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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 15, 2015, 06:57 AM:
So, we've been experimenting with ladders to fill a void. We have lots of flat dense terrain in southern AZ. If you squat down , you can't see shit, but if your elevated, the world opens to you.. Hopefully, this will bring a few more bobcats at the end of the season.
My buddy built this 6 foot aluminum ladder. We worked with it yesterday and we concluded it's too tall and too loud. My version will be a fiberglass 5 foot which may be the cats meow. Just may use for the competition on the 24th..
For those that have done it all, did you like ladders?
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 15, 2015, 07:15 AM:
I have never messed with one at all. Have thought about it - there are some places I think I could make it work, but never too seriously.
Only posting to say there used to be a guy on the boards years ago from AZ, Michael J. McCasland. He was a ladder guy. Wrote a lot of posts about it. As I recall, he was sold on wood, over fiberglass or aluminum?
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 15, 2015, 08:27 AM:
Yes, and don't call him, Mike. His partner, Bill Rice is actually the ladder Guru. But, anyway.
My ladder is wood and painted black. I Gorilla glued ALL the joints and pivots and it is as solid as possible, without outriggers.
The problem is hauling it in and out, and of course, carrying it. Those are minor problems, once you open it up in sandy soil. Just make sure it's solid before climbing.
Two schools of thought. One is to sit on the top with feet supported on the next lower step.
The other is to just go up a couple steps and rest your arms and lean over the top, which will maybe limit visibility, but it's a hell of a lot steadier, (for shooting) and safer, (for falling)
I can say this much. A ladder is great for special applications, like endless Creosote Forest. The rest of the time, it's really a pain in the ass finding room in the truck. Maybe not, if you have an open bed?
Now, my old buddy, Rob Krause built a rig on the back bumper and tailgate of a Forerunner and traveled with it in the upright position, (not open, of course) and that way, it was the first thing set aside, while dragging the rest of the gear out of the back.
I'm sure an inventive person can come up with things to make it more better, as they say in the southwest. Now, two ladders are just stupid difficult.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 15, 2015, 08:54 AM:
Don't use 'em myself, but somewhere I've seen a camoed up aluminum ladder that had been filled in with Great Stuff foam filler to deaden the sound.
Not sure how well it worked, but it shouldn't add much weight.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 15, 2015, 09:06 AM:
Now, I'm starting to worry about you! That's YOUR ladder, and it's right where you left it, on stand, last month!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 15, 2015, 09:54 AM:
I'm surprised no commented on the Lazy Susan!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 15, 2015, 11:24 AM:
Oh, I saw it. But, you didn't either, so?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on January 15, 2015, 11:36 AM:
Some guys have built tripods and lug those around. Ive used a ladder and it does help (a lot) in those certain areas, but man...what a pain to carry in if your going very far. So much so for me that I probly wont bother anymore. I saw a guy last year over by the 395/178 area that had a wood ladder with a wheel attachment on the bottom, and some sort of rope/harness that he pulled it with while walking in. Dont know how well that would work, but looked viable.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 15, 2015, 11:47 AM:
Say the turn table too but thought that's SOP for a ladder and not unusual?
Leonard, 10-4 on "Mike"! Called him that once, meant no harm, acted like I'd gone out of my way to personally insult not only him, but his mother!
- DAA
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 15, 2015, 02:08 PM:
For what it's worth..........Like I said, I don't use 'em;
`If` you're using a ladder on established stand locations, why not use cheap ladders & leave them in place? Maybe use a couple of cable stakes (trapper lingo) to keep them from blowing away.
Check with your local recycling lot for serviceable ladders for the price of scrap metal. The lot that I worked at had them coming in regularly.
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on January 15, 2015, 02:21 PM:
Thats an idea..
Like my rifle I left out in the desert so I wouldnt have to lug it to the stand anymore..
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/15/132-year-old-winchester-rifle-found-propped-under-desert-tree/
Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 15, 2015, 03:03 PM:
DAA, thanks for the feedback on wood..good call.
Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 15, 2015, 03:05 PM:
Just for the record, I shot that coyote.. The lazy Susan worked quite well.. Came from extreme left
[ January 15, 2015, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 15, 2015, 04:03 PM:
I'll say this; that photo shows a great spot for a ladder stand.
But, swivel chairs are probably not necessary, and they could be a little risky. Just sitting on the top, you know where every ladder sold in the last thirty years prints in large letters, NOT A STEP. And, for sure not a seat. I'm for standing half way up and leaning against the top step.
Good hunting. El Bee
PS that dog charging from the extreme left. I assume a shotgun? That's how Higgins fell off, twisted to point a shotgun at a coyote. Lucky he didn't break a leg, but he did get hurt.
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on January 15, 2015, 05:20 PM:
This is how I rolled.
They make a lot of uncallable spots callable.
I killed a bunch of coyotes from a ladder, but mostly I used a rifle.
Here's one way I used to carry mine.
They work. It's a good tool in flat, thick country. Be careful. Falling over is no fun.
These day, I carry one of these instead. Much easier to pack, and I'm gonna say just about as effective for coyotes. Cats, foxes, and such, not so much.
That should cover my hero pictures for a while.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on January 15, 2015, 06:07 PM:
Not trying to be toooooo "Kleaver" but is using a ladder legal to hunt on in Az or in a coyote contest?
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on January 15, 2015, 06:13 PM:
If it wasn't, I sure as hell wouldn't have hung myself out to dry here. I dunno, maybe the laws have changed since I gave the elevated game up.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on January 15, 2015, 06:28 PM:
Jim, to me it's a great idea, but I would be inclined to look towards one of the newish "gorilla" humped or upside down U shaped ladders that the infomercials run over and over on late nite cable. They are claimed to be more stable.
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on January 15, 2015, 06:31 PM:
If you carry it, Mike, I'll be glad to give it a field test.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on January 15, 2015, 07:11 PM:
Oh yeah, kinda like my lightweight 16' aluminum tree stand that came with a pack harness.
Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 15, 2015, 07:57 PM:
The thread pulled out pics from Jimanaz, very nice!
Yeah, my buddy and I bought two wood ladders which we'll customize.. First, it'll be 5 foot which I feel will still be effective and not as dangerous.. No way I'm falling into cholla!
We'll add primos hunting monopods to help a little.
So many projects, so little time..
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2015, 08:22 AM:
Do my old eyes deceive me or did I just see a photo of Dan (the man) in one of the previous?
In any case, wow. First of all that little scooter changes the whole situation, as far as packing a ladder, in the first place. Second, leave it to our boy to take it to extremes - an EIGHT FOOTER?
Third, he claims to hunt alone, but every morning, on the campout, I saw him and Paul driving off and who knows what they were up to?
Fourth, my partner also wears one of those suits and I can't break him of it. Any suggestions?
Thanks for sharing, that really was some effort. Appreciate it.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: made me ill to read somebody question whether ladders were LEGAL, or not!
edit: students, make note of that support stick he is demonstrating in the first pic
[ January 16, 2015, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on January 16, 2015, 09:00 AM:
We were going out to some known productive locations to be skunked like everybody else.
Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 16, 2015, 09:32 AM:
Paul, you need those new secret sounds that I keep hearing about.. If you get them, send them to me! ;-)
Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 16, 2015, 09:34 AM:
In terms of the support stick, we are going to use a trigger activated primos monopod.. they have a support for the monopod they use in tree stands.. thinking of adding it to the ladder..
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on January 16, 2015, 02:34 PM:
quote:
Do my old eyes deceive me or did I just see a photo of Dan (the man) in one of the previous?
Negative, those are all yours truly before I began to totally boycott razors.
Naw, just 6 1/2 feet. Camera angle makes it look taller than it is.
Paul and I conspired to hit all of his honey holes and show the rest of you how us Arizona boys do it. Hope everybody has a firm understanding now. Thank goodness Russ saved the entire camp from getting skunked. Paul passed on a fox before Bella ran it off. I sure wish he hadn't. Hey, at least I SAW a coyote.
quote:
Fourth, my partner also wears one of those suits and I can't break him of it. Any suggestions?
As a matter of fact, yeah. Call Rancho Safari and order one. Then you won't have to go into In and Out looking like you just came off the set of the latest Rambo movie.
As for the ladder and setup,K.I.S.S. Don't be putting a bunch of shit on it that's going to make it heavier or snag on brush. Packing it is already the biggest PITA of using one. A simple eye bolt of suitable diameter mounted to one of the steps will anchor your fancy shooting stick.
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on January 17, 2015, 07:22 AM:
I saw somewhere where a guy put a swivel bass seat on top of a ladder with a pod in front to steady the rifle. He also added a backpack frame to make carrying the thing easier. I've never used one due to storage issues on my camper truck, but do believe a good five footer that could also be used to climb over barb wire fences could be very useful.
Koko has and aluminum tool that attaches to a steel T post but they don't make those any more. I think someone feel off of and caught his balls on the post and now sings soprano.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 17, 2015, 08:26 AM:
Apparently they are now called a `Safe-T-Stepper` and are still available.
Mine was sold under the name `T-Post Step`
I love the hell out of mine. Can almost cross a fence without breaking stride.
YMMV
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on January 17, 2015, 10:57 AM:
After that campout where you showed me you t post stepper I tried but couldn't find one online. I just assumed they were out of business. BTW: they make a plastic cap to protect your gonads. They would be a good investment to IMHO.
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on January 17, 2015, 10:58 AM:
Dammit KOko, I found them but they are currently sold out.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 17, 2015, 11:56 AM:
Most coyote round here are so hinky by the middle of hunting season that a decently elevated deer stand isn't high enough to keep one from seeing you and bugging out. I've tried just about everything that has been suggested here over the years, that's legal in Kansas to do, but drew the line on the ladder concept. Probably missing out on something, but my li'l voice tells me to not waste my time. Besides, I already have everything that will tote sumpin totin' sumpin.
As far as fence crossing, we are forced to do that as much as we sit down. Sometimes twice as much, since you have to walk in, and walk out for each stand. Kevin and I have noticed that our legs keep getting a little shorter each year, and the crotches on our cammy overalls show it. Looked at a number of simple homebrew ideas to make the process a little less difficult, but only because it's bad form for your partner to reach under and hoist your nut sack over that last inch of wire as a matter of courtesy.
I considered cutting garden hoses into three foot lengths, slitting them open lengthwise and placing them over the top wire to cover the barbs. Just leave them there for the entire season. Put them out the first time you go to a place and you oughtta have most places covered within a matter of the first few weeks of hunting. We hunt the same 6,000 spots over and over, so how big a deal can it be. Or, use a three foot length of heater hose that you carry in and out with you each time, because garden hose would be hard as a rock in cold weather. Heater hose would be cost prohibitive to use for a LOT of places and used garden hoses are very available come Spring when people are replacing theirs for the summer.
Another idea we had was to fashion two short chains, about 6 inches or so - no longer - with small hooks on each end that could be used to hook the top wire, pull it down to the second of third from the top, wrap it and secure the other hook to hold the top wire down midway between two posts, making it easier to cross a fence and be able to still use your hands for balance rather than be trying to balance and hold the wire down at the same time. Two of these would be handy to allow you to tie the second wire and top wire together at the top and the third wire to those beneath it to create a "cross through".
Pretty much solutions in search of problems, but I'm 50 now and not the gymnast I used to be. Crossing at a T-post is always dangerous because of the wobble and no stepper thingy can stop that. Had a horse once that reared up and came down on top of one, impaling herself through the brisket. Don't wanna look like that. Probably make the same Gawd awful sound if and when I did.
As to those special sounds, killed number 82 yesterday for the season using them and I will say that this particular library is unique in that Rick Paillet edited them in such a way as to leave intact certain aspect of the sound sequences and cadence that are usually edited out by other sound sources, such as gasps, grunts, and other sound that defy description. I've heard a LOT of jacks die before and this library is about as spot on as it can be in recreating that sound as accurately as possible.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2015, 12:16 PM:
Saw lanky dudes like Les Johnson cross a barbed wire fence, just stepping over it without hardly breaking stride.
But, here's a question. Do you separate middle wires for a partner, crawl underneath while he pulls up on the bottom strand, go up and over the teebar, solo? I don't need anybody holding my nutsack, thank you. Must be a Kansas thing?
.... Sorry Lord, and be with the pygmies.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on January 17, 2015, 01:04 PM:
I'm skinny, 6'3, long ass legs. Stepping over fences is usually no problem...but I use a sitting pad with a canvas cover that a buddy made, to drape over the wire. Sort of a dual purpose piece of equipment.
Mark
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on January 17, 2015, 01:05 PM:
If a partner can't step over, I separate the wire for them to step thru.
If someone's sack is in danger...well,they are on their own.
Mark
[ January 17, 2015, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 17, 2015, 01:43 PM:
Here's my ladder. A few more details to work out, but ready for some action..
Turns out, the wood ladder was a piece of crap, just too wobbly.
I switched back to a fiberglass 250 lb rated and its solid as a rock. The feet have wider pads which will reduce the risk of me falling into a freakin cholla ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Actually, its a little lighter than the wood for its size!
One mod that I want to do is install a platform to rest my feet and monopod. Secondly, a way to hold the monopod in case I need to swing hard left or right..
Its five feet and I think its going to kick some ass.
No lazy susan, because I'm not lazy and my name isn't susan.
[ January 17, 2015, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 17, 2015, 02:55 PM:
Yeah I'm like Lonehowl, I'm 6'2" and don't usually have problems with fences.And my brother is my main calling partner and he's 6'4" so yeah isn't really an issue.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2015, 03:58 PM:
Fur, <sigh>
I mentioned before that I use a wood ladder. It was such a piece of shit, I had given it to my son and after abusing it, he gave it back. I gorilla glued EVERYTHING. Under, over steps and every brace. That ladder is now as solid and unwobbly as ANY fiberglass or aluminum ladder, probably better? It's a safe, first class ladder, at this point and the paint won't flake off like aluminum.
A lot quieter than aluminum, too
Good hunting. El Bee
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 17, 2015, 04:10 PM:
LB, it is fiberglass , not aluminum , which is a game changer..
Wood is better for painting and sound damping , but the sound damping of fiberglass (at least this design) is good..
My buddy's aluminum ladder in the first pic of the thread is awful loud and your right, after a day of hunting there's tons of required touch ups..
Overall, very happy. Rock solid without having to worry about breaking gorilla glue joints with my big ass.. The design is much higher quality and it does not weigh more..
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2015, 04:21 PM:
Ok, but that top step will melt in Arizona! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
edit:PS I like your yard. I have two Palo Verde's myself.
[ January 17, 2015, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 17, 2015, 05:05 PM:
I like your yard also. This sounds dumb, I guess that's what everybody does there, no lawn ?
I spent a few days in Scottsdale in 1998 for work meetings and such. It was late October, tried to drive around a little before dark, to see the land. Didn't notice any grass ?
That's my only brief experience in Arizona.
Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 17, 2015, 06:06 PM:
Yup, that's the front yard alright..
Its really stupid to have grass in Tucson!
By the way, the grass is my backyard.. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2015, 07:22 PM:
My cousin used to live in central Phoenix and had a nice lawn. Of course, she had to get up at ungodly hours to flood the yard, which had a berm/curb all the way around it to hold maybe 6-8 inches of water, once a week. I think it is/was called the Salt River project? Kind of interesting.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on January 18, 2015, 07:48 AM:
I tried one out, artfully painted camo also,here in the tall sage and I gave up on it after awhile as it was such a pain in the ass to pack around in that tall stuff. I spent more time cussing than calling I think. Never did see a coyote while attempting to use it and straddling that top and last rung led to some funny crashes do to my superb ability to stay balance on that contraption.
Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 18, 2015, 09:56 AM:
I'm getting to be where I hate yards !!
I think I started mowing grass when I was about 10 ? so that's 40 years of mowing.
My brother's pad over in central Oregon on 1 acre is sage and junipers. Zero yard work !!
Leonard she was probably on what they call flood irrigation, in nearby Caldwell in the older part of town, they have concrete water boxes on their lot corners. They go out and turn a valve and the water floods over the box. Same thing about 6"-8" of standing water they let soak in, once a week also I think ?
Almost everywhere else around here we irrigate off the same irrigation system the farmers use. Just turn on a valve in the spring and let the automatic sprinklers go.
It's about $50-$100 a year depending on lot size. Otherwise there is no way we could afford city water.
[ January 18, 2015, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 18, 2015, 10:18 AM:
Hate to tell you what my water bill is every month! And, they have a bond measure coming up. Tell you what, only a fool votes for bond measures that continue forever. Sure, raise the gasoline tax, no point in everybody enjoying cheap transportation. We have bridges to repair, potholes to fill. They are taxing the hell out of my social security. Thanks, Pelosi!
We have one of the worst education programs in the country, and the most expensive. They could make it better if only we spend more.
Good hunting. El Bee
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