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Author
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Topic: USO 5x25
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted April 04, 2013 01:26 PM
Tim, it it depends on objecive & ocular size + glass treatment('s). When i decide on a scope i make a decision based on the rifle it's going on. If you are shooting off a bench, bigger is better. Shooting out of a window, bigger is better. When you go out walking & stalking smaller is way better. I hunt mostly on foot and i'm way past carrying a 6x20x50mm mounted on a bull barreled rifle regardless of how accurate it is. Cost is the biggest factor for most scope shoppers. There seems to be several affordable scopes out there that fit most anyones budget. I much perfer low powered quality scopes because i shoot offhand a bunch. I turn the power ring to it's lowest power and usually leave it there. When i get a shot i shoot, i don't twist the power ring up to let'em get out a ways before shooting. With a low powered scope i'm not afraid of making a (safe) running shot regardless of a scope being on 1.5x. If you can see it, shoot it. If all you see is hair and not a clear outline of your target you are way more likely to shoot one in the ass. But thats just my habits, if your way works for you thats ok with me.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 04, 2013 02:00 PM
Just curious if you use just the lowest setting on a variable why buy a var. and just get a fixed power instead.. And also if weight and size is a concern look at one of the Eotech weapon sites, not very big in size and you can also add a power booster.
I know what you mean about size and weight and I went to a smaller scope with a fixed 4x and lighted reticle for when I'm hunting behind the dog.And went with this scope.
One of the neg. I found by going to a smaller scope/shorter tube is there is'nt enough room to attach my night light to it..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5063 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted April 04, 2013 02:26 PM
The quality of the glass is my biggest reason. If i'm in the mountains i sometimes switch to a 3x10 mainly because i can find a rest. Khales use to offer a straight 2.5x 30mm scope that was as good as anything i have looked thru, then or now. And my night time stuff is all handheld.
Tom and i talk all the time about Aimpoints vs low powered scopes. His 1x6 w/firedot is new and exciting probably best served when mounted on an AR type rifle but don't be suprised if i mount one on a CZ 527 if it will balance when mounted. If not, it will find a home on the 6mmAI M7, or an AR.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted April 04, 2013 02:59 PM
Anybody tried a Burris Eliminator?Having screwed with multiple 'range finders' that often don't 'find',I guess I'm skeptical but the concept is intriguing.
I hear claims but can't believe that laser is picking up a coyote on snow.
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 04, 2013 03:15 PM
I looked up the luepold with fire dot. The only thing its got going for it is the auto-matic switch, you still have to turn it on just like other scopes with lighted reticle or the aim points or halo scopes. If you have it turned on and are walking the switch is going to kick in and out all day.. Kind of a neat idea though..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5063 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted April 04, 2013 03:16 PM
never tried the Burris however, will gladly field test one for you ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 04, 2013 03:26 PM
quote:
Burris Eliminator
When I was at one of the Mr coyote contests there was a shooter there from Kansas that had one mounted on his rifle that I got to look at. Pretty neat but was like any other range finder you need to find a smooth/flat surface to reflect the lazer off of. It picked up the steel targets and a few fence posts pretty good.. It may not be too bad to have if you wanted to limit the amount equipement you carry...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5063 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted April 04, 2013 03:35 PM
DiYi, i had to look that one up. 1500$ dang! they're proud of it. Someone, Swarovski maybe(?) had a version of that type of scope awhile back, not sure how it worked tho. Someone once told me that Lazering on snow is about as tough a job that we could ask for. The reflections made/make it hard to retrieve accurate data.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted April 04, 2013 03:49 PM
DiYi, i failed to ask if you have had past business with Burris' customer service lately? I have been told most of their products are now from Asia. I'm not sure if their USA (Colorado) factory is still open. And i must add, they use to offer excellent customer service.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted April 04, 2013 04:08 PM
Tim, don't miss the daylight bright firedot. Most illuminated reticles aren't visible in the full sun. Oh and the dot goes off after 5 minutes of not moving at all.
Fred, yep it's right at home on a machine gun.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted April 04, 2013 04:09 PM
Sweet!
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted April 04, 2013 04:53 PM
Tom, do you remember the day we spent all day chronoing the AR's out back? We shot our handloads & govt "surplus" in about a dozen different chine guns that day. You took a couple of pic's of the guns, anyways Ryan asked if i still had a photo from that shoot. I don't but maybe tou do? If so could you send me a copy?
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 04, 2013 05:53 PM
Side note: I have seen a number of coyotes spook at a laser, like getting hit with a branding iron except you don't even need to put it on him, just moving that laser in his direction can make him real jumpy on a moonless night.
Good hunting. El Bee
Now, MFK free!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted April 04, 2013 06:06 PM
I have seen the same thing when glassing w/ night vision. Hit the intensifier on a coyote, or a dog and it will get their attention. The older range finders were bad about blowing your cover if you put it on them.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted April 04, 2013 07:16 PM
No Mike, I don't have that pic but I do still have the Chrono tapes from the Ohler.
Cuzz has one of them green laser lights, it's pretty impressive and he swore it didn't spook coyotes or deer, until it did... It does work good on hogs though, at least that's what he says.
Remember the crow and range finder story? A buddy of ours, who shall remain nameless said while in the Army, he ranged a crow with one of their high powered range finders and noticed the crow was bothered by it, so he kept bothering him, evidently the warnings about keeping it away from eyes was correct.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted April 05, 2013 05:46 AM
Tom, that 1-6X looks about perfect on there!
Tim, was just wanting to impress upon you the fact that tube diameter has nothing to do with light transmission, lens size, or field of view. Companies use a larger tube to fit more shit inside, thats it Quality internals with copius adjustment range need room to operate. That's why ya see alot of "tactical" scopes with even 34 or 35mm main tubes to accomdate internals that adjust for 100+ MOA of elevation travel.
And if a scope has an illuminated reticle, that requires extra space. Bigger tube, more space to fit shit inside. Larger lens are housed in the objective bell, and the ocular housing, completely independant of the main tube itself...
Just saying that a 30mm tube, in & of itself does not equate to being 'brighter', or automatically offer a larger field of view than a 1" tube. So, I wouldn't want to see guys go out and buy a 30mm version of a scope thinking it's gonna be somehow "better" for night hunting, or "better" for shooting runners. That it simply not the case...
FWIW, I've got a couple of Kahles scopes with 1" tubes and will put them up against any 30mm tube in their price range. When set at the same exit pupil for a brightness and FOV comparison, those little 1" tubed beauties will kick azz and take names...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 05, 2013 07:23 AM
Pretty tuff to come up with more than one brand of scope thats equal to the other as far as power settings and lens size but managed to find a few for comparison.
SS 10 X 42 30 mm tube
Field of view at 100- 13'
obj. dia. 1.47
Kahles helia 3.5-10x50mm 1" tube
Field of view at 100 yds. 13.1
obj. 1.96
Swarovski Z3 3-10X 42mm 1" tube
field of view at 100 yds. 11.7
Luepold VX3 3.5-10X 50mm 1" tube
Field of view at 100 yds. 11'
As you can see the leupold with 1" tube and 50mm lens gains nothing as far as increaseing field of view.It may help with gathering more lite but I did'nt see that happening in one of my scopes with a 50 mm lense but may perform differently under a full moon/clear sky or use of a spot light....
With power settings being the same both of the top two 30mm scopes had a larger field of view of 2 feet over the one inche tubes..
The SS and Kahles were pretty close for field of view but the Kahles also had a larger eye lens. If the lens would of been the same then the SS with 30mm tube would of won as far as field of view goes..
The SS sells for around 400.00 vrs. the Kahles which sells for 1400.00... The Kahles has the better glass but as far as shooting coyotes go you don't need the higher priced stuff..
All I can add is if you look through a scope with a larger eye lense than another scope you have a larger bubble to work with which makes picking up a moveing target that much quicker as you don't have to be as critical with eye alignment.. And if the eye lense and obj. lenses are both larger than another scope you will gather more light to see with and a 30mm tube adds to this as well.
But like Fred said if you have a 30mm scope that has a shit load of other features then you will loose some as far as field of view or light gathering capabilties..
As for the field of view numbers I got them off the Swfa site..
Edit to add: I'm not trying to sell one scope brand over another just giveing some ideas of what to look for in a scope as everyone has there favorite brands. Just by looking at varis brands of scopes a buyer has to make some sacrifices here or there on what they want and what they intend to use it for. For example if you want a compact scope most may not have the power setting you would like or lite gather capabilities. Not one size fits all and I guess thats why they have so many to choose from...
I can't believe how much the prices have gone up on the dam things...
[ April 05, 2013, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5063 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted April 05, 2013 07:55 AM
Tim your post shows why i use the low powered scopes. The 30+ yr old design Leupold 1.5x5varix3 has OVER 60 ft field of view at 1.5x.
The VX6 1x6 Tom has, has 190+ ft field of view at 1.1(?)x. That is the reason i use a low powered scope. If a persons eyes require a higher powered scope to spot game, thats the way it goes. I will gladly sacrafice the extra magnifacation anyday of the week when i'm walking & stalking. If a person is shooting with a rest the higher magnification isnt as much of a handicap as it will be shooting offhand at any reasonable distance using say, 6x and up.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted April 05, 2013 08:10 AM
Tom,
Here's a new(and nice)option for your machine gun.
http://www.valdada.com/1-5-8x26-35mm-trident-tactical-ffp-308-bdc-knob-circle-dot-x1-super-bright-reticle
P Picker,
Sorry,just saw your question.No,no recent dealings with Burris.I've been happy in the past with their stuff but I have 4 by 16 with BDC (think it's a 'Euro Diamond'?)that I'm not happy with.In fact that may be part of any trade I would make with SWAFA.
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted April 05, 2013 08:26 AM
DIYI, thanks for posting that, it lets me know what a bargain the vx6 is. It's hard to believe how expensive good scopes have become.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted April 05, 2013 08:34 AM
quote:
you will gather more light to see with and a 30mm tube adds to this as well
NO, it doesn't add shit to the equation.
So, quit spreading that 2nd hand PM-esque "knowledge" around as if it were true. Its not true, and you are in the wrong to spread it as if it were.
Fact: the average healthy human eye has a pupil that is 7-8mm wide. All visual light must pass thru that little opening for your little brain to process it.
So, tell me how a tube that is 30mm wide makes any fucking improvement in "brightness" between a tube that is 25.4mm (1") wide when the pupil is only 8mm wide, at best?
The fact of the matter is that tube size doesn't "add to" or "help" in any way, shape, or form to what you perceive to be "better".
Lens size, grind & polish, coatings and their relationship to each other is what counts. Always has, always will. Tube size don't mean shit. Never has, never will...
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted April 05, 2013 08:43 AM
Tom,
![[Smile]](smile.gif) Yeh,no chit!!!Day after day I look at option after option and most are way out of whack money wise.
Again,an hour ago I 'made up my mind',got on the phone and it was backordered.Good thing cause I've changed my mind twice since. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Damn I hate to pull the trigger without actually seeing the scope!That keeps bringing me back to my old tried and trues plus maybe Kahles.NEVER have talked to anyone that didn't like them.Maybe I'll go back and look at them again.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted April 05, 2013 09:06 AM
Tom, JC is deranged! I asked him once if he used a magnifying glass on himself "before" he joined the Army. He gave me that "oh yeah" look, took his note pad out and wrote himself a memo. He has some serious hearing damage these days, and as typical, the Army/VA haven't done a G.D. thing about it. That's why he left the service early.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted April 05, 2013 09:34 AM
Tim, people have staged tests to pump a certain brand of scope for years. There are twisted truths & outright lies posted in magazine articles & on the www pertaining to what brand pays the most advertising $$$$. I promise you Fred is offering some very intelligent advice concerning scope selections. His advise is free and from what I have read is as unbiased as anyone worth repeating.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted April 05, 2013 11:52 AM
Well backed off for now and went back to familiar ground.Ordered this scope which I have already sold if I don't like it-minus $50.
http://swfa.com/Swarovski-3-10x42-Z3-Riflescope-P40817.aspx
Basically cause:I know it's decent glass and the reticle thickness is the same or near same as the Leupold 'Varmint' which I now have on a couple rifles;some rejected cause of size,weight and/or exposed turrets;but mainly cause I can immediately move it if I want and a friend in the business is going to arrange for me to look at a 3 by 15 Valdada FFP illumunated and the Kahles 3 by 10 SFP with the 4-D Dots(illuminated).
Bought at SWAFA cause they take trades(very fair)and their list on this was $100 cheaper than most.
Just damn glad I'm done-at least for awhile.
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