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Author
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Topic: Scent precautions
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WolverineAtWork
Knows what it's all about
Member # 23
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posted January 29, 2003 06:40 AM
I know that cover and "confounding" scents have been discussed, such as "Leonard's Magic Mist"
I'm curious what precautions you guys take before going afield. Scent free deoderant? Wash your cammies in scent free detergent? Bathe in scent free soap? What's your particular mojo?
Posts: 87 | From: AZ | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 29, 2003 08:59 AM
It's very hard to grasp this scent issue, as it applies to coyotes.
Too many people come from a deer hunting background, where they sit in a tree stand all morning, and can't control wind currents, or the animals that appear from any point of the compass. One thing you can be reasonably assured of: a whitetail won't bother to circle downwind to get your scent. That's your only weakness, as I see it.
Spending several hours in a tree, you can stink up a lot of area. Do what you have to do, I have never hunted from a tree stand in my life.
When hunting coyotes, you select where you are going to set up. You should be there fifteen twenty minutes, max; so situate yourself to take advantage of the wind direction, and leave it at that.
If a coyote gets downwind of you, he will smell human, regardless of what you do to prevent it. So, that's not what we are trying to do, because that's a loser.
If you want to call misting urine downwind a "confuser" that's okay, because all we are doing there is getting the animal to check up long enough for a clear, well aimed shot. Depending on how acustomed the coyote is to human scent, he may stay there quite a long time. Sometimes, they will come to the call from downwind, but don't bet the rent. All you can expect is a decent shot, something you probably would not get, if you didn't mist.
What do I do before a hunt? Understand, I don't bother to go out for a few hours, I am gone the entire weekend. I always shower just before I leave, just for comfort. Deoderant but no fufu.
Have I noticed that the coyotes react differently when I'm shower fresh as to a day and a half later, when I'm starting to get a little ripe? No. Beyond my control, and I don't worry about it, anyway.
The key thing is the magic mist. That's what gets their attention and delays the survival instinct from kicking in for a few precious seconds. That's all I need.
There you have it. As close as I can describe the concept, I know it works within the parameters I expect; and it can work for you, if you understand what's going on.
Good hunting. LB
edited for spelling
[ January 29, 2003, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted January 29, 2003 09:42 AM
I agree with Leonard.I think some people try to do to much when it comes to scent control.You could spend forever trying to clean this and deodorize that and guess what?Coyotes would still scent you.Same with cover scent,from what I've seen it really doesn't help.I was about ready to give up on trying to do anything about scent.Until I started using Leonards "Mist" that's the only stuff that has been consistant in confusing coyotes.GOOD HUNTING Chad......
[ January 29, 2003, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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20t-n-t
Knows what it's all about
Member # 46
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posted January 29, 2003 10:00 AM
Well said Leonard,
I would like to add if I can, trying to fool a coyotes nose? You may confuse it for a seccond or two but he lives by his nose, just try to fool your bisket eaters nose in your back yard and he don't depend on it for servival.
I learned this trapping, at first I was so damn careful about sent. My sets took longer than the other guys that I worked around, because I was so careful about sent, but I did'nt catch more yotes. In fact I was catching less. So one day I said to myself, I'm going to try some thing a little diffrent. No gloves, no rubber boots just set steal and don't worry about my sent.
That day I made 11 more sets than usual and when I checked my line for 2 weeks my take had gone up 31% and boys that is a lot. Them yotes know you have been there, they just want to know that you'er gone. same applys here, I've tried sentlock suits,,,, just more crap to lug around and when they get down wind its over.
This may sound funny but for about the last 15 years I have used a Gillie and as a result most of my shots are under 200 in open country and under 60 in close cover. I also get away with a little more movement. That is my best kept secret and untill about 6 years ago I never seen anyone doing it, I'm sure there was but I never seen it.
Hope this helps
Slydog
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Teach a kid to hunt and fish and feed them for a lifetime......
Posts: 245 | From: Boise Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted January 29, 2003 10:30 AM
Camo is another thing I think is totally overrated.There are so many different camo's out there,a guy could go broke before he even made his first stand out calling.3D,Ghille,every color you can imagine.I usually wear tan carhart pants,and a tan carhart jacket,or if I want to wear camo I wear an old woodland,or desert camo military coat,and my lucky camo hat. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) It has worked for me for many many years,and the coyotes don't seem to mind. ![[Wink]](wink.gif) Like Danny has said in the past,most guys didn't even have camo to buy in the old days and they still called coyotes>lots of coyotes. I think 20tnt hit the nail on the head.MOVEMENT is the key.If you can't sit still and you're moving around alot,I don't care what kind of camo you're wearing coyotes will pick you out.Just my two cents.GOOD HUNTING Chad....
[ January 29, 2003, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Terry Hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 58
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posted January 29, 2003 05:12 PM
I have been using the mist for about 4 months.It has held the animals attention long enough for me to take several coyotes that would have winded me.
Posts: 132 | From: N. Middle Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted January 29, 2003 05:29 PM
This camo and movement thing is the only subject that Chad and I have ever disagreed on that can remember. I am an absolute desciple of proper camo, not to blend and disappear so much as just to hide the human form. Coyotes responding to a call expect to see movement I do a lot of moving with coyotes close in front of me and get away with it because I don't give them a human form.
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted January 29, 2003 09:29 PM
Not to sound trite; but to a virgin coyote, how would it discern your "human form" from a lamp post or a barrel cactus? Ive never gotten on board with the human form theory. A human form MOVING around I can understand, but it's the movement not the form that makes the coyote shag. I do use camo, but not religious about make or style, just enough to make my fellow callers believe Im savvy to the correct attire to be worn by a predator caller:)
Posts: 1629 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 29, 2003 09:48 PM
Well, Okay. We got a question on the floor. Is a human form recognizable, instinctually? Unless he is standing and/or walking, is the sight of a man sitting, motionless, against a bush, wearing his Carharts, interpreted as a threat or not?
What say you? LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted January 30, 2003 05:13 AM
Jeez AZ,
Looks like you just revealed my secret to the world. ![[Frown]](frown.gif) When Scott said "Give them something to look at or see" I smiled.
Dennis
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted January 30, 2003 05:14 AM
Nothing trite in your reply, Az. Question, where do you find "virgin" coyotes that have seen "lamp posts" but not a human? You've got it wrong , Az. If it were movement that made a coyote shag, these battery operated decoys we use would be named "Shagger" or "Repeller" not "Enticer".
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WolverineAtWork
Knows what it's all about
Member # 23
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posted January 30, 2003 06:24 AM
Leonard, I would think that it's one of those "something here just isn't right" kind of moments.
Posts: 87 | From: AZ | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 30, 2003 08:56 AM
...and yet. I have observed plenty of coyotes scrutinize an open clearing with a camo'd speaker and prey sounds coming from it. But they won't approach because they don't see anything. At least that's what it looks like to me? It appears that these particular animals need to see some sort of form, recognizable or not?
Reminds me of the time that Vic
poo-pooed "reflections" that spook coyotes. He said there are many sources of bright reflections in the natural world, and if coyotes were afraid of them, they would still be running. Again, movement?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted January 30, 2003 09:59 AM
I think you are right, Leonard. If it were movement that frightened coyotes away they would either starve, because if an animal a coyote was stalking moved, the coyote would "shag", or worse, when the wind blew and every bush moved, the coyote would run themselves to death. Nope, the desert is a busy place, lots of movement, birds, rodents, cattle and predator callers. Only one of those spook coyotes.
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted January 30, 2003 01:44 PM
Rich,I think you are correct to a certain extent.Human form is definitely something that will spook a coyote.But I also believe that it is the movement of that human form that is the thing that spooks a coyote the most.A decoy(bird,rabbit,enticer,a coyote decoy) moving when a coyote spots it is PROBABLY a familar looking form so they think they see something natural so they are alot less likely to spook.Whereas a human form moving all around is a unnatural sight and thus they spook.I have just seen it to many times where a coyote is starring right at my position from under 50 yards and I am wearing no camo at all,but he doesn't seem spooked in the least.Whereas you move to raise you rifle and he sees you move and he's gone....So I can see what you're saying,but like I said for my purposes of calling and SHOOTING I just don't see the need for camo.Now I do believe you need to GENERALLY blend in to your surrounding.You don't want to stick out like a sore thumb. GOOD HUNTING Chad.....
[ January 30, 2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bomba
Knows what it's all about
Member # 71
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posted January 30, 2003 02:38 PM
Bomba see lamp post first time and never think same as hunterman. Bomba not run from iron pole either. If iron post fall on Bomba, then Bomba no go near again.
Bomba ask chief what he think yellow dog see and chief say
quote:
Many thing scare yellow dog like thunder, big movement and sour mouse. Little movement not bother big animal creature but big movement make much aggressive animal creature feel small and fearful.
Posts: 40 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted January 30, 2003 02:50 PM
"Whereas a human form moving all around is a unnatural sight .... GOOD HUNTING Chad....."
HEY, I resemble that remark!!!!!
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
Posts: 2219 | From: CO | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bud
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4
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posted January 30, 2003 05:32 PM
Interesting discussion, here is my four cents.
I am absolutely sure that colorblind creatures can discern differences in camoflage. I have a son and a daughter that failed the Ishihara test with flying colors.
I didn't have a clue until we were hunting one day and my son couldn't see hunters in a cut-over area making a drive. They were like red lightbulbs to me. By the same token, he could spot me in camo at any distance that he could see me. ALMOST!
If camoflage was super close, as far as tones, to my background I was invisible to him unless I moved.
I did some study and found that the military have used colorblind people to spot camo covered ordinance, from the air, since WWII. If it isn't a close blend(tones) they can pick it out in a heartbeat. Aren't Coyotes colorblind?
I go to the trouble to try to match my background.
Someone talked about reflections. My entire family wear glasses. I know for sure that I've been busted by animals seeing the flash while I was turning my head. My wife was a few hundred yards away with binoculars and saw two deer spook while looking my direction. She knew where My stand was and turned her binoculars toward me and saw major flashes before she picked me out. I wish she had been looking my way and could have told me what I was doing. One deer was, apparently, huge. I didn't get to see them. The net mask I now wear does not have eye holes. I look through the mesh and do not find it to be a problem.
You talked about "form" or shape. My boys are almost half indian. One is dark as I am. The other is darn near an albino(bad blood from his mother). A few years ago we were calling in coyotes to beat the band. There was no snow on the ground and it was a nice morning. Somewhere near noon I noticed that coyotes that were keying on my decoy heart would all of a suddenly spook. After a couple stands like that I walked out to see if I could spot anything wrong. It was my oldest son(the colorblind albino). He had removed his facemask. His bright pink/white face looked like the moon when he turned his head. He put his mask back on. Coyotes quit spooking.
Do coyotes spook at movement? I have seen a ton of them go from hearing to visual and come running at a glimpse of my moving decoys. I've also seen a bunch leave the country when I wasn't smart enough to break up my form, this when I know I didn't move and wasn't upwind.
Scent control? You bet!
We buy Phisohex by the quart and religiously scrub down before hunting. It kills bacteria that causes body odor. I'm still using my jungle juice(fern concentrate) and earth scent. I plan to give Leonards Mist a serious try.
This is what has worked for me for years. I am definitely not too old to learn so you guys keep the good tips coming.
Bud
Posts: 19 | From: OR | Registered: Jan 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted January 30, 2003 07:55 PM
quote:
Is a human form recognizable, instinctually?
Excellent question Leonard! What do I think….well honestly I don’t know? If a coyote has never seen a man before he therefore has no reason to fear him right? It stands to reason that if people shoot at coyotes and the coyotes learn what people look like they will become people shy. I don’t think that I can ever remember a coyote that I encountered in the field that wasn’t spooked at my approach and/or appearance once they got a good look at me.
If a coyote has never seen man before he has then of course never seen an animal of that size that walks on two legs so he may be spooked at such an odd sight. A coyote that has seen man and has not been harassed by him may keep their distance but will have little fear of them. I think the same may be true for any animal that has never seen man before.
Sight is one thing and smell is another…maybe? My dogs instantly showed very aggressive behavior towards the first coons that they saw. What does that mean? Did they instantly hate them because coons were foreign to them or was it out of instinct? I think a little of both. They are terriers so they have a natural aggressive behavior and when they were shown a strange animal they were aggressive towards it because it was unfamiliar to them. I played a little trick on my newest terrier “Hannibal” a couple of months ago and stuck a dead coon down an abandon badger hole to see if he would enter and engaged the coon. When he smelled the badger hole his hackles rose and he started growling and barking. After a couple of minutes he couldn’t help him self and entered the hole and bayed the coon for a while and them grabbed it and drug the coon out. The dog had never seen or smelled a coon before that day so what made him act the way he did?
Do I think that camo works? Yes, to an extent. Do you need it? Absolutely not! I have shot over 430 coyotes the last three fur seasons and have not worn a camo jacket, facemask or gloves for any of them. I have worn camo pants some times but I usually just wear my carharrts.
I think a coyote will spook from a hunters movement but will not completely bug out unless he recognizes you as a threat. I have moved on coyotes that were coming in and after they seen me they just picked up the pace. I have also moved on coyotes that were coming in only to have them stop and start to circle. And of course I have had them split town on me also. A coyotes reaction to a hunter all depends on WHAT they see HOW they perceive it and what they have been previously exposed too.
If I were to take an educated guess I would say that coyotes are naturally spooky of people because we walk on two legs. I also think that coyotes can recognize human form. If I have learned any thing it is to never skyline yourself when you are hunting. I don’t know if I would kill a coyote if I stood (motionless or not) on top of a hill and blew a call. Even if a coyote has never had a bad experience with a man or even seen a man I cant imagine a coyote bouncing up to me with a free meal in mind. I may be wrong?
Scarecrows will work to scare off crows because of their form don’t they? Granted they don’t work all the time but they will work especially if they have been shot or shot at by people before. I think that it all boils down to what the particular animal has been exposed to so you are better off by staying hid and shooting them the first chance you get.
I take no precautions at all about my sent for more reasons than I want to list here. We can all think of exceptions to the rule about weather a coyote will spook or not or what he may or may not do once he smells you but as far as I am concerned I wouldn’t bet a dime that a coyote wont spook when he recognizes you as a human whether it be by sight or by smell. It has happened to me waaaay to many times.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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WolverineAtWork
Knows what it's all about
Member # 23
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posted January 31, 2003 06:25 AM
hehe.. I love the evolution of threads..
I like to think of it from the coyotes perspective, if I saw a creature 3 times my height coming, I wouldn't hang around long enough to find out what it wants.
On the other hand, something that I can't make out entirely (because it's camoed, laying/sitting down, or otherwise obscured) would be another matter. If it moves or smells strange, I'm going to follow my gut, does my gut say food/curiosity or does my gut say danger?
But back to my question, I was more wondering what you wash your gear in etc. Because I don't know about you, but I can smell a fresh load of laundry a mile away.
Posts: 87 | From: AZ | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted January 31, 2003 07:55 AM
W@W
I use Sports Wash. It's scent free( for my benefit not the coyotes) and has no U.V. brightners. It does not fade out or bleach out camo as fast as some of the other detergents. I also hand wash my wool hunting sweaters with it.
Dennis
[ January 31, 2003, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Greenside ]
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted January 31, 2003 09:27 AM
Sorry WolverineAtwork, I didn’t mean to get off track but to answer your question I wash my hunting cloths in Tide or All or Cheer or what ever I am using at the time for the rest of my cloths. Like I said before, I don’t worry at all about my scent.
I always try and set up with the wind in my favor and hope for the best.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 31, 2003 09:41 AM
My wife is in charge of those washing details, and her tastes vary. Put another way, like Q; I don't worry about it.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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20t-n-t
Knows what it's all about
Member # 46
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posted January 31, 2003 10:39 AM
As I said before, you can't fool a coyotes nose, I do think you can confuse it for a seccond or 10 with a mist like Leonard's but What kind of soap you wash your huntin gear in realy won't matter, If he smells you, game over unless you hammer him before he does the 180 thing.
This is another point for makeing the right choice on setup. I like to be able to see my downwind area best that is where most yotes are going, when they respond to the call. Everyone has their own ideas on camo. I think that breaking up the human form is the key, the Gillie is my choice for doing that. I feel that it lets me get away with more movement than my old carharts. Some of the ground that I hunt is so flat with not much vegitation or fat fence posts to hide by. I can lay down flat on the ground and sure the yotes see something, but what they see is not a threat because it is smaller than them, but you try sitting up in your carharts in a weat field where there ain't nothing to hide your outline and see the reaction of an incomming yote.
Camo or carharts, rifle or shotgun, single or a team, all these things are a matter of choice but you can't fool a coyotes nose. you have to realise this and hunt smarter. You can't out hunt a coyote, you have to outsmart him.
thats my thoughts
Slydog
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Teach a kid to hunt and fish and feed them for a lifetime......
Posts: 245 | From: Boise Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted January 31, 2003 01:51 PM
2ot-n-t,There has been many times I have sat in an open grassy field where the grass is only a few inches high with just my carharts on,and I've called quite a few coyotes in this way.Regardless of the color of camo or type being used,in the open from a distance you look like a big blob anyway,that includes carharts.Like I said before I don't discredit anyone for using camo it's personal choice.Believe me if I thought for one minute that by not wearing camo I was costing myself Coyotes I would wear it everytime I went out.But I don't think it is neccessary from my experience.Like Q and Leonard I don't worry about scent either I think I use either Tide or All too. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) GOOD HUNTING Chad...
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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