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Author
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Topic: Lets talk bobcats...
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CatTracker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3526
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posted January 25, 2011 05:02 PM
Just curious, what have your experiences been regarding cat size and the way they approach the call? I have noticed in my area the bigger cats don't seem as cautious when approaching the call as the smaller ones. Do you suppose when a cat reaches a certain size they are less intimidated by coyotes and other predators and therefore it's a first come first serve type a deal? Or, do you think the breeding season changes their behavior? Or, is there no correlation at all and more a personality trait? Just trying to stir up some good discussion here not a pissing match. Although, some good entertainment is always welcome...
[ January 25, 2011, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: CatTracker ]
Posts: 38 | From: NM | Registered: Nov 2009
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Q-Wagoner
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posted January 25, 2011 08:50 PM
Two of the biggest cats I have shot, "one in Texas and one in Nebraska" loped in like a coyote. On the other hand I have had som big ones walk in as well. Two of the biggest cats I saw Randy shoot were very hesitant to come in.
I think it all really depends on the cat and the situation. Thinking about it we have had cats show up around the one minute mark that are not particulary big. It does stand to reason that a large adult Tom would be a more agressive responder. That coupled with the fact that big Toms will kill kittens may statistically show that younger, smaller cats will aproach more cautiously. That being said I really haven't picked up on any patters as to what size of cat responds faster or slower other than a few stand outs that I listed.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
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posted January 25, 2011 09:55 PM
There is nothing there to build a trend. Cats are nothing, if not individuals.
I can't even say that I think big ones all come in more confident, if you define confident by the swiftness of their approach? On the other hand, even timid appearing cats are confident, to a degree.
Coyotes are jumpy, nervous, cautious, scared and intimidated based on the pecking order. Not cats. However they may come in to a distress is because of how convinced they are, not how big they are.
I'm just expressing my personal opinion, I could be totally full of shit, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 26, 2011 05:12 AM
Saw a small blurb in a recent issue of some science magazine that explained the reasons for canines being, as a rule, smarter than felines due to the fact that canines maintain a social structure within their family unit or pack whereas cats do not. They cited the need for a higher level of intel to do this. Could the timidness and inclination to be more easily intimidated be a matter of this social tendency and relative intelligence moreso than simply being confident, and that this applies to cats, too? In other words, could it be that coyotes are simply smarter and we're mistaking confidence in cats for plain old ignorance?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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furhvstr
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1389
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posted January 26, 2011 05:13 AM
Cats are cats. Very few constants. Like LB said they are individuals.
With respect to calling them in, out of 4-5 hundred night and day hunted cats I have never, ever, called a kitten (6-7 month) to the call (that I was aware of) and only a few yearlings.
In the same country I have caught plenty of young cats in the cages.
Cats have more of a self preservation instict then they are credited for sometimes.
My tooo cents!
ML
[ January 26, 2011, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: furhvstr ]
Posts: 144 | From: California | Registered: Apr 2007
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CatTracker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3526
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posted January 26, 2011 07:16 AM
I think I read somewhere that bobcats can live up to 15 years in the wild (up to 30 in captivity) whereas coyotes are old at 7-10 years. You'd think that if an animal can survive up to 15 years in the wild, it would have some degree of intelligence, especially if they are coexisting and competing with coyotes & mountain lions? Recently I've seen two large bobcats from two different areas charge in like coyotes in broad daylight across open terrain, seemingly fearless & reckless, go figure? Another thought... do you think bobcats have a higher probability to prolificate and survive in an area with lower coyote numbers assuming a good prey base? In other words, is there a benefit to all those weekend warriors thinning out the coyote numbers?
By the way ML, I just ordered your $$$catDVD...looking forward to it!
[ January 26, 2011, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: CatTracker ]
Posts: 38 | From: NM | Registered: Nov 2009
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Leonard
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posted January 26, 2011 09:28 AM
quote:
In other words, could it be that coyotes are simply smarter and we're mistaking confidence in cats for plain old ignorance?
Lance, that is the conventional theory. I think we can all agree that coyotes as a rule, are pretty smart critters.
What I should have said above, is don't judge cats with a coyote yardstick.
I'm swimming upstream, but I give bobcats a little more credit. Nobody knows why a coyote will turn tail and run and hide at a whiff of human scent, whereas a cat will hold his ground and decide what he is going to do without showing fear.
If you attribute the above two actions to superior intelligence, that's great. I see it as simply behavior characteristics. Both coyotes and bobcats are curious animals. Coyotes do not comprehend firearms, but they take no chances. Bobcats don't understand firearms either, but they have no reason to suspect danger, and that's an unfortunate weakness. My suggestion is that we shouldn't assume behavior traits are caused by intelligence or lack thereof. A bobcat is pretty sure that he can kick your puny ass. A coyote wouldn't even consider it.
Good hunting. LB
edit: Mercer, more than a few years ago on a rainy night, we killed what turned out to be a very small kitten, but it was one of those things where it was a long ways and you lose perspective, although I knew it wasn't a housecat. I don't know how much we called him or if he was just lost, but this was a really small cat, maybe about the size of a small feral cat.
[ January 26, 2011, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 26, 2011 09:51 AM
cattracker, it is not common, but after you have done it enough, you will see cats that come to the call every bit as fast as a coyote. In every case, you automatically make the assumption that it's a coyote, until you get a good look at him. I don't know if it is one out of ten, or what, but it is not actually that rare for a cat to come in, in a hurry. The main difference though; a coyote is going to leave just as fast as he ran in but the cat will stand there, sort of defiant, in my opinion, while Lance will say stupid.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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CrossJ
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posted January 26, 2011 09:56 AM
quote:
Cats are cats. Very few constants. Like LB said they are individuals.
quote:
... don't judge cats with a coyote yardstick.
To me, these two comments sum up calling cats better than any other I have heard.
I would wager that good habitat with a diminished coyote population would encourage better cat numbers. To me, bobcats make lousy mothers. The survivability of their offspring within the first year is pretty poor. I would think lowering any potential danger (ie coyotes) would potentially help the cat population.
Mercer, I have called in two kittens to the call that I can think of. In both cases they followed a mature female in, but layed back at the edge of cover. Our population densities may be a factor here. Our cats quality is poor compaired to yours, but we do have plenty of them.
My guess is the cats 'hiding' reaction is due to their primary survival instinct, which is seclusion. Even when a cat does bolt and run, it usually makes it to better cover, and will then give the old squat down and watch or slink away. A coyote on the other hand is built to cover alot of ground in a short period of time(seen this many times lol).
Maintain
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted January 26, 2011 11:31 AM
Alright, Leonard, I'll agree that defiant is a better term. Just used stupid as a way of labeling a set of behaviors. I still say, and you appear to agree, that the coyote is smarter if for no othe reason than that he knows when and, better yet, when not to show his defiance to someone or something superior to him.
Then again, cats have the armaments to back up their attitudes. The only thing nature and evolution didn't give them were teeh in their assholes, and I'm pretty sure if they had any say in the matter, their ass would eat you alive, too. LOL
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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32below
Knows what it's all about
Member # 2075
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posted January 26, 2011 05:40 PM
One thing is for sure and for certain, women and cats will do as they darned well please. Best get used to the idea.
Posts: 100 | From: SW Kansas | Registered: Nov 2007
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