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Author
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Topic: Night Callers..
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted January 17, 2016 07:03 AM
Do you let the caller run continuously at night or do you break it up and call more intermittently? I know the coyotes here in the east might react a little differently than those in the west, but I am starting to think breaking it up into calling sequences and just listening for a while in between might be advantageous.
Besides, the sound of that caller going non stop is starting to get on my nerves.
Curious as to how you guys do it...
Thanks
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted January 17, 2016 07:12 AM
I don't do so much calling at night anymore but when I do I use a mouth blown call. Gives me complete control.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted January 17, 2016 08:50 AM
Thanks Moe.
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Leonard
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posted January 17, 2016 04:48 PM
You know, this question has been addressed many times. There is no question, when using an electronic caller, that continuous is by far the most effective and productive.
But, throwing a couple curves into the question: at night, it's still more effective....when using an electronic caller.
But, when using a hand call, it is physically impossible to call continuously, therefore you have the pauses where you catch your breath. Oh, yeah, they say it sounds more realistic, etc.
But, trust me, continuous is more effective, regardless of whether the hunter thinks adding pauses is more realistic.
No doubt, an endless sound can drive you nuts. I have heard it in my sleep!
So, while there may be some disagreement, ignore those opinions if you want to know what will call more animals. Continuous is more better.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: ok look. You cannot PROVE this, one way or another. Nobody can prove it. So, you are left with opinion. Of people that do this a lot, the vast majority will vote for continuous.
[ January 17, 2016, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted January 17, 2016 06:14 PM
Thanks Leonard. I appreciate your input.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted January 18, 2016 04:48 AM
Nick, anymore when I start a stand, first thing I do is go to the 'caller configuration' on the remote, and set it to 'single play mode'. That insures the FP only plays thru a single loop of any selected sound.
"Single play mode", and preset sounds are especially useful after dark, when fumbling with the remote distracts from seeing eyes. Keep in mind, I'm sitting on my ass with only a flashlight, might do things differently from a vehicle/elevated position...
Same as blowing a hand call, I'll keep the e-caller sounds 'short & sweet', with alot of watching & waiting in between. And sound travels soooo well in the cold & quiet darkness of winter! The notion of "they heard you the first time" rings true...let them come find you!!! If they need a little more cajoling, another 10-15 second loop of a sound is more than enough to keep the interest peaked.
These fuckers are so much more bold after dark & don't need as much convincing to come & investigate.
Not to discount Leonard in the least! Could very well be I just don't like the incessant sound on stand, for my own biased reasons. If I did find it advantageous to success, damn straight I'd let it blare the whole time!!!
[ January 18, 2016, 04:51 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
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posted January 18, 2016 07:47 AM
quote:
first thing I do is go to the 'caller configuration' on the remote, and set it to 'single play mode'. That insures the FP only plays thru a single loop of any selected sound.
I did not know about that. I will look on my old CS24 for it now.
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Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
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Leonard
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posted January 18, 2016 09:19 AM
Fred, this is one of those things that you must accept on faith, until you have enough experience under your belt. One way to look at it is; when attempting to stop a fast approach for a shot, what do you do? A lot will say: "woof em". Another method is to shut the sound. That's almost guaranteed to have Mr Coyote to throw on the binders.
Imagine this scenario for fifteen minutes and a half a mile. It might take all of it to get him in range for a chip shot. On the other hand, that same animal might have come in on a string within 3 1/2 minutes with continuous sound. Can't prove theories like this because every situation and every animal is different.
Sooo, disregard the advice of an old fossil at your peril. I've been doing this shit since some of you were in diapers.
This is generalized advice. There are times where the "realistic pauses" can be effective, true enough. But, I can't think of a situation where pauses are "measurably" better. Occasionally, a cat, perhaps.
But, these animals are incapable of logic. They don't get suspicious of a 500 pound rabbit, as far as volume is concerned. They never figure out that it doesn't make sense to hear "pup distress" in the middle of winter. They don't sit behind a bush and say: "wait a minute, there aren't any jackrabbits within 500 miles of here?" And, the list goes on.
Continuous is more better; if you want them in your lap before you start daydreaming.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted January 18, 2016 02:19 PM
Just curious Fred....I have the older TX 200 remote, and I don't see caller configuration on there. Must be on the newer style remotes?
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted January 19, 2016 05:01 AM
Yeah, might not have that option on the Tx200?
MY CS has the Tx500 remote. To access call config, I hold the "send" button down for a few seconds. That opens up option menu where call config is located...
Leonard, was just trying to relate to Nick, based on our geographic proximity. That, and my opinion that these coyotes here are a slightly different critter, living in a vastly different landscape. Same basics still apply, but I like to modify the application of them, based on those differences...
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Leonard
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posted January 19, 2016 06:45 AM
I'm not inclined to disagree with you, Fred. Mostly.
But my personal opinion is this eastern stuff is a bit overrated. To remind you, we invented this shit. And, we solved a few variances as we went along, not adjusting for all those problems going from the Owens Valley to Yuma.
Granted, there will be a few quirks, here and there, all taken in stride. Don't forget, and I trust that Quinton Wagoner, the only other member besides myself that has hunted predators in Africa, can attest: You can hunt jackals, first cousin to North American Canis Latrans without breaking a sweat.
In other words, the behavior and response is so similar that you might as well just treat jackals as if they were western coyotes or eastern coyotes. The only noticeable difference, for my purposes was the vocalizations. Coyotes have it all over jackals when it comes to howls and the different yips they make. Jackals sound more like rats or one of those Jap barkless dogs.
Anyway, we gave you guys the essentials, so it should be easy to adapt to local conditions....but as far as "pauses" being essential, I'm not convinced. One thing for sure, it might not chase them out of the county, so can't hurt .
Sorry to sound negative, dude, we're just talkin'.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
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posted January 19, 2016 07:18 AM
I got a question. Was hunting a contest last weekend and the wind slicked off after dark and it got cold.
We stayed in up in the rack while moving from stand to stand as these are a timed event. Everything would get frosted over.
Here is the question, is there anything you can safely put on scope lenses to keep frost from forming on them?
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 19, 2016 07:36 AM
No, and it doesn't help to keep the rifle inside, either. Thankfully, not a common occurrence. But I think the scope caps, closed, help somewhat.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 19, 2016 11:51 AM
Eastern coyotes, western coyotes.
I don't have much of a clue what the differences are. Or how hunting them in the east needs to be different than the west.
A small observation I've made though, or maybe it's more of a question, since I'm not sure how accurate it really is.
Anyway... One thing I always, always hear is that the coyotes back east are just way, way harder to call than the coyotes out west.
I believe it. No reason not to. I can't remember ever hearing about anyone back east ever putting up any even halfway decent numbers. I mean, never. The coyotes back there must be a lot harder to call or somebody would be putting up some kind of numbers. But I don't think I've ever once seen it.
But! I have also never heard of anyone back east having access to enough ground to be worth mentioning, either.
I mean, if all I had to hunt was the same two or three sections, or maybe a dozen 40 to 240 acre spots spread out over a couple of counties out west here, my numbers would go WAY, WAY, WAY DOWN.
The big majority of eastern guys I've ever read posting on the subject, none of them have enough ground available to even get me off the couch. I mean, seriously, if that's all I had, I'd find another hobby.
So, my question for anyone interested in postulating... I'm not arguing that the eastern coyote isn't harder to hunt. But, how much of the lack of success would you attribute to lack of land access, vs. the difference in the animals themselves?
My suspicion is that it's a bigger factor in the much lower success rate of our eastern brothers than is generally given any credence.
In other words, I think if I only had access to as much land as Fred does, I'd only have a fraction of the success I do. Likewise, I think if hat literally unlimited land access back east, he'd have a helluva lot more success than he does. And there might not be so much inclination to blame it on the animals being that much different? Albeit, I concede they likely are.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 19, 2016 12:29 PM
I don't disagree, Dave. But, in the case of Fred, I think he might admit that hunting in Oklahoma has helped his New York hunting. In other words, somebody BACK THERE WITHOUT A POINT OF REFERENCE, (OOPS) could think hunting eastern coyotes is a lot more difficult than somebody who has sat a few stands where the animals come in eagerly, like Kelly's Oklahoma. Has to help? Even if he still might think NY coyotes are so tough that he has to alter tried and true methods.
I'm just picking on ya, fred. No offense.
Truthfully, have to give him credit. A lot of those guys stay where they are and never figure it out because the conventional wisdom tells him how tough they are. Therefore, he's not depressed by failure.
But, I'm like Dave, again. If that's all I had was slim pickings back in the woods, I don't think I would bother? That, and practically unlimited public land....which they do not have in abundance in Oklahoma, BTW.
So, good hunting, when you find it, El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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knockemdown
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posted January 19, 2016 01:06 PM
The notion that the animals are 'different' is only a fractional part of the #s & success equation.
The fact that land parcels are not nearly as expansive here is a big factor. There just aren't areas where coyotes don't see & interact with people, or where there isn't a road, building, or some other human obstacle to hinder an approach. Calling one from much more than 1/2 mile away just ain't gonna happen, given what little it takes to hang one up...
Considering that, back here I have to almost crawl into bed with a coyote, call softy & less often, and hope there's one in that specifically targeted small block of land to respond. And even then, it seems they want to take their sweet azz time to lollygag over to see WTF peaked their curiosity?
Beyond that, our coyotes here live in a land of plenty. They aren't anywhere near thick enough to stress the carrying capacity of the land.
And the lack of competition for food also has an effect on territorial behavior. Both of which I believe serve to buffer how reactionary coyotes are to calling. The sense of urgency just doesn't seem to be there...
Of course, these are just some of my musings based on fucking around here the last 15yrs or so & being blessed enough to have some experience calling 'out west' in several states to relate back to.
One MAJOR thing is that I'm always eager & grateful to point out is that hunting with a few select killers 'out west' over the years has assuredly up-ed my success rate abck here! The confidence of knowing 'what works' surely transcends geography.
I know that there are at least three guys here that have hunted with the Dillon boys from Foxpro. Curious to know if the topic of eastern coyote calling had come up along the way? If so, what their thoughts were on the matter?
BTW, you guys are more than welcome to come up and see for yourselves! (SERIOUSLY) At the very least, we'll burn cigars & firewood, eat like kings & drink some good whisky when we're not humping thru the snow to make some stands. At the most, you'll get a feeling for yourself about what & how different the pursuit of our passion could be...
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knockemdown
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posted January 19, 2016 01:08 PM
PS, was typing while you were, Leonard!
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted January 19, 2016 02:14 PM
Interesting viewpoints.
I don't have the calling experience or expertise as you all do here, but I would have to somewhat agree that the land (or lack thereof) has an affect on the calling here in the east.
Leonard once asked my what my rationale was for calling the same spot two nights in a row. The obvious answer is there aren't a lot of places to (legally) hunt, and a quick after dinner hunt tends to keep me closer to home. That...and the fact that the coyotes here seem to be more spread out than out west. In other words, in the area one night and in a different area the next night. That seems to be the case with response and or vocalizations that I have seen or heard.
Fred might have a different experience, because he hunts upstate NY where land is more plentiful, while I hunt powerline cuts, state game lands, and some private property where houses are near by.
I have been calling here in the northeast (NJ and PA) since 2000. I can safely say I have called in more fox, bobcat and bear than I have called in coyotes.
This is in contrast to my one hunting trip out to Texas, where I had two called and one killed in the first half hour of the hunt.
Pretty convincing on the differences in east to west (mainly northeast), at least to my point of view.
[IMG]http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh289/4949shooter/Hunting%20Pics/TexasPics004.j pg[/IMG]
Edit: Not sure why the above came up as a link instead of a photo?
[ January 20, 2016, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
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Leonard
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posted January 19, 2016 08:53 PM
Good for you, 49! Either you got the fever or you don't. Obviouly, you and Fred do.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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knockemdown
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posted January 20, 2016 04:52 AM
Nice, Nick!
(your photo link doesn't work because there is a space between the "j" and the "pg" at the end of the address)
Couple pics to share from over New Year's. Had my homenugget come out from Oklahoma on a whim, and we hammered straight up to the farm for some calling, eastern style. Pic of one of the farms I hunt...
Beautiful semi-open country! I kill a coyote or two off that knoll in the background every winter, a proven 'honey hole'. Caveat is, there's gotta be a coyote close enough to wanna commit & approach!
I promise you, a coyote WILL NOT cross that open terrain to come to a call. Best I can do is set up 100-300yds from an patch of cover, and whack them when they hang up at the edge. Like this:
On Saturday evening, hit a different honey hole farm before dark, and got one to step out 30yds in front of Ronnie!
Can't tell ya how EXCELLENT that was! And it was sure nice to have a 2nd gun watching where I couldn't possibly cover. I never saw that coyote, just heard the shot from ~150yds downwind of me (and ~250yds away from the caller). If I were alone, no tellin' if I'da had a chance to shoot. And I know that is happening when I call alone, no way to stop it...
Reckon we made another 5-6 'proven winner' stands where we should have called a coyote, but didn't. I chalk that up to there just not being one close enough to want to come. But I consider that as a pretty dang good success rate for daytime calling 'back east' here in Central NY.
As Nick pointed out, sometimes they're in one patch of cover, other times they're in the timber 3/4 mile away. Or, down the ridge a couple miles...
I know there are some spots coyotes frequent, but there is simply no means of stealthy approach to set up on them. Its a fine line to toe, getting close enough to be convincing, without alerting them of your presence. That has much to do with the difficulty of the game!
In that regard, it friggin' blew my mind to see how western coyotes will openly trot across wheat stubble, a mesquite bottom, sagebrush flat, or other "open" area to come to a call. That shit RARELY happens here, if ever. Don't ask me why, but I liken these eastern coyotes I fuck with to being like vampires...they have an aversion to Sun exposure ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
That's not to say they can't be called in the daytime, as I've figured that part out pretty well. Just sayin' (getting back to the calling part), blaring a call loud & constantly will not bring a coyote in from a mile away here. My recipe for success is a stealthy approach to a relatively small targeted area...
At night however, all bets are off and a coyote will trot down the dang highway to get my wind!!! That's another reason I keep calling soft & infrequent after dark. I'd rather target a certain open area to run the light, and not call one from too far away. The further away they're coming from, the better the chance they'll hit some cover and bust me before I ever get to see their eyes in the light. Same targeted approach after dark, just using the open areas more to my advantage, as these vampires lose their inhibition for breaking cover in the darkness...
You gents 'out west' can sho' nuff crank a call up and let it play constantly at high volume, and have coyotes come from almost any direction. And/or tear thru a kabillion acres of public land, scorching earth & 'machine gunning' different sounds on the caller until you trip a trigger from a coyote that could be a mile away. Your are blessed!
That's why I friggin' love gettin' out there to visit friends and experience it alongside them. In that regard, I am also blessed!!! Lordy knows I soak it up when a coyote comes to a call "like they posta" ![[Wink]](wink.gif) Nuthin' better & never gets old!!!
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Leonard
HMFIC
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posted January 20, 2016 06:49 AM
Excellent post, Fred. That coyote looks very average, to me, western standards? Less than 30 pounds?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted January 20, 2016 04:45 PM
Looks good Fred!
I have the same experience....never, ever have had them respond to a call over open ground during the day.
I might have to try that trick of setting up in cover waiting for them to come to the edge of a field.
That just might work down here in Jersey too!
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted January 21, 2016 05:03 AM
You can do it, Nick! Just keep crackin' & don't wear out the same spot, over & over...
Leonard, that was a young female, ~33lbs. Ronnie is a big ol' boy, too, if that helps with proportions?
Some of the few times I've had a coyote circle the wind out into an opening was when my Pokey was a pup. Took him out first day of our season (opens 10/1), and had this nice female take an interest in the pup bouncing around below me...
Next morning, called that same area from an entirely different approach & called the big male into a standing corn field & whacked him @ 11yds. Better representative of size...
Nowadays, my dog runs them out of the dang county, so he stays home & hates me for it. Tough noogies!
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
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posted January 21, 2016 05:21 AM
My guess on why the coyotes in my AO readily cross open ground is simply because they live in it. They mouse, chase rabbits, take naps etc. every day in open ground. It's home.
Some of my favorite places to hunt, I think it's fair to say most of those coyotes have never seen a tree.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 21, 2016 06:26 AM
Never seen a tree? Had not thought of it that way, but yes, you could go miles and not see a tree except maybe down a dry wash? Speaking of Nevada, anyway.
They live and hunt that open stunted sage. All night, then retreat to the foothills and canyons if close by? I have seen coyotes take cover in culverts under gravel roads and pavement, any place offering a bit of shade. Or a few rays of sunshine, mid winter.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: that's a nice coyote, Fred!
[ January 21, 2016, 06:27 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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