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Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on April 12, 2016, 09:16 AM:
Until this denning season I have never been much of a shotgun hunter. Have often heard of it referred to as a butchers tool.
The last couple of months have opened my eyes to how effective in the right circumstances a shotgun can be. I am currently running a Benelli M1 3" shotgun with a Carlson Dead coyote choke tube and a red dot sight and either Dead Coyote "T" shot or the Heavi shot goose load "B" shot. I know it's expensive and I wince too when paying for it. However I have killed two at 52,53 yards and both big males went straight down. Coyotes closer are dead before they hit the ground. I run a dog on stand and that had always been my primary concern about a shotgun. I have had to pass up a shot or two because of the dog's proximity but so far nothing has escaped. So far my feelings are in the thick stuff nothing is better, perhaps time and experience will change my thoughts.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 12, 2016, 09:29 AM:
I keep threatening, for years and years now, threatening to go into the thick stuff with a shotgun.
But, instead, for years and years, I just haven't been hunting the thick stuff.
I know plenty of places though, where I know for a fact, there are a lot of coyotes in there. Maybe this year, I'll finally give it a try.
And... As far as it goes. Last year, had an awful lot of kamikaze's that got away. I just can't shoot running coyotes with a rifle like I used to. Had several talks with partners, where we really believed a shotgun on stand would have increased our take. Some days, by a lot.
One problem with all of the above though. I haven't really used a shotgun - for anything - since before the first time I got laid... I don't think I can hit my ass with both hands using one.
Did setup a 3" 870 I found under the bed a few years ago with a Speed Bead and a DC choke. Patterned it, sighted it etc. Never have got around to using it though!
- DAA
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 12, 2016, 11:15 AM:
I've been using a shotgun faithfully for the last several years and can say I am rarely without one anymore on a stand. Have seen the benefits to many times not to take it with me. I know I have doubled the number of Coyote I've killed. This last fall we called 30 coyotes in on a 4 1/2 day trip and 1/3 of the coyotes killed were with a shotgun and would probably still be out there if it weren't for the shotgun..... One nice thing about shotguns is it changes how you call too. So of those areas that you just pass on by because its to thick is prime ideal calling country with the shotgun..... I use a Benelli M2 with 3" 4 buck and it really lays them down.....
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 12, 2016, 11:18 AM:
Ive used one for long time, extremely useful to me.. but when the lead ban deal came up here I slowed way down with it. Was doing the DC thing but I aint paying for it no more, I dont care how good it is or how big a budget I have for it...aint doing it. (but it is good stuff!!) Out of state Ill shoot lead.
I have always been a rifle guy, and I can still do the close up stuff with one, still dont feel handicapped as of yet. However....I find myself grabbing the shotgun more and more...even in open country..just because its fun as hell to me.
Cats and fox...almost 100% shotgun for me nowdays, if thats what Im going after. If I have a cat come in while calling coyotes with the rifle, thats the exception really.
Im not into the super tight chokes anymore either. I shoot a more modified type choke. Specifically, a Kicks Hi Flyer, that shoots steel lead or tungsten. My success has been pretty good, less misses than when I ran a real tight choke, cant say a huge deal, but I feel real confident with it.
Thats about all I got.
Mark
Edit: Except..I still do not carry both a rifle and shotty on stand...done it for years and its great, and you will kill more, but I just cant stand carrying that much stuff.
Double edit: Still know guys that think they want a Savage Model 24 (I think it is?) the over under rifle/shotgun. Pretty lame choice imo.
[ April 12, 2016, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 12, 2016, 11:58 AM:
Like Mark mentioned all I use is a Modified Choke too. With a Carlson Extended Choke tube....... I used Dead Coyote T shot alot but I ain't paying 50+ dollars for 10 shotshells. I also tried Hornady BB'S. But had to many jump up and run and need follow up shots. Now I just use cheap Remington lead 4 Buck puts them down very well, and it doesn't break the bank.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on April 12, 2016, 01:29 PM:
I noticed the red dot sight has made a big difference for me. I pick it up way better than a bead. For now I will continue to run the DC T loads. For control jobs I can justify the cost with what I charge per coyote. It still amazes me how well it kills. I would like to try #4 buck and will pattern it out of my shotgun this summer when time permits and if I can find a load that patterns well and kills just as good I will make the switch. I have wondered if going to 3.5" 12 gauge and Winchesters #4 buck load would be any improvement. My old neighbor came over and we patterned his shotgun out to 60 yards and was impressed but he also has 54 pellets working for him. He was running a Mossberg 935 shotgun. My 3" shotgun only has 41 pellets so a big enough pay load difference to consider. I will let him run his for a season or two to see how well he likes his before making the switch. I will definitely be using it for fur season this year in the thick stuff and wonder how much my cat harvest will increase.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 12, 2016, 01:31 PM:
I read an article in one of the rags this month all about the trend to custom factory loads. Yeah, right. I still don't give a shit if I ever kill another coyote with DEAD COYOTE, if I have to pay their price; which is ridiculous!
I think the best coyote shotshell is 3" Winchester DoubleXX #4 Buck. I have no confidence in any shot diameter less than #4 Buck, regardless of the velocity. No BB, T or any other alphabet, so, I think #4 is about 25 caliber? That's what's needed, not some custom load of three different sizes of shot.
I have a tripod attitude about chokes, too. They are too damned expensive to try every one on the market. I have one that seems to work and I'm not burning up $50 worth of DC to find out which choke is not to spread and not too tight, but just like Goldie Locks....just the right pattern. If there not be holes in the middle of the pattern, it's good enough. A shotgun is an imprecise tool, they say?
When I slacked off on contest hunting, I pretty much stopped carrying a rifle and shotgun on stand. Pretty much meaning not always. There are some shotgun/rifle stands, and there are a lot more rifle/shotgun stands. And, sometimes, I don't give a shit.
But, shotgunning is a frame of mind. I have never been all that much afflicted with the disease. It's just that some cover screams shotgun. The problem is when surprised by a shotgun coyote on a rifle stand. As was stated so clearly, previously, I just hate to see a coyote get away, especially one that should not have.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: Brent, I'm kind of using a similar set up, I have an EOTech 552 on my Mossberg835. It takes a little getting used to but I like it.
[ April 12, 2016, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on April 12, 2016, 06:38 PM:
Hunting in eastern Oregon without a shotgun seriously handicaps a guy. There's a lot of thick sagebrush that holds a lot of coyotes.
Since there aren't any laws regarding lead shot here as yet I shoot Winchester 3 1/2" #4 buckshot. The first time I tried Dead Coyote in my 3 1/2" gun I watched several hard hit coyotes get up and run off into the thick sage where I never recovered them so I quit using it. General wisdom says to automatically fire off a second shot without even thinking.
One coyote I shot with the Dead Coyote stuff came in to about 30 yards and was staring out from the edge of the sage. I put the bead on his nose and pulled the trigger. The shot lifted him off his feet and spun him around and he hit the ground. I thought he was dead so I started to stand up. The coyote ran off and I never saw it again. I still have a few boxes of the Dead Coyote stuff in the garage.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 12, 2016, 08:56 PM:
I've been a fan of the shottie for a long time.
Pumps, o/u & even a Model 24 now & then. I generally feed 'em copper plated lead BB.
> Cheap choke advice;
Those chokes that will kill coyotes out to >60 yards are going to give you a pattern about the size of your fist at the close ranges that you brought the shotgun along for in the first place.
Miss a running coyote at 10 yards and (1) Someone will be along with you to see it, and (2) They will tell everyone you know about your shooting skills.
Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on April 13, 2016, 03:41 AM:
It's interesting to read everyone's difference experiences. Just like rifle bullets it appears that what works for one guy doesn't for another.
I know DC is expensive but for some stuff I am required to use lead free. Don't see any choice there. However for everything else it isn't a requirement I will look at some #4 buckshot loads and see what I can get to pattern well.
I tried Hornadays Magnum coyote load in BB and it didn't pattern well in my shotgun.
As far as those 10 yards misses well I almost never hunt with anyone except the dog! He might bitch and whine to me about missing but I'll be pretty sure the story stays with us! When I did want a hunting partner I couldn't find one! Now there are a few guys that would like to go but I'd rather take the dog. Things can happen fast with one and its important to keep an eye on the dog and the coyote before pulling the trigger.
I am using a Trijicon MRO its a small sight but it's been working great so far. I've look thru several EOTechs and they are nice.
[ April 13, 2016, 03:48 AM: Message edited by: Brent Parker ]
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 13, 2016, 06:51 AM:
lol yes, for years and years you look for a partner to come along and hunt coyotes, but everyone thinks your a nut for hunting coyotes, so its a solo effort for the most part. Then all of a sudden people are knocking your damn door down to go coyote hunting every day. By then, your so used to going by yourself you just dont give a shit.
Mark
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on April 13, 2016, 07:40 AM:
I shot tournament trap for a lot of years and my first love as far as hunting goes is waterfowl and upland birds. For me, putting some device on my shotgun for the purpose of aiming it restricts the shooter to what you can see without it. Besides, shotguns aren't meant to be aimed but pointed. Aiming takes time and when your target is moving rapidly away you stand a better chance of missing.
But.......different strokes for different folks.
I used to shoot a minimum of 1000 rounds per week when I was competing. Both in practice and for the money. I only know one way to shoot a shotgun and it makes no difference if it's clay, a flying bird or a running coyote. Both eyes open, point and shoot, follow through.
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on April 13, 2016, 07:42 AM:
BTW....I like hunting with good friends where really no one cares who takes the shot at a coyote but when you're hunting by yourself you don't have to share and that's kinda fun, too.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 13, 2016, 08:46 AM:
I'm no Lone Wolf when it comes to hunting coyotes. I started out almost from the start oriented towards contests and that is pretty much a team effort. I enjoy the company and the thing is, the way we get into the weeds, you really need a partner to steer while you push, etc. I've seen some real clusterfucks while out in the boonies and I really believe that two heads are better than one.
I think m attitude applies to most any hunting and fishing endeavors. I'd rather have somebody to share the experience; but not just "somebody".
I have had a couple of very unpleasant experiences. In one case, this man drove me nuts and I told him to turn this truck around and head for home, and not another word was spoken for 600 miles. Then, pulling off the ramp and gassing up a mile from both our homes, he attempted to ask WTF? It was so deep that I just told him to forget it. There is one person who might read this and think it's about him, but the guy is dead.
I really like the company on a hunt but when it don't work it really doesn't work.
Moe, here's the thing. Some of us are born shotgunners and your comments are valid. But, there is a certain number of folks that just aren't born that way and there is a solution in mounting one of those contraptions. It may never make a true shotgunner out of me but we all have to work with what we got.
It's hard to believe the way we have let fucking idiots tell us what to do, as far as restrictions on lead shot. It's been a long time in coming, but right now, I can't believe how the law could put me in jail for using #4 buck on coyotes, here in The People's Republik. And, sure as I'm standing here, what happens in Kalifornia will happen in Arizona in a few years. They don't like it, but they follow along the trends, good and bad like puppy dogs.
So, as far as I'm concerned, we have been shooting lead shot and rifle bullets for 200+ years and nobody has proved that it has actually caused any harm; it's a matter of faith, like GLOBAL WARMING. Yet, these idiots write laws based on nothing but religious conviction; why of course, lead is harmful. And we are forced to prove a negative.
Of course, it's doubtful we will ever elect another Republican in The Land of The Fruits and The Nuts, so with that, I brighten your day.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: in coyote hunting as in no other sport, it's a team effort. Nobody cares who killed it. And, as far as missing one, I'm just glad it wasn't me that let the team down. A good partner is a valuable thing. I have only had two, in the many years I have chased after predators. Right now, I don't have one. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
my son lives in Colorado. So, unless "somebody" invites me, (you know who you are)
edit: just thought about this. I once needed 4 of the 2 3/4" #4Buck Remington shotshells to kill a coyote. Not enough.Of course, at night, after killing a coyote with a shotgun, we always continued the stand, but for sure kept an eye on those dead coyotes. Sure enough, a few got away and a few stood up on shaky legs and needed another round.
[ April 13, 2016, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 13, 2016, 09:45 AM:
Agreed, Ive had a couple guys that were good calling partners in the past, but for one reason or another, they move on. Most guys lose interest I guess, no money, or their wives put their foot down or whatever.
I said I didnt give a shit, but I really do enjoy calling with others, and having fun and sharing the misery of it all. Getting the vehicle stuck or otherwise breaking down is scary when you are by yourself out in the middle of nowhere, far from home. That is my #1 fear I guess. Ive hunted in some sketchy places in a few different states, come up on some crazy, weird individuals and groups...but breaking down/getting stuck is still my greatest fear for some reason? Ive been shot at, been in a couple fights, had a pistol pulled on me..all that..but I hate getting stuck most of all!!
I am just an average shotgun shooter, I just run beads, and do ok with it. Low light is a challenge sometimes but I do ok with a point and shoot method.
Mark
[ April 13, 2016, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 13, 2016, 10:03 AM:
Don't sweat the getting stuck or breaking down. It happens. But it hasn't killed me, or anyone I know with half a brain, yet. The ones it has killed, that I know of, were just idiots.
- DAA
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 13, 2016, 11:22 AM:
I just got in from some coyote shotgunning. Shot about 40 in the last two days. The new Hornady BB load is great in my opinion. And that's what I've been shooting. It has a different wad and to get a good pattern you need to shoot a improved cylinder choke or modified at the tightest. The other shell to look at that won't kick your teeth out is the Federal 2 3/4 inch 4 buck 34 pellet load. It works. My latest shotgunning also involved a Robinson R66 turbine. I highly recommend them for shotgun coyote hunting! You can pay by the hour like we do, about 800 bucks an hour or just buy it outright for about $850,000. Either way.
[ April 13, 2016, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 13, 2016, 11:50 AM:
Lol!
[ April 13, 2016, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 13, 2016, 11:53 AM:
Cal..what sights are you running on a shotgun when shooting from the sky?
Mark
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 13, 2016, 12:12 PM:
Normally I run my M2 Bennelli and speed bead. But this ship requires a right hand eject so I borrowed a buddy's Super Black Eagle with normal bead. It doesn't matter much, but as stated above you don't really want to "aim". I tend to want to, so the speed bead helps me. I keep both eyes open and point and the red dot just "appears" and seems to help me.
Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on April 13, 2016, 12:19 PM:
Cal,
Always thought that would be great to try from the plane but for us it's an APHIS or nothing deal here. I'll try a couple of different chokes with the BB load to see if I can't get them to shoot better. For me 40 yrds. was iffy. I had heard the 2 3/4 load was what a lot of guys flying liked. What do you figure your average shot distance is in the plane?
Leonard the dog is a partner, never complains and always happy to go. Been stuck a few times and once had to walk out but normally you can get yourself out. I do believe in two spares though.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 13, 2016, 12:37 PM:
My guess is 40 to 60 Brett. I pattern mine at 40 and get about a two foot by 2 foot pattern with those Hornady BBs. Things can get too close in the helicopter as the pilots try to "help" too much sometimes. When you see your shells blowing holes in the ground about the size of a doorknob! They get too close and you can't swing and just as well be shooting a rifle.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 13, 2016, 12:50 PM:
quote:
I do believe in two spares though.
Or, if space is a problem, a whole coffee can full of plugs and glue and the tools to install them; even in a sidewall! <eek> I remember one time on the border, I think I jammed about four heavy cords into a sidewall with an inch and a half sticking out on both sides, but afraid to dress it up.
Another thing is crawling under replacing a Ujoint in muddy water with 100degree temperature. There was the time I got a split in the corner of my main gas tank, discovered it and jury-rigged it before I lost it all with many miles to get back to civilization. Nevada is like no other place, where you want to be sure that you have enough gas before getting off the pavement. I don't think I have ever walked more than ten miles? Just lucky, I guess?
What I hate is going with people that are completely unprepared! No tools, no spare parts and not a care in the world. These are very lucky people, for the most part because there is always somebody like me along to bail them out. And, they never learn. When I know, I won't go with them unless I drive. I might not have much, but I can solve a few basic things...they don't even pack a shovel, fer cripes sake!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 13, 2016, 01:08 PM:
Hey Cal,
All I can say is it must be a different world coming in behind them from the air? I used to use Federal BBs a 2 oz load many years ago but found 6 or 8 shells that do a better job and only two of them 3 1/2" loads. I really feel that a 41 pellet 3" is all I need for 40 yard work. I can't remember the last time I tried to kill a coyote with a shotgun @ 60 yards? If they make it that far, they've won, as far as I'm concerned.
Let me see? First you have $800 and these incredible Hornady BBs, X 40 animals, without a miss and at least a dollar a shot, right? I gotta say, I'd sure like to try it, some day. When I win the Lotto. Oh right, just remembered, it's supposed to be illegal for an ordinary taxpayer to shoot from an aircraft, right? Taxes, I just put it in the mail today. Wonder who I'm supporting this year? Oh I know I'm supporting Cruz, I mean some poor deserving undocumented immigrant....who sends half of it back to Mexico for his other family. We sure are suckers. But the Liberals tell us that those babies need milk. Yeah, right.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 14, 2016, 03:34 AM:
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 14, 2016, 03:42 AM:
P.S.
Just trying to be funny! I've literally shot one coyote and a handful of fox with a shotgun, therefore have zero input on the matter. Although I did put a Burris Speed Bead on my SBE on Cal's recommendation, and use it for turkey hunting with a tight azz Kick's GT choke. Really helps ya "aim" a tight pattern into a gobbler's jelly head while maintaining a 'co-witness' with the factory bead/rail. That's something other red dot/reflex optics do not allow for. With the Speed Bead, you can still cheek down & swing thru a moving target, as the "dot" in the optic is literally superimposed behind the front bead...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 14, 2016, 06:40 AM:
There goes another stereotype! I would have thought anybody from back east, for sure NY would be a dedicated tripod shotgunner? Next thing you aren't voting for Hillary? But talk like Bernie, right? All so confusing!
Remember, when HMFIC picks on ya, means he likes ya.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on April 15, 2016, 09:40 PM:
Brent, is your dog bringing them back into shotgun range? I've given up the shotgun because of the dogs. What we do is different, no doubt, but I've been sure that dogs and a shotgun in AZ brush were bad juju. Not so?
Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on April 16, 2016, 07:05 AM:
Jim,
For years I thought the same thing and was adamantly against a shotgun and dog, but I thought well all that can happen is the coyote gets away. Yes the dog has been bringing them back into shotgun range. It has worked surprisingly well to! I have had a few that I had to wait on to shoot till the dog was clear. Its also the reason I prefer a tighter choke. I'd rather a couple get away than hit my dog. Give it a try you might be surprised. I killed a pair the other night in some tight brush and I'm sure the dog made a difference on the second one.
Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on April 16, 2016, 01:00 PM:
Just thinking a loud here.
I think it was mentioned somewhere ? in one of these threads about calling coyotes out of the thick stuff in NV ?
I can relate. Never really had luck calling coyotes out in the open in the Owyhee country.
Many call it the ION. Idaho/Oregon/Nevada area. I've always been a fan of a short light rifle with a 2x7 scope.
Always thought a rifle probably 243 with a 16" barrel & a 1x4 scope would be perfect.
Never have done it though. For some reason, I can't wrap my mind around a shotty for yotes.. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I can't explain it..
Posted by Mert Bargenquast (Member # 772) on April 18, 2016, 05:05 PM:
I love using my Benelli SBE 3.5 inch on coyotes. I have shot them up to 77 yards on the run. I had a bunch of WW 3.5 inchers that I used to begin with. I think that is what I used on the 77er. I now use either WW No 4 Buck or Heavy Shot t's. I have never had one get away. Sometimes I throw some 3 inch WW copper plated 2's in that I have had for years and follow up with 3.5's. I have a magazine tube extention which works well. I stalked a coyote laying on a terrace this last winter and got within about 10 yards before he broke. I shot him at about 20 yards with a 3 incher. It didn't kill him instantly and gave him another to finish the job.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 19, 2016, 05:41 AM:
For me, while I initially thought that 3 1/2" shotshells were the cat's ass, I don't like the cycling. I don't like the expense, either. If I saw wonderful terminal performance, that's one thing but what seems to me is a few more steel pellets? Otherwise, 3" shells seem to be adequate enough, at reasonable distance? I am not worried about 77 yard shots, if they are that far, they have won, as far as I am concerned.
So, I shoot 3" shells in a gun chambered for 3 1/2" shells and the advantage, they say is the backboring of the Mossberg barrel helps with deforming and patterning. But, other than expense, it bothers me that the longer shells tend to snag, chambering , as well as ejecting.
My opinion has evolved to the point that I think 3 1/2" shells are great for geese, but for reasonable coyote killing @ 30-40
yards, I'm not very impressed, now that the novelty has well worn off.
If only I was a natural shotgunner! But, I should be satisfied as a rather more than adequate rifle shot on game.
And, that brings up a point. I was watching something last night, I think it's called "Life Below Zero". Those people do a lot of missing! Another stupid thing is thanking the animal, the brother of something? But, I see a deliberate attempt by the producers to make it look like all these hunters are not far different than ELMER FUDD. And, ground sluicing, at that! Ammunition in Alaska is probably not cheap, and the angle is subsistence, but 3-4 shots per duck does not seem economically reasonable? Cheaper to buy a chicken!
end of rant....
Good hunting. El Bee
[ April 19, 2016, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 19, 2016, 06:45 AM:
Yes...70-80 yarders? If they get away I salute them. Use the rifle.
I also watch those Alaska shows once in a while, and even my wife is like "why cant these guys ever hit anything?",,,you would think that if you spend years attempting to live off the land and survive, you would have a decent fuckin rifle and be able to shoot it?
Mark
Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on April 20, 2016, 12:08 PM:
Luckily I don't have television service so I'm not bothered by it, but I can see were a 3.5" shell for the extra payload could help. If it reliably kills 10 yards farther than my 3" shotgun I'll take it. One thing I'm a sore looser to a coyote and two I would prefer they don't learn anything. However, shit will and does happen so if I can keep it to a minimum I would prefer it. I did shoot one of those Mossberg 935 and will say I felt it was an honest 60 yards shotgun. I didn't pattern it any farther away. I use a paper plate and craft paper to check my patterns. Want to see 5 or 6 pellets at least in the paper plate to call it good. What's everyone else using to determine effective range?
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on April 20, 2016, 12:36 PM:
Speaking from "what I've read", vs. experience. When I setup my 870 with intention of killing coyote with it, I was looking for 10+ in a paper plate with either Dead Coyote or Fed. Prem. #4.
Which... Put my 870 w/DC choke at about a 45 yard gun using the DC load and about a 40 yard gun with the #4 (3" gun).
But... My thoughts, all along, was the same as everything else, try it and see for myself. Reality is always a fair assessment. If I can collect them consistently at 50, or more, even if it means a followup or two, that's great. If that consistent break comes at closer to 40, so be it.
Was just going to start killing coyotes with it and find out "for real" where I'm at.
Maybe I'll actually get around to it this year? Now that I have a tripod setup and all ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
.
- DAA
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 20, 2016, 01:22 PM:
40-45 yards to me is a long ways even with good ammo. Thats just me though. Beyond that I see a lot of double tapping going on regardless of gun/ammo used...which dont matter I guess really.
I dont know...but I always thought the 3.5" 12ga shell was invented to use in the Mossy 835 with the back bored barrel or something like that? I have heard over the years that unless you have that, a 3.5 incher isnt that much more effective than a 3"?
More seems better, but Im not sure how much more is better everything being equal?
Mark
[ April 20, 2016, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 20, 2016, 02:48 PM:
Gentlemen.............
This is not that complicated.
Get in the brush.
Find a `Kill Box` opening about 45 yards across.
Set your caller up about 10 yards out in the opening and about 20 yards from you WHERE YOU CAN COVER IT WITH THE SHOTGUN !!!!!!
Hide in the shade and let the coyote come into the opening.
Put the bead on his nose and yank the trigger.
Watch where he falls but keep calling.
Repeat as necessary and walk back to the truck happy.
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 20, 2016, 03:21 PM:
Umm..no...thats way to simple?
Mark
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on April 20, 2016, 04:35 PM:
My way is much simpler. I was back in the chopper today and I still highly recommend it. I know Vic and Leonard will think it's "too much equipment" but it works so well.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 20, 2016, 05:09 PM:
Also called envy....
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on April 20, 2016, 08:18 PM:
What I use and where I get them.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/productlist?k=3+1%2F2%22+%234+buckshot
I shoot them through a Dead Coyote choke with good results. Anyone can argue 3" over 3 1/2" but consider the 3" has 42 pellets and the 3 1/2" has 54 pellets. More pellet strikes means surer kills.
I have killed plenty of coyotes with my old Remington model 1100 with 2 3/4" shells, too.
Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on April 21, 2016, 03:55 AM:
Also called envy....
I have to agree with Leonard !
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 22, 2016, 07:38 AM:
I'm not any kind of expert, that's for sure. But, looking at the 41 versus (what?) 54 pellets? Does anybody know the actual data when considering exactly how much lead or tungsten can be fired in a 12 gauge bore?
What I mean, somewhere I seem to recall that 2 ounces is pretty much it? Whether it's 54 or 41, what it really is, is two ounces of pellets. Is that right, or not?
So, I have some of that Federal 2oz BB's a partial box out on the shelf. Does anybody load more than 2 ounces in a 3 1/2" shell, or not?
What I mentioned previous was about a longer shell allowing for more steel pellets, but still less than 2 ounces, total.
Does anybody sell a 3 1/2" shell that contains more than two ounces of anything? If not, seems like a 3" shell packed with 41 #4 is (or could be) equal to a 3 1/2" shell. Somebody show me where they are loading more than 2 ounces, because I don't know? This is where a 10 gauge might show superior because I think they load 2 1/4 ounces of shot. Is this correct?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 22, 2016, 08:09 AM:
Dunno about buckshot, but I shoot 3.5" Winny Supreme turkey loads. The #5 pellets I prefer were offered in a heavy 2 1/4 oz. load, or an "High velocity" 2 oz. load. Man that Supreme HV knocks the stuffin' out of a big ol' gobbler! Glad I still have some of that 'old' stuff, as the price for 12ga. turkey ammo is friggn' ridiculous...
Went with the same option for waterfowling, too. Kent Faststeel offers a few different payload options for 3.5" shells. IIRC, I shot 3.5" shells w/1 3/8" oz. of BBs at a higher velocity. Allows for a bit less lead, and and slightly less recoil. And makes Canada & Brant geese rain from the sky...
Kick's chokes kick azz, too!
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 22, 2016, 12:01 PM:
I keep getting an `Apocalypse Now` mental image of Cal in a chopper with some kind of psycho rabbit playing on the loudspeakers.
How friggen' cool would that be ?????
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 23, 2016, 04:29 AM:
Yeah, I can just about see that.
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on April 26, 2016, 07:16 PM:
Read the first sentence of Cal's post, and just started laughing out loud. Knew exactly where he was goin'.
Well thanks for that bit of encouragement, Brent. I feel bad just looking at that M1S90 propped up in the safe. Since I refuse to call when it's hot, those pot lickers run a bunch off anyway. I guess a few more in spots I haven't even been bothering with wouldn't hurt anything. I'll give it a whirl again next go 'round.
BTW, I use 3" Remington Magnum in 4 buck and a DC choke. When I was doing it regular, if I couldn't get a coyote closer than 50 yards, I wouldn't shoot unless I was real confident in getting a second shot off before it could hit cover. I don't do anything with them, but I hate not seeing them dead.
[ April 26, 2016, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: jimanaz ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 27, 2016, 05:30 AM:
In reviewing some of the above, in a way, we just about have all the bases covered, do we not?
Question asked about patterning. I'm too damned cheap to do a whole lot of patterning for coyotes. 40 yards at a spread out sheet of newspaper, kind of center of mass, and that's all I need to see.
Another thing is, I am not looking for my maximum effective range. I don't know what it is because I just won't shoot past 40 yards, if I can help it. Seen too many coyotes hit in the ass as they dive into the weeds and then never find them. Not really, because I learned that lesson a long time ago and don't need to keep relearning it. On a cripple, that's different.
But, there is much confidence in seeing all that goo draped on the creasote and backlit by the morning sun; if you get my drift? 3" #4Buck @ 40 yards seems to work fine, for me.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on April 27, 2016, 10:04 AM:
Going forward all shotgun threads are banned.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Mark
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 27, 2016, 12:09 PM:
Glad that we got that settled.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 28, 2016, 05:36 AM:
Yeah, but I really hate control freaks....
UBB.classicTM
6.3.0
