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Author
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Topic: An observation
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted July 04, 2024 12:13 PM
Years ago I was reading a post by Bob Wendt who I considered one of the best coyote trappers at the time. He was trapping coyotes in Kansas for the live market and made the statement that he started tending his line at 2am. Lots of guys jumped on him saying that he was running coyotes away from his traps by checking them that early. I agreed. His reply was that coyotes weren't very active from 2am until daylight.
Fast forward a few years and I was night hunting in west Texas. We started at sundown and hunted till daylight for 3-4 weeks straight. What I observed mirrored what Bob had stated. Not every night, but for the most part it was difficult to even catch an eye of any animal after 1-2 am until just before daylight. The calling seemed to go stagnant during that timeframe as well.
So I have come to believe that predators do not go go go all night long. Maybe they get an early meal and decide to rest. Maybe they take this time to sleep in peace because their main predator is not active.
Thoughts?
[ July 04, 2024, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: R.Shaw ]
Posts: 553 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted July 04, 2024 12:38 PM
I think;
If it works for you,
Where you're at,
and when you're at, by the clock & the calendar,
AND you have confidence in it;
Then it's Golden and no one shall deny it's truth !!!! ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7764 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted July 04, 2024 02:54 PM
All I can say mostly is get a thermal it will open your eyes to what's what. What I see is the size of a coyote's area, how many roads are around and what the traffic is like at all times of night and if there is snow on the ground or is it bare.
I walked into stands at night where the coyotes was already out hunting around 9&10 and on to midnight.
I'd see a few out after midnight moving about and then towards sun up. One group of guys here calls to what we call the day walkers, coyotes that out feeding after sunup. As a group I see no set time for them to be out. One spot they come out early and another during winter with snow come out around 3-4 a.m., nothing you can bank on.
But the thing to remember is you don't need to have them out hunting when you go calling at night, you want them in their beds that way you don't bump any as you walk in without doing a scan. hungry or not they will come.
another thing at night if the wind is low or non-existent there will be other critters out feeding most of the night like turkeys, pheasants, field mice, rats, rabbits, deer and coon.
My best night of calling this year was in late feb., had coyotes come in all night long and one at first light and no snow on ground..
Some of the thermal forums usually give a time on when they made kills or called in but you can't always bank on that either cause some guys call early then get home buy midnight so they can sleep a little before work.
[ July 04, 2024, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5225 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 04, 2024 06:49 PM
It's so hard to pattern coyotes, as a whitetail hunter might say. They are motivated by wind and barMETRIC PRESSURE, and of course, the moon phase. There is no doubt that it's also a regional thing. Some people claim that "their" coyotes aren't vocal at all; maybe do to pressure? I've done a bit of hunting wolves and coyotes in northern Canada and the impression I get is the coyotes seem to stay in the tree line, but I'm not sure why? They aren't especially big, as they claim to be in New England-New York, etc. I think Arizona coyotes are maybe 25 pounds. In northern Nevada, where I have killed a few, they probably average at least 5 pounds more and I've seen a few that were around 37-38 pounds.
Desert coyotes are pretty aware of the heat, they are USUALLY callable between the crack of dawn and maybe 10 a.m. and after that you have to be lucky or you picked where they were bedded down. I've called coyotes at night, in a steady rain, which the sparkle makes it hard to pick up eyes. Maybe it's better to sleep it off?
Coyotes around cattle takes some figuring out. It's hard to draw conclusions, even if the cows cooperate. Sometimes they just stare and other times they do a slow stampeed. I often wonder if the selection of a sound is super important. The good old rabbit distress is warn out but still attracts a few, even if they are cautious. It still works. Try cutting the volume to zero, that works sometimes.
I've probably mentioned this before but I came back from Africa with some African sounds and there is one in particular that works very well on coyotes. It's a weird animal called a springbok, completely nocturnal and the eyes light up like a mountain lion. It's only about 10-12 pounds, with huge eyes. But I've called many coyotes with that distress sound.
It's just that hunting coyotes is varied and it's hard to make universal statements because there is so much exceptions. Some folks have beaten the night calling to death and it's not possible to call them, day or night. I've seen large areas where they actually run the other way when they hear a distress of any type. Sometimes they seek high ground, just to observe. It's pretty sad, actually.
I naturally blame newbees and Foxpro for educating coyotes. (for what it's worth) ;D
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31756 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted July 05, 2024 07:22 AM
quote:
I've done a bit of hunting wolves and coyotes in northern Canada and the impression I get is the coyotes seem to stay in the tree line, but I'm not sure why?
Comfort zone Leonard, coyotes like to stay in the shadows when possible. Dakota coyotes where I use to call didn't have tree lines to come in on but relied on fence lines and drainages. In southern Min. if you plan to call in a daytime coyote best bet is along a creek or edge of some CRP. cloudy days seem to help as well but not a given.
At night the game changes they will come across open field, but they tend to stick to shallow spots in the field or little ridges. At night its hard to find the approach areas or see them so you just play the game out and hope you spot them on way in. If you do find a spot with more than one coyote and you happen to kill one take note of how that coyote or coyotes came in as they will use the same approach route the next time you call to them. could call that a given.
Many of the old calling books usually tell you to set up along some sort of cover weather you are calling coyotes, cats or gray fox. I still believe as a coyote approaches if it can't see you, they think you can't see them type of mentality. They get close to the sound then pop up over a ridge or step out from the cover.
I have called some open flat fields then they have no choice but to come straight in, some nice cloud cover helps. Cloudy sky, clear sky they still come in but its how they come in that matters. Full moon they cling to fence line or follow lay of the land that throws off a shadow for them to follow along.
One stand comes to mind that I had nephew along on and then called it a few times on my own.
The coyotes come up out of the creek bed following a fence line going north on shadow side of it then move into a shallow drainage/small ridge and continue north till they come to end of it then they stop for a look and then come straight in on what I would call flat ground. you wait for them to stop and then take the shot.
Have another spot where I call down into a creek and I set up on edge of a abandon farm grove which isn't that far from creek so they willing to cross some open ground to get to the rabbit. There is a shallow water way that's deep enough for them to follow/come in on and they feel comfortable doing it over and over again. one of my multiple stands where I just keep going back to and game plays out the same each time. I go out most every night when wind don't blow and only thing, I look at far as weather is humidity. Moon phases, storm fronts or ends just don't matter and neither does pressure. it really doesn't.
I also have a few coyotes that will just get up and run other direction when caller is played but it's not really the caller that cause them to do this, its the fauker that mag. dumped on them.
I let my nephew do a mag dump on two coyotes in a area I run my dogs as I wanted to come back later and see if I could call them back in or see how they react next time in. I think I already knew the answer before i went back after them, yep a mag dump fucks them up big time.
I did get one of them at a later time, but it took a lot of work to get it and not sure if it's even worth it. Anyway, just everyone keep doing what works and I'm happy for ya..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5225 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted July 05, 2024 08:40 AM
".......... just everyone keep doing what works and I'm happy for ya".
Hallelujah ............. Tim has seen the light !!!
Root Beers all around !!!!! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7764 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 05, 2024 09:22 AM
"mag dump" to me, that refers to an AR. Not only that, but in the short amount of time I experimented with an AR, (including my home made suppressor) I discovered that I vastly preferred the few 20 round magazines I owned to the clumsy 30 rounders.
However, I never was tempted, or needed a "mag dump" because 3 or 4 rounds was enough to settle a coyotes hash. Still, that discovery bothered the hell out of me! Because, while I was trying to anchor a fussing coyote rolling around, his partner was already heading for the hills and I didn't even see the direction. In many parts of Arizona, the cover is such that you are looking for openings, it's hardly ever wide open where you could aim and fire...I don't even know how to explain it! It's not practicable and primarily, NOT POSSIBLE! Even if you had the urge?
I made TWO trips to high density coyote country in an attempt to figure out exactly how to employ a fucking AR15 as a suitable tool for hunting coyotes. Sounds fairly simple? I had a bit of anxiety on the second attempt, already thinking this piece of shit just wasn't suitable for hunting coyotes....as I understood the game! There MUST be some way to use this POS effectively! Allas, it was not to be and I gained a SAFE QUEEN, instead of an effective hunting tool.
But, there was this one time I shall not forget, when I had so many coyotes in front of me that I did a 5 round magazine dump in my little Mode 600, and from that point forward, I was single loading, as I ran the table! (to use a pool player expression) Yes, that was the only "mag dump" I ever experienced. I've told that story enough time, but I have to mention (perhaps for the last time?) that I missed the first shot! In such a hurry, I missed that first coyote that was about to stick his nose in the speaker! But, it could happen to anyone that suddenly had 9 or 10 coyotes in almost a single file streaking across the mud flat. What a cluster fuck! and by the time the dust settled, we had 6 coyotes down, something you might ever see again, even in Mexico! That was a mag dump, in the truest sense! And it suddenly dawns on me that I almost wish I had my AR with me, can you imagine 4 or 5 coyotes rolling around in the mud and the dust, at the same time?
All I can say is that with every opportunity, I never dropped a coyote cleanly with that stupid AR! Every one required at least 3 shots. I've had a long time to analyze my AR15 adventures, brief as they were. I even made up a piece of wood to restrict the capacity to 5 rounds, which ws what I thought the AZ game regulations required. I probably still have it, gathering dust, out in the garage, but these were standard MC issue and I don't recall marking that one with a sharpie, maybe to rattle would be a clue?
Sorry for the ramble! Never know what's going to set me off?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31756 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted July 05, 2024 09:46 AM
"........... 3 or 4 rounds was enough to settle a coyote's hash". ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Damn !!!! ...... I was doing better than that when I was using the much maligned Mini-14.
Even so .... I feel bad that you have to live with the shame of owning an AR and paying taxes on the space it takes up.
Tell ya what I'm gonna do ....... Bring it by my place and I'll give ya a 100 bucks for it, then we can go fishing. Think of the weight lifted from your shoulders and the joy in your heart on your drive back to 'the dream that was once Calif.'.
No need to thank me ..... I'm here to help.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7764 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted July 05, 2024 03:43 PM
quote:
Hallelujah ............. Tim has seen the light !!! [Cool]
Its actually pretty simple Koko and thought perhaps you or others figured it out by now but its ok I'll explain it again.
Coyotes for most part live inside their terr. lines. Agree?
Depending on amount of food source and coyote numbers it will dictate the size of their terr. Agree?
In my part of country its roughly five squares miles if you want to call it that.
West river S.D. where I also called which is just big open pastures terr. size was five by 8 miles give or take.
A road can run along the edge of two terr. or run right down middle of one terr. for aways or just cut through part of it. Agree?
You have a breeding pair of coyotes and say they have 5-8 in a litter and during early and mid-season they all going to be together or close by each other in those five miles. Agree?
First off if you drive a two track and it's not overgrown with weeds then that means someone else is using it besides you. Agree?
So fri. night or fri. day comes along and you drive down that two track making stands, but a weather front is coming in or the stars are not aligned just right so you had very little luck or no luck at all so then you blame the stars or weather. Agree?
Well first thing I think of is what side of the road is one group using or is two track going down the middle of a terr.? At times scat on road will give this away and if you can make out any tracks after they empty out, they give you idea what terr. is theirs, snow really comes in handy and too bad you don't get any once in a while it would really open up your eyes.
The coyotes favoring being close to a two track can already be dead so hey they no longer there and the rest may have gotten pressured back farther into their terr. and why they not hearing or coming to a call.
I used to take an ATV or jeep along on some of my trips so I could get way back into the areas that saw pressure and sure enough they were there, and it didn't matter what time of day, how cold or hot it was or what the weather or stars was doing. Just have to be where they are so they can hear you. so simple a caveman can do it.
Yeah I know you got that nasty thick stuff, just as well move to Cali. then you can go with Leonard to Utah to call coyotes.
Tell you what get dam howler and go out at night and do some locating in one of your favorite spots/areas and then mark location on GPS or just take one of your arrows and put orange ribbon on it and stick it in the ground close to road. come back in the day and lets see how your luck is going to change for the better. try it then we talk. LOL
It will also be a way to find out how good your Weems is or isn't.
[ July 05, 2024, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5225 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted July 05, 2024 11:19 PM
Seems awfully complicated.
Down here, we are blessed with two tracks the run for miles.
Start calling in a known area that 'looks good'.
Make a few stands and observe coyote sign, coyotes responding to the caller and of course, howling.
If nothing is coming in, blame FoxPro and drive on down the road four or five miles and try again until you hit a 'pocket of fur'. It will probably have something to do with water.
Call 'til dark, go home, take a shower, throw something on the BBQ and have a couple of FireBall Martinis. Get a good night's sleep.
Life is good. Agreed ??
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7764 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 06, 2024 11:29 AM
I'm sorry. Here's my corundum, and if it involves misassumptions, then shame on me!
First of all, I DO know the scorn with which anybody residing in The People's Republik are held, or regarded, as the case may be. Sometimes I try to point out that WE INVENTED THIS SHIT! And, it lands on ears that are uncomprehending, as jo jo likes to say. Yes, I'm changing his call sign, just to shake things up, and see where it shakes out.
Where was I? Yes, it is like this, and can I have the attention of the Peanut Gallery for a few? Please!
I will state the obvious: Minneesota and hunting coyotes is incongruous for those of us in the western United States. Never mind that he's been out here once, maybe twice in those high top boots, that really look like they are from Central Casting and Paul Bunyon Country.
Think of it. Telling Arizona folks which way is up!
Okay, OK. Quit with the chuckles! He really means well....and, they are cute when they're little!
Have humor and forbearance, this is not rocket science!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31756 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted July 06, 2024 02:17 PM
Been out there four times Leonard you missed last trip. As for the boots I bought them out there in Cabela's, just standard hunting boot with snake guards to cover shins also work well in the prickly brush. You can't buy them here they are area specific. Oh the shin protectors also work well keep bugs from crawling up pants leg, not an issue here but more out there. I also talked with many snowbirds as you call them, they say AZ. nice place to visit but not a place they want to live year-round, all that sun does things to a person mind. Just take a look at cleaver Gary and you catch on ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ July 06, 2024, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5225 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 06, 2024 04:14 PM
Yeah but, yeah but. Look around, how many locals are kitted out in those LOGGER BOOTS? I'm just giving ya fair warning, on your 5th trip, ditch the logger boots or people gonna laugh at ya. But, do what you are gonna do anyway. If there is one thing we know, it's that TA will do what he wants, even if it's ill advised. You can take the man out of Minnneesota but you cannot take the Minneesota otter the man!
Don't blame me!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31756 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted July 06, 2024 06:52 PM
Not my fault they dress like collage boys or hippies. You think maybe I'm laughing at them also?
Grown men in shorts really gets me chuckling. Reminds me of the English in WWII. and they can't drive worth a shit. Never seen so many cars rolled over in Medium on way out of town. Everything there either bites or sticks you.
One of my bosses has house down there he likes to ride his bike on the bikes trails till a pack of pigs got after him and he crashed his bike trying get away. He said enough of that crap and hasn't ridden since. LOL
Not many farmers up here wear the hats with earflaps much anymore, would have to look hard to find one. But the hat with ear flaps was idea brought here by English/Germans.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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