The New Huntmastersbbs!: Scanning light vs. shooting light

This is topic Scanning light vs. shooting light in forum Night forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.

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Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on February 07, 2011, 06:04 PM:

Do you guys who hunt at night use the same light for scanning and shooting? If so how do you do it if hunting alone. If you use separate lights how do you use them and which lights do you prefer?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 07, 2011, 06:41 PM:

Read this first: http://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000003

then this: http://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000049

[ February 07, 2011, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 07, 2011, 06:49 PM:

Actually, I hate it when someone offers a link instead of a polite and informed reply. But, there is much to consider and if you spend all day reading the three pages in this forum, you should have a very good idea of how to begin hunting at night.

After you look over the information, which, as far as I know, a lot of it is available nowhere else, then go ahead and ask specific questions. I will do the best I can to answer.

Good hunting. LB

edit: go to "my profile" and update your preferences to "show all topics" instead of last 100 days or last year.

[ February 07, 2011, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on February 07, 2011, 08:02 PM:

Ah, thank you for the info LB. I gleaned a lot from the techniques. You are right in that it makes it more successful with two men. Also nice thoughts on how to handle and scan with the light and how to keep from spooking game. The technology in the field of lighting has come a long way in the last few years. With the new LED lights and such I would like someones suggestions as to what they are using and having luck with. Do they like a separate light for scanning and a scope mounted LED for shooting. Just some questions for the curious. Thanks.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 07, 2011, 08:23 PM:

I'm not at all crazy about LED as a hunting light.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on February 07, 2011, 08:35 PM:

You've used the LED lights then?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 08, 2011, 10:06 AM:

No, just seen them turned on. I can't take it seriously enough to actually "use" one..... and the system isn't broke so why fix it?

I think, just starting out, one should approach this thing from the standpoint of what others are using and what works. There is plenty of time to download an app for your iphone once the basics are mastered. LB

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 08, 2011, 03:13 PM:

I`ve never been able to get a focused beam of any sort from an LED, but then again I have only seen and messed with a couple of them so I dont have extensive experience.

For hunting alone a scope mounted light works although night hunting by yourself is somewhat taxing & unproductive, its still fun. Night hunting with a partner is the only way to go.

Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on February 08, 2011, 03:27 PM:

quote:
No, just seen them turned on. I can't take it seriously enough to actually "use" one..... and the system isn't broke so why fix it?

I would certainly agree from my experience, as well... but, I've also seen how small and low battery drain some LED units are. On a hunting vehicle a halogen or arc light are far superior.

In a portable unit a 5watt led will last all night and then some which can make them better, especially in a gun mounted light. Where you hunt is also something to consider. In the desert I don't know that an LED will have the spread and coverage needed. Where I hunt in a more farm country situation a big halogen light will get you thrown off the land!

Lots of things to consider including overall cost/versus effective use. I also believe everyone will have their own views after trying different ways and equipment.

Nikonut

Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on February 08, 2011, 07:13 PM:

The hunting would not be done from a vehicle. I would probably be alone. Would I be able to man 2 lights-one for scanning and one scope mounted for the shot? Would a scope mounted light used for scanning spook them with too much movement?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 08, 2011, 08:11 PM:

In the articles I referred you to, there is adequate discussion about modifications to spotlights so that they serve a dual role. You don't need two separate lights.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 08, 2011, 09:06 PM:

I`ve never used LEDs as stated before but I have sacrificed many nights with a scope mounted 12v sealed, as you stated there is lots of movement but if you are alone and on foot you will have a hell of a time if the light isnt mounted on the gun, at least for the shot, I`ve dicked around with a bunch of options, I found a buddy to join me and solved all the issues. One option that I entertained involved a hand held spot that could be quickly attached to the gun with red lense off when it was clicked back on for the shot, I gave up on that and went back to either 2 seperate lights or one on the gun, neither option is ideal. But they will work, sorta.

I better go see what articles LB linked to, I`m sure I`ve seen them before but I like to keep up on night hunting stuff.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 08, 2011, 09:46 PM:

Not saying theses are the best choices for lites but this is what I have used in the past. I use what is called Nite-lite designed for coon hunting which consists of a battery with reostat switch and a wide belt for carrying the battery. The lite uses a kripto bulb and the head canbe adjusted from spot-lite to flood and canbe dimmed with the reostat switch. You get a plastic barrel mount along with it for mounting on a shotgun or you can hold it in youre free hand which I prefer so you can work the lite around the area with out haveing to move youre gun.. The head is about the size of a softball or large coffee cup and has a long heavey cord comeing from it and going to the battery. The lite is very durable and I have had mine for a little over 15 years without any issues..
Another lite I use is made also from Nite-lite called the Wizzard and mounts to youre rifle scope with a quick-detach scope ring and the lite has a button on the backside for on and off and also has a light cord running down to a battery also hanging from a belt. The wizzard also has a shroud mounted on it to cut down on glare, the lite is about the size of a pop-can which makes it easey to get around with when walking or getting it out of the truck. The lite only has one setting and thats bright.. I had a battery go bad on this one after about 6 yrs. of use and nite-lite replaced it free of charge. The wizzard can also use a kripto bulb which gives you a brighter beam compared to a standard bulb..
As far as useing them for hunting the only thing you need to be aware of are the cords, keep the ecsess tucked in under youre belt till ready to use the lite..

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 09, 2011, 10:06 AM:

LB, good stuff, I appreciate you old tim...uhhh I mean more experienced hunters sharing the kind of info that is found in those links, thanks.

I might have missed something but I still dont see a solution for using ONE light for a lone hunter on foot, Steve Craigs set up sounds interesting & would probably be fine but it still uses 2 lights.

Some of us night hunters are always looking for the perfect light for hunting alone & the fact is that the SOB just doesnt exist, not to hijack this thread but I`d like to discuss what others have actually used (not what they`ve read about, TA) to overcome this issue of scanning with a scope mounted light OR having to turn off the spot and switch to the scope mount to take the shot. So far Steve Craigs rig is the only one I`ve heard of that addresses the issue of hunting alone on foot.

Just so I`m clear on Steves rig, he uses a hat light to scan & then switchs to the scope mount mercury switch light. Yes/no.

Is there a hat light powerful enough to use in open country, the ones I`ve tried sucked and I get all sorts of movement from a hat light.

On another note LB I like & fully intend to make and use one of your fancy dual light rigs for hunting with a partner, as of now I still just reach up and remove the red lens for the shot.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2011, 12:02 PM:

I feel that hunting at night requires two people to be successful, at least consistantly? I have rigged up stuff for hunting alone but most of it eventually wound up in the trash since I hardly ever used it. It one case, I mounted six low wattage red foglights around the truck. In another case I used amber lights mounted above my head and a third method involved a red unidirectional red light, on a pole which was the only one that didn't spook coyotes, but then you really need a separate spot mounted on your rifle.

The problem is what a light needs to do. You need a light that doesn't spook game and you need a strong spotlight that helps identify what it is that is out there, otherwise, you are just shooting at eyes. I don't ever do that.

So, you pretty much have to fabricate a light that does the things that need doing. I talk about flipper lights that involve a spring loaded lens that turns on edge so you can shoot an animal after identifying it. I use a light that has two lights together, one is a spot and the other is a wide beam flood or fog light. This is the best solution, for me.

I don't know if they still make it but lightforce used to make a light with a "pot" and a red snap on lens which is actually a very good all purpose light. I bought the one I have from Gerald Stewart and he said they didn't sell so he does not carry them any more. But again, this is a handheld light. You would need to modify it to attach it to a rifle. (edit: however, this light is as close to a "one light that does it all" solution that I know of?)

So to answer Baldknobber, I do not hunt alone and have few suggestions other than experiment and develop what you need for your own type of hunting.

I know there are guys out there that hunt alone and these are the folks that need to jump in here with ideas and suggestions.

Good hunting. LB

[ February 09, 2011, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 09, 2011, 01:32 PM:

JD,
I've been using a LED Predator Light headlamp with about a 4" shroud that I built for scanning. I use the medium power setting and can pick up eyes easily at 300-350 yards out. Then, on the rifle, I have one of those LED XLR250 lights. I've been able to easily get the animals into range without spooking with the headlamp and then burn em' with the XLR250. Neither of the lights have red filters or anything on them and fox, lynx and coyotes seem to pay zero attention to either of the lights. The XLR250 has a more blue tint to it, but it's easy to ID an animal with. For solo hunting, I havne't found anything better. I gave up on any big lights with 12 volt battery packs and wires. It's just too much junk to tote around and the cold plays havoc on those things.

Posted by tawnoper (Member # 497) on February 09, 2011, 01:35 PM:

I agree, night hunting is best as a 2 person deal...but, I have had plenty of nights out solo. Rarely am I on foot, almost all hunting is done from the truck. For scanning and the majority of light work I use a standard 170 Lightforce. Sometimes red, sometimes dialed down white. They are a nice light. One of the key things I like about them is they are lightweight. For a shooting light I just use one of those cheap snap on optronics shooting lights. They are self explanatory and pretty simple to use. For a lot of the shots you get at night they work fine. At least for me, the hardest part of night hunting solo is retrieving a downed animal. Real easy to get dis-oriented at night without someone guiding you or marking the spot. I've made a few things that help me but it's still nowhere as easy as a good light guy putting you on the animal...IMO

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 09, 2011, 01:43 PM:

quote:
I know there are guys out there that hunt alone and these are the folks that need to jump in here with ideas and suggestions

On this note...

Baldknobber,

Let me first point out the fact that I am a novice night hunter. I have only called in a few animals, some of which were only eyes to me, and some of which I heard and never actually saw.

That having been said, I almost always hunt alone at night. I use a headlamp for spotting, and I have a Surefire 6P tactical light mounted to my shotgun for shooting. For my purposes I believe this set up will work well enough. The LED headlamp is adequate for the close quarters type stuff I normally call. You probably will need something stronger for scanning the open country.

I agree with Leonard and JD 100% that being out there alone at night is a difficult prospect. I find it kind of exhilarating though.

Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 09, 2011, 02:22 PM:

4949,
What headlamp are you using? Did you buy one of those Lupine's yet for $1K?? [Smile]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2011, 02:31 PM:

Hey, 49.

While driving yesterday and listening to John and Ken I caught some of a question and answer between a LE and the gov of New Jersey, what's his name, Crist? He made the cop seem rather self centered, whining about a 2% raise when other people are unemployed, etc. The cop didn't seem to grasp the fact that the state was broke and could no longer afford generous retirements and raise, etc.

Question: did it make news in NJ? I wonder why it was a topic here in SoCal? But, I only listened to maybe twenty minutes, but they really excoriated the guy.

Good hunting. LB

edit: oh yeah, he complained that he had to pay a third of his health plan premiums, 2

[ February 09, 2011, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 09, 2011, 02:32 PM:

Haha Tundra I was gonna ask you the same question. [Big Grin]

Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 09, 2011, 02:39 PM:

Not yet...My Predator Light headlamp is working good so far. My guess is that somebody will have a 1800 lumen Cree headlamp in the $100 range soon enough. That Lupine is built like a tank though.

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 09, 2011, 02:43 PM:

Leonard this is the first I have heard of it. We (my agency) has been working without a contract for over three years. A 2% raise is what I heard we will be getting most likely. Ugh.

We can't complain though because many people have it a lot worse.

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 09, 2011, 02:52 PM:

The Germans sure know how to build stuff to last Tundra.

Leonard the governor's name is Chris Cristie. When he was still a US Attorney he had been receiving death threats from some organized crime groups. We had to check his residence at night. There were a lot of foxes in the area.

The last I saw him I was working OT at a NY Jet game. We got invited into one of the fancy, expensive booths, and one of the LEO's with me told me to go outside where the seats are and look to my left. There was the governor outside his booth watching the game. I was kinda surprised he would be out there in the open, but what do I know?

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2011, 02:52 PM:

Crist was patient, but after two detailed explanations, the guy was still saying things like. "what am I supposed to DO!" Apparently he feared he couldn't survive with a 2% raise.

Well, that's all I know about it?

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 09, 2011, 02:56 PM:

I'll probably hear something tomorrow. Some do whine a lot.

What the hell, Mrs. 49 says I am always complaining..

Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 09, 2011, 03:08 PM:

4949,
German stuff is usually built pretty solid and durable. That is, except for my broken WT's. [Big Grin]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 09, 2011, 03:13 PM:

Lol [Big Grin]

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 09, 2011, 03:15 PM:

Tundra, what headlamp do you use? What technique do you use as compared to what LB described in his article? Having a partner is the real cure but I just cant give up on the idea of a one man show, sometimes you cant find a buddy willing to go to work tomorrow on zero sleep. (whiners)

LB, I`d be embarrassed to tell of some of the half assed ideas I`ve tried as far as lights go on a night stand. [Smile]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 09, 2011, 03:29 PM:

quote:
LB, I`d be embarrassed to tell of some of the half assed ideas I`ve tried as far as lights go on a night stand.

Tell us JD!

Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on February 09, 2011, 04:55 PM:

I was thinking of using a Nite Lite head lamp for scanning and once an animal is spotted use an XLR 250 mounted on the scope to follow them in with and for the shot. Im not wanting to spend an extravagant amount of money. About $250 would be tops for this endeavor.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2011, 06:24 PM:

You can use a tripod mounted light, that works pretty well, with a few modifications, maybe leg extentions because you would like to have the light above your head, if possible?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 09, 2011, 06:39 PM:

JD,
I'm using a Predator Light with a home made 4" long shroud and a Petzl head-lamp strap. The Predator light doesn't offer a decent head-lamp setup, so I had to create my own. Technique-wise, I'm trying to use the same strategy that Leonard does, except I don't do the 360 degree scan due to the way I approach my stands and also because I try to keep woods and brush behind me. I have the caller about 10 feet in front of me and just slowly scan with the headlamp until I see eyes. I have a BogGear tripod sitting in front of me that I can get the rifle on in a hurry and get a decent standing shot. I like the one man show, nobody to slow me down. I only have one hunting partner that I've gone with that I'd do the double night hunting with, but he's in Fiji.

Baldknobber,
That Nite Lite would be a good scanning light I'd wager. Is that a LED light? You can get comparable LED lights to the XLR's at Sportsman's Guide. I picked up two other models on there that hold a candle to the XLR 250 for $35 a piece. I have my light mounted to my barrel, so I can easily push the rear cap switch. The remote wired deals are a no-go in the cold, so having it at the end of the foregrip is the way to go for me. I know I'll get chastised for having something on my barrel probably, but it works better than anything else I've tried.

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 09, 2011, 06:51 PM:

LOL I`ve had a few strokes of genius concerning night hunting, my own version of a headlamp based on a hard hat fitting system, that one made it into the trash in short order, mag lites taped to a gun, a tripod sorta setup with the light mounted above me, several oddball versions of spots that could be held while shooting a rifle sheeesh, and one idea that I never did work on, yet, a very small quickly detached trailer set up that would work much like a "rig" only be stationary,(cant hunt from a motorized vehicle) would work great for all the easily accessed hay fields, what a gawdawful pain in the ass that would be huh.

I`m not afraid to try to make just about anything but hell you can go buy anything you need nowadays so starting from scratch isnt needed anymore and quite honestly I like shit to be simple, I`m getting old.

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 09, 2011, 07:01 PM:

Thanks Tundra, I have a good scope mounted spot that I`ve used for several years now, I`m gonna give that predator lite/ headlamp a try though. LB I didnt see your post, the tripod thing was just too much for me to carry along with all the other garb. Like I said, I`m getting old.

Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on February 09, 2011, 07:28 PM:

Tundra, the Nite Lite is a coon hunting rig that I used to use years ago. It is designed to mount on a hard hat or cap. That would be handy for scanning, or you could just scan with it by hand and then after something is spotted shut it off and let it hang over your shoulder by the cord while using a scopelight.

LB, I thought about mounting a light on a monopod and just swiveling the bipod when scanning, but hate to give up the stability of my bipod.

I'm still leaning toward the Nite Lite\XLR 250 combo which would end up being about $220 total. I've got to check the Flashlight section at Bass Pro in Springfield, hopefully this weekend.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 09, 2011, 08:21 PM:

Here are some pic's of my set-up. Sounds like Baldknobber has the same nite-lite as me. The neat thing about the Nite-lite is you can go from flood to spot light and it has a pretty strong and narrow beam so you don't get all the shadows when moveing it from side to side.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/007-3.jpg[/IMG]]

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/006-4.jpg[/IMG]]

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 09, 2011, 09:11 PM:

Oh boy!!! Is that the "pred"!!? Thanks for the stage shot Tim, none of us have ever seen a light mounted to a scope before, I`m all a twitter with excitement!! And you have red lenses too!!! Cmon Tim tell us what those do, please!! Are you gonna teach LB how to use a red lense!!?? Huh are ya?? Can I sit in on the lesson today!!?? Huh can I Tim?? Oh boy!! What are those black thingys & all those wires & stuff for??!! Cmon Tim tell us!!!

Alright enough of that nonsense

[Smile]

I couldn`t resist

Good info guys, Thanks, I`m gonna go check out that XLR and comparable lights also.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 09, 2011, 09:27 PM:

No its not the Pred.. You should of known that..

As for the Red lenses you tell me.. I don't use them here.... [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2011, 10:35 PM:

Yeah, but what is that rifle? Looks like a Model 600 action?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 09, 2011, 10:36 PM:

Close enough leonard.. (XP-100 action)

Posted by JD (Member # 768) on February 09, 2011, 11:25 PM:

There aren`t any signatures on it, what gives? Can I sign this one? I promise not to write the F word on it. (much)

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 10, 2011, 03:24 AM:

JD I tried some home brew methods myself.

What is kinda funny to me though, is with the recent increase in predator hunting popularity, and all the new gadgets and gizmos, I took a suggestion from another cop on my choice of shotgun mounted light. Two weeks ago I fell 5 times on this ice covering our snow. The Surefire took a lickin' and kept on tickin'. Even the simple Tacstar mount I used held up.

Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on February 10, 2011, 05:49 AM:

TA, thats what Ive got in mind, only with XLR 250 scope light. How far will the nite lite reach out with whe red lense on. I am a little concerned about that. I would be hunting some very open ground.

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 10, 2011, 05:57 AM:

I've tried some wacky light gizmos too. Couple years back, I modified a swiveling monopod for use with a 170. I can pan for eyes with the simple twist of my left wrist, with the gun at the ready all the while. Only drawback is toting that stinkin' battery pack around!

In the last few years, I've happily settled on a good ol' Streamlight Ultrastinger. The fact that I'm usually night calling on a blanket of snow is a great benefit, since I don't need all those lumens from the 170 to ID and shoot. I have a Butler Creek 'blizzard cap' (clear lens) on the end of the Ultra, and colored the clear lens of the blizzrard cap in with a red Sharpie. Should I want WHITE light, I flip up the cap...

Since we can't hunt from vehicles in NY and PA doesn't allow for weapon mounted illumination, I love the portability of the Ultra. I slip it in a belt loop & off I go on foot!
As for panning, I sit with my gun in the stix and scan for eyes with my left hand. Movement is minimal and more importantly the light is out front of my position, so I'm not splashed with light! When I get 'eyes' approaching, I simply hold (wedge)the Ultra up into the left leg of my stix, just under the cradle where the gunstock sits...
Works GREAT!
You can see the Ultra in this pic...

[ February 10, 2011, 06:03 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]

Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on February 10, 2011, 08:47 AM:

I do remember seeing that setup Fred! Not a bad idea... about the best you can do for scanning alone. That could be done with a smaller, lighter weight, LED light.

Now about those camo pajamas... all I can say is... no, I'm not going to say it!!! [Big Grin]

Nikonut

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 10, 2011, 09:28 AM:

At least we were spared the G strap Beefcake.

Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on February 10, 2011, 11:19 AM:

Ya, and I haven't posted pics of Fred modeling the "Buckethead" at the OPHA Hunt for that very reason! [Big Grin]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 10, 2011, 11:48 AM:

I never would have guessed! Kelly dresses like that? edit: I misunderstood, but where did Fred get the buckethead? I'm so confused!

Good hunting. LB

[ February 10, 2011, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on February 10, 2011, 12:31 PM:

Fred is actually Buckethead Prostaff.

Not sure but after his modeling debut he may have even been promoted to "Northeastern Regional Distributor" or something like that...

Fred had the new, "Hillbilly" model on display at the OK hunt. With it's dual hydration units and coonskin camo it's already a big hit and will no doubt be a best seller. It even features a comfort adjustable safety liner! Should work well in rocky terrain or heavy cover.
I think it's called the CBEX Special(?), for "Coonass Buckethead Extreme". It's also setup for yet to be announced easy add-on's. Rumor has it an "Automisting" unit and a night calling setup is also in the works. That's privileged insider stuff so don't let it out just yet.

Nikonut [Wink]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 10, 2011, 02:57 PM:

Maybe I did hear something about it? The hydration and the misting feature have the same reservoir, right? For the REAL hardcore.

Kelly must be making a ton of money off that product? Probably enough to retire and live a comfortable Okie life.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 10, 2011, 03:42 PM:

quote:
PA doesn't allow for weapon mounted illumination,

Fred, I believe PA allows weapon mounted lights. My understanding is that it does not allow lights or beams used as a sight, such as a laser sight.

If I am wrong let me know.

[ February 10, 2011, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 10, 2011, 05:28 PM:

Why in the hell wouldn't any authority not allow a laser sight? Are you sure of this? No weapon mounted laser site? That's crazy.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 10, 2011, 06:24 PM:

Here it is Leonard:

Electronic Devices: It is unlawful to hunt with any electronic contrivance
or device except: 1) Electronic callers may be used to hunt bobcats,
coyotes, foxes, raccoons and crows. 2) Lighted pins on bow sights and
scopes with lighted reticles may be used as long as they don’t cast a beam.
Any device used as a sight or scope on any firearm, bow or crossbow that
projects a light beam of any kind onto the target is unlawful. 3) Portable,
two-way radios and cell phones may be used for general communications
with another hunter, but may not be used to direct or alert another hunter
of the presence or location of live game or wildlife. The use of electronic
communication devices to alert hunters to live game is not only a violation
of the Game & Wildlife Code, but violates the concept of Fair Chase. The
use of portable radios does not satisfy the legal requirement of accompanying
a junior hunter. The accompanying adult must be close enough to
give verbal instructions without the aid of an electronic device. 4) Electronic
sound amplification devices that are incorporated into hearing protection
devices and completely contained in or on the hunter’s ear may be
used to hunt or take wildlife.
The following devices may now be used to hunt or take wildlife: Any
manually operated firearm that uses an electronic impulse to detonate the
primer or main powder charge of the ammunition, unless such firearms are
a specifically prohibited device. Electronic illuminating devices that are
affixed at the aft end of a bolt or arrow and used solely for the purpose of
locating or tracking bolt or arrow flight after being launched from a crossbow
or bow.

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=726681&mode=2 (scroll down to "General Hunting Regulations"

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 10, 2011, 06:32 PM:

And from the next page down on the same link:

A person hunting raccoons, skunks, opossums, bobcats, weasels, foxes and
coyotes on foot may use a handheld light, including a gun-mounted light.
Furbearer hunters still may not use a flashlight or spotlight that projects a
laser light beam, though.

I am just a dumb guy from NJ, but I read this as gun mounted lights are legal in PA. Fred may have a different interpretation, or may be privy to something I am not. I would like to hear his take on the subject. Perhaps I have been doing the wrong thing.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 10, 2011, 06:36 PM:

Okay, but what is the rationale on disallowing lasers? Okay, it's a violation, but who thought it up and what's the problem? Must we just accept these things without question? By what means may we protest, and is there a way to appeal such things that make no sense?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 10, 2011, 06:43 PM:

Leonard I couldn't answer that as far as the rationale goes. Maybe George Ackley or Sherri would know the answer as they reside in PA. Hopefully they will see this thread...

Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on February 10, 2011, 08:08 PM:

Hell, you think laser sights being prohibited is bad you should hear some of the shit the Dept. of Conservation here in Mo. comes up with. Its against the law to kill snakes. Even poisonous snakes. Snakes of all kinds!!!! Hell, no wonder Higgins loaded up and went to Arizona!

[ February 10, 2011, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Baldknobber ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 10, 2011, 08:23 PM:

There's a law begging to be broken. It's everything you know, is suddenly wrong. Every day I see stuff claiming this or that because some study announced some findings. People are being jerked around on every level. I just don't trust the "authorities" to know what's best for us.

So, how many years will I get for shooting a rattle snake? Or, is it more serious than that? A rope? OMG!

Can I use being a nonresident as a defense? Dumb Californians kill snakes all the time.

So, it's Pennsylvania that doesn't allow laser sights? Well, sounds like something New Jersey started? Or wished they had thought of it first.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 11, 2011, 03:25 AM:

In NJ night hunting is by permit only. The night hunting season is from Jan first through the second week of March. We can use shotgun only, #4 bird shot through T shot. There is no hunting from motor vehicles.

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 11, 2011, 05:14 AM:

49, reckon the PPHA helped get that 'no light on the gun' rule amended then? When I first started hunting PA, it was a no-no, so that's a good thing!

Nikon, thanks for the modeling props!
f.y.i...
I'm also available for select weddings, bachelorette parties & Bar-Mitzvahs... [Eek!]

Leonard, the most recent buckethead uses a 'stand alone' misting nozzle that indeed can be syphoned from either of the 12 oz. side saddle fluid recepticles. Cutting edge innovation!!!

[ February 11, 2011, 05:17 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 11, 2011, 10:17 AM:

Okay sounds good Fred. Thanks.

Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on February 11, 2011, 03:34 PM:

Guys,

I can't show all the pics of the Buckethead "Coonass Edition", but here are a few I can show... [Big Grin]

This was at the beginning of Fred's runway debut and as it went really quickly(downhill)from here some of the shots are a little fuzzy(pun intended). I can't post the ones with the G-string... wouldn't want to give Leonard a heart attack! [Razz]

Fred's vigorous and emotionally charged performance actually drove some of those attending to tears!

Last, but not least, a picture of the latest Buckethead prototype, the "KFC" model.
Notice the large "MasterBlaster" speaker(newest styrofoam cone technology)and "Interurban" ghetto camo pattern.

All Copyrights Reserved_Ciambella2011

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 11, 2011, 07:54 PM:

And to think that coyote hunting used to be such a simple thing to do. [Big Grin]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 12, 2011, 01:52 AM:

That looks like a WWII German paratrooper helmet with a coonass on top. [Big Grin]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 12, 2011, 05:57 AM:

Back to night hunting...

Actually not a night question per se, but will a coyote distress cause a younger pup not to come in close for fear of getting it's own arse kicked? I was using this last night, and heard a high pitched bark off to my right fairly close.

Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 12, 2011, 09:50 AM:

Simple answer, I suppose it could. In my experience, I've seen coyote distress and coyote pup distress elicit pretty much the full gamut of responses. From a full blown retreat to the most agressive charges to barks to distant howls. Kinda like a box of chocolates.

Any chance what you heard was a fox?

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 12, 2011, 09:52 AM:

Thanks Jim.

I didn't think of a fox, but it could have been. A fox would come into a coyote distress?

Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 12, 2011, 09:59 AM:

I've never had a fox show up to pup distress, but I've had them show up after coyote vocals including distress. Makes you wonder sometimes how any of them survive. One barking at the hubub from reasonable safety sure isn't out of the question.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 12, 2011, 11:40 AM:

As long as we are speculating. Is it more likely to be a gray fox? I have the impression that reds won't come to a place where they suspect there are coyotes. But, as long as there is a tree to climb, a gray might?

Good hunting. LB

edit: PS niko, you have set back Okie reputation several decades. And, did you notice the pout in the third photo, Looks like that Maxim guy on dancing with the stars.

[ February 12, 2011, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 12, 2011, 01:13 PM:

Lol the fox came in for a front view seat of the action. I don't have any grey fox skins on my lodge pole, and fox are covered under the night coyote hunting permit so this could be interesting.

Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on February 12, 2011, 01:14 PM:

"dancing with the stars"??? Must be a California thing... [Confused]

As for Okie reputation, it really is amazing what a little moonshine will do! [Eek!]

Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 12, 2011, 01:18 PM:

That guy to the left of KJ looks like he is enjoying the bucket head joke...

[ February 12, 2011, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 12, 2011, 01:34 PM:

The difference between here and there. (okay, ONE of the differences)

.....is that when we attend club meeting, we don't look like we just parked the tractor out front. Nor, do we wear camo unless we are engaged in the pursuit of game. It's a defensive technique developed after years thus engaged.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 12, 2011, 02:21 PM:

For what it's worth, the camo clad pouting model is a yankee.

Now if'n you're implying that we or in this case they didn't dress fancy enough, it's a hunt not a dance.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on February 12, 2011, 02:41 PM:

quote:
As long as we are speculating. Is it more likely to be a gray fox? I have the impression that reds won't come to a place where they suspect there are coyotes. But, as long as there is a tree to climb, a gray might

I agree Leonard it could be a grey doing the barking.. As for red fox here we have been finding them in the same 1x1 sections as coyotes and at times even finding both of them shareing the same corn stubble or small wood lot..

A few years back JRB mentioned of a stand he made that had a red fox respond to coyote vocals, I thought maybe he was just seeing things till I saw the same happen when calling with my WT and also useing coyote vocals.. I had a few reds come in last season on daytime as well as nite time stands... Same thing happened 3 nites ago when I got a coyote and redfox on the same stand...

[ February 12, 2011, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Nikonut (Member # 188) on February 12, 2011, 06:06 PM:

quote:
.....is that when we attend club meeting, we don't look like we just parked the tractor out front. Nor, do we wear camo unless we are engaged in the pursuit of game. It's a defensive technique developed after years thus engaged.

Truth is Leonard, if it hadn't been so cold that weekend there probably would have been a tractor parked out front! There actually were quite a few big wheeled diesel rigs covered in mud in the parking lot!
In Oklahoma you look out of place if you don't wear camo... even to church! [Razz]

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