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Author
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Topic: Good Advice?
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted June 06, 2011 10:25 PM
I thought this was an interesting little article. Maybe some of you will as well. Some of the comments are good too.
After The Shot
I’m not a lawyer so take it for what it’s worth.
So what do you do if you are caught up in a deadly force scenario? Let me state again. I am not a lawyer. But, I have been on the witness stand for the Los Angeles Prosecuting Attorney Office.
The first thing that I want to tell you is this. Hold up your hand and say right now, out loud. I will not lie. Now repeat it. I will not lie. If you do not want to go to prison for something you needed to do, do not exaggerate, do not stretch the truth and do not lie, even once. Leave that to your attorney (no offense).
The aftermath of a violent act, a deadly act, is like a play. There are villains, there are bad guys, there are heroes and there are extras on the set. In fact, you may even really be on film. You never know. Play your part well and you’ll get the Oscar, play it bad and you’ll get free room and board for life.
So let’s start a sequence and go through it step by step. Because it’s easier to relate to, we’re going to use a violent armed robbery as the subject of this discussion.
You are alone on the street walking home from Monday night football with your buddies. You have a legal license to carry a gun. By the way, you better be able to prove you have had proper training and your license better be current and 100% legal at all times.
As you are walking along the sidewalk to your car, (in condition white) down the street, about a block away you look up and see some road crew guys working under construction lights when suddenly, out of nowhere, something hits you on the side of the head. There is an explosion of white light and you stagger, your knees buckle momentarily as you turn and you can barely hear, “Give me your f*cking money!”
All you see in front of you is a silhouette and the glint of a gun. “I said, give me your f*cking money! And your wallet! Hurry up motherf*cker or I’ll blow your f*ckin head off!” You reach for your wallet and you fumble it as you hand it over and it falls to the ground. “Stupid Mother F*cker!” And he fires off a round at you. It strikes the car beside you as you recoil then reach for your weapon. Boom! Boom! And the silhouette falls to the ground silent; his gun clatters across the ground into the bushes.
So here we go; If you are safe, do not flee the scene. If you have a cell phone, call 911 to report the incident. Call it in immediately. Don’t wait. All you need to do is say there’s been a shooting and give the location if you can. The construction crew down the street has already called it in. But you better too. You don’t want to be on record calling it in 45 minutes later. Stay put. Do not tamper with the scene or the evidence. Do not move the weapon closer to the body. Forget everything you’ve ever heard from all the bullsh*t advisors you’ve ever heard, i.e. putting the gun in his hand, hitting yourself to show he attacked you, yelling “don’t kill me”, dragging someone back into your house, and believe me when I tell you this, rearranging any evidence at all, is not the thing to do.
You hear the police sirens getting closer. Put your gun down on the ground. Put yourself in plain view. Don’t be moving around when the units roll up. And for God’s sake have your hands in plain view. Do not run toward the officers as they arrive. Let them come to you. Follow their commands; remember they know nothing about what just happened except that there was a shooting. For all they know you may be the bad guy and you don’t want to get shot too.
Now comes a very important part. You may be handcuffed. You may be arrested. If you are arrested be assured that you will be bonded out after a few hours, so don’t panic. It is just the way it is until things get sorted out. This is one of the most important things to keep in mind. From the moment that the Police arrive on the scene consider that anything and everything you say will have a direct effect on the outcome of the situation you are now faced with. You are being interviewed (questioned) from the moment they arrive.
If you are arrested, you will hear the following;
Miranda Rights
You have the right to remain silent.
Anything you say can be used against you in a court of law.
You have the right to an attorney now and during further questioning.
If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed to you free of charge.
You must request an attorney before you answer any question-at all. Everyone always wants to get the story out of what just happened. It was a huge, traumatic event and you want to tell someone about it. It’s just human nature. Don’t do it!
You must request an attorney and have him present before you answer any questions. “Officer, I need an attorney before I answer any questions.”
Remember the Miranda Rights. You are being placed under arrest and anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford one, one will be appointed for you.
You are not presumed guilty by requesting an attorney. And look carefully at Miranda. It says, “…will be used against you, (not for you) in a court of law.”
A very famous attorney once told me. “For God’s sake keep your mouth shut. You can think about it like this. Every word that comes out of your mouth is a $1000 bill floating away. Because that is what it is going to cost you for me to undo every one of those words.”
From this point forward it is not going to be an easy journey. There will be a criminal investigation. The DA may file a case against you or he may not. There may also be a follow on civil case by the bad guy’s family, and this whole mess may take years to get through. But, in the worst of times to follow, know that if you were justified and you kept your wits about you, that you will prevail and that justice will be served. What happens after the incident will be a roller coaster ride of elation and despair but you’ve still get to maintain the spirit of a warrior to see you through. It will not let you down.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 06, 2011 10:46 PM
That is very depressing shit. Almost make one wish he missed and got shot instead, but survive and maybe they will catch the guy, where you can view a lineup from your hospital bed? Much safer than blowing his brains out and getting arrested for your trouble.
So.....how would the scenario be very different in a home invasion or a residential burglary?
gh/lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Ken
will be missed
Member # 3065
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posted June 07, 2011 07:12 AM
Barney's horse will remain in the barn on this one for now. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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I am 5'10",an asshole 220% for sure. Former dirty deed doer for PM. Corrupt too! My name is Festus.
Posts: 281 | From: High Desert | Registered: Aug 2008
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 07, 2011 07:56 AM
Come on! I'm about to bury everything in the back yard to make sure I don't use them and get arrested. What was I thinking, in the first place?
gh/lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 07, 2011 08:24 AM
C'mon Ken, leave your high horse in the barn but trot out the stallion of justice...
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted June 07, 2011 08:24 AM
What's wrong with holstering your firearm and having your hands in the air. For God's sake you are the victim in this scenario. If they tried to Mirandize me, or put me in cuffs, they better be ready for a fight. I understand having to submit your weapon as evidence in the investigation, but they can kindly ask for it. I know he is trying to help in case the "jack-booted thugs" actually arrest the victim, and his advice is sound on getting an attorney and not saying a word, but it just irritates me that it actually needs to be stated in an article that you may be arrested when all you did was defend yourself. It like all the disclaimers we have nowadays because politicians, lawyers, and crybabies are sue happy and blame other people for their stupid shit and lack of common sense. If all the stupid people could just be beaten with a baton we could probably survive just fine with the 10 Commandments as the only law in the land.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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Ken
will be missed
Member # 3065
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posted June 07, 2011 08:33 AM
LOL Tom, I am 5'4" it takes me awhile to get saddled up, besides that my horse is no stallion in real life, it's a simple sway back who wears support, so it's belly does not drag the ground when charging forward.
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I am 5'10",an asshole 220% for sure. Former dirty deed doer for PM. Corrupt too! My name is Festus.
Posts: 281 | From: High Desert | Registered: Aug 2008
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted June 07, 2011 08:48 AM
For those interested, here is the above mentioned adnarim statement, supposedly word for word from Korwin's book.
"I’m interested in cooperating and will exercise my right to remain silent after reading this statement. Please do not attempt to violate my rights in this regard. I want to speak with my attorney. I respectfully ask you to honor this without any purpose of evasion and insist my lawyer be present prior to and during any questioning without exception."
"I refuse to consider to any search of my person, papers, premises, vehicle, immediate location and effects. I invoke my rights under the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 10th and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and any applicable state or federal laws. If you Mirandize me and ask if I’ll speak without my attorney present the answer is no. Thank you for your cooperation, and may I have a glass of water please."
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted June 07, 2011 08:49 AM
Fortunately, it is a ficticous scenario. I can't imagine after being smacked upside the head, dazed, on ones knees, with the "perp" (don't ya love that term) hovering five feet away, with his handgun pointed right in your face, a guy is gonna make the stupid move to fumble for his pistol....the only boom,boom one would hear is the bullets headed for your big melon.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Ken
will be missed
Member # 3065
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posted June 07, 2011 08:59 AM
Hello Vic, hows things in Florida? Any coyotes down your way?
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I am 5'10",an asshole 220% for sure. Former dirty deed doer for PM. Corrupt too! My name is Festus.
Posts: 281 | From: High Desert | Registered: Aug 2008
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted June 07, 2011 09:08 AM
Believe it or not, yes, there are indeed coyotes around here....I just don't know how one would hunt the sonofabitches:) This is fishing country, not huntin country, and I went hunting red snapper last sunday...killed my limit along with a variety of swimming creatures I don't know the names of.
Im literally a fish out of water here, vastly different flora and fauna than my native digs, but I'll get up to speed.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 07, 2011 09:10 AM
Okay, what if he points his gun at you, but since it isn't held sideways, you feel confident that he won't fire while you unlimber your piece?
What if you are struck with an Italian salami and momentarily stunned by the reek of garlic?
What if you turn and run, get shot in the back, (but it's only a flesh wound) drop and roll and manage to get locked into a modified Weaver "stance" and double tap his wiener?
Are there college courses we can take that addresses these issues?
gh/lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted June 07, 2011 09:15 AM
If my aunt had balls; she'd be my uncle.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted June 07, 2011 09:16 AM
"and may I have a glass of water please."
Do not ask for or accept any drink from an open container as it may be drugged with some new chemical to cause you to confess to a crime you didn't commit. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Semp
GOLD STAR MEMBER
Member # 3074
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posted June 07, 2011 09:27 AM
There are only 4 words you need to know:
"I want a lawyer"
Then shut up. The facts will come out. No need to explain to the cops (some of whom are Neanderthals to begin with) and get all twisted up in your shorts.
Everyone who carries a gun for self protection should know the phone number of a lawyer of choice in case it is needed.
[ June 07, 2011, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Semp ]
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Always remember: That court appointed psychiatrist is not your friend.
Posts: 406 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Aug 2008
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Ken
will be missed
Member # 3065
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posted June 07, 2011 09:30 AM
LOL Vic, I was actually shocked when I heard you moved, my first thought was "talk about a fish out water"? But at least you can come HOME when you decide and get after them, at least I hope you would.
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I am 5'10",an asshole 220% for sure. Former dirty deed doer for PM. Corrupt too! My name is Festus.
Posts: 281 | From: High Desert | Registered: Aug 2008
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Ken
will be missed
Member # 3065
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posted June 07, 2011 09:41 AM
Hey don't poke fun at Aunt's with balls, here in the deep inner parts of the Commifornia high desert where the "battle of the bangos" are played late at night, such families exsist. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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I am 5'10",an asshole 220% for sure. Former dirty deed doer for PM. Corrupt too! My name is Festus.
Posts: 281 | From: High Desert | Registered: Aug 2008
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted June 07, 2011 10:15 AM
This statement has nothing to do with this thread, but everyone should read the books On Combat and On Killing by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. Very interesting books. On Combat is especially intriguing.
Jimanaz, mentioning "condition white" is what made me think of it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 07, 2011 10:21 AM
What is condition white? I have only heard of condition 1 and 2?
gh/lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted June 07, 2011 10:26 AM
Hey Vic, CCP ought to be able to help you out. He used to live and hunt coyotes down there in Florida.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted June 07, 2011 10:49 AM
Taken from On Combat
Conditions and heart rate
White: 60- 80 Bpm
Yellow: 80- 120 bpm
Red: 120- 140 bpm
Gray: 140- 180 bpm
Black: 180- 220 bpm
115-145 optimal survival and combat performance level for: complex motor skills, visual reaction time, cognitive reaction time.
Above 175 bpm: irrational fight or flee, freezing, submissive behavior, voiding of bladder and bowels, gross motor skills (running, charging, etc. at highest performance level)
Edit: this is for hormonal or fear induced heart rate, not exercise.
175 bpm: cognitive processing deteriorates, vasoconstriction (reduced bleeding from wounds), loss of peripheral vision (tunnel vision), loss of depth perception, loss of near vision, auditory exclusion.
[ June 07, 2011, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 07, 2011 03:04 PM
Good advice Jim.
As stated, get a lawyer there.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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Ken
will be missed
Member # 3065
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posted June 07, 2011 04:27 PM
OK, time to get serious, because Jim thought this was an interesting issue to dicuss, and it is indeed.
Long before I became a cop, and to this day, I have heard these very issues come up and debated, the endless war stories of getting arrested by the cops for shooting a turd or hurting one for defending yourself, time and time again. It will be debated LONG after we are all dead of old age.
AGAIN I am speaking from California, my experience HERE, no where else. The laws may very, I simply don't know them all.
I have been reading the ARMED citizen in my NRA magazine since 1974 and the many armed encounters common folks have. I don't remember the author ever indicating that the citizen was arrested and booked for murder or assault or any other crime. Did I miss something, or was the author misleading us and leaving out the ugly horror stories for purposes of NRA propaganda?
I told my buddy about this thread when he called, he is still on the job. He laughed and said, "good god, does the fear ever subside", I'd buy a citizen a beer for blowing up a dirtbag. MY thoughts exactly.
ONE TIME, ONE TIME, ONE TIME, did you all read that, have I witnessed or ever heard of a citizen defending his life,family, or property against attack with a firearm or other deadly weapon being arrested by the cops. THAT includes UNARMED burglars.
Yep, I was there, it was not my case, it was the detective called to the scene, he was an idiot, and he pissed off everyone for his actions. Citizens and fellow cops. DID I tell you some cops are idiots?
A man and wife were at a local restuarant having dinner minding their own business. There were a couple of turds sitting near them, drunk and looking for a fight.
The guy with his wife happened to look over at them and one speaks up and says, "what the fuck you lookin at". The other guys says sorry I didn't mean any harm. WELL that wasn't good enough and the turds, they kept chippin.
OOPS to be continued the wife just came home time to go to dinner!!!
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I am 5'10",an asshole 220% for sure. Former dirty deed doer for PM. Corrupt too! My name is Festus.
Posts: 281 | From: High Desert | Registered: Aug 2008
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 07, 2011 04:40 PM
You turd this was getting good. Tell her to wait, be the man of the house!
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 07, 2011 05:16 PM
Ken, you tell the little woman to cool her heels while you BS a little bit with your online chums. Otherwise, you look like a wimp.
Bwahahaha!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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