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Author
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Topic: Come on, seriously??
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted January 11, 2014 08:59 PM
In the article called "last word" by Judd Cooney in this month's predator extreme mag, he talks about the power of the new Foxpro that allows the ability to change pitch of various sounds( marketing plug). According to a guy named Big Al, he has found that that some days a high pitched distress sound will work and on the next day, a low pitched sound seems to be more effective.
Not sure if I'm buying this..
I believe that a particular sound track can be more effective ( cadence , rhythm , emotion) than another to bring in coyotes in general; however, does a particular coyote get selective on a day to day basis?
That's like a coyote thinking to himself, boy , I'm sick of bird, if only it was a jack rabbit , I'd be there in a heartbeat!
What do you guys think?
[ January 11, 2014, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted January 12, 2014 05:33 AM
some days, certain sounds do (seem) to sound better then on others.
not sure but i think its due to the humidity in the air ?.
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 12, 2014 08:44 AM
I'm skeptical.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted January 12, 2014 10:44 AM
Why not apply the same marketing techniques to hunters as they do with fisherman. Remember the helicopter lure?
My favorite is with the scentlock clothing or the spray to mask or cover your scent. Next, they will come up with the magical sound ONLY canines can hear. Kind of like the kings invisible clothes.
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Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 12, 2014 11:24 AM
You got the right idea.
Here's my half baked theory. Coyotes can change the way they respond from one hour to the next. Five miles from here, they respond differently...and who knows why?
To think you can change things by twerking the sound is wishful thinking. If Big Al is who I think it is, I'm surprised he is thinking along those lines?
There are some gdamned mysteries that we will never figure out. And, trying to categorize coyote responses in generalities is a waste of time. They are talking about different coyotes on different days that like an ever so slightly different pitch than yesterday's coyotes?
That sounds like total bullshit, to me. When there are so many other factors that influence coyote behavior that we can't change.
Like, weather fronts, the barometer drops or rises, the moon is rising, the moon is falling, it's gonna rain, it's gonna snow, it's gonna stop snowing, the wind is blowing from the northeast, the wind is coming up from the south, traffic is light, it's the weekend and traffic is heavy. I'm exhausted, I can't list every factor that influences coyote behavior and there are many I haven't thought of, yet.
But, to scratch your ass and decide the frequency is slightly higher pitched, that requires a leap of faith I don't have.
Which is not to say that some pitch might be more effective than another, but to decide that it changes the favorability on a day to day basis is caca.
There are things that happen, on a hunt of which I have great expectations, but, "sometimes, (as the man once said) this shit don't work."
Experience counts for something. It's nice to expect certain things because of certain things, but we should consider THE WHOLE ENCHILADA, not a slight frequency modification. It's like the old joke about cutting off one leg at a time on the frog, and subjecting him to a loud noise, whereupon, he jumps. Then two legs and then three. Until they cut off every leg and use the same loud noise, but he doesn't jump, for some reason? Scientific conclusion: cutting off all four legs causes the frog to go deaf.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: I will never forget one time, in prime country we couldn't buy a coyote, all day and part of the next. Then, after using all kinds of different sounds and vocals, I started using an injured baby javelina. Good things suddenly started happening. Do I believe that sound was the key? Yeah, I do. But it could have just been their time to start running? It happens. For no discernible reason, the hunting gets better or it slows down. If you think your sound is the only thing going on in a coyote's life, I feel sorry for you.
[ January 12, 2014, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted January 12, 2014 01:02 PM
Amen..
I like technology, but I'm glad I bought the simpler CS24B.
I'm an engineer, if there's a knob, I will want to twist the damn thing..
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted January 12, 2014 05:31 PM
I believe pitch makes a difference (just as all the other factors mentioned so far). Many times I've had coyotes hang up but still stick around. After trying several different sounds occassionally I'll pick one that brings them on in. We all play the game of "What sound is working today". They call it "Feed the Hot Hand" in basketball.
No seriously, I believe that some days high pitch sounds work better than low pitch. Some days the lower tones bork better. Sometimes it seems electronics don't work and hand calling does. To me it's no different than the up-wind/down-wind debate or using scents. It's all nothing more than a rabbit's foot. I can't prove they work and you can't prove they don't work.
The one thing that is true, however, is that the more successful callers are the ones with confidence in their abilities and their willingness to tweak and stretch the basics of proven fundamentals.
So yeah... I own high pitch calls, low pitch calls and everything in between.
Having said that I do tend to pay attention to the humidity when determing whether to use high vs low pitches.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
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posted January 12, 2014 05:44 PM
Jay. interesting.
i have not put 2 n 2 together about the humidity thing but i think its a valid point.
ever notice some days, you can hear cars 2 miles away upwind and the next time out, same conditions other them the humidity you can't hear a car 200 yards away?
i hunt high traffic areas and have noticed those things and the only thing that comes to mind is:humidity.
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted January 12, 2014 08:24 PM
There's many times when you swear you can hear cardoors shut, music, people talking and your partner shifting positions from 30 yards away as well.
My unscientific thoughts are that humidity is thicker air and since lower tones have longer sound waves, the sound pierces the thick air easier than higher tone shorter waves ergo the sound reaches out farther.
I always found it odd that a low ducky sounding Tally-Ho can call bobcats just as well as the higher pitched calls the experts say are needed when for calling cats. Shoots the hell out of my high-pitch / low-pitch theory but the caveat is that if I start seeing results with a certain pitch (high or low) I am sticking with it.
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted January 13, 2014 08:12 AM
That will be Foxpro's next "new" feature in ecallers..
A automatic pitch adjuster.. It will have a onboard humidity sensor and based on the "humidity" value, it will have a look up table and adjust the pitch accordingly to suck the coyotes right in..
[ January 13, 2014, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted January 13, 2014 08:28 AM
I not a Judd Cooney/PE fan, but I do agree with Jay.
I agree that pitch makes a difference on certain days, so can cadence, inflection, timing etc. Just my opinion, but, it just seems that as some days progress, you begin to notice a definite preference.
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jay Nistetter
Legalize Weed, Free the Dixie Chicks
Member # 140
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posted January 13, 2014 09:06 AM
FP Features: Actually I'd prefer a fur recognition scan feature that tells you current market values and whether it's worth skinning plus the location of nearest trapper that would do the work and split the proceeds.
Maybe a bigger remote screen with WiFi so I can text and see what's happening on FB too!
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Understanding the coyote is not as important as knowing where they are.
I usually let the fur prime up before I leave 'em lay.
Posts: 1006 | From: Arizona | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 13, 2014 10:58 AM
Uncle Jay is wow!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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tawnoper
Knows what it's all about
Member # 497
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posted January 14, 2014 09:04 AM
sell, sell, sell! Gotta keep coming up with new shit to sell.
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted January 14, 2014 10:27 AM
Coyote's actually are sensitive to pitch of the screams at times. I find it fairly easy to switch from low pitch to high pitch, or somewhere in between by simply blowing a different location on the reed. This only works with open reed calls though. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted January 14, 2014 11:20 AM
or a Weems Dual Tone.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7577 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
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posted January 14, 2014 11:43 AM
Or a diaphragm....Hands free and freeze proof too. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 15, 2014 12:32 PM
Whatever, rated a phone call from Uncle Jay, this morning! All because he was listening to some redneck station on the radio and they played the Dixie Chicks. I thought they were still boycotted, but okay? He is inordinately proud of his custom title.
He's into Texas hunt contests these days. Who knew? And with a blast from the past, Larry Wilson, whom I have not seen since the Shadetree party at Bruce's house in 1999. If you remember Larry, you are an old fart, for sure!
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: oh, and I finally read that article on the back page of Predator Extreme. Whatever.
[ January 15, 2014, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bofire
READ MY LIPS!
Member # 221
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posted January 16, 2014 05:19 PM
"I find I catch more fish on a falling barometer".. "How do you tie a falling barometer"?
Gimmicks.
Carl
Posts: 322 | From: Wild West | Registered: Jul 2003
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted January 25, 2014 08:48 PM
I read the article and was surprised too. I am a Judd Cooney fan. I used to love reading his stuff in F F G every month before the current days of "Coyote Prostitution". He doesn't seem the "sell-out" kind of guy and it just seemed weird. Who knows though? Maybe he is given a little dinero to promote gimmicks?
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted January 25, 2014 10:42 PM
I agree with tawnoper on this one. I quit taking Predator Xtreme because of the silly articles on calling. Until some genius finds out how to read their minds no one can tell what they think or why they do what they do. PX has to fill up their pages each month and most of what I've read there is drivel. But that's my opinion.
To their credit, Foxpro has striven to give callers what they're asking for. I think they gave them all they ever really needed with the old FX416B but apparently that's not how the business works. I know guys who own several different models of Foxpros because the newest one was sure to make them a lot better caller because it has more bells and whistles. And remember, Al Morris works for Foxpro.
When I started calling,a long, long time ago, I owned one call that cost me $3. I bought a bag of replacement reeds and blew the same sounds out of that call for better than 11 years. It worked pretty good, too. I'll admit with the electronic caller there are sounds that seem to work better one day over another but is it because there were no coyotes in hearing range at the blank stands or is it because they didn't like what they were hearing?
Anyone who has done any serious calling can tell you that you can go into an area and call it until your face turns blue and nothing responds. You go back a week or two later and you get a response on every stand. Coyotes travel and that is a fact.
I can't understand why people try to over think something as simple as calling predators. Learn the basics and stick to it. And don't lose sight of the fact that you're out there to have a good time.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted January 29, 2014 05:46 AM
Good advise on keeping it simple Moe.
I use both hand calls and ecaller (mostly). Without a doubt , the ecaller gives me an advantage on shotgun stands in the thick stuff. It separates me for the sound source. They run in within shotgun range and I nail'em.
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted January 29, 2014 07:00 AM
Man, I feel badly for you guys who have to bury yourself into a bush, or perch up atop a ladder to catch a fleeting glimpse of coyote fur!
Have always likened predator calling as being a rifleman's game, and think that is a major reason why calling holds so much appreal to me.
If my calling terrain dictated having to use a shotgun for pass shooting in thick cover, I'd be pissed. More power to the shotgunners here, just glad it ain't me stuck calling coyotes through that tight shit!
[ January 29, 2014, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 29, 2014 07:34 AM
Me too Fred. I have probably a million acres of thick stuff full of coyotes I could hunt if I wanted to. But I'll drive past hundreds in the thick stuff just to get to dozens in the more open country. Just more fun for me and as was mentioned earlier, for most of us, fun is really all that matters.
The backlash against new products and trying to sell as many of them as possible always puzzles me though. Sell-sell-sell is the American Fucking Way. If we don't create and sell, then what? Sit around and wait for a check from Obama? Or what?
Seriously, just have never understood the attitude that there is something wrong with people (companies) getting up off their asses and making new shit soley for the purpose of selling that shit and making money. It's called Capitalism. Personally, I'm all for it.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 29, 2014 08:14 AM
Dave, I understand the theory, and agree for the most part.
Item #1. My truck is eight years old and I have no plans to trade it, yet.
#2, I can't be buying a new $800 ecaller every year, can't justify it, no matter how great the new TX1000 is. It's just too damned bad we can't upgrade or retool existing stuff without buying the Full Monty Capitalist New Model every fucking year.
I wear a wrist watch that is titanium and is about ten years old, still does what it's supposed to do. I don't need a new one every year. In fact, I have three I don't wear.
And, it's getting that way with game callers. Anybody want to buy a couple perfectly good Minaska's?
I probably need an attitude adjustment? Help me out!
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: PS I don't like hunting the thick shit either!
[ January 29, 2014, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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