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Author
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Topic: Many More Trapping Questions...
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted October 26, 2004 11:27 AM
I have a bunch more questions relating to trapping.
I am still crunching numbers, and I need a more concrete supply list.
What are the "essentials" all trappers need to have (even those who only use cage traps).
There is a lot of stuff to choose from, a lot of it I have no clue what it is for.
On a sifter, what size mesh do you use? I have a prospectors screen, it's like a small gold pan with 3/8" mesh, is this too big?
Since I won't have to hold an animal to release it from a restraining trap, do I still need a catch pole, and does anyone have a plan for a homemade one?
Has anyone tried using a gravity door trap (like a colony muskrat trap) for raccoons? Are they smart enough to lift the door, and release themselves?
I can make them myself and save a lot of dough, but it's not worth the savings if $10 raccoons keep letting themselves go.
Live trap prices are unreal... I never expected to have to pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars just to run a short line.
It could take several years just to pay off the equipment. And that's without figuring in trap theft, which (with large cage traps) is more likely than other types of sets.
I got my T&pc Mag yesterday, in it is a projection for fur prices this coming season.
It was dismal. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
In my area (7a), prices are low, particularly on bobcats (which is where I thought the big money would come in).
Does anyone know of a way to tell the sizes of your pelts, say a #2 Raccoon, how big is that?
What about a pack basket, is it a needed item or a luxury? I had actually considered using a chicken wire basket on an old pack frame, or just an old backpack.
I keep thinking of using a piece of plastic sewer pipe to hide my smaller traps inside, I could dye/camo them, or even overbury them with debris making a "semi-cubby" set.
These could also be capped at one end, and stuffed into the bank to appear like a drainage pipe. In my work installing septic systems I could accumulate a lot of 6", 12" and even 24" pipe scraps, for free.
Am I overthinking this? I am terrified of trap theft, it's like leaving $50 bills all over the woods.
I am sure I'll think of more, but I have already gone too long on this post.
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted October 26, 2004 03:15 PM
Krusty,
I believe the sifter you described would work. I use 1/4 inch mesh myself. If you don't have any nontarget catches, you should not need a catch pole. But I would have one.
I have never tried the cage trap you described. I would give it a try, but deep down I believe some of the coons will release themselves.
For pvc sets for coons , you really don't need anything larger than 2 inches. The trap is set in front not inside.
Grades of coons in my area are measured from the tip of the nose down the side of the stretcher to where the fur quits. You will be close measuring them skinned only.
under 24 small
24-26 medium
26-28 large
28-30 x large
30-32 xx large
above 33 xxx large
Randy
[ October 26, 2004, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: R.Shaw ]
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted October 26, 2004 05:28 PM
Randy,
Thanks, that does help some.
I don't know if you realize it, but I have to use cage traps by law.
I figure I am going to need three sizes of traps, some for mink/weasle sized critters, some muskrat, and some for coons.
I would put the whole cage inside of the pipe (or under half of a pipe, sorta like the lid on a weasle box set ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ), so for a 10" x 12" coon cage it would take a fairly large diameter.
A way to hide them (from people), in plain sight, so to speak.
I am leary of using colony traps for muskrats, because I cannot use drowning sets, and I am afraid they'd fight and damage each other too much. And I don't think muskrats are worth enough to spend a lot on single 'rat traps (though I can make them myself). Besides the area I have my eye on probably doesn't hold many, if any, muskrats.
I don't know what kind of "PVC pipe set" you're talking about. Do you mean with some sort of coon cuffs in the end of a pipe, baited and kicked into the creek bank?
That could be a sweet set.
I love this trapping stuff, the possibilities are endless. Each time I read about another type of set "I know a place that would be perfect for that". ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted October 26, 2004 08:29 PM
Krusty,
If you are only going to be using cage traps, then you won't have any need for a sifter, or pipes. With all of those trees you have up there, just pile up some brush and leaves or pine needles around your traps. You can completely enclose everything but the door. You won't need any type of release pole with a cage trap either, but you should carry an old sheet to cover the trap if you catch a skunk. Just lay the sheet over the trap and you can carry the cage to where ever you want.
Set your traps on sign, but off of the beaten path, to help cut down on trap theft.
Don't bother with colony traps for muskrats. They are designed to be drowning traps and any living muskrats will attract mink and you will end up with eaten rats. Plus if the traps slips down in the water, you will drown them and a jerk C.O. might site you for it.
If you are going to build your own cage traps, stay away from the cheap rabbit hutch cage material that you will find in the local hardware store. A coon can rip out the side in just a few minutes. If you build gravity operated traps, be sure to build the type with washers that drop down and lock the doors. Then stake the traps upright, or a large coon will simply roll the trap over and release himself. The best cage trap I have ever found for raccoons is the Havahart 1079 model. Many larger coons will reach in for the bait and the spring loaded door will smack him into the butt, making him jump forward, instead of backing out.
For raccoon bait, the best cage trap bait I have ever found for coons is jumbo marshmallows. For muskrats, use lettuce, carrots and some Anise oil as a lure. For Mink, use muskrat meat, and keep it fairly fresh.
The best way to help cut down on theft, is to check them just before daylight, and take care to not be seen carrying a trap in to a set location. Curious people will follow, and the A$$holes will steal the traps.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Blak coyote
Knows what it's all about
Member # 415
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posted October 26, 2004 10:57 PM
Here's a link to a few trapping sites,that might help. coyotes"R"us
Trapline community
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Bad dog no biscuit
Posts: 22 | From: N.E.WI. | Registered: Oct 2004
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted October 26, 2004 11:37 PM
Thanks guys.
Tim,
Yeah I figure I can make the 'rat and smaller cages, myself.
I read in the T&pc yearbook of a way to prevent weasles or mink from forcing a gravity trap open.
I also planned to stake the traps in place to keep them from being rolled over
But the coon cages I figured I'd go with commercial units, because coons are bigger, stronger, smarter, and more valuable.
I thought I needed (or it would help) to sift dirt over the wire cage bottom.
Yeah covering the cage in a brushpile, or finding a natural cubby, is probably going to be the easy way to go. I always overthink things.
Blak Coyote,
Thanks those are good links too, my trapping favorites folder is getting pretty full.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted October 27, 2004 07:33 AM
Krusty,
Tim seems to understand what you are trying to do and gave you great info. You don't need a sifter for anything to do with cage traps. Spend your money on your traps and your lure/bait. Don't worry about the cost. Just spend all you have and then you will work harder to get it back. LOL!. At least thats my theory. I've spent close to a grand so far this year on lure, bait, new traps, snare building equipment, etc. and I have yet to set a trap. But I'm sure I will make it all back, maybe even with a little profit.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted October 27, 2004 04:32 PM
quote:
Just spend all you have and then you will work harder to get it back. LOL!. At least thats my theory.
My phone used to get disconnected every September, because I'd go to the NTA convention every August and spend all the money I'd saved up, plus everything my wife have saved up to pay bills with!
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Norm
Knows what it's all about
Member # 240
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posted October 27, 2004 05:05 PM
Krusty, great advice in this thread. Those Marshmellows are great attractors to say the least...
If you are going to trap, you need to not generate a profit and loss statement... Do it because you want to. Some years it will create a profit, some years it will cost you; Have fun with it...
It is like elk hunting; If you actually figured the cost of the meat per pound... you would not elk hunt.... If you try and justify trapping... don't start... It will save you anxiety....
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Carpe Diem
Posts: 778 | From: Phx AZ | Registered: Oct 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted October 27, 2004 07:14 PM
Cal,
What size of cable do you like and what type of locks?
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted October 27, 2004 07:32 PM
Tim,
I'm using 1/16" crucible garroting cable with cam locks. I also use a 90 lb S hook type breakaway device and the 23 lb choke springs. They seem to work well on cats and coyotes but you have to have them where you have some entanglement to completely avoid chew outs. I did have one coyote chew out last year, but most are dead so fast that there isn't even a burn out or any sign of a struggle. The CG cable is smoother and faster than the aircraft type 7X7 cable and it is a little stiffer so you get a nice loop with very little teardrop.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted October 27, 2004 07:48 PM
Cal,
Are you sure it is a 90 lb BAD? That sounds very light to me. We aren't allowed to use choke springs , so maybe you can go lighter with these?We are requried to use 280 lb break aways. In other words that is the upper limit.
Randy
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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wdhunt40
Knows what it's all about
Member # 184
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posted October 27, 2004 09:20 PM
Krusty to get started if you can get the pvc pipe in long enough length use it for the trap body, fasten and end cap to it and sliding drop door for the front. Bait them set them brush them in good and you would be set. The twenty four inch dia would work well for cats in your area.
Wayne
Posts: 11 | From: cheney wa. | Registered: Apr 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted October 27, 2004 10:29 PM
Cal,
Yeah Tim understands this way better than I do, and I am lucky he's taking the time to explain it to me.
"Spend all you have", too late, I don't have any money for this... lol
I am going to have to be really really creative.
Norm,
I gave up steelhead fishing, because they were running me about $100 a pound.
I sure don't expect to turn a big profit, or any at all, but it would be nice to have the equipment pay for itself before it wears out.
It's definitely something I'd do, to avoid more serious stuff.
Tim,
You mentioned some type of washer locking dealio for the doors? Can you elaborate?
I spent the better part of the evening looking for cage trap plans, and sturdy cage wire, with little or no luck.
The bucket traps are looking better all the time.
Wayne,
I saw those "ends" for PVC pipe traps once a year or so ago, but I cannot for the life of me locate them now.
The Snare Shop sell the whole traps, but they have raised the price a lot more than just the additional cost of the pipe (I remember them costing about 25 bucks in kit form), and I don't want to pay for the pipe or the shipping (when I can scrap it from work for free).
Thanks again everyone, I am pretty stoked about this, despite the State trying everything it can to discourage me.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted October 28, 2004 06:00 PM
Randy,
That is what they are but it is a confusing system to say the least. Ours have to be 225 or less by state law. With the 90 pounders and the spring they will break out at way over 90 lbs. If you use the heavier ones they won't release deer. Most of the info and testing I get comes from O'Gorman. Thats his reccomendation, so thats what I use. His claims are that with the spring, 110's open at 225 lbs and 90's open at 160 lbs. 150's open at 250lbs.
Obviously the choke spring must make a huge difference in shock being absorbed and makes it harder for the b.a.d. to work.
[ October 28, 2004, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Cal Taylor ]
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Dave
Knows what it's all about
Member # 402
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posted October 28, 2004 07:17 PM
Krusty,
The best coon bait I have found is you get 5lbs. of smelt and 4oz. of shell fish oil. Grind the smelt and mix in the oil. I should make a gallon of bait. It works well in the dakota's on our coon. As far as live trap's go if you have a welder available to you you can make the frame for a few dollar's. Use quality mesh or a coon will destroy it! If you want I could get you the plan's for the trap. Trap's that sell for $50 plus I can build for $15-$20. Not counting my time beeing worth anything. When you go after mink You need to desent your trap's and handle them with trapping glove's. They will smell your sent on the trap and you will be left withempty trap 's. Trapping is alot of fun. Done it since I was a kid, and I am passing what I know on to my 6 yr old son. He tries to be a big help(lol). I do it for the fun, the profit is a bonus.
Dave
Posts: 28 | From: South Dakota | Registered: Sep 2004
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted October 28, 2004 07:50 PM
Cal,
Thanks for the reply. That makes sense.
Randy
Posts: 545 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted October 28, 2004 08:13 PM
Dave,
I can weld alrighty, one of my best talents.
If you could hook me up with some sort of plan I'd sure appreciate it.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cal Taylor
Knows what it's all about
Member # 199
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posted October 29, 2004 06:54 AM
Well Krusty with no money I would recomend watching Gilligan's Island re-runs. I remember one show that would work for you. If you don't remember it I will explain it as good as I can. You dig a pit about 6'X6' and about 8' deep. Make sure the sides are straight up and down so nothing can get up the sides. Cover with palm leaves, if you don't have palm leaves, then ferns will probably work. Bait with a trail of marshmallows leading to your pit and check daily. If you want to make it a lethal trap, you put pointy sticks in the bottom, but due to liability reasons, I wouldn't recomend the pointy sticks.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
FoxPro Field Staff Member
Posts: 1069 | From: Wyoming | Registered: May 2003
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Steve Craig
Lacks Opposable Thumbs/what's up with that?
Member # 12
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posted October 29, 2004 07:00 AM
KK,
Check out www.trapperman.com and make a post about cage trapping and also check out the archives as well. A fellow by the name of Stacy Yancy traps Calf. using only live traps there. Very knowledgeable fellow and he will help you out. With a little enginnering on your part, you can come up with a cheap live trap that will work great on cats for under $7 each. You just have to think about it some is all.
Steve
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Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction. - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 442 | From: Cottonwood,Az, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted October 29, 2004 10:54 AM
Cal,
Yer pretty funny!
Actually the "Gold and Fish" pamphlet put out by our state's geology dept (the rule book for mineral prospectors) clearly has outlawed your "Gilligan pit".
Any hole more that 4 feet deep must be "ramped or filled" before leaving the excavation site, to prevent entrapment of wildlife.
And besides if I remember it right, all Gilligan ever caught, was Gilligan!
I will have to get busy, and create the financing to trap, if I want to.
No money, and "no way" don't always match up.
Steve,
Thanks for the advise, I'll try to look up Mr. Yancy.
I have noticed trappers are VERY helpful, much in the same way and for the same reasons climbers feel compelled to mentor others. To protect the way of life. If new people mess it up, it can all be taken away from everyone.
Right now engineering a live catch cage trap is tough, I don't even have a basic grasp of the "works", I don't know that I have ever seen one up close or thought about the workings of one.
I figured I would do some research, try to figure out who makes the best traps, buy one or two used, and learn to work them.
And that most of my first seasons would be spent concentrating on the smaller traps and critters. The traps are cheaper, lighter, easier to hide, and easier to make myself.
Tim,
Washer lock dealio???
__________________________________________________
Right now this is all just conjecture, the state hasn't gotten back to me about my application for educational materials, and I still have to take and pass the trapping test (even getting in the office to take the test seems something for which they have no actual plan in place).
I believe they don't think anyone would actually go through all the hassles.
This is all just to help me look before I leap.
I sure appreciate everyones help, and Leonard letting me use this forum to play this out.
Thanks again!
Krusty
[ October 29, 2004, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted October 29, 2004 03:08 PM
Figure 4 deadfall. Put all those damned trees you can't see the coyotes thru to good use. Now, somebody drive up there and show him how to make one. They're free.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted October 29, 2004 05:35 PM
Lance,
I think I already learned that trap in Outward Bound, that's like you'd use for deer right?
A "killing set" by definition is not legal here, without a permit. I am sure that wouldn't go over well on an ADC Permit application either. lol
quote:
Now, somebody drive up there and show him how...
I think you should get in your truck, and drive on out here, we'll go hunting for a few days (using your calls and mine) and run my trapline a couple times, then you can write a couple articles about it.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted October 29, 2004 06:02 PM
Dang, Krusty, I wrote and rewrote several different answers to ya, but I kept hearing my mother's voice in the back of my mind, bless her soul, and I think I'll take her advice on this one... "nothing at all." ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
[ October 29, 2004, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted October 29, 2004 06:49 PM
Lance,
Geeze man, I am sorry.
I didn't mean any of what I said in a bad way, and I'd truely enjoy taking you hunting and trapping here (even though I am fairly sure you really don't like me, and would never accept ).
And I really thought it would make for interesting reading too. Something like "New Trapper in a Cage", and/or "Hunting the Black Timber", I'd love to read both articles.
I am sorry you feel you have to "walk on eggs" when replying to me, I can and have taken everything you said in a good way and I haven't run across anything my Mom would be upset over (sometimes, when I deserve it, she yells at me too ).
It's just that everybody says somebody else should come "show me", and very few others have ever been hunting with me.
I figured you have more gas money than I do, and a truck. And that writing an article or two might be a way for you to offset those costs.
There's a spare bedroom at my Dad's house, and I am absolutely sure you'd be welcome, and have a place to stay.
Please, consider it an honest invitation.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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