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Author
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Topic: Questions on New Barrel for a .22-6mm Improved 40°
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WhiteMtnCur
Knows what it's all about
Member # 5
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posted March 26, 2014 12:00 PM
I’m at a crossroads with a gun project and I would appreciate some insight from this crowd. Forgive me for the back story, it’ll just put things into context.
I found a used .22-6mm Improved (40° shoulder) built on a blueprinted 700 long action for sale last year. Spec’d pretty close to how I like a coyote rifle (except for the 1:8 twist); Jewell HRV, Bansner stock, Zeiss scope and 500 rounds of fireforming ammo for $1850. Too good to be true, so I bought it thinking the barrel had to be shot out.
I got it and the 69gr Nosler fireforming loads averaged 3735fps and shot in the .6’s at 100. So I campaigned it last spring and killed coyotes with it.
The barrel is now throwing fliers after getting warm. I’m going to run the rest of the ammo down the tube to have 500 pieces of fireformed brass and send it in for a new barrel.
Therein lies the quandary. I want the standard high performance coyote rifle requirements: ultimate flat trajectory/MPBR, fast delivery, extreme terminal performance, maintain sight picture. All else is tangential.
So a 26” 1:14 twist for 55gr NBT’s over 4250fps seems like the right choice. Keep it fairly heavy and I should spot my hits.
I’m waffling on that decision because this rifle is a long action. All my other hot-rod .22’s are short actions, so there’s one reason to depart from the norm and take advantage of longer bullet capabilities.
I was looking at JLK’s 65gr bullets with a BC of .397, run the ballistics of it at 3900-4000fps and see it’s really impressive. I’ve got a .220 Swift Improved with 1:14, so the .22-6 is just a bit more horsepower than that. But with bigger bullets I can potentially stretch out the increased capabilities of this bigger case.
So I’d like some insight from this crowd. Would you recommend I stick with the old standard and push 55gr NBT’s towards 4300, or do you think there’s validity to a 65gr JLK at >3900fps? This is purely for spring coyote work, denning with dogs.
I did an internet search and was unable to find any reference to a velocity ceiling with JLK bullets. I also don’t know how they perform on coyotes?
The 64gr Berger pushed towards 4000fps seems rational. I’m familiar with its performance on coyotes at 3600fps. I remember reading Blaine Eddy had a 22-284 pushing this bullet to around 4000fps. So given shortcomings of the JLK venture, there’s a back-up bullet.
The second part of the question is best barrel twist? General consensus is to use 1:10 twist for the 65gr bullets. But that’s too fast for smaller bullets (limiting my options), and that fast also makes me wonder if barrel life will suffer worse than if I slowed down to a 1:11 or 1:12? Anyone comments on the best choice for pushing 64-65gr bullets as fast as possible in this chambering?
Lastly, is there a twist that will work for 55-65gr bullets and give me ultimate flexibility? Will a 1:12 or 1:11 still stabilize 55gr NBT’s?
Posts: 97 | From: Nevada | Registered: Jan 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted March 26, 2014 02:10 PM
Interesting crossroads!
Here's my couple pennies.
You've got a BEAST of a cartridge, on a long action no less. Nice long neck to hold onto a nice, long bullet.
Make all of that available powder capacity and action length work for you by pushing a heavy (>65gr) bullet. IMHO, that massive horsepower is lost on a lighter projectile, not enough rubber to meet the road...
Stick with a 1:8 twist, although you could get by with a 1:9 if you stay <80gr bullets. Send your 'smith a fired case to set headspace off, and have him throat it appropriately to get the most from those sleek, heavy bullets!
Traveling down this road with a 22-243imp40, right now. Me & KJ schemed up a build to mess with. Mine is a 1:8" Brux, #4 @ 27". Got 60 cases fire formed and did two quick ladders with a 75Amax. H-1000 is netting mid 3600s with no pressure signs, and KJ is getting mid 3500s pushing 80amaxs with Retumbo in his Brux 1:8". Your 22-6Imp should easily reproduce these numbers, and at a lower pressure. Lower pressure translates to longer barrel life, so you could throttle back your loads and likely enjoy a few hundred extra rounds down the tube...
When you crunch the #s, @ 300yds, the heavies runnin' 36-700 aren't giving up much, if anything, to a 55gr @ 4250. Beyond that, the heavies pay dividends in both drop and drift.
I have a few hundred 75&80gr JLKs to mess with in my 22-243Imp. Emailed Swampy about his opinion on how they'd act on game, but he had nothing to share. So, I guess we're in uncharted territory, lol! KJ has spanked quite a few coyotes with the 80Amax, I'm sure he'll be along to brag them up!
If you'd like to try the 75 or 80 JLKs in your 22-6Imp, I'd be happy to send ya a couple of each...
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted March 26, 2014 03:27 PM
I was shooting the Berger 62s out of my 22x47 Lapua at just over 3800 with a 12 twist and it was awesome. But in usual Berger style they quit the 62 so I bought a couple hundred of the 60 and the 64, but haven't shot them yet. Finishing up the last of the 62s. I'm leaning towards the 64s if they perform well. Regardless of what some of these guys will try to sell you, speed kills, and the flatter trajectory of the lighter bullet to 3 or 4 hundred is what's generally needed for what we do. It is a better system IMHO for most coyote killing. Things change past 400 and I know that, that's why I rarely step beyond.
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Violence may not be the best option....
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WhiteMtnCur
Knows what it's all about
Member # 5
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posted March 26, 2014 04:33 PM
3 Toes brought up a couple pertinent points. This rifle will do 98% of its work inside 400 yards. I’m pretty good to there, not past it. I don’t have interest in long VLD bullets, dialing scopes, or any of that long range stuff. MPBR is first priority and anything under 3800fps and I start to lose interest when it comes to working over the dogs.
So 65gr is the maximum bullet weight I’ll consider, and I’m only considering it because this case has a lot of powder capacity and the rifle has a long action. Couple that to a 65gr JLK at 3900fps and it is only 1” more drop at 400 than the 55gr NBT pushed at 4250.
If, big if, depending on individual barrel, I can get the 65gr JLK to 4000, it ballistically matches the 55gr NBT at 4250.
Maybe my ballistics program sucks and I’m off? But an accurate load [without pressure signs] pushing a 65gr JLK at 4000 would make the faster twist and the long action justified. That possibility is the only reason this rifle doesn’t already have a 1:14 on it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 26, 2014 05:26 PM
Already noted, Cal's rig using the 62Berger gets damned near the exact same velocity as my 22-243Midd, 3810fps. But I have not exhausted my supply. When they are gone, I will use the 64Berger, if I can get it?
Several years ago, I got some .257" 96.5 grain and .224" 65 grain from a friend of Dave Afflack, @ Starke bullets. I had heard he retired but not sure. If he could be persuaded, I bet he could turn out a 62 grain bullet that would duplicate the Berger?
When I was using that bullet until it was no longer available, he sent me some very nice 65 gr. Starke's that worked just as well, (and still does) as the Bergers. He even acted like it was not difficult, so maybe it isn't?
Just a thought.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: PS the twist in the 22-250AI is 14" and the Middlested's is 1X12".
edit: actually, I like to keep my coyote work to around 400 yards, as well. For a few very good reasons.
[ March 26, 2014, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted March 26, 2014 06:03 PM
Since you are prioritizing on MPBR, which I wholeheartedly agree with for your stated application, I think you've already answered your own question.
MPBR is basically all about velocity, velocity and velocity.
The rig I've been using the last couple years is pushing those 55's at 4300 (w/ sub .5 MOA accuracy) and it's laser beam flat, plenty of steam at 400 (and still holding on fur!). It's a 6-284 with a 25" 13 twist. It's the most point and shoot take no prisoners deadly combo I have ever used on coyote. Mine is not too heavy, I do see most of my impacts through the scope.
Blaine brought that .22-284 of his over to my house and tried to give it to me right before he died. I didn't feel right taking it and made him take it with him. Have since regretted that... Last time I ever saw him, too.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted March 26, 2014 06:07 PM
P.S... Clint is totally out of the bullet making business. I'm not sure where all of his dies ended up. I know Chan Nagel got his .17 stuff, but not sure about the rest.
I've got a couple shelves full of his bullets still though. Used to do testing for him on prototype stuff, have all kinds of short run odd balls. Weights and ogives he never went public with, some bonded core stuff he was experimenting with and some REALLY wild stuff that I never had a barrel to work with, like 120 gr. .224's etc.
I think I still have about 500 of his regular 60 gr. .224's.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted March 26, 2014 06:51 PM
Two more things real quick before I forget... You asked specifically about twist for 65's. I have a .243AI and my 6-284 both with 13's and they both shoot 65 Vmax just fine. But a 12 would be good insurance if you want to make sure 65's will be no problem and you should be able to shoot any of the 70's in a 12 too. My 6AI was a 12 and it handled up to 75 Vmax just fine and actually was most accurate with the 80 gr. Sierra.
The other thing I wanted to mention... If you decide to build it for light bullets, make sure your 'smith actually understands that and is both willing and able to throat accordingly. Lots of them do poorly in that area.
The last reamer I ordered from Dave Kiff was a .243AI that I wanted short throated with zero freebore. Spoke to him at length about it. Sent him a couple dummy rounds, the whole nine yards. Reamer came back with about .050 freebore and throated WAY TOO FUCKING long for short bullets.
Okay fine... Talked to the 'smith about it he assured me he had another reamer, it was going to be how I wanted it, blah-blah-blah. Rifle came back 9 months later. Throat was WAY TOO FUCKING long. Not even close to what I had gone to such great pains to try and communicate.
I have since had Greg Tannel do all my work. He does throating and necking as separate operations and KNOWS both WHAT I WANT and WHAT HE IS DOING. The guy speaks my language. My chambers come back from him precisely throated to have the dummy rounds I send him just kissing the lands with exactly the amount of freebore requested (which is usually zero, for me).
Anyway... It's something I have seen get screwed up more often than not on builds like this. People, 'smiths included, hear something like .22/6mm and they just automatically think long bullets and chamber accordingly. If they only have one .22/6mm reamer and it's got the neck and throat built into it as most do, you can bet your ass it's throated for 80's. Far from ideal if you are building for 55's or 65's.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 26, 2014 08:49 PM
Dave, what you are describing is the only negative I have with my 22/243Middlested. Too much freeborn to suit me. But, it's accurate enough the way it is, with the 62gr and more jump than I like.
I have a switch barrel for it chambered in 22-250Ackley that I never screwed on. I hope, when I do, that it's not the same way.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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knockemdown
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posted March 27, 2014 05:41 AM
Not trying to undermine Cal's expertise in killing shit, that ain't gonna happen.
But, humor me & crunch the #s from a .22-6mm Imp.
Take an 80gr JLK (G1 bc of .510) @ 3600 fps
Take a 64gr Berger(G1 bc of .294) @ 3900 fps
@ 300yds, both heavy & light shoot equally flat. However, the 80 JLK allows 3" LESS wind drift in a 10ph full value crosswind
@400yds, the 80 JLK shoots 1" FLATTER, and now allows over 6" LESS wind drift in that same full value wind.
Also, @400 yds, the 80 JLK will retain over 1400 ft/lbs of energy. Whereas, the lighter 64Berger has bled off down to only 900ft/lbs.
Both should still be plenty to drop a coyote like a sack o' taters, but it does kinda knock the edge off the "speed kills" argument. Speed certainly does kill, especially when you've got a friggin' HUGE case that can push a heavy bullet fast enough to matter!!!
Same cartridge, contrasting heavy & light bullets.
Heavy bullet is almost 50% better in the wind, and retains over 30% more energy @ 400yds.
Just looking at those two comparisons alone, provides a pretty strong case for the heavies, in my opinion...
[ March 27, 2014, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
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posted March 27, 2014 05:46 AM
High velocity and High BC. I am a fan.
Have a 243AI with a 12 twist barrel that shoots 55gr NBT at 4150 MV.
Also a 22-243AI 8 twist that shoots 80gr AMAX at 3530.
They both kill well. The 55’s out of the 234AI has a bullet failure from time to time, but not as you might expect.
On about 1 out of every 15 coyotes, on behind the shoulder shots, that bullet will pass clean thru with little to no expansion out of that rifle.
You can find the coyote, but you lose some time looking. Not good.
So far with the 22-23AI and the 80’s there are no issues.
My buddy John from Carlsbad is coming in this weekend to pick up his new 22-243AI. We will be shooting steel and killing a few coyotes all weekend.
Just for shits and giggles, I think I will run both my rifles side by side at 400 yards on steel. I figure the kill shot on a coyote facing you straight on is around 4 ½”.
The wind is going to be 15-25, normal contest conditions around here. I know this really doesn’t prove anything with all the variables, but
will report back with how this works out for me.
On another note, I really think there are too many variables in bullets and barrel twist/barrel throat condition/where the coyotes is hit to really nail down what’s what.
A bullet/twist that performs well on coyotes in one rifle may not be the ticket in another…A buddy of mine and I were shooting 9.25 twist straight 243’s with 55gr NBT’s a few years back. I was having good results, I watched him splash 3 coyotes in a row with his….
Of late I have been carrying a 204AI shooting 50gr Berger’s at 3600 MV (cause I got 600 of them). Was shooting a 38gr Unmussig at 4111 MV when I was selling the hides.
Both kill well out of the 9 twist Pac Nor barrel. Others I have talked to shooting straight 204’s were having a hard time keeping 40gr Berger’s inside a coyote. 40gr Berger’s in my rig did not give the desired penetration. I expect due to the 9 twist verses a 12 twist others are shooting.
Have shot 20 plus coyotes with the 50gr Berger out of this rig and have only had one exit so far. Go figure.
Stay after them
Kelly
edit to add - looks like Fred and were posting at the same time. This is a hell of a good dicussion and I hope to learn something.
[ March 27, 2014, 06:02 AM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted March 27, 2014 06:14 AM
Hey Cal, Is there much difference between your 22x47 Lapua and a 22-250 AI?
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
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posted March 27, 2014 06:19 AM
Fred, I'll take your numbers as gospel. But if you are talking about speed kills, you didn't list anything I'd consider to be "speed". 3900 is pedestrian. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
And none of that stuff is as flat to 400 as a 55NBT at 4300. And, I can assure you, that load knocks a coyotes dick right in the dirt at 400 - even with a gutshot.
Wind... Different story. But also a story I'm not very interested in, for this particular application. It's rare that wind has a genuine problematic effect on my bullet placement in called coyote scenarios. It doesn't even register on my list of concerns when putting together a coyote killing machine. Yeah, I hold into it as needed, but, between the 100K plus rounds I've shot at colony varmints and the fact that I'm not out calling in bad wind anyway, it's just kinda easy? Not a hurdle at all. Can't think of any coyotes I've missed that wind was a real legitimate excuse.
I fully understand that wind makes a helluva difference to somebody else. Especially in Oklahoma! Or Wyoming. And especially at over 300. And extra especially if your not doing it just for fun like I am.
But my called coyotes? Wind cutting is nice, but not nearly as nice as ultra flat trajectory.
Long range, same deal. The heavies rule there. But calling coyotes, it's just not anything I care about. I've only taken a handful of shots over 400 the last couple of years. Killed pretty much all of them. Only took the shots because things were in my favor to do so. I can't think of any long shots I didn't take, that I would have, if I'd been slinging heavies though.
Not trying to convince anyone of anything, just filling in some of the background on my own thought process. Which, for me, my style, my hunting scenarios, the heavies bring nothing to the table for me (and I have worn out barrels shooting them, mind you - I do have "some" experience to go on).
All else being equal on the terminal end (which, I know, often it's not, but the 55NBT at 4300 is a proven killer), after accuracy it's all about the MPBR for me. The MPBR on the heavies, for my purposes, is just not appealing.
Recoil management and maintaining a sight picture are more important to me, than the wind cutting or long range trajectory of the heavies, too, as far as that goes. Not that you can't get there with heavies, but it definitely is easier with light for caliber bullets.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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knockemdown
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posted March 27, 2014 06:38 AM
I hear ya, Dave!
Step the 64Berger up to 4K, and it still ain't making much difference. Least, not enough to raise my eyebrow.
And that's my point. The bigger .224 caliber cases just seem to produce more efficiently when pushing a big boolit.
Take Leonard's .22-243Middie. He's runnin' darn near the same speed as Cal's 22x47L. One would think it safe to assume that the much larger (22-243Middie) case would flat out spank the smaller (22x47L) case. But, with mid-weight bullets, it just don't. For the extra powder burned, there is minimal net gain in velocity.
That's why I feel that, when considering a beast like the .22-6mmImp, 22-243Imp, etc, stepping up to the heavier, higher bc. bullets makes sense. For the simple fact that, the margin of performance is more tangible, when compared to smaller cases. IE, those big fuckers are earnin' their keep when pushin' a big bullet...
Of course, you've taken that in the polar opposite direction in 6mm...going to a light bullet and beyond warp speed. I can certainly see the merit of going that route with your 6-284, as the super flat trajectory is tangible enough to take notice! Wicked, comes to mind...
However, when considering the long action, long necked 22-6mmImp, I just don't see the numbers shaking out to where a lighter bullet can be pushed fast enough to make that same tangible ballistic difference.
In .224 caliber, and from a beast like a .22-6mmImp, the heavies can be pushed fast enough to render the trajectory advantage of a lighter projectile almost inconsequential. And the wind/retained energy advantage of the heavies is substantial enough to warrant serious consideration...
DanS, I'd compare the .22-250AI and 22x47L to be neck & neck in capacity. Benefit going to the 22x47L, with its small primer pocket & higher pressure threshold
edits: cuz my syntax sux this mornin'
[ March 27, 2014, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 27, 2014 08:15 AM
Geeze, there are a lot of data points I could weigh in on here, and I could save myself some typing to just say DITTO to what Dave wrote above.
Light bullets as Kelly indicated, sometimes splash especially running shots and not in the boiler room.
Heavy, long bullets, in my opinion are great for a lot of applications but are they reliable killers, or do they far too often, xip through a coyote, again as Kelly mentioned.
Exactly as Dave said about the advantage in wind; shit, I don't call in wind anyway. And when I go to plan B, (which I won't go into) I break out my 25'06Ackley anyway, so long 22 caliber bullets don't make the team.
Sometimes, the math makes the argument, but where the rubber hits the road, you can't prove it. Even identical barrels can perform differently so using one set of fantastic numbers for MV and downrange, that barrel #2 can't equal the performance. It's just the physics of identical physical properties. In Paris, they are still trying to figure out why that cylinder of platinum keeps losing weight?
Basically, there is a reason why predator hunters don't use a 308. There is a natural reason why 22 and 24 caliber are chosen for some applications and why certain bullet weights are used; since nothing is new, under the sun. Nimrods have been necking down cartridges and loading heavy bullets for a hundred years, and raving about performance. Shouting in the wilderness, while everybody else loads a 22-250AI with a 55Nosler BT and calls it good.
As far as me rolling with 3810fps in a daylight gun, well, that's a result of those pesky NODES. Sometimes you have to choose between pure performance and pure performance, do I go with accuracy or velocity?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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knockemdown
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posted March 27, 2014 09:43 AM
That's easy, Leonard.
If the same cartridge, in this case the 22-6mm Imp, can push a heavier bullet fast enough, to the point where it darn near shoots as flat as a lighter bullet (within 1"@300yds), I go with the one that will cheat the wind better.
And, if that same wind cheatin' bullet will deliver a significant amount more 'whoopazz', I giggle at my good fortune for the bonus that comes along with it!
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Leonard
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Member # 2
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posted March 27, 2014 09:47 AM
Still not getting it, eh?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Leonard
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posted March 27, 2014 10:05 AM
I got an email from one who shall not be named. Asks, <ahem> how many long range coyotes has he killed?
Cal has killed a few, Dave has killed a few, and modesty forbids, but to enhance the point, so have I. Let's call that group A. Then we have the eastern fan representing group B. Now, as to numbers, if this were a popularity contest, who wins?
There may be good valid reasons for an improved 6MM or just get a 6mmX'06, and there could be excellent reasons for long heavy bullets, like banging iron @ 1,000yds. I have always felt that hunting has it's own set of criteria that cannot be reduced to numbers on a chart.
And, that's the thing. Some people drive Fords. We all have choices. I want certain performance and although aware of the advantages of long heavy bullets, they do not impress me to the point where I am tempted to use them on game.
I am using the 105Berger hi bred in my 243Ackley. At no time did it cross my mind that this bullet would make a jim dandy coyote bullet. The application is long range targets. Period.
I love these discussions! You know; nobody's right and nobody's wrong.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted March 27, 2014 10:09 AM
Who...me?
No, I get it.
The .22-250AI pushing a ~55gr is "perfect", I really do.
After all, that's why Randy sold his slow twist .22-243Imp. All that extra powder capacity, and it wasn't living up to its potential with mid-weight bullets. In short, that huge case wasn't paying dividends with a mid weight bullet up front. Which, of course, is another instance of the 'rubber not meeting the road'...
I fully understand, and endorse Randy's decision, it makes perfect sense. Burn less powder, get close to the same performance, with less recoil.
I get it.
But...
That does not change the fact that, the very same .22-243Imp case could be a friggin' MONSTER with a purpose driven 1:8" twist, to spin 70-80gr bullets.
Sure, you're burnin' more powder in the bigger case.
Sure, you'll have a bit more resultant recoil.
But...
the ballistic and terminal advantage becomes evident & not so easily dismissed to 'nimrods'. 'Specially since the advent of .224 caliber, high bc, low bearing surface VLD type bullets in recent years. They change the game, from whence the old guard has crowned their king, and are deserving of more than a cursory dismissal of their benefits.
No matter, really. Just stickin' to my guns, so to speak. The 22-6mm Imp is meant to launch, heavies...and it does so with gusto!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 27, 2014 10:52 AM
Shaw sold that 22-243? I'm surprised, a little.
However, I remember hunting with him in Texas, he started with the newer gun and somewhere along the way, broke out his trusty 22-250Ackley. I just figured he had more confidence in the physical characteristics of that rifle?
My 22-250Ackley weighs 18.5 pounds and is what is called a "truck gun" or a "Nevada Rifle".
Suddenly, I'm curious to know if my switch barrel in 22-250Ackley might be just as good with 55 gr Ballistic Tips? Then I won't be wasting 4.5 grains of powder on every shot.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted March 27, 2014 11:07 AM
Your Input Variables
Ballistic Coefficient .473 Velocity (ft/s) 3530 Weight (grains) 80
Maximum Range (yds) 1000 Interval (yds) 50 Drag Function G1
Sight Height (inches) 2.0 Shooting Angle (degrees) 0 Zero Range (yds) 240
Wind Speed (mph) 10 Wind Angle (degrees) 90 Altitude (ft) 0
Pressure (hg) 29.53 Temperature (F) 59 Humidity (%) 0.78
Ballistics Results
RANGE (YARDS) VELOCITY (FPS) ENERGY (FT.-LB.) TRAJECTORY (IN) COME UP IN MOA COME UP IN MILS WIND DRIFT (IN) WIND DRIFT IN MOA WIND DRIFT IN MILS
Well that didnt work for shit...point is the 80gr Amax with a 240 zero is a point and shoot coyote gun out to 350...they data looked pretty when I pulled it..lol
Muzzle 3530 2213 -2 0 0 0 0 0
50 3415 2071 -0.1 0.1 0 0.2 0.3 0.1
100 3303 1938 1.1 -1.1 -0.3 0.5 0.5 0.1
150 3194 1812 1.5 -1 -0.3 1.2 0.8 0.2
200 3088 1694 1 -0.5 -0.1 2.1 1 0.3
250 2984 1582 -0.4 0.1 0 3.3 1.3 0.4
300 2884 1477 -2.7 0.9 0.3 4.9 1.5 0.4
350 2785 1378 -6.1 1.7 0.5 6.7 1.8 0.5
400 2689 1284 -10.6 2.5 0.7 8.9 2.1 0.6
450 2594 1195 -16.4 3.5 1 11.4 2.4 0.7
500 2502 1112 -23.4 4.5 1.3 14.3 2.7 0.8
550 2411 1033 -31.8 5.5 1.6 17.5 3 0.9
600 2322 958 -41.7 6.6 1.9 21.2 3.4 1
[ March 27, 2014, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted March 27, 2014 11:50 AM
Leonard, it might be. That combo sure seems like a wonderfully efficient pairing, from what Randy mentioned.
Without killing alot of coyotes, stepping up in case capacity has been natural progression. Seen guys running fast twist .22-250AIs & gettin' mid 3300s with 75 gr bullets. That is impressive, in & of itself.
So, I built a .22-243Win. Easy, schmeasy 'nimrod' neck down, and get 3450-3500 with 75gr Amaxs. Reaping ballistic benefits of increased powder capacity...
Then, ,go to Nebraska & see one of Randy's .22-243Imp cases, next to the .22-243Win I brought along. Wonder if too much of a good thing, can still have room to improve?
Turns out, it does. Me & KJ decide to have built .22-243Imp, but with fast twist tubes. KJ has shot prolly 30-40 coyotes already with his, and he might mention about that in more detail. I've killed a miniscule handful with my .22-243Win, and another miniscule handful more when fireforming for the .22-243Imp. They smack the shit outta coyotes, as in flip em backwards off their haunches. And they damn well should! In a 11 lb. rifle, I watched all mine fold up in the scope, recoil is very tolerable...
Certainly lucky to have a guy like KJ with the same rifle/bullet combo to glean good data from. He kills a buttload more coyotes than me, so hearing about how happy he is with it, makes me smile. Vicarious enjoyment, for a geographically challenged hunter.
Its all good, on my end. I'm just excited as heck with this new toy & possibly became a bit overzealous when this thread popped up to brag on such a similar combo. That .22-6mm Imp everything the .22-243Imp is, and then some! Would love to see the OP spin the same tube on and throttle up a big JLK to see what he gets!!!
[ March 27, 2014, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 27, 2014 11:54 AM
Okay, good. How far out is bang/flop? Or how close in?
There is just a hell of a lot of ways to do this stuff. But wait! Maybe I will switch to 80 gr. AMax? Might fit my freebore anyway?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31447 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 27, 2014 12:03 PM
The thing about original posters, (OP) is after everybody argues about all kinds of ancillary shit, the guy will go out and do something we never talked about. Happens every time. And we all feel like we've been pulled out....
Doesn't matter, good to argue this stuff. And, arguing calibers and bullets consumes much ink.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31447 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted March 27, 2014 12:31 PM
Like I said about the 77 gr SMK's, they turn a 223 into a giant killer. Can't imagine a heavier bullet running at the speeds a 22-243ai could get would be any different.
But then we run into the bullets sweet spot. Run it too fast or too slow and we could get different results.
Tomorrow I'm stopping by my cousins range. He runs a 6mmAI and 87 gr Vmax's while I run the 105 Amax in my 243AI. We'll see how thing fair on steel out to 800 but I think both will work.
And that's the deal, both schools of thought work.
Oh and tell the unmentionable one that I hit a coyote with my 17 Remington at 650 yards. Found blood and saw him tip over but he was gone. So what could he know about long range coyotes?
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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