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Author
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Topic: Shotgun Hunting
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Brent Parker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4354
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posted April 12, 2016 09:16 AM
Until this denning season I have never been much of a shotgun hunter. Have often heard of it referred to as a butchers tool.
The last couple of months have opened my eyes to how effective in the right circumstances a shotgun can be. I am currently running a Benelli M1 3" shotgun with a Carlson Dead coyote choke tube and a red dot sight and either Dead Coyote "T" shot or the Heavi shot goose load "B" shot. I know it's expensive and I wince too when paying for it. However I have killed two at 52,53 yards and both big males went straight down. Coyotes closer are dead before they hit the ground. I run a dog on stand and that had always been my primary concern about a shotgun. I have had to pass up a shot or two because of the dog's proximity but so far nothing has escaped. So far my feelings are in the thick stuff nothing is better, perhaps time and experience will change my thoughts.
Posts: 172 | From: 2 miles east of Vic | Registered: Mar 2013
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted April 12, 2016 09:29 AM
I keep threatening, for years and years now, threatening to go into the thick stuff with a shotgun.
But, instead, for years and years, I just haven't been hunting the thick stuff.
I know plenty of places though, where I know for a fact, there are a lot of coyotes in there. Maybe this year, I'll finally give it a try.
And... As far as it goes. Last year, had an awful lot of kamikaze's that got away. I just can't shoot running coyotes with a rifle like I used to. Had several talks with partners, where we really believed a shotgun on stand would have increased our take. Some days, by a lot.
One problem with all of the above though. I haven't really used a shotgun - for anything - since before the first time I got laid... I don't think I can hit my ass with both hands using one.
Did setup a 3" 870 I found under the bed a few years ago with a Speed Bead and a DC choke. Patterned it, sighted it etc. Never have got around to using it though!
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted April 12, 2016 11:15 AM
I've been using a shotgun faithfully for the last several years and can say I am rarely without one anymore on a stand. Have seen the benefits to many times not to take it with me. I know I have doubled the number of Coyote I've killed. This last fall we called 30 coyotes in on a 4 1/2 day trip and 1/3 of the coyotes killed were with a shotgun and would probably still be out there if it weren't for the shotgun..... One nice thing about shotguns is it changes how you call too. So of those areas that you just pass on by because its to thick is prime ideal calling country with the shotgun..... I use a Benelli M2 with 3" 4 buck and it really lays them down.....
Good Hunting Chad
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted April 12, 2016 11:18 AM
Ive used one for long time, extremely useful to me.. but when the lead ban deal came up here I slowed way down with it. Was doing the DC thing but I aint paying for it no more, I dont care how good it is or how big a budget I have for it...aint doing it. (but it is good stuff!!) Out of state Ill shoot lead.
I have always been a rifle guy, and I can still do the close up stuff with one, still dont feel handicapped as of yet. However....I find myself grabbing the shotgun more and more...even in open country..just because its fun as hell to me.
Cats and fox...almost 100% shotgun for me nowdays, if thats what Im going after. If I have a cat come in while calling coyotes with the rifle, thats the exception really.
Im not into the super tight chokes anymore either. I shoot a more modified type choke. Specifically, a Kicks Hi Flyer, that shoots steel lead or tungsten. My success has been pretty good, less misses than when I ran a real tight choke, cant say a huge deal, but I feel real confident with it.
Thats about all I got.
Mark
Edit: Except..I still do not carry both a rifle and shotty on stand...done it for years and its great, and you will kill more, but I just cant stand carrying that much stuff.
Double edit: Still know guys that think they want a Savage Model 24 (I think it is?) the over under rifle/shotgun. Pretty lame choice imo.
[ April 12, 2016, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted April 12, 2016 11:58 AM
Like Mark mentioned all I use is a Modified Choke too. With a Carlson Extended Choke tube....... I used Dead Coyote T shot alot but I ain't paying 50+ dollars for 10 shotshells. I also tried Hornady BB'S. But had to many jump up and run and need follow up shots. Now I just use cheap Remington lead 4 Buck puts them down very well, and it doesn't break the bank.
Good Hunting Chad
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Brent Parker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4354
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posted April 12, 2016 01:29 PM
I noticed the red dot sight has made a big difference for me. I pick it up way better than a bead. For now I will continue to run the DC T loads. For control jobs I can justify the cost with what I charge per coyote. It still amazes me how well it kills. I would like to try #4 buck and will pattern it out of my shotgun this summer when time permits and if I can find a load that patterns well and kills just as good I will make the switch. I have wondered if going to 3.5" 12 gauge and Winchesters #4 buck load would be any improvement. My old neighbor came over and we patterned his shotgun out to 60 yards and was impressed but he also has 54 pellets working for him. He was running a Mossberg 935 shotgun. My 3" shotgun only has 41 pellets so a big enough pay load difference to consider. I will let him run his for a season or two to see how well he likes his before making the switch. I will definitely be using it for fur season this year in the thick stuff and wonder how much my cat harvest will increase.
Posts: 172 | From: 2 miles east of Vic | Registered: Mar 2013
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 12, 2016 01:31 PM
I read an article in one of the rags this month all about the trend to custom factory loads. Yeah, right. I still don't give a shit if I ever kill another coyote with DEAD COYOTE, if I have to pay their price; which is ridiculous!
I think the best coyote shotshell is 3" Winchester DoubleXX #4 Buck. I have no confidence in any shot diameter less than #4 Buck, regardless of the velocity. No BB, T or any other alphabet, so, I think #4 is about 25 caliber? That's what's needed, not some custom load of three different sizes of shot.
I have a tripod attitude about chokes, too. They are too damned expensive to try every one on the market. I have one that seems to work and I'm not burning up $50 worth of DC to find out which choke is not to spread and not too tight, but just like Goldie Locks....just the right pattern. If there not be holes in the middle of the pattern, it's good enough. A shotgun is an imprecise tool, they say?
When I slacked off on contest hunting, I pretty much stopped carrying a rifle and shotgun on stand. Pretty much meaning not always. There are some shotgun/rifle stands, and there are a lot more rifle/shotgun stands. And, sometimes, I don't give a shit.
But, shotgunning is a frame of mind. I have never been all that much afflicted with the disease. It's just that some cover screams shotgun. The problem is when surprised by a shotgun coyote on a rifle stand. As was stated so clearly, previously, I just hate to see a coyote get away, especially one that should not have.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: Brent, I'm kind of using a similar set up, I have an EOTech 552 on my Mossberg835. It takes a little getting used to but I like it.
[ April 12, 2016, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted April 12, 2016 06:38 PM
Hunting in eastern Oregon without a shotgun seriously handicaps a guy. There's a lot of thick sagebrush that holds a lot of coyotes.
Since there aren't any laws regarding lead shot here as yet I shoot Winchester 3 1/2" #4 buckshot. The first time I tried Dead Coyote in my 3 1/2" gun I watched several hard hit coyotes get up and run off into the thick sage where I never recovered them so I quit using it. General wisdom says to automatically fire off a second shot without even thinking.
One coyote I shot with the Dead Coyote stuff came in to about 30 yards and was staring out from the edge of the sage. I put the bead on his nose and pulled the trigger. The shot lifted him off his feet and spun him around and he hit the ground. I thought he was dead so I started to stand up. The coyote ran off and I never saw it again. I still have a few boxes of the Dead Coyote stuff in the garage.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted April 12, 2016 08:56 PM
I've been a fan of the shottie for a long time.
Pumps, o/u & even a Model 24 now & then. I generally feed 'em copper plated lead BB.
> Cheap choke advice;
Those chokes that will kill coyotes out to >60 yards are going to give you a pattern about the size of your fist at the close ranges that you brought the shotgun along for in the first place.
Miss a running coyote at 10 yards and (1) Someone will be along with you to see it, and (2) They will tell everyone you know about your shooting skills.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Brent Parker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4354
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posted April 13, 2016 03:41 AM
It's interesting to read everyone's difference experiences. Just like rifle bullets it appears that what works for one guy doesn't for another.
I know DC is expensive but for some stuff I am required to use lead free. Don't see any choice there. However for everything else it isn't a requirement I will look at some #4 buckshot loads and see what I can get to pattern well.
I tried Hornadays Magnum coyote load in BB and it didn't pattern well in my shotgun.
As far as those 10 yards misses well I almost never hunt with anyone except the dog! He might bitch and whine to me about missing but I'll be pretty sure the story stays with us! When I did want a hunting partner I couldn't find one! Now there are a few guys that would like to go but I'd rather take the dog. Things can happen fast with one and its important to keep an eye on the dog and the coyote before pulling the trigger.
I am using a Trijicon MRO its a small sight but it's been working great so far. I've look thru several EOTechs and they are nice.
[ April 13, 2016, 03:48 AM: Message edited by: Brent Parker ]
Posts: 172 | From: 2 miles east of Vic | Registered: Mar 2013
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted April 13, 2016 06:51 AM
lol yes, for years and years you look for a partner to come along and hunt coyotes, but everyone thinks your a nut for hunting coyotes, so its a solo effort for the most part. Then all of a sudden people are knocking your damn door down to go coyote hunting every day. By then, your so used to going by yourself you just dont give a shit.
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted April 13, 2016 07:40 AM
I shot tournament trap for a lot of years and my first love as far as hunting goes is waterfowl and upland birds. For me, putting some device on my shotgun for the purpose of aiming it restricts the shooter to what you can see without it. Besides, shotguns aren't meant to be aimed but pointed. Aiming takes time and when your target is moving rapidly away you stand a better chance of missing.
But.......different strokes for different folks.
I used to shoot a minimum of 1000 rounds per week when I was competing. Both in practice and for the money. I only know one way to shoot a shotgun and it makes no difference if it's clay, a flying bird or a running coyote. Both eyes open, point and shoot, follow through.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted April 13, 2016 07:42 AM
BTW....I like hunting with good friends where really no one cares who takes the shot at a coyote but when you're hunting by yourself you don't have to share and that's kinda fun, too.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 13, 2016 08:46 AM
I'm no Lone Wolf when it comes to hunting coyotes. I started out almost from the start oriented towards contests and that is pretty much a team effort. I enjoy the company and the thing is, the way we get into the weeds, you really need a partner to steer while you push, etc. I've seen some real clusterfucks while out in the boonies and I really believe that two heads are better than one.
I think m attitude applies to most any hunting and fishing endeavors. I'd rather have somebody to share the experience; but not just "somebody".
I have had a couple of very unpleasant experiences. In one case, this man drove me nuts and I told him to turn this truck around and head for home, and not another word was spoken for 600 miles. Then, pulling off the ramp and gassing up a mile from both our homes, he attempted to ask WTF? It was so deep that I just told him to forget it. There is one person who might read this and think it's about him, but the guy is dead.
I really like the company on a hunt but when it don't work it really doesn't work.
Moe, here's the thing. Some of us are born shotgunners and your comments are valid. But, there is a certain number of folks that just aren't born that way and there is a solution in mounting one of those contraptions. It may never make a true shotgunner out of me but we all have to work with what we got.
It's hard to believe the way we have let fucking idiots tell us what to do, as far as restrictions on lead shot. It's been a long time in coming, but right now, I can't believe how the law could put me in jail for using #4 buck on coyotes, here in The People's Republik. And, sure as I'm standing here, what happens in Kalifornia will happen in Arizona in a few years. They don't like it, but they follow along the trends, good and bad like puppy dogs.
So, as far as I'm concerned, we have been shooting lead shot and rifle bullets for 200+ years and nobody has proved that it has actually caused any harm; it's a matter of faith, like GLOBAL WARMING. Yet, these idiots write laws based on nothing but religious conviction; why of course, lead is harmful. And we are forced to prove a negative.
Of course, it's doubtful we will ever elect another Republican in The Land of The Fruits and The Nuts, so with that, I brighten your day.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: in coyote hunting as in no other sport, it's a team effort. Nobody cares who killed it. And, as far as missing one, I'm just glad it wasn't me that let the team down. A good partner is a valuable thing. I have only had two, in the many years I have chased after predators. Right now, I don't have one. ![[Frown]](frown.gif) my son lives in Colorado. So, unless "somebody" invites me, (you know who you are)
edit: just thought about this. I once needed 4 of the 2 3/4" #4Buck Remington shotshells to kill a coyote. Not enough.Of course, at night, after killing a coyote with a shotgun, we always continued the stand, but for sure kept an eye on those dead coyotes. Sure enough, a few got away and a few stood up on shaky legs and needed another round.
[ April 13, 2016, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
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posted April 13, 2016 09:45 AM
Agreed, Ive had a couple guys that were good calling partners in the past, but for one reason or another, they move on. Most guys lose interest I guess, no money, or their wives put their foot down or whatever.
I said I didnt give a shit, but I really do enjoy calling with others, and having fun and sharing the misery of it all. Getting the vehicle stuck or otherwise breaking down is scary when you are by yourself out in the middle of nowhere, far from home. That is my #1 fear I guess. Ive hunted in some sketchy places in a few different states, come up on some crazy, weird individuals and groups...but breaking down/getting stuck is still my greatest fear for some reason? Ive been shot at, been in a couple fights, had a pistol pulled on me..all that..but I hate getting stuck most of all!!
I am just an average shotgun shooter, I just run beads, and do ok with it. Low light is a challenge sometimes but I do ok with a point and shoot method.
Mark
[ April 13, 2016, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted April 13, 2016 10:03 AM
Don't sweat the getting stuck or breaking down. It happens. But it hasn't killed me, or anyone I know with half a brain, yet. The ones it has killed, that I know of, were just idiots.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted April 13, 2016 11:22 AM
I just got in from some coyote shotgunning. Shot about 40 in the last two days. The new Hornady BB load is great in my opinion. And that's what I've been shooting. It has a different wad and to get a good pattern you need to shoot a improved cylinder choke or modified at the tightest. The other shell to look at that won't kick your teeth out is the Federal 2 3/4 inch 4 buck 34 pellet load. It works. My latest shotgunning also involved a Robinson R66 turbine. I highly recommend them for shotgun coyote hunting! You can pay by the hour like we do, about 800 bucks an hour or just buy it outright for about $850,000. Either way.
[ April 13, 2016, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
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posted April 13, 2016 11:50 AM
Lol!
[ April 13, 2016, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
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posted April 13, 2016 11:53 AM
Cal..what sights are you running on a shotgun when shooting from the sky?
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted April 13, 2016 12:12 PM
Normally I run my M2 Bennelli and speed bead. But this ship requires a right hand eject so I borrowed a buddy's Super Black Eagle with normal bead. It doesn't matter much, but as stated above you don't really want to "aim". I tend to want to, so the speed bead helps me. I keep both eyes open and point and the red dot just "appears" and seems to help me.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
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Brent Parker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4354
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posted April 13, 2016 12:19 PM
Cal,
Always thought that would be great to try from the plane but for us it's an APHIS or nothing deal here. I'll try a couple of different chokes with the BB load to see if I can't get them to shoot better. For me 40 yrds. was iffy. I had heard the 2 3/4 load was what a lot of guys flying liked. What do you figure your average shot distance is in the plane?
Leonard the dog is a partner, never complains and always happy to go. Been stuck a few times and once had to walk out but normally you can get yourself out. I do believe in two spares though.
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted April 13, 2016 12:37 PM
My guess is 40 to 60 Brett. I pattern mine at 40 and get about a two foot by 2 foot pattern with those Hornady BBs. Things can get too close in the helicopter as the pilots try to "help" too much sometimes. When you see your shells blowing holes in the ground about the size of a doorknob! They get too close and you can't swing and just as well be shooting a rifle.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 13, 2016 12:50 PM
quote:
I do believe in two spares though.
Or, if space is a problem, a whole coffee can full of plugs and glue and the tools to install them; even in a sidewall! <eek> I remember one time on the border, I think I jammed about four heavy cords into a sidewall with an inch and a half sticking out on both sides, but afraid to dress it up.
Another thing is crawling under replacing a Ujoint in muddy water with 100degree temperature. There was the time I got a split in the corner of my main gas tank, discovered it and jury-rigged it before I lost it all with many miles to get back to civilization. Nevada is like no other place, where you want to be sure that you have enough gas before getting off the pavement. I don't think I have ever walked more than ten miles? Just lucky, I guess?
What I hate is going with people that are completely unprepared! No tools, no spare parts and not a care in the world. These are very lucky people, for the most part because there is always somebody like me along to bail them out. And, they never learn. When I know, I won't go with them unless I drive. I might not have much, but I can solve a few basic things...they don't even pack a shovel, fer cripes sake!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 13, 2016 01:08 PM
Hey Cal,
All I can say is it must be a different world coming in behind them from the air? I used to use Federal BBs a 2 oz load many years ago but found 6 or 8 shells that do a better job and only two of them 3 1/2" loads. I really feel that a 41 pellet 3" is all I need for 40 yard work. I can't remember the last time I tried to kill a coyote with a shotgun @ 60 yards? If they make it that far, they've won, as far as I'm concerned.
Let me see? First you have $800 and these incredible Hornady BBs, X 40 animals, without a miss and at least a dollar a shot, right? I gotta say, I'd sure like to try it, some day. When I win the Lotto. Oh right, just remembered, it's supposed to be illegal for an ordinary taxpayer to shoot from an aircraft, right? Taxes, I just put it in the mail today. Wonder who I'm supporting this year? Oh I know I'm supporting Cruz, I mean some poor deserving undocumented immigrant....who sends half of it back to Mexico for his other family. We sure are suckers. But the Liberals tell us that those babies need milk. Yeah, right.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted April 14, 2016 03:34 AM
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