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Author
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Topic: Advice on WT Sounds
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted September 27, 2009 07:11 AM
"Something I still don't understand Al is how a very few months ago the "Fury" was going to be "IT" and you and your cronies were preaching this thing up like it was going to deliver the coyotes to your doorstep and the world from evil. Let's put this into perspective. That is Fox Pro's flagship product right? So then why is it now you boys are toting the WT knock off product and not the one all of the original commotion was about?"
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Turbo,
Why is it that you hide behind a phony name? Lack of guts I reckon? The "Fury" is the so called "Flagship" for some folks alright, but I have no need for some of the bells and whistles that this caller has. I have always felt that there would be an upgrade to the Fury, mostly because it only holds 8 AA size batteries. The "horn" speaker on the Fury is small but mighty. Volume and clarity of sound is very good. The CS-24 fits my style of calling better, and I really love the 10 watt TOA speaker. You are not the first one to call the CS-24 a WT knockoff, and that statement is not true. The CS-24 has entirely different technology in the circuit board. Reliable remote control range under field conditions is far superior to the WT2030-MS. The 2030-MS is a good little caller for certain, but I have to wonder why these little callers don't have built in protection against accidental frying of a 90.00 circuit board. Foxpro callers have this protection
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted September 27, 2009 07:34 AM
[ September 27, 2009, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Andy L ]
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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TheHuntedOne
Knows what it's all about
Member # 623
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posted September 27, 2009 07:45 AM
Rich,
I agree with you that it is a Knock Off in looks only. Do you know what size amp it is using? Is it the same one as the FX and Fury use?
I also have a question about the Fury that maybe you can answer.
A year ago Clevenger did an E caller Comparison on the Monster board, and he stated that the Horn Speaker in the FX series callers were a very limiting factor, and in fact, if you wanted to get the most out of them you had to add an external speaker.
In the same article, he stated that almost everyone choose the WT as the best sounding caller when he did his blind test.
Now, his new e caller comparison rates the Fury very high, and above the WT if I recall correctly. So did Fox Pro change the front horn speaker in the Fury or are they still using the same one? And if they are using the same one, what accounts for the better sound? A new amp? something else?
Any insight on this would be appreciated.
[ September 27, 2009, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: TheHuntedOne ]
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The On Line Resource For Custom Call Makers
THO Game Calls
Posts: 266 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted September 27, 2009 08:03 AM
Copying someones design and slightly changing it has been around for a long time. I have no idea of the legal limits 'cause I'm not a lawyer.
Look at Paul Mausers Model 1896 and 1898 rifles and look at a Rem 700 or a Winchester M70. After 110 years, they still look like knock offs to me.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted September 27, 2009 08:52 AM
Clever Gary rigged the test by downloading a commercial song to the Ecallers in the test, except the WT which he couldn't. Therefore the WT wasn't included in the blind test. He didn't do a comparison of a actual predator calling sounds. I do believe the WT sounds better than all of the others used in the tests, when playing predator sounds.
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turboranger
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3349
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posted September 27, 2009 08:55 AM
Rich let me first introduce myself as I certainly have nothing to hide behind. I have used my real name on the boards before so I never really gave it any thought. My name is Martin and I live in NH. I came up with the name Turbo Ranger a good number of years back when I was sitting on a hilltop in Utah for the my last mission of Army Ranger School. The instructor was giving us a speech to those that had just passed and said that we had just had gotten a turbo shoved up our asses. He said, and I hold true that what we just accomplished would follow us the rest of our lives and help us get through most anything. I apologize if you still think thats a phony name or I have lack of guts. Now you sir do have a distinguished name that I respect as I have read some very good info and advice from you on the other boards in the past. I do however respectfully disagree with you on some of your points. I am pretty certain that Fox Pro's motivation to copy the WT was more to just get under Bills skin. Otherwise I think that the CS unit would be more than just out of their "custom" shop and more of their mainstream. It seems from what I am reading that it must be better than their Fury model. I have never heard the CS model so I can't compare. I have however heard the Fury and no one is going to convince me that it sounds better that the MS as I own one of those. I also went out on some of the testing and from the Foxpro remote that I got a chance to try I can tell you that there is a significant amount of hype out there about that one. It certainly didn't outperform the WT model and was a bit quirky i.e. jumping over sounds when it was scrolling and not playing the sound everytime that you pushed the button. I am not going to get into alot of bashing so I will leave it at that. I will follow up with that particular testing had nothing to do with remote testing but was a comparision of the sound of the Fury to the Atom and I am simply making an observation of what I saw during general use.
Best Regards,
Martin Nason
[ September 27, 2009, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: turboranger ]
Posts: 28 | From: NH and AZ | Registered: Dec 2008
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TheHuntedOne
Knows what it's all about
Member # 623
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posted September 27, 2009 09:42 AM
Dan
When I read his review, the first thing that came to my mind was that he doesn't like Mr. Martz, Minask fired him, and about the only major player he could suck up to to get his ego fix was FoxPro. It was a complete contradiction of what he wrote last year. Sort of left his credibility in question as to the veracity of the review.
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The On Line Resource For Custom Call Makers
THO Game Calls
Posts: 266 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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turboranger
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3349
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posted September 27, 2009 09:43 AM
On a lighter note here is a weird story for you guys. I went out calling for bears yesterday and got a glimpse of a smaller one heading through the trees on my downwind side. He disappeared and never saw him again. I got back to my truck after walking through the briar bushes and felt something sticking into my leg so I was thinking it was a thorn. Then I felt it again up around my cargo pocket of my fatigues.I felt it and it was a squishy lump. I thought what is in my pocket? So I felt in my pocket and there was nothing. I got a little more hurried at that point and started striping off my pack and gun etc. thinking this can't be good. I yanked down my pants to find a mouse scurrying around in my britches! Now I am not afraid of mice but got to tell you that gave me some pause and I had to think my way through it. Thats just to close to the boys for comfort! Anyway thats probably one of the strangest things to happen to me in a while. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 28 | From: NH and AZ | Registered: Dec 2008
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted September 27, 2009 10:38 AM
quote:
You jump in on this thread to defend your boy Martz, but not once did you mention the sounds Andy L's buddy should get for his caller. I know you're really touchy about whatever "top secret" WT sounds work for you....So why not share here and help out a fellow hunter? Give something useful to this thread, so I can quit pounding Martz with questions that he'll never answer.
LMAO..
I don't need to give Andy any information on what sounds to use. Bill will take care of that when Andy's friend orders his new WT..
Before i ordered my WT i got some input on what sounds to get from a few friends and when it came time to order Bill matched the sounds they recomended perfectly, i did add a few of my own choices of prey distress animals for my area...
Bill has customers from all over the U.S. that give him feed back on his WT sounds so Bill knows what a customer needs and what he dose'nt..
quote:
When I read his review, the first thing that came to my mind was that he doesn't like Mr. Martz, Minask fired him, and about the only major player he could suck up to to get his ego fix was FoxPro. It was a complete contradiction of what he wrote last year. Sort of left his credibility in question as to the veracity of the review.
Exactly..
When i met Clever Gary a few years ago he gave me a tour of his calling rigg and talked about some of the sounds that he uses and at the time he also mentioned he did'nt like Bill...
I thought Gary had an older WT that he could of down-loaded music into for his sound test but if he still has hard feelings for Bill then there would be no reason for him to do that...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
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posted September 27, 2009 11:55 AM
TurboRanger,
Nuts in a vice???? Are you talking about the feeling somebody gets from lying for years and it catching up to them, like Martz?
I understand that you feel the need to help defend your buddy Martz, you're obviously close to him. What you're failing to get out of this as well as anybody else trying to defend him, is that there is misleading information coming direct from WT. Do you understand that? You have no clue about the development or reason for the CS24, so here, have a read and decide for yourself why FoxPro made the thing. I get hundreds of emails and PM's from people wanting to know what caller to get. They base their decisions on websites, magazines, word of mouth etc. The majority of them obviously base it on manufacturers website information. So how does somebody read WT's website and think that their caller is better than a 24bit playing FoxPro? For that matter, why would somebody want the new Mighty Atom over the old KAS2030MS? People read these threads and email me asking what exactly does a WT do? Honestly, I can't answer them on the new model, but can tell them about their prior models. Get this Martin, they're good sounding units, even Mike Dillon will tell you that (See below). It's not about the caller, but about the Martz lies. Check the professionalism used by FoxPro as compared to the tantrum throwing, name slinging Martz too while you're at it. People like to know what kind of company they're dealing with and this thread and others are prime examples. If Martz wants to make FoxPro and Minaska's sales go to a trickle, this is a very unorthodox method...probably not working too well either.
Here it is, please have a read and tell me again, why FoxPro came out with the CS24? I removed lots of other people's comments and Martz bashing portions to try and keep it to just a small novel. If you think you need the rest, email or call me and I'll send it to you. Note that Martz never answers the 24bit/48kHz portion either, and still hasn't. Martin, you're buddy is a liar, plain and simple.
TA17rem,
I'm sure Andy L appreciated your help. Amazing how tough it is for you to say what sounds are productive for you. Martz gave Possum AL bobcat sounds on his caller when there wasn't even a season for them, and Al wanted Muskrat. How's that for letting WT pick em' for ya?
The Texas Predator Posse
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Bill Martz Feb 23 2009, 10:23 PM Post #16
New MemberGroup: MembersPosts: 5Joined: 15-February 09Member No.: 18216Location:Manchester, New Hampshire Shooter asked:1) How may sounds can be loaded on to the WT?Answer-1000 sounds.2) How many sounds can be accessed from the remote?Answer-1000 sounds.3) Is the WT programmable by the end user?Answer-The user can store up to 10 sounds using the favorite key on the keypad in any order they want.4) Can the WT play MP3 or .WAV files or does it have it's own proprietary format.Answer-The system uses uncompressed wav files which are encoded for our protection.5) What is the maximum amount of memory that can be placed on the WT for on board sound storage?Answer-16 gigabytes.6) Does it have any access ports for decoys, external speakers, etc etcAnswer-Our system has remote control output for professional use only. There is no need for an external speaker jack because the systems speaker is all you will need.7) Can it be used without the remote?Answer-No. 8) Is there a maximum length to any individual sound?Answer-Maximum length of a sound is approx. 2 hours.9) Is the entire unit totally self contained (everything contained with in the housing)?Answer- Yes, including the battery case which is permanently attached to the system.10) Can the unit be turned off and on with the remote?Answer-Yes.This should answer all of your questions.Our wildlife callers have been the best in this industry for the last 28 years. They blow away any other electronic wildlife caller available. That's why our company is number 1 in this business without any advertising or free give aways.Bill Martz
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Bill Martz Feb 23 2009, 10:45 PM Post #17
New MemberGroup: MembersPosts: 5Joined: 15-February 09Member No.: 18216Location:Manchester, New Hampshire Reality Outdoors:"Bill, I have a few questions I am wanting to do a comparison of the callers and want to play a song instead of aimal sounds that way all the callers will be playing the same thing. Can we make this happen?"You better hurry up an get it done Eddie. Mike Dillon of FoxPro just announced that he is also going to do a video comparison of wildlife calls."We will also be doing our own video comparison. Remember that not only do you need quality sounds, but a unit that will best portray the quality sounds, and one that will deliver the necessary volume. Remember that the frequency of most of the animal distress sounds out there are portrayed very well by a horn type speaker, which is the most efficient out there, meaning that they deliver the greatest volume. There are a few sounds that will benefit from the use of a cone type speaker. Reality is, however, that the cone speakers are not a good choice for delivering volume. That is why, in our systems, we utilize both a horn type speaker and a cone type speaker, giving you the best compromise for animal sounds, not songs. Our comparison will not only portray music, but also animal sounds, and the frequency response of those sounds will also be displayed. Many will be suprised at the results. Some of the high end systems out there are either lacking in volume, or are not what they claim to be. More about this later."Mike Dillon To be honest, when I first read his post I thought he was joking. This coming from a company that uses a $4.00 alarm transduce as a speaker on their wildlife callers. I guess foxpro must be feeling the heat from the competiton. Through the years we have maintained a fairly low profile till now. Foxpro has made a lot of public statements as of late which border on the ridiculous. From this point forward the people at foxpro (Mike Dillon) will realize the mistake they made by attacking other wildlife caller manufacturers. Bill Martz
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FOXPRO Feb 24 2009, 09:10 AM Post #21
Full Member Group: MembersPosts: 92Joined: 3-March 04Member No.: 106Location:Lewistown, PA Bill,Have you looked at some of our units? If you want to compare volume, maybe you should check out our Snow Crow Pro. The speakers (the SP108Z) used on that are a very high quality speaker, and provide an excellent and smooth frequency response. Simply put, it is the loudest ecaller on the market-----period. Or, maybe check out the Open Country Caller, which comes standard with the SP-55 speaker (an awesome speaker for its size), a 4 inch cone speaker in the rear, and features a built in decoy. Or maybe you should check out some of the units that have come from our custom shop, or speakers such as the SP-FR1. We have the ability to custom make a unit for anyone if we don't have a caller in our lineup that best suits their needs. You see Bill, as we have stated for many years, that the majority of people want a compact caller that offers features that they can really use. Sure, there are those that demand maximum volume, and that is why we offer so many different styles of callers. But you know what our #1 callers still remain to be? The compact ones. And, what is even better is that even though the system is compact in size because of the speakers, the unit was designed with large amplifiers that give the user the choice to plug in whatever speaker he chooses, if he needs to. If he doesn't want the larger speakers, then don't use them, and keep your unit as lightweight as possible. I know you always talk about the small speaker that we use in our units, but the fact remains that with the combination of the horn and cone speaker in our compact units give it the ability to play sounds very well, and offer with the combination an excellent frequency response and plenty of volume. We prefer to give people the choice of what to use, whether it be the caller, speaker, options, etc. If we currently don't have a unit in our lineup that suits there needs, we'll make it. If you want to be able to use whatever sounds you want in your unit, then by all means, put in whatever sound you want via the USB port. Even though we offer a large variety of high quality sounds, it seems limiting for me to insist that someone use our sounds only in their unit. We, like you, have taken measures to protect our sound library for use in our units only, however, we also give them the ability to load their own recordings, if they choose. For me to tell people that they are crazy if they use a remote decoy in addition to their caller--again, crazy. For me to tell someone what is the best speaker to suit their calling style--crazy once again. Some may prefer a cone type speaker that can offer maximum frequency response, but suffers in the volume category. Some may prefer a horn type speaker for maximum efficiency, willing to give up frequency response for loud volume. Some prefer maximum volume from a larger speaker, while others prefer a compact unit. Everyone has a different style of calling, whether it be balls to the wall loud, or just playing at a volume that they can barely hear it. Me, I am not sold on the fact that you need extreme volume to call predators. I started hunting predators when I was 8 years old, and have tried many different ways of calling. I have called coyotes in with an FX3 at half volume from over a mile away, and that was with a 30 mph wind in my face (the footage is shown on our video that we just released). Does that mean that the way that I do it is the only way to do it--absolutely not. For those that prefer extreme volume, just plug an SP-55 into the compact unit, and it turns it into a different animal. If you don't want to mess with an external speaker, look into the Open Country Caller, or we can build you a unit to suit your needs. And yes, we have even built units from a large speaker with the electronics attached. We design our units so that we cast the widest net for our customers, and let them choose how to use them, and not dictate to them that there is only one way to skin a fox. Bill, I will tell you this. The WT's are good sounding units. I have never said otherwise, even though our testing of the KAS 2030 MS has shown that none of the 40 sounds included offer the 24bit / 48 Khz performance as advertised (our new Fury remains to be the only proven unit available to play 24 bit 48Khz sounds). But you shouldn't be nieve in believing that you have the best unit out there for everyone----because you don't, and neither do we. We have units that are louder, offer a better frequency response, are programmable via USB, with more features and a better warranty. Does that mean that everyone is going to buy FOXPRO--no way. But, we are committed to at least winning as many customers as I can by offering them what they want. And remember, it was you that called me out in your post. We are the ones that everyone is chasing. And, I wouldn't have it any other way--it keeps us on our toes and makes us stay focused on being several steps ahead.I can also assure you that the testing will be true and factual, and that anyone with the proper equipment will be able to reproduce the same results that we will be displaying. I also would hope that other people doing testing will include the variety of units offered from us, and not just our compact units, and also utilize the proper test equipment and procedures to verify results. I think it will open a lot of eyes, and hopefully the manufacturers out there that are giving bogus numbers on their websites will think twice before doing it again.edited to add: Shooter, if you want to move this post into a new topic, by all means, please do so. I was brought up by name in this post, and felt the need to respond to it accordingly. If our company name wasn't mentioned, or me personally, I never would have responded.Mike DillonFOXPRO Inc."The Caller of the Wild"
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Bill Martz Feb 24 2009, 10:09 PM Post #23
New MemberGroup: MembersPosts: 5Joined: 15-February 09Member No.: 18216Location:Manchester, New Hampshire Mike Dillon said:"Have you looked at some of our units? If you want to compare volume, maybe you should check out our Snow Crow Pro. The speakers (the SP108Z) used on that are a very high quality speaker, and provide an excellent and smooth frequency response. Simply put, it is the loudest ecaller on the market-----period."As usual, you tend to move your lips before engaging your brain. Or is it simply that you choose not to represent the facts. In either case, I will set the record straight. 1-We were talking about comparing apples to apples and right away you want to compare your snow crow pro to our standard models. Well if you insist, we have a very high powered single speaker system that has an spl of 122db. It is powered by 24 volts and will blow away your snow crow pro. If you doubt this all you have to do is put your money where your mouth is.2-Secondly, no double re-entrent horn speaker has a smooth frequency response but of course you probably didn't know that.Mike Dillon said:" You see Bill, as we have stated for many years, that the majority of people want a compact caller that offers features that they can really use.3-The are 3 reasons you manufacture your compact systems. The first is that you have to keep your manufacturing cost low because most of your sales are gained thru selling your product thru distribution and that comes at a cost. If you had to sell direct to the public you would be reduced to a mom and pop shop because your products can not sell themselves on their own merit. Secondly, the distributor needs to make a minimum of 30 to 40% on your products which in turn forces you to keep your production cost low which limits you to produce a product that's less in quality then it should be. Thirdly, even though your product is supposedly designed to call wildlife, it's geared more to take advantage of the human nature of the hunter then it is to call wildlife. Mike Dillon said:"Sure, there are those that demand maximum volume, and that is why we offer so many different styles of callers. But you know what our #1 callers still remain to be? The compact ones. And, what is even better is that even though the system is compact in size because of the speakers, the unit was designed with large amplifiers that give the user the choice to plug in whatever speaker he chooses, if he needs to. If he doesn't want the larger speakers, then don't use them, and keep your unit as lightweight as possible. I know you always talk about the small speaker that we use in our units, but the fact remains that with the combination of the horn and cone speaker in our compact units give it the ability to play sounds very well, and offer with the combination an excellent frequency response and plenty of volume."4-Why would any hunter buy one of your compact systems knowing that the volume they produce is not sufficient for most calling situations and then buy a large horn type speaker to carry along with the compact model to supplement the volume? Are you saying the internal horn speaker isn't loud enough for wildlife calling?5-You say the combination of the 2 speakers in your compact models gives all the frequency response needed. Well lets take a look at this. The $4.00 compression horn thats located in the front of all your compact models is manufactured exclusively to be used as a car, home, fire, siren alarm transducer. It can't reproduce sound frequencies below 1400hz and doesn't go above 4000hz and yet this is the primary speaker in your compact models. Additionally, the sound frequencies it can reproduce has high distortion and is far from being a flat response. The mylar 3 inch cone speaker you use for the rear speaker has poor frequency response, can only handle limited power and is relagated to cb and toy use.6-So why would you use these less than quality speakers in your compact callers? Maybe it's because your sounds are less than quality recordings. Mike Dillon said:"We prefer to give people the choice of what to use, whether it be the caller, speaker, options, etc. If we currently don't have a unit in our lineup that suits there needs, we'll make it. If you want to be able to use whatever sounds you want in your unit, then by all means, put in whatever sound you want via the USB port. Even though we offer a large variety of high quality sounds, it seems limiting for me to insist that someone use our sounds only in their unit. We, like you, have taken measures to protect our sound library for use in our units only, however, we also give them the ability to load their own recordings, if they choose. For me to tell people that they are crazy if they use a remote decoy in addition to their caller--again, crazy. For me to tell someone what is the best speaker to suit their calling style--crazy once again."7-The customer is always right according to you Mike Dillon. I think the word patronizing is at the top of your vocabulary list. When a customer calls us for advice we give them the straight dope even if they don't want to hear it. Why do we do this? Because we want of our customers to be successful not just 15% of them. Because of this policy, we have the most satisfied customer base in this industry.Mike Dillon said:"I started hunting predators when I was 8 years old, and have tried many different ways of calling." 8-That should by now give you approx. 20 years of hunting experience. Why is it that you had to travel to Texas to shoot your first coyote. Also, why can't you call any coyotes in Pennsyvania with your compact systems? We call coyotes all over the Northeast with no problems. Yes they are more difficult to call here than in the West but that doesn't mean you have to go to Texas to call one unless you're not capable of calling in the Northeast.Mike Dillon said:"We are the ones that everyone is chasing. And, I wouldn't have it any other way--it keeps us on our toes and makes us stay focused on being several steps ahead.9-Mike, we designed the first stand alone cd quality audio board in North America back in 1995. When your company can onto the scene we were already on our third generation design. From approx. 1999 till 2005 your products used a 6 bit electronic circuit designed primarily for the toy industry. Being you are so upfront with your customers, why didn't you explain to them what they were buying during the 6 or 7 years you sold that product? Also, why did it take 4 months for your Fury product to pass FCC certification especially considering that you made an earler statement that your company knows more about rf then anyone in this business. After finally passing the FCC why did you ship hundreds of Fury's out the door knowing they had software and hardware problems? As you probably know we could be in every major mail order hunting catalog. Most of the major players that work at those catalog companies are customers of ours. They encourage us every year to let them put our products into their catalogs. Why do we decline their offer? One, we don't want to reduce the quality of our products to satisfy their profit margin needs and secondly we want to retain total control over our business. We also don't give free callers to so called outdoor writers to promote our products. Instead, we test their knowledge of wildlife to determine if they are qualified to even author a wildlife calling article. To date almost every outdoor writer in North American including their president has called us and promised to promote our product if we would give them a wildlife caller to test. To date we haven't given anyone of them a caller to test. We also don't give free callers to so called pro staff people who also don't know the first thing about wildlife behavior or vocalizations to promote our products. Hunting coyotes is not an art or science. It is a hobby. A very non complex hobby. In closing, we don't prostitute ourselves or our company. After all we all have to look into the mirror once in a while. This is why we are the most respected company in this industry and have been for 28 years with out any advertising. Imagine that.10-Apples to apples. Price for price our product models out perform your Fury or FX5 when it comes to volume, sound quality and ease of use. Maybe if you were as good as you claim to be you could design smaller circuitry which would enable you to utilize 100% of the product volume for the speaker as we do. After all, you seem to purchase every new model we produce to find new ways to improve your products. So what was that you said about every company chasing you for market share? Additionally, our transmitter will match the performance of your new 900Mhz even though we have eliminated the need for an external antenna which no one else in this industry can do. We also just completed a performance comparison between you Fury model and our KAS-2030MS which costs $100 dollars less then the Fury and our model KAS-2030MM which costs the same as you Fury model. This will be posted on our website when time permits.11-One last request. Please stop telling the world that your sounds are better then ours. I will be posting on our website your list of sounds and take a close look at the labels you gave to them versus what the sound actually is. I bet the customers will find that interesting.In closing, you should have kept you mouth shut. We now only have one goal and that is to reduce your market share to zero.Bill Martz
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Bill Martz Feb 24 2009, 10:58 PM Post #24
New MemberGroup: MembersPosts: 5Joined: 15-February 09Member No.: 18216Location:Manchester, New Hampshire To all:The reason I posted a rebuttal to Mike Dillons is because I am tired of the misformation and deception floating around on these boards. The biggest problem you guy's have is trying to find reliable and factual information relating to wildlife calling and wildlife calling products. First I must give you some background history as it relates to this field.
1-We are primarily an engineering company.2-In the engineering world we design state of the art hardware and software.3-We design products other than wildlife callers that are sold in Europe.4-We have been in the wildlife field for almost 29 years.5-We design and produce the best wildlife caller in this field and have been for 23 years.6-We recorded the largest sound library of North American wildlife in the world at a cost of more then 3 million dollars.7-Our sounds are licensed by some of the largest corporations in America.8-We have copyrighted wildlife behavior and their vocalizations more then 24 years ago.9-More professional hunters use our products than all of the rest of the wildlife caller products combined.10-We have more experience in this field than any of our competitors.11-Till now our wildlife callers have been to expensive for the average hunter to purchase. With our new models that has now changed.12-We spend approx 6 months every year on the road thruout Noth America filming (35mm digital 4K) wildlife and recording.13-We have never advertised or sold our products thru vendors. That's why some of you have not heard of us.I will try to answer any legitimate questions you may have when time permits.Bill Martz
clayreid Yesterday, 06:51 AM Post #25
Bwana Group: MembersPosts: 1136Joined: 18-February 06From: archer city texasMember No.: 1598 I guess im head of quality control for both companies . --------------------I HATE RUDE BEHAVIOR IN A MAN........WONT TOLERATE IT .
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FOXPRO Yesterday, 02:36 PM Post #32
Full Member Group: MembersPosts: 92Joined: 3-March 04Member No.: 106Location:Lewistown, PA Bill,First, I would like to start my response to your post by giving you another opportunity to address the fact that your new unit, advertised as 24 bit 48 Khz sample rate, doesn’t appear to deliver this. Below is an oscilloscope screen shot of digital data from our sample of your KAS 2030 MS: The above screen shot shows that the digital data obtained is in fact 16 bit, 32 kHz sample rate, and not 24 bit 48 kHz as advertised. All 40 sounds in the sample unit provided the same results. We believe that you should be able to understand the implication of this screen shot. However, if you don’t, perhaps you should forward this to the German Engineering firm that you contracted with and ask them to explain its meaning to you. If you choose to ignore this second opportunity to address this important issue, then we can only assume that you are providing misleading at best, possibly fraudulent information to your customers. Your customers deserve an explanation. Now, onto the other topics.Bill said:1-We were talking about comparing apples to apples and right away you want to compare your snow crow pro to our standard models. Well if you insist, we have a very high powered single speaker system that has an spl of 122db. It is powered by 24 volts and will blow away your snow crow pro. If you doubt this all you have to do is put your money where your mouth is.A. I have seen no reference of this unit on your website, or by any of the customers who have one. If you really do have such a unit (which seems doubtful), I find it odd that a 24 volt system is only capable of producing an spl of 122 db. Now remember, the Snow Crow Pro can operate on up to 4 of the SP108’s, and comes standard with 2. When you say “blow away”, are you referring to the maximum volume obtained, regardless of frequency? If so, are you sure you really want to make this bet? The Snow Crow Pro, powered by a 12 volt battery, is capable of delivering 121 db spl per speaker at one meter. Make note, that 2 of these speakers come standard with the Snow Crow Pro, and are powered by their own amplifier. With both speakers playing on the Snow Crow Pro, it has an output of 124db at one meter. With all four speakers playing, it has an output of 127db. Now, if my math is correct, 127 db is louder than 122 db, and that is achieved with half the voltage. 2-Secondly, no double re-entrent horn speaker has a smooth frequency response but of course you probably didn't know that.B. Of course, double re-entrants don’t offer smooth frequency response when compared to different types of speakers. However, when we compared other double re-entrants in comparison to the SP108Z, it offered a smoother frequency response. Sorry to confuse you. 3-The are 3 reasons you manufacture your compact systems. The first is that you have to keep your manufacturing cost low because most of your sales are gained thru selling your product thru distribution and that comes at a cost. If you had to sell direct to the public you would be reduced to a mom and pop shop because your products can not sell themselves on their own merit. Secondly, the distributor needs to make a minimum of 30 to 40% on your products which in turn forces you to keep your production cost low which limits you to produce a product that's less in quality then it should be. Thirdly, even though your product is supposedly designed to call wildlife, it's geared more to take advantage of the human nature of the hunter then it is to call wildlife.C. We manufacture a variety of systems, from compact all the way to the Snow Crow Pro. Of course, we want to keep our manufacturing costs as low as possible without sacrificing quality, that is just good business. We started selling directly to the public over 13 years ago, and were very successful in doing so. That is how we got to where we are at today. We realized that we could get a better reach to our customers by offering them to dealers. Again, good business. You say that selling product through distribution comes at a cost? I disagree. Because of our distribution, we are able to take advantage of huge price savings on parts based on quantity. I’ll give you an example. Right now, we could produce a unit that offers everything that your KAS 2030MS does (including the same TOA speaker) and in addition feature true 24 bit capability and more features, and have lower manufacturing costs in it than what is in our compact units—and that’s a promise. You also offer your units to wholesalers, such as AllPredatorCalls, and have to offer the same margins that we do. And, I can bet that you have tried to reach the box stores. Since I have a good relationship with all of them, I will be sure and share your thoughts with them, and bring them up to speed with your post. I will also predict that at some time in the future, you will try to come up with an even cheaper unit, maybe with different types of speakers in an attempt to sell more products. We will be ready and waiting. So who is chasing who? And yes, we will continue to deliver products that answer the wants and needs of our customers, and not be arrogant enough to tell them they are crazy for wanting the features. As far as calling wildlife, I won’t even acknowledge that. Your jabs aren’t quite connecting.4-Why would any hunter buy one of your compact systems knowing that the volume they produce is not sufficient for most calling situations and then buy a large horn type speaker to carry along with the compact model to supplement the volume? Are you saying the internal horn speaker isn't loud enough for wildlife calling?D. It is your belief that everyone out there should be calling with "balls to the wall" volume. That is not my belief. I understand that there are those that fall into the category, and that is why our systems were designed with powerful amplifiers to address the wants and needs of this customer. However, there are also plenty that prefer a compact unit. As I stated earlier, I have called coyotes in from over a mile away with a 30mph wind in my face, and that was with an FX3 at half volume. So why carry the extra weight of a larger speaker if you don’t need to? For those that don't want to carry the extra speaker and demand louder volumes, you might want to look into the Open Country Caller, another unit in our lineup.5-You say the combination of the 2 speakers in your compact models gives all the frequency response needed. Well lets take a look at this. The $4.00 compression horn thats located in the front of all your compact models is manufactured exclusively to be used as a car, home, fire, siren alarm transducer. It can't reproduce sound frequencies below 1400hz and doesn't go above 4000hz and yet this is the primary speaker in your compact models. Additionally, the sound frequencies it can reproduce has high distortion and is far from being a flat response. The mylar 3 inch cone speaker you use for the rear speaker has poor frequency response, can only handle limited power and is relagated to cb and toy use.E. First, you keep referring to the horn speaker. Let me address that first. Every single horn speaker that we get is completely disassembled and reworked by us to give us the best sound possible out of this speaker. They are then swept through a signal generator to verify that they are up to our specs. If not, they get thrown away. And, I love your word transducer. Any speaker is a transducer. Then, one week you say that this speaker can’t reproduce frequencies below 1400 Hz, another week you say 1300 Hz, and your website says 600 Hz. Let me set the record straight for you, since you are having trouble with the real numbers. Since you have already established a 40 db window for frequency response by stating yours at 315 Hz to 12.5 kHz, we will now give you our frequency response utilizing this same 40 db window. Our horn speaker has a frequency response of 275 Hz to above 20kHz. Our cone speaker has a frequency response , with the same 40 db window, of 45 Hz to above 20 kHz. Imagine that, better frequency response using “toy” speakers. 6-So why would you use these less than quality speakers in your compact callers? Maybe it's because your sounds are less than quality recordings.F. I think I have already addressed the speakers. When we started our business years ago, the drive was to develop a compact unit that could fit into a coat pocket. At that time, your unit was offered in a backpack, and not the preferred choice for many customers. Now, it is kind of ironic to see your systems get smaller and smaller, and as I stated earlier, I can bet where you are heading (that must drive you crazy). Ok, now the sounds. The sounds in our new Mark II sound library were recorded 24 bit with professional recording equipment, down to the microphone. Now, because the 40 sounds that are on your newest units have been identified as being 16 bit / 32 kHz, it makes one wonder if any of your sounds are 24 bit / 48 kHz. We have been committed to adding new sounds to our library. Our Mark II sound library now offers over 100 sounds, and our total sound library is up over 300. We are constantly traveling across the country to retrieve more sounds. Bill says: We recorded the largest sound library of North American wildlife in the world at a cost of more then 3 million dollars.Man, it would suck to spend that much money on a library of sounds that might only be 16 bit. 7.-The customer is always right according to you Mike Dillon. I think the word patronizing is at the top of your vocabulary list. When a customer calls us for advice we give them the straight dope even if they don't want to hear it. Why do we do this? Because we want of our customers to be successful not just 15% of them. Because of this policy, we have the most satisfied customer base in this industry.G. Yes, Bill, I come from the school that says the customer is always right. I may not agree with them, but if I have the ability to give them what they want, then by all means, I am going to do just that. It may mean addressing features that they want added to their unit, such as an LCD screen that they can actually see the names of the sounds without relying on a paper card, or maybe it is more volume steps, or a decoy function. Maybe it is giving them the ability to add their own sounds, or just giving them a great warranty. Maybe it is giving them a timer on the transmitter that they can tell how long they have been on stand, or a volume indicator that will display how loud the unit is playing. Maybe it is custom presets that give them the ability to store not only their favorite sounds, but also at a pre-determined volume level. Or maybe it is giving them sequences that will give them hands free operation during their stands. And the list could go on. You call it patronizing, I call it good business and excellent customer service. 8-That should by now give you approx. 20 years of hunting experience. Why is it that you had to travel to Texas to shoot your first coyote. Also, why can't you call any coyotes in Pennsyvania with your compact systems? We call coyotes all over the Northeast with no problems. Yes they are more difficult to call here than in the West but that doesn't mean you have to go to Texas to call one unless you're not capable of calling in the Northeast.H. Again Bill, your personal jabs just aren’t reaching. But, to answer your question, no I have not shot a PA coyote. I have called in plenty so the call did its job, but for a variety of different reasons, I have not connected with a PA coyote. I have shot plenty of fox over the years in PA. I am fortunate to get to travel all over the country hunting coyotes. I have killed coyotes, bobcat, and fox in Texas, Oklahoma, California, South Dakota, California, Maryland, Arizona, New Mexico, Wyoming, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and other states. But, go ahead and take your jab at the PA coyote. I am man enough to take it. How about you?9-Mike, we designed the first stand alone cd quality audio board in North America back in 1995. When your company can onto the scene we were already on our third generation design. From approx. 1999 till 2005 your products used a 6 bit electronic circuit designed primarily for the toy industry. Being you are so upfront with your customers, why didn't you explain to them what they were buying during the 6 or 7 years you sold that product? Also, why did it take 4 months for your Fury product to pass FCC certification especially considering that you made an earler statement that your company knows more about rf then anyone in this business. After finally passing the FCC why did you ship hundreds of Fury's out the door knowing they had software and hardware problems? As you probably know we could be in every major mail order hunting catalog. Most of the major players that work at those catalog companies are customers of ours. They encourage us every year to let them put our products into their catalogs. Why do we decline their offer? One, we don't want to reduce the quality of our products to satisfy their profit margin needs and secondly we want to retain total control over our business. We also don't give free callers to so called outdoor writers to promote our products. Instead, we test their knowledge of wildlife to determine if they are qualified to even author a wildlife calling article. To date almost every outdoor writer in North American including their president has called us and promised to promote our product if we would give them a wildlife caller to test. To date we haven't given anyone of them a caller to test. We also don't give free callers to so called pro staff people who also don't know the first thing about wildlife behavior or vocalizations to promote our products. Hunting coyotes is not an art or science. It is a hobby. A very non complex hobby. In closing, we don't prostitute ourselves or our company. After all we all have to look into the mirror once in a while. This is why we are the most respected company in this industry and have been for 28 years with out any advertising. Imagine that.I. First, we have yet to see a cd quality audio board from you dating back to 1995. CD quality is 44.1kHz, 16 bit stereo. Your system then was 16 bit, 32 kHz mono. Not what anyone would call cd quality. When we first came on the scene, once again, our drive was for a compact system capable of fitting in a coat pocket. They weighed in at 1.5 lbs, and not 11 lbs without batteries. And, it was proven to be a very successful and popular unit. We never have deceived to our customers that the units were something that they really weren’t, as you suggest. Just the opposite is true, Bill. You continue to pump misinformation on your units (and competitors units) to anyone that will listen, but the fact remains just that. It is misinformation, and we feel that you should be held accountable for all of the misinformation given by you over the years. As far as the Fury transmitter taking 4 months to certify, wrong again. The Fury was delayed due to wildfires in CA, but never took 4 months to get certified. As I stated elsewhere, the Fury passed as submitted with no modifications required. As far as our company knowing more about rf than anyone else, I still stand behind that statement. Do you care to explain why you abandoned the FRS radios that you once used? We know the real answer to that question, Bill. We did not knowingly, as you suggest, ship out Fury’s with known hardware or software issues. They were discovered after the units were shipped, and we have since resolved the issue. Not every unit was affected. We never have claimed to be a perfect company, and to at times make mistakes. More importantly, we don’t hide behind a lie, but stand up, admit fault, and resolve the issue. I also stated earlier that I am sure that you have tried to reach the box stores. And, I can promise you that the powers to be there are not customers of yours, Bill. But, like I said, I will bring them up to speed on your comments. Your comment about reducing the quality to satisfy their profit margin needs—again, you are already doing it for AP. Also, because of our quantity, quality actually goes up. Imagine that Bill. It gives us the ability to purchase necessary equipment to ensure the highest quality, and also employ proper personnel to build our units. We were once like you, relying on pcb assembly houses to populate parts on the boards. We got tired of relying on them to supply us, and also to rely on them to find any issues, so we decided to bring everything under one roof. We have our own surface mount machine that runs all circuit boards, giving us complete control over the entire manufacturing process, which has improved quality. How about you? We are the only company in the industry that does everything under one roof. We design the units, manufacture with American labor, and build the units from start to finish, and ship them right here. As far as advertising, man, you have a short memory. You must forget the times when you advertised in Predator Extreme (might have been Varmint Masters at the time), and had your ad pulled. We also have on record an apology from your partner at that time for the ad. We advertise in many magazines, and offer writers discounts on our units if they want one. To me, it not only helps to promote our product, but it also supports the sport of predator hunting. I may not agree with the writers, but I do agree in the magazines attempt at keeping the predator industry alive and well. We also support more contests and events with products. Why? Sure, it helps promote the product, but more importantly, it is a way to give back to the industry that has done so well for us. How about you, Bill. When was the last time you supported a contest, event, or anything else in the predator industry? As far as being the most respected company in the industry, you may want to check that mirror out again. 10-Apples to apples. Price for price our product models out perform your Fury or FX5 when it comes to volume, sound quality and ease of use. Maybe if you were as good as you claim to be you could design smaller circuitry which would enable you to utilize 100% of the product volume for the speaker as we do. After all, you seem to purchase every new model we produce to find new ways to improve your products. So what was that you said about every company chasing you for market share? Additionally, our transmitter will match the performance of your new 900Mhz even though we have eliminated the need for an external antenna which no one else in this industry can do. We also just completed a performance comparison between you Fury model and our KAS-2030MS which costs $100 dollars less then the Fury and our model KAS-2030MM which costs the same as you Fury model. This will be posted on our website when time permits.J. Really Bill. I guess you will just have to wait for the results of the video comparison. Hmm, I wonder where you got the Fury from that you talk about? You say that we buy your products, but you just admitted to doing the same thing. I guess it’s ok for you, and not for us. I can bet that you also have every one of our units out there. Where else would your inconsistent data come from? Here is some more for you to ponder at. This information comes directly from your website. You claim that ” the audio signal chain is completely digital from the digital audio files to the digital amplifier at the end of the processing chain. Audio of this quality is usually only found in professional equipment.” Now, the truth. The truth is that there is a conversion to analog within your unit at the DAC. This analog signal is then delivered to the analog input of your power amplifier. More misinformation Bill. You also claim that your system has a signal to noise ratio of 96db, and dynamic range of 106db. Can you please explain how you derived these numbers, as obviously you did not measure them. With the 16 bit audio that is present in your caller, the best that you can hope for is 93db dynamic range unweighted. By your own admission, in a post you made on another board, you normalize your sounds to a -2db level, thereby throwing away an additional 2db of dynamic range, thereby giving you a net best of 91db dynamic range. You also say that your transmitter will match that of our FHSS. Are you really sure? I think you will find otherwise. Remeber, we are very familiar with the technology that you have switched to in your units. You will see the results in the video comparison. As far as the antenna, we have been thinking of doing away with our antennas for years. There is an obvious cost savings, which would be the main drive. However, we had a few concerns in doing so. There is nothing ingenious in designing out an external antenna. Replacing an external antenna with an internal one involves some compromies. We are more focused on making product changes that will truly benefit our customers, and not our manufacturing cost in a unit. I will be waiting for you comparison between the Fury and the KAS-2030MS. I only hope that the information you post is true and factual for your sake. In closing, you should have kept you mouth shut. We now only have one goal and that is to reduce your market share to zero.Bill, my focus will still remain to be what it always has been. Bring out the best products to address the wants and needs of every predator hunter. This is a much more customer oriented goal, and the only one that our company will remain focused on.To others reading this post. First, I would like to apologize that you have to be subject to this. When Bill posted, we had a choice. Ignore him, or stand up to him. Ignoring him could give the perception that we are either afraid to engage him, or are not intelligent enough to call his bluff. We decided that it was to the benefit of our customers to engage and respond to his post, and we will continue to do so as long as he continues to misinform anyone who will listen. Eddie,No, I didn’t start this. Bill chose to call me out by name, and referenced our company. If I singled you out by name in any thread, does that not allow you to reply? If he had never singled me or our company, I wouldn't have responded. This has been Bill’s mode of operation for years. You need to look at his track record, and realize that he has been banned from almost every forum out there. You can also bet that if you started a FOXPRO thread here, I would not make the personal attacks on Bill, as he has done everyone else. If I did, I would do so expecting him to reply. I will get in touch with you regarding the PM you sent me.Clay,See you in April. Mike DillonFOXPRO Inc.“The Caller of the Wild”
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Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted September 27, 2009 01:03 PM
Fuck you TA.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted September 27, 2009 02:32 PM
Well thanks Andy..If I may ask what is the reason for youre last comment???
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted September 27, 2009 02:39 PM
turboranger,
Pleased to meet you Martin. No, the Fury doesn't sound better than a CS-24. To my ears, the Fury's "Horn" speaker sounds plenty good, but the CS-24 has it beat. When comparing sound quality, I think the CS-24 and the WT 2030MS are about equal. Some of the Foxpro TX-500 remote controls did have some of the problems you mention when they first came out, but these problems have been resolved.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted September 27, 2009 02:45 PM
TheHuntedOne,
To be honest, I don't know what size the amplifier is in a CS-24. The little bugger is LOUD though. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
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posted September 28, 2009 10:53 AM
Rich,
To date, the CS24 appears to be the loudest caller in that class. I should have my CS24 here soon and will test out the TX500 against the new WT remote and see how they compare both for range and response time. If you compare them, please let me know how they did, thanks.
More to come...
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
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George Ackley
Knows what it's all about
Member # 898
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posted September 28, 2009 12:19 PM
I would take any of the calls listed in this thread into the field, they all will help kill predators!! most likely one is no better at helping actually killing predators then the othere. They are only a tool!
Now for me to be truthful I have to add this, WHEN I do use a electronic call (and it isn't often that i do) I would think I could kill the same predator with my old ass 512 that I could kill with any of the listed in this thread .plan and simple the thing puts fur on the ground. I have the new JS MP4, only so I don't have to deal with the wires.I have my dislike with that call also, like the horn of the speaker coming off all the time, or that dam red light on the back is so hard to see at night because its of its low location on the unit But at the and of the day it work well .now let me get to what my reply is all about. I may not have the people skills I would like to have, and like Bill M. I may also tell you like I see it . AND THIS IS HOW I SEE IT fox pro isn't a bad call ! to me the guy running the show at fox pro is a ass!!! He is a hell of a sales man but like most salesman they lye . . and since the 2 biggest things in live I dislike are lyers and thieves I have nothing good to say about fox pro and it ceo.he may not be a thief but he shore is a lyre .
and when I say lyer I mean he would lye striate faced to you about facts , so yea - - - - FOXPRO and i may as well add - - - - GG also.
PS
Mike if you see this I don't wish to bring up old shit but i did get the paper work I need from my friends up north to prove my case .
electronics are a tool. its the look at me guys that are the trouble.
peace and good day,time for me to hit the stand to stick some groceries ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ September 28, 2009, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
Posts: 465 | From: PHILA . PA | Registered: Jul 2006
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted September 28, 2009 12:54 PM
Wow all those close pargraphs made my eye's hurt!
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted September 28, 2009 01:18 PM
TA17 wrote: If a hunter just wants to call to just any coyote then he can get by with any brand of E-caller but if you want to work coyotes that have been around for some time i feel that the WT is the caller to have.. Great volume and great sounds,As for sounds they are the best there is and there is no reason to have any other sounds or make the WT down-loadable.
Look I have no beef with you at all, but that is nothing but an opinion on your part, that can't be backed with ANY facts. You think a coyote gets wary of a rabbitt in distress? Or is it the tone/pitch, timing and location of the sound? Not all stands are ideal to kill coyotes from and ones that allow them to detect a caller before he starts or uses the same approach and sounds at the same times means less success. Heck timing of the year can take a wise ol' coyote and make him/her look dumb.
I feel more coyotes are tipped off to location than any other reoccurance. People look for the so called "text book" locations and then educated coyotes on wind,misses and many other things, to me calling is alot like trapping I can setup durring high fur prices in the "text book" locations along with the rest of them or use secondary locations that lead to these text book locations and get them before they hit the pan or snare loop of the other people all crowding each other on the text book spots.
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
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posted September 28, 2009 02:34 PM
Sorry about that Coyote Whacker, I was going to try and format it, but it was just too long. I probably should've made it an attachment to the post, but thought it would be quicker that way.
Leonard,
Thanks for the great forum and for not banning anybody, keeps things interesting.
AndyL,
Just curious if your buddy decided on his soundlist, if so, what sounds did WT recommend? I forgot to mention, the Coyote Adult Distress (CADIS, filename if WT needs it) is a pretty productive sound for lots of guys. Hope that helps.
[ September 28, 2009, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted September 28, 2009 02:57 PM
Bill Martz wrote: One more thing, I took a picture of my FoxPro speaker today. Here it is next to a U.S. 1 dollar bill, which was also Made in USA." The speaker is made in the far East, the antenna is made in Taiwan, the circuit board components are made in China, Korea and Taiwan. Now you can understand why I think you are a moron.
Bill question How many people in NH do you have on your payroll beside you and your wife? A rough number would be great!
Many people make things with parts made over seas, yet they still employee American workers to assemble the product turning more dollars in our economy as well. They say for each millionair 3 more are created due to the money turning over.
I think his point is FP has a staff of people in PA that are hired and paid from FP sales even though the parts are made in other country's. The assembly and designs are all done in the US. So the more americans employed the better off for our job picture to.
So the more assembly WT would do in the US it would stand to reason the more people you would have employed in the US if your sales are sufficant to the demand. The more demand the more people on the payroll and the more that money turns into the local economys.
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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George Ackley
Knows what it's all about
Member # 898
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posted September 28, 2009 04:10 PM
edited by George i thought you were talking to me
peace
no writing skills here either ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
[ September 28, 2009, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
Posts: 465 | From: PHILA . PA | Registered: Jul 2006
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted September 28, 2009 08:52 PM
Are you guys seriously arguing that ONE caller calls in more critters then the other? Seriously? They all work worry about more important things in calling then what damned brand you use!
I've seriously lost brain cells reading this post
[ September 28, 2009, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: nd coyote killer ]
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted September 28, 2009 09:26 PM
Rich, whatever changes, or differences there are between the WT and the 24 the concept and the idea of an in the horn caller was DEVELOPED by WT.
No that doesn't mean someone can't take it 3 years later, change something, and stand up and say how we have the greatest. This is the thing that tells me all I need to know about FP.
They are not leaders they are a company relying on others to put forth the $$$$ to put out a product and then try to take that which others have developed and profit from it. Legal sure, but as a call maker yourself something that is not done by all, just some.
I guess if you can show me something WT has taken from FP technology and incorporated it into the WT products I'll say uncle!
Rich I have no idea how I could hook up my power supply reversed??? The older model possibly with the lead battery.
They have had the best recorded real animal sounds which now everyone is trying to immitate. Volume for years no one was close, ease of operation, well for a lot of years I have been able to get sounds, change volume, turn it off and on when ever I have wanted to. That's all I need. It doesn't have to be some gameboy.
If I had the amount of time and money invested in the recording of those sounds I would be dammed if I would let them out unless you bought one of my callers and that's where they would stay. One of the few things WT can protect. It's good business in my opinion.
I can see why the other ecallers are different and programable, they don't have the sounds to protect and have not had them for many years. Take the sound library from FP 3 years ago and compare it to WT's 3 years ago which one has more to lose
We all know who has been ahead of the pack in ecallers since it came out, WT!
Big George, your right it is just a tool , it's value is in the hands of who holds it!!
Shaw and Geordie, I didn't use HUMPA once
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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TheHuntedOne
Knows what it's all about
Member # 623
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posted September 29, 2009 03:26 AM
quote:
your right it is just a tool
So is a Pipe Wrench, but you probably wouldn't want to pound nails with one all day long. It'll work, but you could just go get a hammer and do it right the first time. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
If you understand the analogy?
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The On Line Resource For Custom Call Makers
THO Game Calls
Posts: 266 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted September 29, 2009 05:17 AM
Randy,
WT callers are good. Foxpro is the first to use signal hopping technology in an electronic caller, and now leads the pack in a race for longer range remote control reliability under actual field conditions. The Foxpro sound library has improved greatly in the last couple of years. Foxpro believes in truth in advertising. The Dillon brothers do not come on public boards and call people morons.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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