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Author
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Topic: Town hounds VS Wilderness dogs?
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furhvstr
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1389
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posted September 23, 2010 06:17 AM
I have always found it easier to call (distress sounds) in and kill town hounds as oppossed to coyotes out in the woods. Accustomed to vehicles and people I can get a little sloppy with technique and still have success. Even calling them to within killing distance of the truck from the truck at times (daylight)
I was surprised when I ran into a couple of noted coyote masters over in AZ this past weekend that felt just the opposite. Coyotes are easier to call in the wilderness.
Not real experienced at calling coyotes abroad like most of you so I thought I would ask.
Easier when you can smell the bacon cooking thru the back windows of rural communities or with just the aroma of sage and juniper floating in the air?
[ September 23, 2010, 06:18 AM: Message edited by: furhvstr ]
Posts: 144 | From: California | Registered: Apr 2007
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted September 23, 2010 07:19 AM
Never dealt with coyotes around urban areas but the red fox complaints i have had they seem to come to a call fairly easy in town.
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted September 23, 2010 08:53 AM
Can't beat 'em, join 'em...
- DAA
[ September 23, 2010, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: DAA ]
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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RagnCajn
ADDS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Member # 879
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posted September 23, 2010 10:27 AM
Be carefull calling around those suburban areas. I heard from a reliable source, if you call them in and don't kill them, dire consequences can be had. The coyote may begin killing children.
[ September 23, 2010, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
[ September 23, 2010, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: RagnCajn ]
Posts: 362 | From: Shreveport LA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted September 23, 2010 10:35 AM
[ September 45, 2015, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
I thought we had a deal? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ September 23, 2010, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Dan Carey ]
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted September 23, 2010 11:47 AM
In my experience, Red Fox come to the call really well in areas that don't contain many coyote. Anywhere there are coyotes (even in town) they are more skittish. Every time I've found Red Fox that were living without the immediate presence of coyotes: they were as foolish & aggressive as any West Texas gray fox.
On the fringes of small towns, such as industrial parks or recreational parks, I see coyotes behaving fairly comfortably around the calls. I'd venture to say they are easier to kill than the typical rural or deep woods coyote, at least here in the Midwest.
I regularly hunt alongside a few quarries, motocross tracks, sports fields and other areas of persistent human presence and non-hunting pressure. Pending the ebb & flow of coyote populations in those areas, they can be very productive with less effort than deep woods stands. My theory on stand selection in those situations is very simple, find the quiet area and call FROM that point with minimal advertisement about how you got there. Resident coyotes won’t think twice about heading TOWARD those quiet zones. Works every time, about 30% of the time.
With what limited experience I have calling true inner-city coyotes (in no-gun zones) they seem to be much less MOTIVATED to approach the same type of sounds. Coyotes mousing in plain sight often ignore a call or somehow think better of approaching it. In these circumstances, I'm talking about coyotes that live in a 1/4 acre weed patch behind the dumpsters at a hospital or on an overgrown spoil pile at a construction site.
I am fortunate to have a good friend in the "Inner City ADC" business that has given me some insight on the behavior of those coyotes. I won’t pretend to understand the finer details of calling true city coyotes... but I think it's amazing how "SMALL" their world is. When I look at calling a coyote in typical Midwestern country, I consider which fencerow or drainage ditch would be most suitable cover for his approach. I suspect that calling inner-city coyotes within their comfort zones is much more microscopic, given the narrow travel corridors and shrunken comfort zones. Pure speculation.
[ September 23, 2010, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 23, 2010 12:19 PM
Okay, I am amused. By how clever you boys can be. However. There are some that may not be able to separate the pepper from the flyshit.
this is an example of how a genuine edit should look....by anyone.
[ September 23, 2010, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted September 23, 2010 12:31 PM
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
- DAA (can't separate the pepper...)
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted September 23, 2010 12:36 PM
.
[ September 23, 2010, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 23, 2010 12:59 PM
Don't panic, Dave!
These guys are taking a little liberty with me and my oft stated position that I don't edit or delete posts. Unless pushed to the absolute breaking point, I refuse to alter a post and don't like to see anybody else do it, unless correcting their spelling before the Spellin Police see it. Deleting is specifically frowned on.
Apparently, it is an policy that begs for being poked ...at? An Internet rarity, you might say?
Good hunting. LB
PS now, where is this Desert Hunter site I'm hearing about?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted September 23, 2010 01:16 PM
quote:
I ran into a couple of noted coyote masters over in AZ
furhvstr, thank you for the promotion. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
As I stated to you and everyone else that asks that question (more and more frequently) a coyotes zipcode has little influence on that coyotes response to calls, recent experiences most certainly do.
Coyotes in remote areas that are subjected to very little pressure often approach the caller with enthusiasm, coyotes in urban areas that get pounded seldom do.
Security levels determine a coyotes response.
Pressure determines the security levels...... regardless whether they are urban , suburban or remote.
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furhvstr
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1389
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posted September 23, 2010 02:32 PM
I would have liked to talk with you more about it Rich at Strawberry.
Sounds like it boils down to calling pressure. Maybe I don't have much where I hunt around town. The dogs come in fighting one another to be first. Many more multiples around town than out in the hills for me.
And for the record "noted coyote masters" was a sincere compliment. You know more about yotes than anyone should be allowed.
ML
Posts: 144 | From: California | Registered: Apr 2007
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted September 23, 2010 02:32 PM
Great post rich. Yes I know a guy that goes to cali with his bees every winter from here SD, and he take the FP caller and can all in coyotes amongst field workers to a few 100 yards. They don't fear people there because they get no pressure and also repetitive behavuor tells them that the sound of man can mean a meal for them. Would be far different if they started unloading the AR's on them upon approach.
Another thing I see here is most don;t carry guns in their tractors the coyotes will be more at ease at the site and sound of a tractor than a pickup truck, again as stated all about the pressure placed upon them in that envrioment.
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted September 23, 2010 04:46 PM
Never having called to urban coyotes, I can only speak to what I interpret you to mean by townie coyotes as being those within a short distance of town or in areas where houses and people are relatively closely spaced, as opposed to wilderness coyotes being those in remote areas, whether open rangeland or in the backwoods of the Rockies. Those, both, I've called.
Townies, by my definition, are more difficult because they usually have more experience with people and rarely is any of it positive. From about this week forward, any coyote in plain view will be chased or shot at. Dumb ones don't last long.
In the more rural and remote areas where I've hunted, those coyotes seem to respond eagerly even later into the season, with the only appreciable variable between the two being the amount of previous contact they've had with people. Even in mid-December, there are coyotes running in those remote areas who likely have never been in contact with humans.
A perfect example of how their behavior appears to differ would be how the Nebraska sandhills coyotes approach quickly and by the most direct route whereas, in that same time period, northcentral Kansas coyotes use every fenceline, tree row, drainage ditch, roll and fold to cover their approach until they get as close as they can, at which time they charge in low and fast, often times presenting initially as nothing more than a pair of ears and enough of their foreheads to allow their eyes a view over the hill in front of them being what you learn to look for. I've actually watched coyotes respond by running from one cedar tree to the next, stopping briefly behind each one to recon their next move.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted September 23, 2010 10:22 PM
Did Mercer say "yote"?
I have found, with both suburban and true urban coyotes, that calling (especially specific coyotes) can be very difficult (with suburban coyotes being only slightly "easier" to call).
Mainly, I believe, because finding areas to call/hunt from, in the inner city, and understanding how these areas are percieved by coyotes (territory, danger zones or safe zones, etc) can be an extremely difficult task.
Also, I believe that "connecting" with these coyotes can be a difficult thing too. Being where they are, when they are (or more correctly not being) has proved to be my undoing on the few jobs I ever took on.
Darkness tips the scales my way to a large degree, but lessens the options of shooting (without the cover sounds of city life, and with people less concerned with daily activities).
*Whether or not I can legally shoot coyotes is outweighed by the hassles of convincing law enforcement of the fact I have that power, and, that is coupled with the problems associated with the efficacy of sub-sonic loads (I'm allowed 700fps without very special (re: impossible to get) permits).
I gave up on trying to provide a solution to inner city coyote complaints, in the legal environment I am constrained by, despite the fact that just making the attempt can often be quite lucrative.
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 23, 2010 11:37 PM
Dang Krusty! You need help and we have a genuine "COYOTE MASTER" standing ready, willing and able. All you have to do is ask. If anybody can bring you up to speed on urban coyotes, Rich Higgins can do it. No shit.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted September 24, 2010 07:48 AM
Thank you, Leonard.
That was very gracious of you, as always.
furhrvstr, did you attend the seminars by the USDA WS trappers? The agent who handles the urban coyote complaints in the Phoenix metro area is Russ Fiel. Russ is a member of PVCI and he has given talks at the big clubs in the area about the job. He stated that he attempts to call the coyotes first but that often they just will not respond to calls. He removes them with night vision and suppressed rifles.
Russ handled the two very public recent coyote attacks . The five year old girl that was bitten in Scottsdale and the coyotes that chased the bike riders at the Chapparal canal
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 24, 2010 10:35 AM
quote:
Thank you, Leonard.
That was very gracious of you, as always.
Why, thank you, professor!
We are humbled and honored that you take the time. Such a fund of knowledge and a veritable "Prince" among men.
Night vision and silencers. Great.
Personally, and this is absolutely true, now that I ponder it; every single time I called, here locally, I called a coyote close enough to kill, had I the means. I am batting 100%, and with hand calls, exclusively. Of course, you can count the attempts on one hand, but 100% is 100%.
Good hunting. LB
edited for spelling, please excuse
[ September 24, 2010, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted September 24, 2010 11:03 AM
Leonard,
I'm past the point of needing the help. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
When I moved to Texas last year, I sold my wildlife control business, and now I'm going to school full time.
Even before I sold my business, much like my recreational calling, there were other better opportunities upon which I should have (and did) focus my attentions.
I could make the same amount of money, in a few days, actually catching raccoons ('possums, rats, etc.) and doing the associated repairs, as I could spending a month or so failing to eliminate a problem coyote or group of coyotes.
Extended "stake outs" often ended in extenuating circumstances preventing the removal of said coyotes.
I realize I could have, like Rich mentions, gotten ahold of better equipment that would have made some of the jobs less difficult, but that was an investment that was beyond my means at the time.
And again other opportunities fell into that category, just the set-up fees of a raccoon job paid for two traps and bait. All I had to do was cover my travel costs and time and I generally came out way ahead.
It would have taken several years worth of occasional coyote complaints to cover the cost of a suppressor (which, though legal to possess in this state, is not legal to actually use) and night vision equipment.
*I'm limited to 700fps, under the guidelines of my current permits, so stopping power/efficacy of "legal" firearm use at all, is questionable.
As Tim B and I discussed in the past, trapping was no more viable an option than hunting nuisance coyotes, in the legal environment I worked in.
Having Rich "standing ready" seems to be a rather new developement, as he wasn't participating here when I was doing control work.
Rich,
Nice to see ya! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
A USDA WS agent has much more leway within the law, and resources far beyond mine. These combine to make him much more effective and able than I may ever be.
Well I'm off to the library, to work a paper on "the effects of beaver dams on small streams" for my watershed management class... see y'all later.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 24, 2010 12:32 PM
That's great, Krusty.
Speaking of beaver, I suppose I'll never get one?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted September 24, 2010 12:56 PM
Leonard,
I want "Veritable Prince" under my name also.
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted September 24, 2010 12:59 PM
quote:
Speaking of beaver, I suppose I'll never get one?
Lose a little weight and try to be a little more gracious.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 24, 2010 01:58 PM
thanks for the tip, anything else?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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fgf4
unknown comic
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posted September 24, 2010 02:16 PM
I'm biting my tongue and rolling on the floor!!!
Now that's funny!!!!!!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted September 24, 2010 02:28 PM
quote:
Speaking of beaver, I suppose I'll never get one?
I got one in the freezer Leonard, you pay for the tanning and its youre's..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5061 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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