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Author
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Topic: Bobcat vs. coyote on stand..
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted November 26, 2013 08:25 PM
How competitive are bobcats with coyotes on a stand?
I'm in areas that have both, and it seems coyotes always beat bobcats to the call..
Will bobcats come in after seeing coyotes in the area? Or are they completely submissive and leave an area when coyotes arrive?
Thx.
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted November 26, 2013 08:47 PM
From what I've observed, bobcats think that they're invisible. Given ANY reason to, they will hunker down next to a bush and actually BE invisible. I suspect that we call in a lot more bobcats than we know about.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Eddie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4324
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posted November 26, 2013 09:04 PM
Last year I called in two doubles (cat and coyote) first one the coyote came in first. The second one the cat came in first.
The coyote came I shot it, turn to my left and here comes a cat with out a care in the world turn and shot it.
The stand that the cat came in first, it came in around 3min. mark I shot it and left the call running. About 10min. later a coyote came in on the same trail the cat had used. I shot it about 10yards from where the cat was laying.
Last year I was calling coons, I was going back and forth between a coon fight and a young coon dist. Was around 4min. into the stand when I look over and there set a big tom just look at the call. If you can call a cat to a coon fight I don't think a coyote is going to bother them.
Posts: 275 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Feb 2013
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 26, 2013 09:48 PM
It's like koko said. Cats are only vaguely concerned about coyotes. It's not that a pair of coyotes would not be a serious challenge for a cat, but they know they can exit and climb, or work into a spot that discourages attack.
A bobcat just doesn't appear to be worried about a coyote. I never even saw one get mildly upset when they meet a coyote. I don't know who would win a fair fight, but I don't think a coyote is very interested in an actual physical fight; he's going to get ripped pretty good, even if the coyote manages to get him by the neck.
As far as any conflict I don't think either of them would run away. At least, I never saw it? You know, it's possible these animals interact frequently and know each other pretty well. What we see occasionally, on stand might seem like a big deal, but they think it's all in a day's work?
All I know is, a bobcat has more confidence than any animal I am familiar with. Maybe lions are the same, I haven't even seen a lion in more than three years, so I can't have an informed opinion, even though I have killed a couple. At night.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted November 27, 2013 04:14 AM
Appreciate the feedback..
I think I'll start to continue the stand even if I dump a coyote at the 7 to 8 minute mark.
Fur prices are so high now, trying to maximize my chances.
Right koko, I believe we call in bobcats much more than we expect. I try and carefully scan each bush after a calling session, just to check if some big eyes are looking at me.
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted November 27, 2013 06:00 AM
There is video out there showing cats and coyotes on the same stand, and video of a cat and a coyote facing off on the same stand and both dying with-in a few feet of each other. Other video of cats showing up on stand during a period of coyote howling being used to call.
Then again, I've witnessed, and a buddy of mine has witnessed, cats running off when a pair of coyotes showed up on stand, so maybe the cats aren't afraid of a single coyote, but feel out numbered when 2 or more coyotes are together.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted November 27, 2013 06:13 AM
I have called a coyote and a bobcat on the same stand using the Tally-Ho and distress sounds. I knew the coyote was coming, but not the cat until it just appeared at 15 yards away at my 9:00…I forgot about the coyote and shot the cat. It was my first cat, and I guess it was just dumb luck of being at the right place at the right time with the right sound.
Last Saturday morning, I took a newbie out for the first time. We called a creek area that just looked like it might hold some cats. For some reason, I couldn’t get my e-caller off mute, and had to resort to mouth calls…I had the Tally Ho on my string and started with distress sounds. The guy I was with said after about 5 minutes a cat appeared on the creek bank about 150 yards from me. (He was set up behind me and slightly higher on the side of a hill about 50 yards away) I could not see what he saw as I had a slight rise in front and to my right that concealed the cat.
For some reason, then I pulled a dumb ass thing…I followed up a distress sequence with a juvenile coyote howl . He said as soon as I howled, the cat came to an abrupt stop, did a 180, and disappeared over the creek bank.
I will not make that mistake again.
Obviously they co-exist, as I have called both coyotes and cats at some of my spots individually, but only once where both came in.
I agree with Koko on cats not only thinking they are invisible, but can be damn near invisible—it just seems like they just appear. I am not an expert by any means, but if I am alone, I will just use an e-caller in a cat area and keep my head on a slow swivel trying to catch movement.
[ November 27, 2013, 06:19 AM: Message edited by: booger ]
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted November 27, 2013 08:03 AM
Coyotes howl all the time and if there are any cats around they should be used to it by now. I'm sure there may be some cats that had a run in with a coyote or two and may act differently when they hear a howl close by. As for the rest keep your eye's open.. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5063 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted November 27, 2013 08:09 AM
Furry-Dirt;
Take this for what it's worth & bear in mind that I'm calling not all that far from you.
If a coyote comes in and I drop it I will reset the clock and continue calling AS LONG AS I CAN SEE THE BODY OF THE `DEAD` COYOTE AND WATCH FOR ANY SIGN OF RECOVERY.
You will be surprised and amazed at how often another coyote will come in. I seem to get a couple of doubles that way every year. Two years ago I shotgunned one at 30 yards at the 3 minute mark. At the 9 minute mark another came in on the same trail and was dropped on top of the first one.
I was still grinning like the village idiot an hour later after that one.
Don't know if they think it's thunder or sonic booms or what but I do know that if you aren't seen as the cause of the blast, you've got a good thing going.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 27, 2013 09:12 AM
quote:
Then again, I've witnessed, and a buddy of mine has witnessed, cats running off when a pair of coyotes showed up on stand, so maybe the cats aren't afraid of a single coyote, but feel out numbered when 2 or more coyotes are together.
My take on this is: It's not fear that causes a cat to exit like that. But, what's he going to do? He sees the coyotes and understands that whatever is making the distress sounds, THEY, not he, is going to eat it. So, he may as well go lay down somewhere else. Just as many cats will stay put and just observe, and many of them, you won't see. Just like, many coyotes you won't see either. We call in (easily) twice as many animals as we actually see.
As far as detecting them, it has to do with a smart set up and whether you are calling farmland or open prairies. Many parts of Arizona, for instance has very heavy brush and you could be calling in three or four times as many animals as you see. If you can't see directly downwind, you will never know?
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: remember this: a bobcat will never bother to circle downwind. If he's downwind, it is accidental and even if he picks up your scent, it doesn't affect him, he will still come in; if he has a mind?
[ November 27, 2013, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted November 27, 2013 10:36 AM
quote:
edit: remember this: a bobcat will never bother to circle downwind. If he's downwind, it is accidental and even if he picks up your scent, it doesn't affect him, he will still come in; if he has a mind?
That has been my experience the past couple of years. Just like your experience with the ‘end of the muzzle’ coyote, slow movements don’t seem to bother a cat much. However, out of the ordinary, sudden movement will send them packing quickly.
I don’t have as much experience as some here, but have called a fair amount of cats the last two years. Unfortunately, I have not put any of them in the back of the pickup due to my own stupid mistakes. Catching the east end of a west bound cat after I swiveled my head too quick, or moving my hand to wipe a drop of snot off my nose are two blunders that come to mind off the top of my head. Both were downwind when I made my mistakes and were coming my way.
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted November 27, 2013 01:28 PM
I called a bobcat and a coyote at the same time several years ago. They met somehow on the way in. I was set up overlooking a wash and saw the coyote first on the opposite slope. When I put the crosshairs on him, I noticed something else out of place in my FOV. The cat and coyote were both stopped, facing each other about 10 feet apart. I don't see many cats, so my adrenaline level immediately went off the chart. Watched for a few seconds, neither was giving an inch or coming closer. I couldn't take it any longer and was worried the cat would leave and took an uber jittery shot. The cat jumped and trotted a little ways away from the coyote and stopped for me again. Same result on the second shot. Wasn't afforded a third opportunity. Coyote split at the first report.
I suspect that I call several a year just because of where I hunt. Don't know if I'm not patient enough, or not observant enough, but some years I don't see any, and haven't killed one since '11. There are those who give me mucho grief over this anomaly.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 27, 2013 02:38 PM
Yeah, Jimbo. You gotta start getting out of town.
But, seriously, these things either come in bunches or extensive drought. I have killed three cats on a single stand twice and gone all year without seeing one.
Same thing with coyotes, you know? Sometimes, all singles, sometimes nothing but pairs, or nothing but males. And, I don't mean 2 or 3. I mean, kill 12 all day long and they are all males. Don't seem right, but I'll take it.
You have a daytime lion, that's a serious credential, right there.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted November 27, 2013 04:44 PM
That lion was like a winning lottery ticket, pure luck. I kill plenty of coyotes every year, although this year is off to a less than stellar start. Bobcats are my weak spot. There are guys who I don't think could carry my stool to and from a stand that make out better with cats than I do. It's a pretty gaping hole in my game. I appreciate the encouragement, though.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted November 27, 2013 06:44 PM
Koko, great advice on staying on stand..
Here's what I do:
1. Find thick bobcat country (shotgun stands only)
2. Use bird or high pitch cottontail via ecaller
3. Use a decoy for bobcats only
4. Don't freakin move
5. Call for 20 to 30 minutes
I've been fortunate to call in 4 cats so far this year...but I have also called in 50 coyotes! Trying to figure why I didn't call a few more..
I bet I just don't pick them up with the eyes..
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted November 27, 2013 08:29 PM
Sounds to me like you have a damn good area and are doing fine.
Drive on!!!
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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tawnoper
Knows what it's all about
Member # 497
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posted December 03, 2013 04:08 PM
As already said, with bobcats most of the time seeing them is the biggest problem. If you are in an area that has both chances are pretty good to call in both on the same stand. At night it's pretty common to call in each on a stand...mainly cause you see every set of eyes within a couple hundred yards. We've got multiples a number of times at night.
Here's a stand we did a few years back. I was calling and my buddy was sitting 20 yards behind me. After calling one or two series I see a coyote come running past me to my right. As I was lining up on it my buddy shoots, at something else. I manage to put a bullet in the now running coyote. I keep calling. As I'm about to end our stand I see something creeping in about a hundred yards out. Get it my scope and it's a bobcat. Boom. I end the stand and my buddy tells me he shot a cat as well.
[ December 03, 2013, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: tawnoper ]
Posts: 53 | From: socal | Registered: Jan 2005
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KaBloomR
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4252
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posted December 03, 2013 04:59 PM
Nice pic, tawnoper. I had to zoom it in a little, though. At first glance it looked like you had a set of rotor blades strapped onto your back. Aerial Gunner! Yeah!!!
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