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Author
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Topic: Lots of light?
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JeremyKS
Knows what it's all about
Member # 736
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posted January 15, 2012 02:01 PM
I'm not a night hunter but have read you guys talking about using a low intensity light while scanning but burning them when you go to shoot. Check out this video and tell me what you think? They got quite the light setup for their camera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3gcqnFeGcU&feature=youtu.be
Posts: 369 | From: Texas panhandle | Registered: Nov 2005
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Chris S
"SPECIAL ACCOUNT" HM's Facebook page moderator & runs with scissors
Member # 3888
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posted January 15, 2012 02:35 PM
I watched the original Carnivore where they highlighted these guys. I was amazed at the amount of light they used. In the original show they wouldn't show the light setup and I suspected they used a light from an airplane or stage lights. The entire countryside is lit up. I suppose if you use a HUGE swath of light pointed in the direction of a field it differs from a small intensity light pointed directly into their eyes.
In essence these guys are creating a couple hundred yards of their own personal daylight.
Edit: Plus, that amount of light makes it possible to get great "night" video.
[ January 15, 2012, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Chris S ]
Posts: 534 | From: Oakland County, MI USA Earth | Registered: Jul 2011
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted January 19, 2012 11:05 AM
I wonder how much battery they have powering all of those lights. Stupid Az Game and Fish requires us to use only as much light as we can carry, battery weight included.
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Posts: 1937 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 19, 2012 12:17 PM
I would like to see the origin of that requirement, hand carry your light and battery? Who decided that, and why? There are so many "regulation writers" that cannot justify what they force others to abide by.
As for those Texas boys that make videos; they use white light in their filming for one reason. It makes better footage. When I asked them about it, they claimed that white or red didn't seem to make any difference. Well, there you go, over forty years in this game and I don't know what's going on.
You can get away with a lot, depending on how pressured the animals are, and the skill in handling the light. But, there is no question that red is more better. At least in my world, on this planet.
With that bank of lights in the video above, a coyote is not going to hang around for very long, even in Mexico. When hunting coyotes, use as little illumination as possible.
Good hunting. LB
edit: I just looked at the video again and read the comments:
quote:
Great teaser. I'm looking forward to seeing the show. Guess you blow out of the water the idea you have to use red or green lens / LED to be successful! Gota love the camera set up.
[ January 19, 2012, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Chris S
"SPECIAL ACCOUNT" HM's Facebook page moderator & runs with scissors
Member # 3888
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posted January 19, 2012 02:07 PM
Would I try this method? Yes.
Can I try? No.
You can't hunt from a vehicle, plus, you HAVE to use a handheld light in MI.
I would love to try some outlandish things but am limited to somewhat lame laws.
Shining a direct focused beam directly into the eyes of the animal will most often spook it. But these guys aren't doing that with this thing. If they did, the animals would likely turn themselves inside out heading the other way. It's also quite possible that some animals see the light and don't even approach. We won't see that though. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 534 | From: Oakland County, MI USA Earth | Registered: Jul 2011
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 19, 2012 03:45 PM
Don't go down that path, smithers. White light is always liable to spook a coyote, including the one's you don't see. Repeat after me; use a red light and everything will be wonderful. When you learn what you are doing, have a clue about handling coyotes, then you can use a white light. On especially dumb coyotes in special applications, behind locked gates, etc. For the rest of us mere mortals, a red light is the best way to go, but an amber light would be the next best, if your purpose is to call and kill coyotes.
When filming these things, they have other considerations, and most likely are dealing with rather tame coyotes? Don't be fooled, like the guy in the comments below the video. This jerk will most likely believe anything, since he most likely hasn't done it?
I don't want to hear any crap about calling animals under klieg lights. That is misinformation for the naive reader to swallow. Can I do it? Yes, but on the other hand, I know what I am doing and I would only resort to it if I had no choice.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Chris Robinson
PAKMAN
Member # 3659
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posted July 27, 2012 11:41 AM
Being limited to not only the effective killing range of a filtered spot light, but also the ethical killing range of those same lights is a major disadvantage. You guys only see the footage after the animal has committed and started toward the call and the lights have been cranked up. The part before all of that, is the part that guys who have been trained that the only way to go at night is "RED" usually over look cause they don't want to admit there are "other, possibly more effective ways to kill coyotes at night". That part entails having enough light just to be able to see an animals eyes with the naked eye and nothing more. Once we've established the attitude of each individual animal, thats what determines how much light goes on each individual animal. The best part is, even if they won't commit, 20 yards or 300 yards, we still have enough light power to light those animals up and get them killed. Your red light won't and can't allow anyone anyone "I don't care who you are" to ethically take a shot at an animals at those distances unless you are shooting at eyes, and we all know what happens when you do that. For the guys who say we don't shine all 60 million candlepower directly into their eyes, they honestly don't have a clue what they are talking about cause we do on every single one (once they commit). As for us hunting those unpressured "Texas" coyotes, the coyotes in our area are probably in fact some of the most pressured coyotes in the state and are hunted in areas with a ton of calling pressure, so thats not how we do what we do. The bottom line is, no one has ever been able to explain to me the reason "why" you have to have a red spotlight with out just telling me either (well they can't see red, or thats whats always been done). That wasn't enough for us and as a result, it opened up an entire new world of night hunting that many guys will never get to experience unless they can get past what we consider to be nothing more than a tradition. I don't care what part of the country you live in, you do not have to have a red light to kill coyotes at night if you know how to use a dimmer and any way you cut it, the footage doesn't lie. What you see is what is actually happening and its also unfortunately goes completely against the grain to what has always been preached about night hunting and as a result its hard for some guys to get their head around what they are seeing. Watch the second episode of Carnivore on saturday August 11th and you guys will get to see more of the same as well as our light system itself. Just cause something has been a certain way for several years, doesn't mean its the "only" way to efficiently kill predators on a regular basis at night. It doesn't mean using a red light is wrong either, just not the only way. Our footage proves that. Take care Chris
[ July 27, 2012, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Chris Robinson ]
Posts: 9 | From: Sherman, Tx | Registered: Sep 2010
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Chris S
"SPECIAL ACCOUNT" HM's Facebook page moderator & runs with scissors
Member # 3888
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posted August 15, 2012 05:38 AM
Chris, every coyote you call commits and every coyote that you shine a direct focused beam into their eyes comes right in? You've NEVER had one freak out at the lights as they approached?
I've shined a much less powerful light into the eyes of a predator and had them spook. Most of us speak from experience and have had more than one animal turn tail and run at the sight of a bright light.
Posts: 534 | From: Oakland County, MI USA Earth | Registered: Jul 2011
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted August 15, 2012 08:55 AM
Chris S, I have hunted some with Chris R in both North Texas and far West Texas.
Sure some coyotes spook as soon as you pick up eyes. Just like some coyotes head straight for the downwind at night and there is little you can do about it.
Others don't. Using the dimmer with just enough light to pickup eyes and increase it as the animal comes in to get it all on film,
seemed to work pretty good in my limited experience.
Stay after them
Kelly
[ August 15, 2012, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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Chris Robinson
PAKMAN
Member # 3659
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posted August 15, 2012 11:19 AM
Chris, if you are having animals spook on a consistent basis when you hit them with a light, I don't think the problem is your light nor the color of it. We found that when hunting in high pressured areas, we had just as many coyotes hang up with a red light as we do with a white light. It actually seems our white light with a dimmer bothers less coyotes on average due to the fact that we can actually put less light on the animal than we did when we where using filters. A filter will only decrease the "intensity" of your light by maybe 50 percent as apposed having complete control over how much light you decide to use when shining. Just cause your light may be red doesn't mean it's easier for them to look at. You could be shining a 100 million candlepower white light and still make it easier for them to look at when you initially hit them with it compared to a standard filtered light, "as long as you use a dimmer". We have found that almost every coyotes that is bothered by a light, it is usually the second we hit them with a very dimm hand held spotlight before the big lights ever come on. That tells me that those animals may have seen a light before and would sure enough spook from an even brighter red spotlight. Those are the animals I would much rather have ample light to light them up and get them out of the population rather than just educate them even further cause your lights simply won't get out there far enough to light them up and get them killed.
Posts: 9 | From: Sherman, Tx | Registered: Sep 2010
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Chris Robinson
PAKMAN
Member # 3659
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posted August 15, 2012 11:38 AM
I just re read your post and don't think I fully answered your question Chris s. The answer to your question about us "Never" having an animal spook from us shining a light directly on them, the best way I can answer your question is, we " NEVER" halo an animal ever. There is no need to when using a dimmer. You are asking that question from a guy who has experience hunting with a traditional spotlight that has two distinct beams or intinsities of light. That all completely changes when you are running the dimmer in the mix. I would be willing to bet that the main beam of our 5 million candlepower hand held spotlight ran the way we run it is less actual light being projected than the halo of the spotlight you are using. If not less, very close! My opinion is if the animals you are having spook, don't spook when you initially hit them with your light but when you hit after that with the main beam, there may be too much difference intensity wise between the two beams. With the dimmer, there is a gradual adjustment made as the brightness of our lights change making it much less noticeable from the animals perspective. Kinda like boiling a frog. You simply can't do that without the dimmer.
Posts: 9 | From: Sherman, Tx | Registered: Sep 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 15, 2012 02:24 PM
I have been reading here, and noting opinion, and since there is nothing new to hunting coyotes at night that has not been discovered decades ago, I will just say that some things work better than others.
A white light with a dimmer/rheostat was one of the first ideas we tried back in the late sixties and early seventies. Nothing wrong with that setup....depending on how it's done because some require a big amperage current reducer and others use an electronic potentiometer in line with the off/on switch which are much lighter. But both work, even if the rheostat is mounted close by, not on the spotlight itself.
In the progression of night hunting development, after dimmers of various sorts, the next big deal was an amber light. I use various types and combinations of white and amber for many years in open terrain and as long as a guy knows how to work a coyote, these are very good lights.
I started hunting a lot more brushy areas at one point and found that a red lens created far less spooky shadows than a white light with a dimmer or an amber fog, which is already of less intensity being just 55 Watt, but there is the added advantage of the wide beam and the ability to cover a whole lot more area with gentle non spooky movements than a spotlight that has been choked down with a dimmer pot.
The reason is that you still have that tight pencil beam and it requires you to move the light up and down to get it into washes and up in the buttes and to cover everything adequately, you have to be busy and yet, it takes at least twice as long to make a 360˚ than when using a wide fog lamp with (if I am not mistaken?) has a beam width of 120˚. This makes for a very pleasant light to hunt with and by tinting it with red Dykem, this makes it much more effective and the animals approach very close, they tend to come right out of the brush where you can usually get a clear shot.
So, if the message being conveyed, (above) is white light and a dimmer switch, we need to understand that this has been around for at least 40+ years and while you can take coyotes with this method, there is different apparatus that has also been around for decades that works just as well and in some cases, much better.
I have used all of it and I think that I have a fair understanding of what works and what does not. Now, for me there are two types of hunting lights that are best for all around hunting in a wide range of areas, open, flat, hilly and brushy.
One is a flipper light which has a colored lens over a white or amber light. The lens is either red or amber depending on if the main light is amber or white but suffice to say there are a number of ways to configure this type of light to suit your personal preference. But, it must have a tight pencil beam for lighting up a target at a couple hundred yards, and in some places, every shot you get will be 200 yards, So, this means, in tight cover, you have a lot of moving around of the light and it takes longer to make a 360˚ sweep. This means, a coyote can be in your lap behind you when you are pointed in the opposite direction.
However, a flipper light is a very good solution and has killed a lot of coyotes. Mostly employed by California hunters who invented them and they have been used for well over thirty years all over the west.
The other light, and one that I prefer is the superposed, two bulbs mounted and calibrated to the exact same spot. I use a tight pencil beam on the lower light and a wide, red tinted fog light on the upper light. The key to this system is the toggle switch. It is best employed with a center off, double throw with one light being controlled by one "on" and the other on which turns on the spotlight, full force. Sometimes, I use Dykem on both the spot and the fog light and other times just red tint on the fog.
The superposed can do it all, no handicaps at all, unless your construction technique doesn't employ the lightest materials and clever design. The one I prefer is just as light as any 6" spotlight with a dimmer.
Anyway, besides that there are other innovations used on these lights, like being wired to the front dash to signal the driver to stop or move, back up and other things like turn here or be ready to stop because there is an animal up ahead. Many signals can be employed with pushbuttons mounted right on the handle of the light and this allows instant communication with the driver for any number of reasons.
I have seen many different lights, all custom made by individuals to suit their particular needs. No two are alike but they all provide a lot more versatility than a simple spotlight with a dimmer pot. Is it necessary? Maybe not, but these features have undeniable advantages. And, people out here go to a lot of trouble to build these advantages into a custom light.
I have built more lights than I can remember. Some work better than others but I am fairly sure that most people think it over and decide that the only way they are going to get what they want is to build it themselves.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Chris Robinson
PAKMAN
Member # 3659
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posted August 15, 2012 09:40 PM
Good point Leonard. Different strokes for different folks. We are very aware that the methods we use for night hunting has been around for years, even before red became popular. Our stance on the subject is just as you stated, there are many different methods to kill coyotes at night, including other than the one we use. We have found that we kill the most animals with this method cause we have the ability to see them the best when we need to. A light with a flipper will perform the exact same way, you just get from A to B a little different. The whole concept is basicly not limiting yourself to the max light output you can achieve with a simple light and filter. That style of hunting kills a ton of animals each year and its by no means wrong, but for "us", hunting the type of country we hunt, it has its weaknesses. Everything we have done with the lighting we use was done in the pursuit to get better and better footage and in doing so, we have increased the amount of light we have access to each year. At some point, i am sure there is a point at which we will have access to too much light that it will start to bother "committed" animals, unfortunately at this point we have not reached it yet. Is it a litlle rediculous? For the guy just wanting to go out and kill coyotes and not film, yes. Does it prove that certain animals, once committed will take an extreme amount of light? Yes. Is it the only way to hunt at night? Not hardly. Can you see their ass better when it comes time to kill them. Absolutely! Hope this makes sense. Take care Chris
Posts: 9 | From: Sherman, Tx | Registered: Sep 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 16, 2012 06:47 AM
Well Chris, what I think is important to note is that what you do is video hunting coyotes at night and use a bunch of light. I don't think you mean to say that all those lights make for more coyotes than otherwise? It's just that it can be done with enough light for filming.
Those other guys that film in west Texas don't use red either and it's strictly because they get better footage with the white light and that's their prime motivation.
Good hunting. Lima Bravo
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Chris S
"SPECIAL ACCOUNT" HM's Facebook page moderator & runs with scissors
Member # 3888
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posted August 16, 2012 10:05 AM
I don't think I've ever seen anyone say you CAN'T use white light, red light, amber, green etc. I've seen many ppl say they PREFER to use a certain lens or 'in their opinion or experience, would advise using' a certain lens or certain power light. Whatever suits your style and ability.
Posts: 534 | From: Oakland County, MI USA Earth | Registered: Jul 2011
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