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Author
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Topic: Rimfires...
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted November 13, 2014 11:04 AM
Okay I know this is probably an old and over-spoken on topic, and one that if I went searching elsewhere I could find enough information to help make (*what for me is) a difficult choice. But, here goes, anyways.
So... if you were (legally) forced to use a rimfire rifle, for mostly red foxes, 'cats, and the very occasional coyote, what caliber and what bullet/manufacturer would you choose?
*I found where DAA spoke of using his HMR and the Berger and Kindler bullets. Are these factory loaded or homespun?
Are there many choices of rifles made, yet, chambered for the .17WSM?
Would a 22Mag be so much cheaper to buy (and feed) that it negates the "value" of the .17cal firearms?
Have the shortages of 22lr ammunition had similar effects on the price and availability of it's speedier cousins?
Tim,
I don't care what you think, so don't bother e-mailing Leonard a response. Thanks but no thanks.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted November 13, 2014 11:08 AM
I think the Savage is the only one chambered in .17 WSM right now? Not sure.
I love a .22 mag for fox and cats myself. I guess if I HAD to, Id shoot the occasional yotie with it.
I also use a shotgun a lot, but once in a while they get hung up just a bit far for that.
But, yeah, .22 mag for me.
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted November 13, 2014 02:04 PM
Hmmmm HMR and Kindler or Bergers, that would not be me. Probably not anyone? I use those bullets in .17 caliber centerfires. I think there was a misunderstanding there.
Really don't have enough experience with rimfire and predators to make an intelligent comment. I've never hunted predators with a rimfire on purpose.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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KaBloomR
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4252
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posted November 13, 2014 03:28 PM
I think only Savage chambers the new .17 WSM round. At this point, it doesn't seem to be taking off like wildfire as the little HMR did. I'll bet it would be near perfect for cats and fox looking at the ballistics.
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"It always gets a helluva lot worse before it gets any better"
Posts: 302 | From: Utah | Registered: Nov 2012
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted November 13, 2014 04:18 PM
I can only speculate, that being said. I would think ? a 22-mag with 40-50 gr, soft point bullets might work ? in the right situation.
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 13, 2014 04:24 PM
Not up on the alphabet soup 17 caliber stuff, (and never been interested) but I recall some engineering problems that forced some kind of recall? If the one you speak of is the one being advertised with huge ballistic advantages over the rest of the field, then I suppose it would be a consideration.
Now, the reasons are not clear, to me? Do you have a legal situation specifying "rimfire" only?
Anyway, a 22MAG is pretty good authority, with the right configuration as a short range solution, say past shotgun range out to, approaching a hundred yards. I'm not really on board, but they are accurate enough for head shots. A coyote can take a long time dying, hit in the head with a rimfire, screaming the whole time. Yeah, a pistol right in the ear will settle his hash but not a sure thing from a hundred yards with a rifle.
I'm just about the exact same attitude as Dave, really have no business commenting but since there is no law against it, I'm venturing my feeble opinion. Which is; not the way to go, unless you have no alternative.
Good luck with that, El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted November 13, 2014 05:21 PM
Actually... *I did some more research after posing the question ...Savage, via their B-Mag line, is offering two models chambered in .17WSM (a standard and a heavy barreled model).
Other marques building for the round include; Franklin Armory, with a semi-auto loosely based on the AR platform. And Volquartsen, with another semi-auto that looks a lot like the Ruger 10/22s their so famous for (and, which is rumored to be in the works, at Ruger, as well).
Dave,
Yes there was an is a misunderstanding, on my part.
DAA "I had exactly the same kind of results using my .17 Mach IV with 25 gr. Berger Match bullets."
I mistakenly assumed the Mach IV is a rimfire and further mistook it as that I had read HMR.
My bad.
KaBloomR,
Again, in light of a bit more research, I'm left wondering if the WSM and it's 25gr V-Max projectiles might be too much (or at the very least too fragile of a bullet) for this particular application?
Leonard,
Obviously my own grasp of the alphabet soup isn't all that good. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
The ballistics of the .17WSM is similar to the .17 Hornet (when considering the 20gr projectiles that accompanied the round's debut, even slightly faster).
Yes, I'm looking at hunting in another Eastern State and due to the rules of a particular time of day and/or area I am limited to rimfire chamberings.
In the area in question, a coyote showing up isn't completely out of the realm of possibility, but I'd venture to say that it would be very very rare.
The word is, but I take it with a bit of skepticism this .17WSM can deliver .22Mag performance (accuracy and energy) out to about 225 yards. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Krusty
[ November 13, 2014, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted February 01, 2015 09:21 PM
Bump...
I had started writing a reply, in the other rimfire thread, and would have ended with this part... but after about thirty minutes of typing, I caught myself (writing one of my novels).
This is the somewhat shorter, though still long, answer to: "...he was looking for an affordable Rimfire, just wondering how his search turned out?"
After this thread I did a lot more reading and gathering info on, both, the 17WSM as a chambering, and the rifles being built to fire it.
At this point (well at that point, culminating in some Black Friday dickering) I've chosen to postpone the purchase of a rimfire, for a while.
Like someone said in the other thread "only accurate rifles are interesting" and that covers my situation very well.
The parent cases for the 17WSM are garnered through Olin, who manufactures them for the construction industry... the tolerances aren't anywhere near consistent when compared to that of even low quality ammunition.
Muzzle velocities are varying as much as around 200fps, in what fodder is currently available, and without a voluntary recall by Winchester/Olin, it may be some time before stock of a better quality (and consistency) hits the shelves (if and when they solve this issue).
*People with rifles that are functioning well, as Leonard stated there have been some quality control issues, are shooting narrow vertical strings, further illustrating the velocity issues.
Likewise, given that the only realistically affordable rifles in 17WSM are still not that well made (requiring at the very least a quality wooden replacement stock) I don't feel like the benefits outweigh the risks.
*Benefits seen as doubling range of the 22Mag without significant loss of energy** (see next paragraph), and risks seen as substandard accuracy for my own hunting ethics.
Furthermore, original testing by those who'd write about new chamberings like these was conducted with 25gr projectiles and now the only ammo on the shelves drives a 20gr pill... I'm not willing to be the guy out there "learning if a 20gr .17cal V-max is a good fur gun".
Added to that I've moved, changing States of residence, again, complicating residency/non-residency... which includes a waiting period... so I've decided to forgo hunting and buying of any new firearms, for now.
I have been doing some calling, here and there, mostly urban/suburban daytime stuff in the larger parks or while hiking/scouting around on some of the public hunting lands... foxes are nutty lil critters. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
*Started seeing a lot more reds out in the daytime once we got some snow.
Maryland is better, in my opinion, for hunting and trapping (*especially as far as the rules, and public land access). I can hunt on Sunday!
I'm actually more stoked about the chance to trap here, though.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 02, 2015 08:14 AM
What's the deal, Krusty? You on the lamb or in the witness protection program? I have changed states one time, in 1955.
I'm thinking about doing it again, but no sense in rushing things!
Seventeen is a queer caliber. The guy that invented it should be taken out and shot.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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