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Author
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Topic: Kansas/ Oklahoma on fire
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted March 26, 2016 06:34 PM
The nice people of Oklahoma sent Kansas a dandy gift Tuesday afternoon - the largest wild fire in Kansas history and now - officially - one of the largest in US history, having scorched over 620 square miles in the Gypsum Hills of Barber and Comanche Counties of southcentral Kansas. This is some top shelf calling country here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Td_NDHtlzq4
By Thursday night, the sun had been blotted out by the smoke plume over Abilene, 175 miles from the fire. On Friday, St Louis was reporting ash falling on the city. Firefighters from all over the state have sent personnel and trucks to Medicine Lodge to assist in the effort. The USFS has sent one air tanker and the Kansas Air National Guard was assisting with Blackhawk helicopters starting today. Last night, a small system of light rain and snow flurries originated over the area of the fire, moving NE. By the time I'd left the house for work this morning, the cool air with the storm had essentially pushed the smoke ahead of it to Abilene. You could see a noticeable haze in the air and the smell of grass smoke was very evident.
The above video is drone footage taken by the Kiowa County (Greensburg, of tornado fame) Emergency Management Department. In the first section, you can see the small attack squads speeding down the fire line. Later, you'll see another valuable tool in this country - big assed tractors disking ground and breaking sod to establish a fire line ahead of the head fires.
At last report, they had 15% containment. Five days into the fire. Unlike the wildfires you hear about out west, this fire was moving at 50-65 miles an hour when it first started. At one point, the head fire - the leading edge of the fire - was nearly fifty miles long.
Only four houses have burned so far - testimony to the hard work and heroism of hundreds of firefighters staying ahead of the fire and protecting those homes until the danger passed. An untold number of cattle and new calves have died, and the Kansas Livestock Commission estimated ~10,000 miles of fence will need to be replaced or restrung. Ranchers from KS, OK and TX are all coming together to rescue and house cattle left roaming by ranchers who only had the time to drive them onto green winter wheat as a means of trying to save them. Even with that, many cows were separated from nursing calves. Herds are mixed and scattered. Hay resources have been destroyed causing ranchers to depend upon donated hay from many other states being trucked in at all hours.
A truly inspirational story from the ashes... a Christian radio station transmitter building sat upon a tall prominent hilltop. The building is about the size of a garden shed, 2x4 wood stud construction with your standard asphalt shingle roof. The station had mowed an area around the building only about twenty feet beyond the footprint of the shed. The other night, the fire raced up that hill in gale force 50 mph winds on all four sides, burning hot enough to burn the telephone pole upon which the electrical meter for the site was mounted. The heat was so intense that it melted the glass cover on the meter, yet the building is still there, completely unscathed. No damage whatsoever. One of those things that make you say, "Whoa!"
When interviewed, the station manager was asked what he thought saved the building and the transmitter. His reply? "Lots of prayers,.... and a good mower."
[ March 26, 2016, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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trapper2
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3651
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posted March 27, 2016 05:49 AM
talked to some guys that ranch up there and they said it was a sickening sight to drive through and see the dead cattle
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nothing is politically correct if its morally wrong
Posts: 248 | From: okla | Registered: Sep 2010
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted March 27, 2016 07:01 AM
Saw a pic the other day online of about a dozen bloated charred carcasses down in a low area - sort of a small canyon - where they'd taken refuge and been trapped.
On a positive note, some are calling it an Easter miracle. 3.5-inches of snow fell on that area last night, an impressive amount of snow for this late in the season, and badly needed. If only the precipitation will continue, that area would be absolutely beautiful in less than a month as the new grass comes in
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted March 27, 2016 07:57 AM
Here's a little secret that the Smokey Bear crowd seems to have a problem with;
"Sooner or later...........it's gonna burn".
Regular fires that burn grass and a bit of brush is a good and natural thing. Puts ash into the soil. Better green stuff for the critters to eat.
Or.............
Let fuel build up for a couple of decades and eventually have a fire so hot that it sterilizes the soil, kills the roots, erosion, flash floods, etc. Bad Karma.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7623 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted March 27, 2016 09:56 AM
A friend, and owner of several thousand acres of ground I hunt had the fire get a large portion of his grass. Fortunately, this was their summer ground and most everything was still on wheat....plus their numbers were lower than usual.
Koko, this was not the result greenies opposing productive practices of controlled burns. Its very common to burn here at least semi annually. We know the merits of controlled burns, and the land owner I mentioned was planning on a burn in that area. What you have is basically the 'perfect storm'. That area in particular suffered for many years with severe drought, leaving basically nothing to burn. Of course with any drought situation, cedars and other noxious weeds continue to grow even thrive (producing fuel). Now, follow that with the last two years of banner moisture and you add in our seasonal grasses with the other fuel. Some seasonal high winds(40plus mph) and a spark and voila! It was predicted last year, and has been a problem all over, just not as big as this one.
Maintain
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 27, 2016 10:07 AM
Geordie's right, of course. No mater, floods or fire, some of these enviro NAZI's have issues. They are still griping about Yellowstone. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
But, that deal a couple years ago where AZ state people started a fire so they would have work, that takes the cake!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31546 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted March 27, 2016 10:46 AM
I echo Geordie's statement here. This is Kansas and Oklahoma. Those stupid bastards have no say here. Last weekend, the wife and I were driving to Wichita. I was pointing out to her the pastures that were being properly managed as evidenced by the uniformity of grass and the absence of eastern red cedar trees and invasive woody forbs. For the most part, when you see a pasture around here like that, it's by design when the landowner wants to have the diversity of habitat for wildlife to enhance hunting, etc.. Rangeland management here is critical and prescribed burns are a way of life. The only bitching greenies do is when they complain about the air quality when prescribed burning is going on.
To their credit, we have seen an abundance of controlled burning hereabouts this year, starting in mid-February. That caught my eye because, historically, that's a bit early. The rule of thumb when I took range management classes was to burn pastures when you had one inch of new growth visible in desirable species - usually late March.
But, the SCS finally heeded the calls of wildlife managers who were finally able to demonstrate to them that wildlife - specifically upland game - do not utilize dense growth Conservation Reserve Program grass much more than the outer ten to twenty feet in from the edge. Too dense at ground level for young hatchlings to be able to move about to forage or escape predators. Too hard for adult birds to hide from avian predators as well. So, a lot of these contracts are burning now ensure that new growth is up and stable when nesting begins, that the new growth will trigger an abundance of insects for young chicks to consume, and they will be seeding at a much less dense rate so that there is a clump of grass here and there, whose roots overlap to stabilize the soil, and whose canopy will provide sufficient overhead cover for birds and small mammals trying to hide from hawks, yet dense enough to remain stable and self sufficient over the long term rather than the grass at ground level being all but impenetrable. A lot of the past decade's issues in keeping ponds and drainages with sufficient water has been to the dramatic decrease in run off due to the tall grasses capturing and holding rain without it ever getting to the ground. This new approach is a win-win change in the program, not to mention the reduction in standing fuel load when fires do happen.
As much as I hate to see those fires happen, and to see those ranchers lose as much as they have, the benefits to the rangeland down there are immeasurable. As long as they get some rain. It'll be up to us to help those folks recover and get back on their feet.
[ March 27, 2016, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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trapper2
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3651
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posted March 27, 2016 11:17 AM
we have been burning every chance we get but the wind has held us back a lot this year, cant seem to get the right wind that's not 40 mph
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nothing is politically correct if its morally wrong
Posts: 248 | From: okla | Registered: Sep 2010
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted March 27, 2016 12:20 PM
Ok, in light of the above information, I stand corrected. You guys in Kan / Okla apparently have it figured out.
Other places ...........less so.
I can still remember when I lived in So. Cal.
The greenies managed to keep Topanga Cyn. from burning for over 20 years.
It was really ugly when it finally happened and the recovery took a long time with a lot of mudslides.
The area that I now hunt deer & bear is part of the Wallow Fire burn in Arizona. A massive area that should have been logged, thinned, burnt long before the huge fire. Billions of board feet of lumber lost. It's recovering, but slowly.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7623 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted March 29, 2016 06:38 PM
Our county Emergency Preparedness Director is a buddy of mine. He got called down to assist with Command Ops for a second fire that started at about the same time as the Anderson Creek fire, but only burned about 18 square miles. He shared this picture of a water tender that got itself buried to the frame in dry sand. This is a six-wheel drive five ton military rig, like the old deuce and a halfs that are used everywhere around here. They may not be the prettiest, as far as fire trucks go, but they generally go anywhere you point them in rough country. This one didn't. All sorts of pockets of blow sand in that country. Guy has to know how to let out a clutch with great caution. Spin the wheels even a little bit and you're in up to your ass. My buddy said he saw three different "fancy" fire trucks get stuck and burn up, each one being worth $100,000 a piece. Ouch!
I've driven one of the deuce and a halfs a lot in sand hills and you have to all but try to bury one like this. LOL
[ March 29, 2016, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 30, 2016 07:57 AM
That's interesting, Geordie/Lance
You know, I drove a deuce and a half quite a bit, when in the military. There were two types, I believe Reo made most of them? But one didn't have duel wheels and generally had some type of communication hut on it. But our's had canvas over the bed and a ring mount for a fifty directly over the cab, had to stand on the seat to run it.
Where was I? Oh, yeah. NEVER GOT ONE STUCK ! That includes all over Europe, the sand dunes of Fort Bliss and White Sands and the swamps of Okefanoke (sp) in the panhandle. And some was totally unauthorized joyriding. The three quarter tons were pretty good but they had a winch for a reason. The absolute worst; 1/4 ton Jeeps. Best to leave them on the pavement. lol
But, I drove the platoon leader, my lifelong buddy, jim Peterson and we had a few good times in that little 1/4 ton. He died a few years ago in Omaha, a wealthy man. I was there at the services. We've had a few reunions over the years, and some of the guys bitched, privately, that officers didn't belong. What total bullshit! This might be hard to believe but we had a Christmas party at the NCO Club and outside, Jim and I got into a knock down drag out fight. Lots of people saw it, and he drove me back to the barracks after. I thought for sure I would wind up in Leavenworth? You just can't hit an officer...but, he hit me first! There were whispers all over and both of us were pretty marked up, but somehow, it never got to the right people. Funny how those things create bonds? Never kept contact with anybody really, except one guy I exchange emails with, lives somewhere in Chicago. But, Jim Peterson was one of my few best friends. RIP, Jim.
Down Memory Lane with Lenbo
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: looking at the above pic: I am just reminded of the last time I saw something similar. It was Dave Afflack's silver Dodge, so stuck it took a farm tractor to get us out just before dark. lol
[ March 30, 2016, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31546 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted March 30, 2016 10:48 AM
A friend of mine has a nephew that has an 8,000 acre ranch that straddles Commanche/Barber Counties which was in the crosshairs of the Anderson Creek fire.
The ranch was a wildlife mecca, as well as a great cattle ranch. About 90% of the ranch grass burned, and they were able to save the headquarters and outbuildings. Not sure how the 600 momma cows faired.
My buddy went down Monday to survey the damage...he said it is a disaster. The fire burned so hot it scoured the ground. The grass burnt so fast and so completely it just left bare dirt over thousands of acres. The picture I saw didn't even show charred grass, just brown dirt.
He did say that the new green shoots of grass were already starting to come up with the moisture they got in the snow.
He said he saw one covey of quail, but he is afraid all of the small 4 legged critters, raccoons, possums, etc. might have been wiped out.
Will just have to see if the quail, turkey and deer return. The ranch had a great number of coyotes and bobcats...will be interesting to see how they fared.
[ March 30, 2016, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: booger ]
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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earthwalker
Cultural Editor & middleweight arm wrestling champion/Intermountain Region
Member # 4177
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posted March 31, 2016 04:21 PM
I'm so tired of fires I could scream
If the coyotes survive it'll be a miracle.
Every big fire I've been around they seem to disappear never to return to their glory days.
But there in OK/KS it might totally be different than west of the divide.
I know TX when they burnt so bad a few years back they didn't see much of anything for a long time. Still not sure if things have returned to normal for them.
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another long hot smoky summer coming
Posts: 1109 | From: Intermountain region | Registered: Jul 2012
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 31, 2016 04:49 PM
quote:
I know TX when they burnt so bad a few years back they didn't see much of anything for a long time. Still not sure if things have returned to normal for them.
Umm, along with drought.... no.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31546 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted April 02, 2016 12:06 PM
It will truly be interesting to see how the wildlife fares. Southeast of Manhattan, Kansas, in the Flint Hills bordering I-70 is the Konza Prairie owned by the Nature Conservancy - the largest contiguous tallgrass prairie remaining in the world. KSU does all sorts of research there, ranging from the impacts and effects of native grazers like elk, bison and antelope, to studying the effects of fire on prairie ecosystems and biomes. The fauna on Konza are very resilient. Rodents tend to burrow under and let the fire just sweep over them. The grasses and the plant communities have evolved to need fire and the re-emergence of grasses is almost immediate following the cooling of the ground. In fact, the soils only tend to heat to a depth of an inch, maybe two, in a range fire of this type. As fast moving as this fire was, any coyotes that sought refuge in dens, pond tubes, etc., likely survived well. The exposed ground will offer up a veritable buffet of easy food for them, as well as the scavenging of carcasses killed by the fire. Overall, it'll be interesting to see the impact on larger mammals, etc.. Fire is one of those things we tend to consider from the perspective of the expanse of a human lifetime whereas nature deals with these things over decades and centuries. That doesn't make it any easier for those who lost homes, outbuildings, fences, and livestock. But Kansas has a way of coming together and bouncing back. Always have - always will. Seen it after tornadoes, and after fires, as well. Heard something on TV last night that is appropriate here - "None of us will ever be alone, as long as another of us is still standing."
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted April 06, 2016 06:38 PM
More damned wind. More damned fires. Yesterday, they were evacuating towns and neighborhoods all around me, from down south to NE of me in the Flint Hills. Never seen anything like it in my 51 years, 25 of which were spent as a firefighter!
The following link takes you to the news story of an incident that happened in OK yesterday. This guy is damned lucky. The video shows you how fast and hot a simple grass fire can be. Had an incident like this one time. Reminds me of the time I got trapped in the creek bottom by an advancing fire line, but this guy had a bit more fire to deal with. This'd make ya pucker up a bit.
http://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/news-9-photog-saves-man-from-road-grader-fire/38881646
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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