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» The New Huntmastersbbs!   » Member forum   » Ammo Shortage Government Created....and it's legal to scratch build your own AR-15

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Author Topic: Ammo Shortage Government Created....and it's legal to scratch build your own AR-15
Frank
CAN START A FIRE WITH A BUCK KNIFE AND A ROCK
Member # 6

Icon 1 posted June 16, 2013 06:36 PM      Profile for Frank   Author's Homepage   Email Frank         Edit/Delete Post 


[ June 28, 2013, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]

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"Truth is no prostitute, that throws herself away upon those who do not desire her; she is rather so coy a beauty that he who sacrifices everything to her cannot even then be sure of her favor".

Posts: 644 | From: North Dakota | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794

Icon 1 posted June 16, 2013 07:08 PM      Profile for TA17Rem   Email TA17Rem         Edit/Delete Post 
You need a federal firearms manufacturer license.

I also know a guy from another board made his own AR from scratch. Is it legal? Nope.. Hate to be in his shoes when he gets it checked over by a CO and it doesn't have a serial number.

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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!

Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316

Icon 1 posted June 16, 2013 07:32 PM      Profile for DanS           Edit/Delete Post 
Tim, are you sure?

I thought that if you plan on selling a firearm that you made, you would need the manufacturing FFL. If made for your own personal use and never for sale then it was OK just like buying the 80% lowers for an AR15.

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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis

Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!

Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Frank
CAN START A FIRE WITH A BUCK KNIFE AND A ROCK
Member # 6

Icon 1 posted June 16, 2013 07:44 PM      Profile for Frank   Author's Homepage   Email Frank         Edit/Delete Post 


[ June 28, 2013, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]

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"Truth is no prostitute, that throws herself away upon those who do not desire her; she is rather so coy a beauty that he who sacrifices everything to her cannot even then be sure of her favor".

Posts: 644 | From: North Dakota | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794

Icon 1 posted June 16, 2013 07:49 PM      Profile for TA17Rem   Email TA17Rem         Edit/Delete Post 
Just going by what I read a few month's back when I heard about the guy making his own AR.

As far as I know weapons need a manufacturing serial number. If you was to take a rifle for example and grind of the serial number even if you owned it from the get go and took it to a smith to be worked on you and him would both be in trouble.. Some of the real old guns would be grandfather in..
I also know if you take a Rem. XP-100 and have it made into a rifle you have to have it re-registered with the fed.s and I'm not sure if you can change it back later on.. Lots of laws out there on the books that most of us don't know about..

I'm not 100% and I don't think anyone else is when it comes to gun laws and I'm willing to bet most CO or cops aren't up to date on them either and if any of them stopped a guy with a firearm with no serial numbers I don't think the gun owners word is going to be good enough. If it should happen the gun would most likely be taken and then the owner would have to go to court to prove its legal or not...
Best route is to go buy a half dozen cheap savages and go bury them... LOL

quote:
for legal questions like this, it's best to go to the source.

from ATF's FAQ (question A6): http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a6

(A6) Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle? [Back]

With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency.

[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]

somewhere else the question of transferring a gun you make yourself sometime in the future comes up (can't find the link right now) and you can legally transfer or sell a gun you make yourself...you just can't build a gun for the sole purpose of selling it (without a license). but once it's built, it is effectively your property, and if you get tired of it, you can legally transfer it (just like any firearm you own). The ATF strongly suggests putting a serial number on it if you transfer it, though. (and some states always require a serial number)

quote:
The legal concern is if you sell many homemade firearms, even if you did not intend to sell them when you built them, the ATF can still make a case against you that you were illegaly building firearms to sell for profit without a license.

So for practical reasons it is simply best not to sell homemade firearms without a license, and retain them for personal use. If rarely you choose to sell one, keep it a rare occurance.

Further, much of the code does not cover things, because a lot of what people are prosecuted for are in fact ATF interpretations and recomendations, which they enforce, but are not laws. They get a lot of discretion in enforcement of the actual statutes, sometimes creating several of thier own interpretations from a single statute, and then enforcing them as all unique statutes.
Sometimes that is within thier scope of powers, and sometimes it is not, but it is still what they require to avoid confrontation with them.
They recomend you put a serial number/ unique markings etc. That is clearly to allow firearm traces.
They recomend you sell no more than x number of homemade firearms within a given time frame.

If you do not sell homemade firearms at all you should have no problems building your own for your personal use. Follow state and federal laws.
Do not build an NFA firearm without doing the proper paperwork beforehand.
Pistols require rifling to be legal. Long arms must be 26" overall, 18" barrel for shotguns and 16" for rifles. Fires from closed bolt. Is not select fire.
State laws can be more restrictive.



[ June 16, 2013, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!

Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
BangPop
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3876

Icon 1 posted June 17, 2013 02:03 PM      Profile for BangPop           Edit/Delete Post 
I am pretty sure you are incorrect with your XP-100 example. It is not illegal to turn a XP action into a rifle, but it would be illegal to take a 700 action and put a pistol length barrel on it. There have been thousands of XPs rebarreled into rifles over the years. I have done quite a few myself.
Posts: 28 | From: Gallatin Gateway, Montana | Registered: Jul 2011  |  IP: Logged
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794

Icon 1 posted June 17, 2013 06:41 PM      Profile for TA17Rem   Email TA17Rem         Edit/Delete Post 
Me to. [Smile]

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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!

Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
BangPop
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3876

Icon 1 posted June 17, 2013 07:26 PM      Profile for BangPop           Edit/Delete Post 
Did you re-register that one with the Feds as you suggested in your post above?
Posts: 28 | From: Gallatin Gateway, Montana | Registered: Jul 2011  |  IP: Logged
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633

Icon 1 posted June 17, 2013 07:28 PM      Profile for Kokopelli   Author's Homepage           Edit/Delete Post 
Not sure of all of the legals involved but I own a Contender. Neat gun. Pistol barrel & pistol grip = fine. Rifle barrel & shoulder stock = fine. Pistol barrel & shoulder stock = big no-no according to what's printed on the stock butt plate.

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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.

Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794

Icon 1 posted June 18, 2013 02:28 AM      Profile for TA17Rem   Email TA17Rem         Edit/Delete Post 
I didn't but my gunsmith did when it was built.
Your right Koko.

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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!

Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
BangPop
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3876

Icon 1 posted June 18, 2013 04:03 AM      Profile for BangPop           Edit/Delete Post 
Your gunsmith wasted his time. There is no requirement to re-register an XP when rebarreling and restocking into a rifle.
Posts: 28 | From: Gallatin Gateway, Montana | Registered: Jul 2011  |  IP: Logged


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