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Author
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Topic: vehicle repair!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 14, 2012 12:47 PM
My "check engine" light came on and because I am also due for a major tune up at 105,000 miles.
Well, the check engine light is an oxygen sensor, I had one replaced about 6 months ago. There are four, and this one is $500. Replacing the spark plugs, another eye opener, a set of eight, $400! This tune up is going to be over $1200.
Progress.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Patterson
19.6 miles down the Yellow Brick Road from THE EMERALD CITY
Member # 3304
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posted June 14, 2012 01:36 PM
Any way you can do it yourself?? I absolutely refuse to let stealerships touch my truck. Buying your parts some where else and then installing yourself will usually cut the cost at least in half and most times by 3/4. Im sure you knew that though.
I just like to work on my own rigs. Figured id throw that out there as those prices are rediculous.
Posts: 236 | From: Kansas | Registered: Nov 2008
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 14, 2012 02:24 PM
Just in general, they do everything possible to discourage the shade tree mechanic.
My son spent four nights, after work replacing a radiator hose on a fucking Ford. It had multiple ports and required removing the power steering pump and a bunch of other stuff. A heater hose at Auto Zone, $150.
These vehicles are not user friendly and where are you going to get the diagnostics?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted June 14, 2012 05:43 PM
Working on cars and trucks is a whole lot of fun. I can't wait to get out of this fucking business. My wife's I-30 Infinity has hydralic computer controlled fucking motor mounts that cost $250.00 each. I swear these engineers do this stuff to generate more engineering work for themselves. Toyota usually does a nice job but even they have some very shitty ideas like automatic transmissions without dipsticks, mechanical valves that are next to impossible to adjust and overly complicated evap emission systems. It can take longer to replace the head on a 4 cylinder car than it takes to replace the engine. They seldom use gaskets today. Instead they use silicone which is great when everything is new and squeaky clean. The problem with silicon is the parts have to be very clean with no oil or gas to get a good seal. Try doing that on an engine or transmission that has been run. You can easily spend a day waiting for the dripping to slow down so you can reassemble something. I like to take such jobs apart on Friday and assemble on Monday.
For a pro in the business the bare minimum scanner one needs is a snap on solus pro for around 4k. It will also cost you about a grand a year to keep it updated. You will also need a snap on vantage pro for scoping parts to pin point your diagnostics. The vantage pro can only record two channels at a time. Sometimes you need four so you can step up to the snap on versus at over 8k. Another good option is a pico scope. There four channel scope is only about 4k but you also need a laptop to run it. Now if you need to flash a computer then forget snapon because you will need oem scanners. One for each car line. They too cost about a grand a year to update plus they become outdated every 8-10 years. When it comes to sensors, injectors or anything that deals with the Powertrain Control Module, I like to go with dealer parts only. You get what you pay for. The damn injectors ford is using on their ecoboost engines are almost a grand per injector. That is the cost of direct injection my friends.
The tooling, technology, information and knowledge needed today are getting out of hand. I really don't know what I will be driving in my golden years because they all suck IMHO.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 14, 2012 06:34 PM
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And, I have done plenty of my own repairs, when it was somewhat possible. What a pleasure it is to look under the hood of my '74Dodge and know exactly what everything is and what it's for.
Good hunting. LB
PS Jr. it wasn't the power steering pump, which he SHOULD have removed. It was the exhaust manifold.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted June 14, 2012 07:37 PM
My 2000 GMC is tipping 145k and the little shit is going here and there. The ABS and Parking Brake lights are on and off, which indicates that the ABS system is offline. Not a problem for me and I think I'm just gonna pop the bulbs out and ignore them. I don't use the parking brake and I learned to drive without stutter brakes and, as a hunting riug, would rather not have them anyway. Nothing worse than having a coyote off the starboard side, hitting the brakes, and taking 300 yards to ease to a nice, safe stop. Screw that.
Check Engine Soon light has been on for two years, ever since I had to drive it home with the no. 2 coil pack burned out. Seventy-five miles of that burnt the cat to hell. Fixed it with a piece of black electrical tape. Might fix the other two lights the same way.
Last night, I was getting into the truck after doing some work out and about and the frame of the seat broke. Goddamit! Monday, I have to take it to a buddy who runs a shop for auto upholstery and we're gonna tear it out, take it apart and weld it back better than before.
The numbers y'all are saying just turn me off to the idea of buying anything newer. Those things are fine as long as you have a warranty, but who can afford that kind of expense?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted June 15, 2012 08:04 AM
With the 53mpg Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) the anointed one has decreed it will get a lot more expensive to drive a car in the near future. When a hybrid is on its 2nd or 3rd owner do you think a middle class school teacher can afford to lay out two or three grand to replace the batteries after the warranty is up. I doubt it. This decree is why Ford has gone to direct fuel injection which has fuel injectors costing $900.00 each. All of the manufacturers are looking at some real exotic technologies to achieve the CAFE decree. Some are looking at shooting the injected fuel directly over the plugs to help ignite the leaner mixtures. Honda is looking at a small combustion chamber that is a richer spark ignited chamber that generates a flame to ignite the main combustion chamber that is running at much leaner mixtures such as 50 parts air to one part fuel. Does anyone out there really believe the chosen one cares about the middle class?
I will really miss the old push rod engines when they are all gone. Right now I believe Chevy is the last one using this old technology. Everyone else has gone to overhead cam designs which really make rebuilding a whole lot more difficult. You warp a head on say a 350 chevy, you just take it off and have it milled and your done. If you have an overhead cam engine, they have to bolt the head down to a large strong block, heat it up to remove most of the warpage. Then they can mill it. Otherwise the cam journals are not lined up and it will break the cam. Plus these overhead cam engines make head removal a whole lot more difficult because you have to deal with the timing chain and glued/silicone together engines/timing chain covers.
When I finally go to overhead cam, I will always use a synthetic oil. At least I’ll do everything I can to avoid trouble. And speak of trouble, I had a Nissan titan come in where the front palladium bed cam apart and clogged the rear rhodeim(SP?) bed up completely. The engine was destroyed because the back pressure caused the palladium bed membrane to also get into the two rear cylinders. The moral of the story is if your engine has cats real close to the exhaust manifold, take care of any and all misfires immediately. This guy drove it for quite a while with a miss. They are putting the cats closer to the engine because they heat up quicker which makes them work better.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1937 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 15, 2012 09:39 AM
Oh, thanks. That's what I'm driving, a Titan.
At the original selling price, these things should last forever. This truck cost twice as much as my first house. Yeah, Obama and the rest of the enviro nazi's don't know when to quit. How do these Mexicans get away with buying disposable cars and junking them and buying another beater? Something ain't right.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted June 15, 2012 11:09 AM
Leonard, I did my plugs @ 100K on my Toyota a few years back. One was a little stubborn to come out, but other than that, it was an easy job.
@ 115K, I had my mechanic buddy replace the timing belt, water pump & all the associated pulleys & coolant hoses. That should have been done even before 100K, but I kept putting it off. Eventually, I bought all OEM parts online, then paid my buddy for his time. Came out to 1/3 what a dealer would have charged!
Since then, I've dealt with "check engine" light BS, and the code pointed to an o2 sensor. Changed it out, and the code came up for the other one. Like a Jenga tower, wound up I replaced all four O2 sensors, and both CATS myself. And one CAT was fucked right from the factory, so that had to go back on warranty (not fun). New CAT was OK...
Instead of replacing the MAF sensor, I just cleaned the thin wire sensor with brake cleaner. That worked well enough...
After all that nonsense, I cleared the engine codes with a plug&play unit & have been good to go! But I shudder to think about standing with my rubber band open at the dealer service center...YIKES!!!
I dont' know much at all about the Nissan motor in your rig, but if they are anything like the aluminum block 4.7L UZ interference motor in my Toyo, if will have a timing BELT instead of a chain. If that is the case, you will definitely want to replace the timing BELT real soon, because it it stretches or breaks, your whole top end could get fawked along with it! Valves hitting pistons ain't good!!!
And do the water pump while it's exposed during the timing belt job...
All this shit is still a heckouvalot cheaper than a new rig! My Toyo will turn 162K before I get home from work this evening...
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 15, 2012 11:52 AM
I really don't know if I have a timing belt or a chain? But, when they recommend a service, I do it. But, this is a kind of high performance 5.6L V8 so I would be surprised if it has a belt? I could be wrong?
Replacing these spark plugs involved a lot of disassembly, which kind of reminds me of a 454 Chevy which is ridiculous to get at, on a couple way in the back. Only, this is a lot more involved, which is not to say better. It's just a lot more complicated.
As far as sitting around twiddling my thumbs, they give me a ride home and come get me when it's ready. But the waiting area has a big TV newspapers, coffee and pastries, even a popcorn machine. But, I would rather be home for seven hours, which was how long it took to do the work.
This dealership is first class, they host a big dinner once a month for new buyers, and to explain their services, including the first three oil changes, which are free. Sometimes, they will wash my truck and when I had the brush guard installed, they rented a car for me, free of charge. They do other stuff without charge, which I think is not common.
Good hunting. LB
edit: I called Nissan. That engine has a timing chain. Of course, I have replaced timing chains before, they also get loose and break and jump a tooth.
[ June 15, 2012, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted June 15, 2012 12:43 PM
Roger that.
All those 'niceties' a dealer offers is more than covered by the ridiculous prices they charge. At least they're kind enough to offer a reacharound during the buttraping!
So what's the maintenance interval on the timing chain?
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 15, 2012 01:56 PM
I'd have to call about that interval on the timing chain, don't know? But when it stretches, I'm sure the computer will light up an icon telling me to check something, which is shorthand for "bring it in." Yeah, that reach around really makes the whole experience more pleasurable. I just decided, when I bought this thing that it was a lot more hi tech than I could handle so it has been baby'ed by the dealership from day one. They know me.
You know, one time, just as I was leaving for the world hunt, my radiator started leaking. This was about 8 o'clock at night. I called Empire Nissan and they said to bring it in.
They actually had a radiator but it was for another work order but they gave it to me anyway. I got out of there a little after midnight. Under the seven year warranty, no charge. Reach around.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: I remember on the Pontiac, when I replaced the timing chain, I installed the crankshaft seal backwards. Totally fucked it up. That was a complete disassembly of the front end to get at it and of course, I had put it back together already. Good training, I did it over in half the time!
[ June 15, 2012, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Patterson
19.6 miles down the Yellow Brick Road from THE EMERALD CITY
Member # 3304
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posted June 15, 2012 02:31 PM
I guess I should have specified on my earlier post about what I drive/maintain. As well as asked what kind of vehicle you were talking about Leonard.
Ive been a dodge with a cummins for the last 11 years. Currently in an 06. Its pretty easy to work on most anything on a dodge. I was mostly refering to my experience of first getting an estimate of what it would cost to replace it, then getting an estimate on just parts, and then going out and finding my own aftermarket parts.
Ive replaced injectors, map sensors and various other components. Injectors were a pain but the price of them alone is rediculous not to mention adding the labor on top of it. Ive also replaced ujoint, ball joints, wheel bearings etc. Thats a little more caveman stuff vs the motor work you speak of.
I agree with AZ...new vehicle suck. I cringe when I look under someones hood and cant even fit my arm next to the block. The electronics and sensors are getting to be a bit crazy.
edit: one nice thing with my dodge when I have an engine light is that I can turn the key on and off three times and in the digital odometer display it will tell me any codes. I then take those codes to the internet and find a list of codes and see whats wrong. Its pretty handy not having to get it scanned to see the problem. The light clears itself after 50 starts or something like that once you fix the problem.
[ June 15, 2012, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Patterson ]
Posts: 236 | From: Kansas | Registered: Nov 2008
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MI VHNTR
I'm not shaving 'til Obama's gone!
Member # 3370
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posted June 15, 2012 06:09 PM
I bought an OBD2 code scanner years back. IIRC, it was under $100 at the time. It came with a manual for use and code descriptions, computer cable and access to the company website for any code problems. The reader displays any trouble codes and it clears the CHECK ENGINE light in a second or two.
I've cleared the codes on quite a few different cars/trucks for friends that didn't want to get ripped off at the dealer.
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The Second Amendment isn't about Hunting. It's about Freedom.
MAGA
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted June 16, 2012 06:21 AM
leonard: you will probably never have to replace the timing chain on the titan. It is rare for them to go bad these days. I would be surprised if one did go out and it had less than 300k on the odometer. Also, the fact that your getting a tune up as prescribed by the manual means you probably will never have a missfire. Just get it fixed ASAP if one does occur. Misfires will turn on the check engine light and give a code P0300-P0308 on a V8. Titans are good trucks.
Knockemdown: would you please provide the link for OEM toyota parts.
The one thing everyone can do is keep records of what was done and when it was done. Follow the owners manual's recommended service schedules. So many shops including dealerships will oversell service work. I do recommend servicing the cooling system more that once every 150k/7years for those of us that live in the desert. I like to do a simple drain and refill every other year myself. Also, very few cars, maybe two or three, require a brake fluid flush in the service manual and no car recommends a power steering flush. These flushes are designed to flush your wallet.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1937 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 16, 2012 10:15 AM
That's one thing about the place where I bought the truck. They have extensive records going back to day one. When I was there just before leaving for Texas, a few months ago, I inquired about the 100,000 mile tune up, might as well get it over with and they said no. It's not due until 105,000, wait. Okay, they had their chance and declined.
Yes, I think, over all, it has been a good truck. In fact, probably the best truck I have ever owned. And, you know it was designed in Southern California and built in (?) Mississippi.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted June 16, 2012 10:49 AM
I used to do most of the work on my trucks and as I updated from every other year noticed I was getting a good collection of special tools that where needed to do certain jobs or would start a job and find out I did'nt have the right tool and would have to stop work till I got one from the auto store. Another issue was replacement parts some vehicles used one type of part or another and nine times out of ten I usuually got the wrong one and had to go back to the store and get the right one..
Finally had enough and I let the dealer-ship handle most repairs, they know whats needs fixing and it dose'nt take them as long to get it done.
My pickup is used for work and for hunting and has 164,000 miles on it, normaly don't keep them this long but want to see how far I can get with this one..
My dealer-ship knows how important it is for me to have my truck and get it fixed as soon as possable and usually get me in right away and give me a loaner to use at no charge..
Last year I was working out of the area and had a issue with the truck so I took it to another dealership, the bastards charged me 400.00 more than what my primary dealer-ship would charge...
Won't be going there anymore...
A dealer-ship can be spendy but atleast I know the work was done right and I don't have to worry about it when out of town..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
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posted June 16, 2012 06:50 PM
Just a little comment on the dealership/stealership thing.
The water pump on my Duramax went while back. Looked it up online and it called for 8 hours of shop time. Did a little further research and found guys saying it doesn't take even close to that long, but doing it in the driveway wasn't advised unless you had the special tools needed. I'm lucky that I have a friend who is the service manager for a local GM dealer, and he arranged the parts for me at his price (you don't EVEN want to know the markup). Another fella I know spins wrenches at a repair shop but does side work on weekends. Took the truck and the parts to him one Saturday and picked it up less than 3 hours later. Cost of the whole job (including parts) was about what the parts would have been from Mr Goodwrench. Fuck 'em!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted June 16, 2012 07:38 PM
sure you can always find someone cheaper. Wonder why some can keep the repair costs so low.. Perhaps they don't have a heated shop or large inventory of parts and tools or provide health insurance or a retirement plan. You'd think if you bought a truck from them all repair costs should be for free...LOL
Next thing you know you no longer have a dealer-ship in town or like in some areas you have to travel a long distance to find a dealer-ship or even a good repair shop.
I've always had a likeing for a Toyota, problem with them is I have to drive over 60 miles just to find a dealer-ship and just as many miles for any warrenty work or non-warrenty repairs....
[ June 16, 2012, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted June 16, 2012 08:04 PM
You just keep grinning and paying for all those perks, and a whole lot more, Tim. Thanks to your president and his new amnesty decree, pretty soon your company will be hiring excavator operators for $16 an hour just like they do here. Nobody LOST money on my deal.
The dealerships price that stuff so they can hose the insurance companies and manufacturers for warranty work, and to be quite honest, if I don't have to write a check, I could care less how much it costs. But, just who do you think pays for it in the end regardless?
Must be nice to live in your world.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 16, 2012 09:55 PM
quote:
I'm lucky that I have a friend who is the service manager for a local GM dealer,
That's the difference, and yes, you are lucky.
This is a true story. My father-in-law worked for a big outfit, Braun Chemical. He told my wife that he could buy fifty pound bags of any detergent on the market for $11. Recognizing a good deal she told neighbors and friends and pretty soon, ol' George was stacking those bags in our garage every week and Nanc wasn't making a dime on the transactions but after several months, George got called in and they told him he was buying too much soap. End of the Goose That Laid the Golden Egg. They were worried about resale and sales tax and if George was marketing the soap at below wholesale prices, etc. Good deal for George, he was getting too old to be humping five hundred pounds of detergent every week anyway.
Story #2
I worked for Wilson Meatpacking for about six years when my kid was playing Little League. They had a company store and sold end cutting of cold cuts and bacon, broken weenies, stuff like that for about ten cents on the dollar. It got so popular that employees were buying baloney and olive loaf for all their friends and relatives. It was in very short supply. Soooo. Suddenly, the girls operating the Toby Slicers were making more scrap, too many or too few slices for a 6 Ounce package. Perfectly good weenies were going out for scrap, same with end cuts on bacon and even the pressed ham loafs; good stuff but not cut perfectly and therefore unsaleable.
At first, they said only supervisors could buy at the company store and now they were going to the store with shopping lists for everybody in the department. That actually made it worse, how come Molly got ten pounds of baloney and Maria got none? It was crazy, and completely out of hand.
Solution, they got rid of the meat counter and began selling all scrap as hog food, some cattle feed, for (like) $50 a 1000 pound tub. And, you know, processed meats are very expensive, on a pound per pound basis, even if it's butt ends or thicker than normal. It always takes a few trials to get the slice right for the check weighers, but not 8 or 10. People just can't handle a good thing.
What was my point? I forgot?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted June 16, 2012 10:36 PM
Sorry Jimmy but it was'nt my president that caused all this mess. It was caused long before him by all the congressmen and senators ect. you and your generation put into office..
It also dosen't matter who you put in office the next time around since he will be stuck with the same playing cards... Keep dreaming as thats all you or anyone else can do about it..
Speaking of cheap labor, who in the hell started that??? Cali.,AZ., N.M., to name a few..
I don't see that happening up here with my job as the state controls the wages for most jobs and a contractor is'nt going to put just anyone in a machine worth a half million or more..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted June 16, 2012 11:00 PM
Some just don't get it and never will and I refuse to waste any effort trying to get the blinders off.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted June 18, 2012 04:45 AM
AZnative: OEM Toyota parts
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted June 18, 2012 05:00 AM
My boss told me a lone time ago "oil & filters are cheap insurance" and that has stuck with me. Needless to say, we're vigilant (anal) about PM on the boats, on all the machines here at the shop. That goes for our own trucks, too...
BTW, I just drained/filled my power steering fluid in the truck for the first time (155K), and I did notice a slightly smoother feel to the wheel afterward.
Next up is to change the oil in the front transfer case & rear differential again (every 60K). And I always use synthetic 5w30 in the motor.
Why? cuz its cheap insurance ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I can undertand going to the dealership if you've got a solid relationship built upon trust. Bottom line is, if I can possibly do the work myself, I'm gonna do it!
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