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Author
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Topic: Sense of security-comfort zone
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted February 27, 2005 10:02 AM
This is a topic that I've never seen discussed before. I would be interested in reading all of your opinions about this.
I believe that as a coyote is pressured it's sense of security is reduced in direct proportion to the pressure. As it's sense of security is reduced, so are the coyotes comfort zones and both influence the coyotes behavior, especially it's response to howls and distress calls.
For example, windy days reduce a coyotes ability to hear, (too much background noise), to smell, (the wind disperses the scent and fluctuating currents blow it up and over large areas),and to avoid danger by picking up movement (everything is moving). Their comfort zone is usually reduced to washes and other areas of thick cover and attempting to call them out into the open is usually not successful. One solution is to sneak into the washes or cover and call from there.
Another example, callers drive up to an area, park the truck off the road and walk a short distance toward the area they believe coyotes are and call a stand. After which they walk back to the truck and drive off. I believe coyotes that have observed this and survived will consider the direction of the source of danger, in this case the road, outside their comfort zone and will not readily approach a call coming from that direction. One solution is to approach from a different direction and call them into an area that doesn't disturb their sense of security.
I believe that pressured coyotes----
become habituated to distress calls and can come to associate them with danger and approaching the call is outside their comfort zone and sense of security.
act as if open areas during daylight are outside their comfort zone and will frequent those areas primarily at night.
ignore moving vehicles until they stop and immediately regard it as outside their comfort zone.
I believe that a hunter that calls to pressured coyotes (especially eastern coyotes) must consider the coyotes sense of security and find possible comfort zones. There will probably be solutions.
Thoughts?
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 27, 2005 10:49 AM
Well, I have always been an advocate of locating my stands in the lee of a hillside when the wind is blowing. My theory is that a coyote understands that using the terrain to his advantage is a no brainer, just as mule deer tend to camp on the sunny side of a hill in the morning, in cold weather. And just as they gravitate to the shady side in warmer weather. Call it a comfort zone from danger or "creature comfort" zones, they probably are interchangable, to some extent? Like a coyote crawling into culverts, where there is no other cover.
Another point where I agree is the changing patterns when a coyote feels preasured. I'm sure that they can be successfully hunted at night, in places where they are highly pressured during daylight hours, such as those parts of Kansas and Colorado where they get shot at from every passing vehicle.
I am less convinced that walking a half mile from a vehicle is the only way to kill a coyote that has heard a distress call, before. The walk itself can disturb many bedded coyotes, some seen, some not. Sounds and scent betray the hunter, careful as he may be.
On the other hand, getting down in the heavy cover with suitable weapons is a good solution. I think attempting to call a coyote toward an opening in the direction of a well traveled road is less productive, but I have given up predicting exactly the direction where a coyote will approach.
In fact, I am positive that there are certain areas that I hunt, where the most productive hunting is in close proximity to the road. Oops, that's a major slip of the tongue!
Oh well. Good topic, Rich.
Good hunting. LB
[ February 27, 2005, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted February 27, 2005 12:13 PM
Rich, good observation. I have found tracks on the "road" side of an area, but they had to have been made at night. Can't get a visual no matter how hard you try in the daytime. But circle around to the opposite side of that area where there is no "road" and call from there and here they come. Call it "comfort" or call it conditioning, they know when and where it's safe to expose themselves.
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted February 27, 2005 12:49 PM
I agree with Rich and Leonard, but like Dennis has said , we don't really live in the east or the west. The pressure here comes in many different forms. Not only are there several people who call there are also farmers driving into pastures to feed and cut ice. Whether he is a shooting farmer or not, the coyotes change their habits. There are also woodcutters going to a patch of timber to cut wood on a daily basis. This also adds to the coyote not feeling comfortable.
Years ago when trapping you could expect a visit every 1.5 days. Now that has increased to one visit per 5 days. We do have fewer coyotes now, but their routines are a little different. Now they may stay in an area for a couple of days if that area has no feeding or woodcutting going on. I try to find those areas and call the heck out of them. I don't let an area rest and may call it 3 or 4 times in one week. Using different sounds and calling from different locations within that area.
I try to be there calling after they have arrived and the only way to be sure is to call about every day. Sometimes it doesn' work out like I plan.
Later in the season, the coyotes in my area, feel more comfortable in the timbers. These are the larger patches that are above the creek bottoms. They hunt the bottoms during the night and retreat to the timbers during the day. Most walk right on by good looking brushy ditches where you would expect to find them earlier in the season when pressure was less.
I do a lot of walking, but I try to call several areas with subtle calling instead of trying to blast them out of one big area. And like Leonard said, I know I still bump a few. There has to be a little trade-off with this type of calling.
Randy
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted February 27, 2005 02:49 PM
Here's a picture of the setup that I shot 2 off of yesterday. It's about a 600-700 yard walk off the road. 10:30 A.M. no howling, just a mini blaster. Thick heavy cover to the right that leads into a big timber. The first coyote is laying just to the left of the center bale. The second coyote, which came in about 1 1/2 minutes later, is laying just to the right of the second bale, to the left of the center bale. Btw:Both males.
Randy, does that type of country look familiar? It's not to far from you.
Dennis
[ February 27, 2005, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted February 27, 2005 04:10 PM
Yep Dennis, looks a lot like the country I call complete with houses and barns in the background. Only thing missing is the toothless guy sitting on the front porch playing the banjo.
Randy
[ February 27, 2005, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: R.Shaw ]
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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WhiteMtnCur
Knows what it's all about
Member # 5
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posted February 27, 2005 04:20 PM
I've found that certain areas do have a tendency to put a coyote on guard more. In calling, if a certain road has every weekend warrior driving down it, parking and calling from the road, it's hard to get a coyote to respond to a call if you're trying to make the coyote come towards that road.
Switch things around and put that coyote between you and the road, and try to call him away from it and your success rate goes up greatly.
I've found it very interesting in how much night and day play a part in this. While it may be almost impossible to call in a coyote from a certain road due to tremendous calling pressure. At night you can park right on that road and call in coyotes (they may hang up a ways out, but they're much more apt to respond). To me it seems like a dangerous situation (distress sounds coming from the direction of a road) aren't associated as dangerous at night (or at least not as dangerous). Granted, missing a few at night while calling would change this, but generally speaking, the cover of darkness seems to change a coyotes perspective. Making a coyote more confident in a situation he wouldn't be comfortable in during the day.
You see this a lot more in trapping/snaring also.
[ February 27, 2005, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: WhiteMtnCur ]
Posts: 97 | From: Nevada | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted February 27, 2005 05:29 PM
Dennis,
Nice pictures! Looks like a pretty far poke out to that center bale.
I love calling at this time of the year! It seems you are just as likely to call in multiples as you are a single!
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Baldknobber
Knows what it's all about
Member # 514
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posted February 28, 2005 02:45 PM
Randy, some of the things you described in your hunting I will have to try here in the Ozarks. Dont worry about getting Greenside a toothless guy. I can furnish him, the banjo and maybe some corn liquor. Email me sometime, as I would like to correspond with you on this Mo.stuff.
Greenside, looks like you did that first coyote a big favor. The others looked great though!!
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JTBMO
Posts: 202 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jan 2005
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Cat hunter1
Knows what it's all about
Member # 493
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posted February 28, 2005 03:43 PM
Baldknobber what part of Mo. are you in? I'm in St. Louis, area but hunt up North in Knox co.
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"You see, my mule don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize-like I know you're going to-I might convince him that you really didn't mean it..."
Posts: 31 | From: Knox County, Mo. | Registered: Dec 2004
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Baldknobber
Knows what it's all about
Member # 514
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posted February 28, 2005 05:25 PM
Cathunter 1, Ilive at Cabool, between Springfield and West Plains, in Texas county.
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JTBMO
Posts: 202 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jan 2005
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Cat hunter1
Knows what it's all about
Member # 493
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posted March 01, 2005 01:37 PM
Baldknobber I go to springfeild alot to see my dad. Going down this weekend. Will have to get together sometime.
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"You see, my mule don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize-like I know you're going to-I might convince him that you really didn't mean it..."
Posts: 31 | From: Knox County, Mo. | Registered: Dec 2004
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Baldknobber
Knows what it's all about
Member # 514
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posted March 01, 2005 02:14 PM
Cathunter1-AFFIRMATIVE on that. I always need someone to watch downwind. Email me and let me know when you are down next and we'll see what happens. Adios
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JTBMO
Posts: 202 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jan 2005
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paintcan
PAKMAN
Member # 560
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posted March 04, 2005 07:20 PM
Hi
This is my first post on the Huntmasters forum.
Rich, interesting topic.
My most recent hunting experience in ND two weeks ago would be an example of hunting the coyotes in their "comfort zone".
My most productive sets was in large trees overlooking large cattail swamps and CRP fields. By setting the caller about 70 yards upwind into the cattails/CRP, the coyotes didn't have to leave the protection of cover as they approached the caller downwind. From my view up in the tree, there usually were several natural openings to shoot through.
I ended up shooting 4 coyotes in three days with this type of setup. (Four different trees) Two of the coyotes almost made it to my tracks before I spotted them. All four were shot at a range of 40 to 60 yards as they circled downwind of the Foxpro. I know these aren't "Q" numbers, but I made very few sets.
This isn't the way I normally hunt, but I couldn't seem to call the coyotes out of the thick cover during this trip. k
Posts: 1 | From: Woodbury, MN | Registered: Feb 2005
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted March 04, 2005 08:16 PM
Paintcan, welcome. Your's is the perfect illustration of coyote behavior adapted to reduced comfort zones and security levels. The coyote is only the second most adaptable predator. Predator callers are number one. I hope our eastern members read your post.
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted March 04, 2005 08:36 PM
I thought Slim Pederson's book did an excellent job of describing/illustrating what you're talking about Rich. I really enjoyed his approach to the subject of coyote behavior. Nice light, easy, entertaining read.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rob
Knows what it's all about
Member # 75
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posted March 04, 2005 10:00 PM
Daa Slim has another book called The Next Generation- Life of Coyotes...He also has a book on calling can't remember the name right now...All of Slim's books are great.
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"Where did all these #$%^&* Indians come from?" Gen. George Armstrong Custer
Posts: 224 | From: Clancy Montana | Registered: Feb 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted March 05, 2005 06:44 AM
I did not know about the other book Rob. Thanks for the tip!
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted March 05, 2005 07:47 AM
Rob, Thanks for the tip on the Slim Pederson calling book. Is this a new book? I have not seen it advertised with his other books.
I really enjoyed both of Slim's "Life of Coyotes"and "Next Generation" books.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rob
Knows what it's all about
Member # 75
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posted March 05, 2005 08:36 AM
Lonny Slim's callin book has been out for a couple years..Still can't remember the name of it but I do remember that it was $15.00 dollars postpaid.
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"Where did all these #$%^&* Indians come from?" Gen. George Armstrong Custer
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