always seems to be a love/hate topic.
It never fails though...
There will always be a bunch of posts discussing run offs,...
And then T.R. shows up...
It's hard to argue against the success he's had with it!
I've always been a fool for the odd and obscure, and sometimes even outdated, but for some reason the .204R just never did much for me.
If we totally disregard coyotes, I still think it earns it's place at the table in the prairie dog fields based on performance.
But, for the type of prairie dog shooting that we usually do, (mobile, and not having to reach out there if we don't want to), I still never found it worth replacing .223's or worth the cost (to me) to tool up for loading.
I've shot prairie dogs all day long right next to guys shooting .204's and they couldn't really do anything I couldn't do with a .223. And, for some reason,...I find them just a little louder but I can't explain that...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 11, 2014, 01:28 PM:
I'm muy simpatico with duckdog's experience. I don't know what the exact application will be, ultimately, but I do not see a 204 as a great coyote cartridge and as a prairie dog slayer; just about anything can handle that chore. Some guys, depending on where they are and how they hunt will find a 204 useful, but it's just one of many choices out there, doesn't stand out, in my judgement. Kinda like kissing your sister, just doesn't excite.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on July 11, 2014, 02:31 PM:
I had to use google translate to see if you agreed with me. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on July 11, 2014, 02:39 PM:
Good info from everyone! I've not owned a 204 and maybe have fired a dozen (or less) rounds thru 2 rifles so my expertise is lacking subjectively. I remember when the round was introduced and felt the same as when the 17 rem came out. How long have people debated on the 17's merits? The difference between the two calibers as far as I'm concerned is mass production, computer designs and communication between shooters and bullet makers. That (to me) favors the 204 simply because today it seems improvements happen with every new lot number of bullets offered for sale on xyz bullet makers web site. Moe isn't impressed with his 204's performance, and rightly so but throw in 10 + years of bullet development and I would encourage him to try the newer and improved(?) bullets before he deletes it from his collection.
When comparing the 223 rem vs 204r, I doubt any noticeable difference using non custom bullets. Compare the parent 222 rem mag case to the 223 rem and there is about 1-2 grains of powder difference between the two. Neck either to 20 cal and improve it all you want but the difference is nil in performance. Barrel length and powder selection will produce more improvements between calibers.
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on July 11, 2014, 03:22 PM:
I got so bored with killing coyotes with the .204 that last year I only used my 17/204 for all but a few coyotes, and I broke out the .17 Rem. for them. The lowly .204 didn't get any action with me last year. It just made killing coyotes too easy for me. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Only bullets I ever used were the 35 and 40 gr. Bergers. They both worked well for me, with the 40's getting complete pass throughs from time to time.
One thing is for sure, if the coyote is still moving at all after the first hit, I didn't hesitate to hit'em again. BUT that rule stands no matter the rifle I got in my hands. Seen 'em run off from hits from lots of different sized bullets.
If I were hunting terrain that had heavy cover instead of the wide open terrain that I hunt, I may very well choose to hit'em harder, but not because I've lost a lot of coyotes when using my .204, but because I may not have the luxury of picking my shots at my convenience like in the wide open prairies.
YMMV..
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on July 11, 2014, 04:11 PM:
I shot a Tac 20 for a couple of years. Basically the same thing as the 204. The results were dismal. I lost more coyotes with it than I ever did with the 17 hmr. Believe it or not. I did not pick my shots with the hmr, I picked my spots.
Anyways, here is my observation on why some guys have success and others do not. In my opinion, the coyotes are just tougher in MO or say eastern OK. The further west you go, it appears to me they are just not as rugged. Killing an adult here is about the same as killing a pup back in MO. In terms of how easy they die.
How hard or how easy they skin tells me some things too.
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on July 11, 2014, 04:36 PM:
That's an interesting take on your experiences Randy and not one I've heard discussed on the boards before.
It seems that with the .204, bullet selection for coyotes is absolutely critical, what bullet were you using in the Tac 20 Randy?
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on July 11, 2014, 06:59 PM:
Lonny...I shot mostly the 35 gr. bergers, but also tried the 39 gr. No difference to me.
Something else. When coyotes first got established in my part of MO, my partner and I bought, trapped, or shot about 100 one year. I weighed every coyote and kept notes. The average weight on the pups was 19 pounds and the adults averaged 24. This was 25 years ago. Now in the same area it is common for almost all coyotes to weigh in the upper twenties and it is very common to kill coyotes in the mid 30's. You better have one over 40 pounds to win any contests. The weight tells me it makes them harder to kill when you compare that factor to these here in my area now.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 11, 2014, 07:34 PM:
I'm surprised. I have pretty good results with the 204 and 35 grain Bergers. Shot them in an AR some and killed more than a few coyotes. Now I have a CZ for my winter rifle that I pack on my side by side while trapping and again have shot a few dozen coyotes with no problems. I mean really, no problems. Frontal, broadside, runners, whatever. It's not a wind bucker or long ranger, but at ranges of 300 or less it's deadly. No comparison to a .223. You couldn't force me to shoot a .223 for any purpose with coyotes, but I'm plumb happy with .204 results. It's not the answer to every situation, but nothing is. I shoot much bigger and badder most of the year, but if I might skin something in the dead of winter I'll gladly shoot my .204.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 11, 2014, 08:43 PM:
Well, there you go.
I gladly yield to experience. On paper, it doesn't add up for me, but that's why you have to step beyond the theoretical, into the real world.
However, I still don't need one. LB
edit: I understand what Cal is saying, and in the hands of an expert, a 204 is adequate. Me, I'm not that confident. More gun.
[ July 11, 2014, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 11, 2014, 10:19 PM:
Lonny, I'm on my third go round with the 204. The first two, I lost more than I anchored. I tried the 32 and 39 gr bullets, both of which are too lightly constructed. The 2 guns I had would not shoot the 40's.
But after blowing a few cats up with a 223 and 22-250, I decided to look for a "cat" gun. Cousin had an AR and said the 40 gr Noslers killed coyotes as good as the 22-250. So I lucked into a Kimber Montana in 204. Bought some 35 Bergers for cats but since it was January when I got the gun, I bought a box of 40 gr Hornady shells. Hunted till the end of Febuary with it and killed 2 cats and a dozen or so coyotes. Nothing moved after being shot and fur damage was bearable on the cats while almost non existant on the coyotes. I love it but this year I played with the 22-250ai in the same gun. But I did buy some 40 gr Bergers to use on coyotes and will use the 35's during cat season.
Eastern Oklahoma coyotes
Cats from the same place
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 12, 2014, 03:51 AM:
One quick point. Both my guns in the .204 were at least 24 inch barrels and my load produced right at 4000 fps in both. If a guy were to shoot a short barrel or slower load you aren't going to get the same results I suppose. If your gun or load were producing way less fps and energy you would likely get .223 results.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on July 12, 2014, 03:54 AM:
LB, there is never any dust on your opinion on what kills coyotes and I have always agreed with your thoughts and results. That being said, I still have to sing the praises of the .204 . Even on marginal hits I have had better than average results.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on July 12, 2014, 05:22 AM:
My 22" barrel gives me 3919 fps with TAC and the 35 Bergers and I did safely work up to right at 4000 fps but backed off. The 40 gr factory load runs 3683 fps.
My last 204 was a Contender with a 22" barrel and I don't think I ever reached 3700 fps with the 35 Bergers, that most likely is the difference Cal.
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on July 12, 2014, 04:15 PM:
Back in the 60's my backup rifle for my 22-250 was a Remington 722 in 222. With the help of Sierra Bullets who were in Santa Fe Springs and a block away from where I worked I started having great results with the rifle. Also, learning the capabilities of the cartridge added greatly to that success. I learned to keep my shots to about 175 yards if I wanted a sure kill.
Now remember I said that one friend used the 39 gr Blitzkings and has great success with his 204. Tim kills the hell out of a bunch of coyotes and bobcats every year and shoots the 204 almost exclusively. I'm just not Tim. I prefer some additional firepower.
I can see the thing about love/hate for the 204. As soon as someone mentions it a great debate begins and some guys really feel slighted. What I said is in my hands it doesn't do so well. I think I shoot pretty much as good as the next guy but maybe that isn't so or maybe I'm holding my mouth wrong. When I'm shooting my 22-250 I anchor what I've shot so I will continue to shoot it.
I bought the 204 because I had the money at the time. The CZ and the Ruger are just what I like in a calling rifle. Light weight and accurate. It just didn't work out for me.
BTW, I have a Sako Vixen 222 Mag and love it. I shoot 50 grain Sierra Sptzer Blitz bullets in it and it really plants coyotes.
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on July 12, 2014, 07:59 PM:
Sako rifles.....Ive been sort of lusting after one latley for some reason? Never had one..are they really that good? I hear some guys rave about em.
Mark
Posted by 6mm284 (Member # 1129) on July 13, 2014, 03:43 AM:
Have killed them dead at over 400 yds with 204 and had them get up and run off at 40 yds 32 and 40 grain vmax. I now double tap them if possible. 204 is what it is and is worth trying although it took quite a few years to talk myself into buying one. There are shots i hesitate to take that would not even be a question with other calibers. As far a praire dogs 204 is my favorite.
Lone howl, i have a number of sakos L461 and L 579. I think they are one of the finest factory rifles you can buy. Excellent action, machine work, and finish.Hope you find a nice one they are getting very hard to find.
[ July 13, 2014, 03:47 AM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on July 13, 2014, 03:51 AM:
Interesting, this 204. I've been using a 17 Rem for the past 8 years or so with those little 25 gr hp Hornady's and unless you slop shoot one it kills em pretty dead with little or no fur damage. Have been around tac 20's and 204's and some guys shoot well and others don't. The ones that hit their mark don't seem to have a problem and the ones that don't have a mess on their hands.Had the same experiance with 223's and 6mm's and 243's and my 22-250's. Seems to me that it's the shooter not so much the round. Of course I could be mistaken, as usual, but that's my take on it for what little it is worth....
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 13, 2014, 06:19 AM:
I really like the 204 Ruger. I have a factory CZ sporter and a semi-custom Rem 700 with a Shilen 1-10 twist. Between it and my 17-204, I am not sure which I like best? Don't believe I have killed anything past 300 yards with either, usually called in critters.
I use 30gr bullets in the 17 and 35 Bergers in the 204 exclusively.
I do tend to prefer the 17 out west, they seem easier to kill, like what Randy says, and the 204 or my 22-250 AI gets grabbed most often here in Missouri, haven't tried it yet in Ohio.
I had a cz varmint in 204 rechambered to 20 var-targ, but haven't killed much, only a few groundhogs with it. More fun than the 221 fireball
[ July 13, 2014, 06:24 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on July 13, 2014, 01:25 PM:
I'm sure you're right, Walt. A 22-250 may just make a sloppy shooter out of s guy. I don't give a rip about fur, just a kill. I've heard a lot of guys say they've had a lot of run offs with their 22-250's but that hasn't been my experience. I went to the 22-250 from a 243. The going bullet back then was the 75 gr Sierra Spitzer and while we didn't have a lot of run offs we did have a lot of animals knocked down that required some trailing and shooting again. When I started shooting the 22-250 that stuff stopped. I used a 52 grain Sierra BTHP in front of 37 grains of Dupont IMR 4895 and it made a mess of whatever it hit. Even a bad hit was a kill.
Sako rifles........, yeah, IMO they're the best but the quality depends on the importer. Firearms International imported my guns but Garcia, the guys who imported the Mitchell 300 reels took over about 1970 and while the guns were still high quality they were different. If you're looking for an older on look of a FI gun. Baretta is now the importer and i understand the new Sako 85's are top notch. I've been scheming on how to justify spending almost two grand for one, myself.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on July 14, 2014, 03:37 AM:
From my experience with the .204 ruger it has been a great little coyote killer and very good fur gun. Very few runners from what I've seen and that almost exclusively with the 35 grain Bergers . I shot it for a few years until i built my .17 Tactical and started shooting the 30 grain Kindler gold. Which is in my opinion is a far superior setup. Better bullet B.C, more energy just as fast and even easier on fur. That is the only reason i don't shoot the .204 as my fur gun anymore. Now if i just want a coyote dead and don't care about the fur i always reach for my .22-250 AI and 60 grain Bergers.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 14, 2014, 05:32 AM:
Considering the above post. As far as I can see, what he is saying is, yeah a 204 will kill a coyote.
But, when you have some version of 17 and a 22-250Ackley, who needs it?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on July 14, 2014, 06:00 AM:
Here is a stand where I was shooting the 204AI.
Kills em pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkWUll0ilGQ
Stay after them
Kelly
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on July 14, 2014, 06:13 AM:
Yep Leonard that's exactly what I'm saying. But its got to be a hot rod 17 with high B.C bullets.
[ July 14, 2014, 06:18 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 14, 2014, 06:30 AM:
I'm waiting for the `Being Kelly Jackson` movie to come out !!!
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on July 14, 2014, 07:27 AM:
It would be pretty boring KOKO unless you are really into Beer, Cigars and Coyotes.
Posted by booger (Member # 3602) on July 14, 2014, 07:41 AM:
What a great video...I am on board for the coyotes and beer, don't do cigars, though! Nothing against you doing them...I might be up for a pinch of Skoal!
Question, Kelly...what kind of dogs do you have, and were you a bit concerned when your dog was out of sight, over the little rise, with that pair?
Looks like a ton of fun!!!
[ July 14, 2014, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: booger ]
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on July 14, 2014, 08:10 AM:
Booger – yes I am always concerned.
Peach is one of my dogs, she is the smaller one and is a Mt Cur. Cal has a litter mate to her.
Showing some young dogs some coyotes right now that are Cur/Jadg crosses. They are doing ok, time will tell if they have the brains to figure out the game.
Jeff’s dog Spot is a Catahoula. Jeff likes to film and does a real good job of it.
kj
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on July 14, 2014, 09:13 AM:
Excellent stuff, Cat Daddy!
Man, them coyotes can sure vanish into that broom weed, or whatever its called.
Great job on the camera, Jeff!
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on July 14, 2014, 10:52 AM:
Loves me some KJ calling vids! Awsome!
Mark
Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on July 14, 2014, 01:46 PM:
Great stuff Kelly! That was fun to watch.
Thanks for posting it.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 14, 2014, 03:37 PM:
Lookit! LoneHowl and Lonny! It's getting scary.
Oh yeah, talk about scary. Did I just see cat daddy with a conventional non AR "platform"?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on July 14, 2014, 04:04 PM:
LB - I messed up and built a 243AI a few years back, its been all down hill for the AR's ever since.
Thanks guys, but Jeff did all the work, finding the land, filming, editing and such. I just showed up with my dog, a call and a rifle. We had a good weekend hunt and I got to shoot 17 coyotes.
Headed out the door to put another one in front of the young dogs.
Yall stay after them.
Kelly
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on July 14, 2014, 04:08 PM:
quote:
It would be pretty boring KOKO unless you are really into Beer, Cigars and Coyotes.
Well, actually, hell yeah I'm into Beer, Cigars and Coyotes.
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 14, 2014, 04:28 PM:
Umm, yeah, I thought it was a trick question?
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 15, 2014, 03:58 AM:
There's other stuff besides coyotes ???
I didn't get the memo.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on July 15, 2014, 09:14 AM:
"Well, actually, hell yeah I'm into Beer, Cigars and Coyotes."
Can't drink much beer anymore but I'm always up for cigars and coyotes.
Nice video.
Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on September 05, 2014, 09:55 AM:
on paper it shouldn't kill as good as it does. in the field I don't have any complaints. I haven't lost any coyotes that I wouldn't have otherwise with other cartridges. the Swift is still king but the 204 is a pleasure to shoot.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 05, 2014, 11:35 AM:
Yeah, there is some strong "cachet" attached to the 220Swift. I began shooting a Swift in 1975 when Ruger first came out with it. I had just had my 6mm stolen and had exactly two animals under my belt with a pre '64 Model 70 that belonged to a partner. But, from that point forward, even to this day, I have more kills with a Swift than all others combined. I still have a stock Ruger Swift, don't actually use it much, the throat being a little long, but it is my "Loaner" rifle and everybody seems to do okay with it.
It's hard to beat, for sure, but I have two 22-250AI that out perform the Swift, by a lot.
And, that's the other thing. Somebody in this thread mentioned 52gr. bullets and I always preferred the Speer gold match when you could get them. But, since the throat is eroded in this Swift, I have been using the 63gr. semi pointed Sierra spitzer. It gets the job done, but (realistically) it's more or less a 300 yard gun. But, that's not a handicap in most of Arizona.
Good hunting. El Bee
PS welcome back, Quinton. You have been missed.
Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on September 05, 2014, 12:37 PM:
there are definitely better performers out there than the 220 swift. It still stands as a benchmark though. Most all of the hot rods are always compared to it much like every new tactical scope that hits the market is compared to the Schmidts. Just shy of it's 80th birth day the old Swift is on shaky legs but still considered "The King"
Long live the King.
Good hunting.
Q,
[ September 05, 2014, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Q-Wagoner ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 05, 2014, 03:02 PM:
No argument there. There really is "magic" in some cartridges, and their names. And, "Swift" has as much "magic" as any of them; more than most.
Besides the fact that I get quite a lot more velocity from either of my 22-250Ackly's or the 22-243Middlested, a very substantial PLUS is the fact that they don't need trimming to length like the Swift. Two of the worst cartridges I have ever hand loaded, as far as stretching is concerned, is 270Winchester and 220Swift. That doesn't make them "shit", it's just something that needs to be done.
Hey, have you been teaching AR anything he don't already know? Just kidding! He's a pleasure to hunt with!
Good hunting. El Bee
[ September 05, 2014, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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