This is topic Nite time yotee's in forum Night forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.


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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 25, 2011, 05:02 PM:
 
I went out last nite around 1:00 a.m., had to wait for the moon to rise high enough to lite up the snow somewhat. I made my first stand just north of town along a fence line that went into a big section that had a large grove and a few smaller ones as well.. Stayed on stand for 30 minutes and nothing showed so I did some locate howls to see if anything was holding back far enough that I could'nt see with the Bino.'s. I had 3 respond to the howls and sounded like they were on the north side of the grove perhaps a mile away so I let them go and moved on to another stand location about 3 miles East of there..
This was another big section that had some plum brush islands scattered all over along with a few vacant groves and two sets of drainage ditches running through it, and also had a few CRP plots..
I set up on the east side of the section along a fence line that ran from the East to the West..I had some CRP to my left that was filled in and to my right a picked bean field that had amost 3' of snow on top. The lite breeze was comeing from the West by northwest..
I started my stand with a few howls to increase the confendence level of any coyotes in the area and then paused for a few minutes and gave them one more set of howls.. I let the time pass for a spell and then played a series of some good old rabbit distress. In between howling and useing ditress sounds I'm scaneing the area with a pair of Bino's looking from left to right and then back to left and so on. If a coyote approaches from the cover I can pick them up in the open as long as they are moveing or standing broadside, if they come straight in then I can't see them till they are almost on top of me.

I kept looking and then played another series of distress sounds and then went back to panning the area looking for movement. Bingo! I have a pair spotted comeing from my right working there way to the center of the sound cone and comeing at a fast walk. ( comeing easey)
The first coyote checks up on the fence line by a big exsposed rock and the second is just a few yards back to its right. I got my rifle lined up but could'nt find the coyote in the scope so I had to go back to the bino's to verify where it was exactly was and then switched back to the rifle and finally found the coyote through the scope. The coyote pretty much blacked out the center of the cross-hairs so I had to use the thicker part to get the scope centered on the coyote and then squeezed the trigger. I had the bright flash from the muzzle blind me temperary so while I waited for my eyes to adjust I chambered another round and then switched to the bino's looking for the other coyote. I picked up the second coyote a little farther west and north of the one I just shot, so I played a little coyote distress and waited to see what it would do.. The coyote just stood there watching in my direction for a minute and then took off to the creek to the west.. I was'nt sure of the distance of this coyote and did'nt think I could make a decent shot so I just let it go....
I went out and picked up the coyotes which was a good size male in the 38 pound range and had some good thick fur..
I made about 4-5 more stands in the area and called it a nite or should say mourning.LOL
So far I've noticed if I use the right coyote vocals they look to be more relaxed comeing in vrs. the ones called dureing the day.. Also the coyotes here have'nt tried to use the wind when comeing in, they come in from left or right and work there way to the center of the sound cone which makes it a little easier to watch for them but I suppose sooner or later I may get one that wants to play a little different...

I remember Leonard mentioning a bigger gun should be used at nite so I have been useing the 20x47 on most nite hunts..

[ January 29, 2011, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 26, 2011, 07:48 PM:
 
A few day pic.s of my nite stands.

On this stand I called the same coyote in two times before but it hung up at the half mile line due to the deep snow. I was back a week later after the snow set-up and called the same coyote back in this time it came across the open field and up to the fence line. I was set up faceing west with coyote comeing from the creek to the south..Had a lite N-W wind..

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/008-A.jpg[/IMG]]

Next pic is of the same section but this time I'm set up on the west side calling back to the east with a S-E wind. There was a trail made by the coyotes along the creek and grove so I set up on this hopeing it would make the coyote come a little easier. Coyote came out of the corner or from around the corner of a wood lot on northside of creek in middle of section.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/007--A.jpg[/IMG]]

This stand was made the other nite. I'm set up on East side of a big 2x3 mile section with two ditches and some plum brush groves and CRP in this section. I was calling to the west and the pair of coyotes came in from the north working there way south till they reached the center of the sound cone.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/009-A.jpg[/IMG]]

38 pound male with good fur for this area...
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/003-2.jpg[/IMG]]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 27, 2011, 02:45 PM:
 
Nice.

I am 0 for 2 in Jersey so far. Probably will head out tomorrow night if the conditions are good.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 27, 2011, 04:10 PM:
 
The "use a bigger gun" advice is not very applicable in Tim's situation because he has snow, for tracking and we usually don't, although it's just as cold. The reason for what I said is because a cripple will not limp off leaving just scattered blood drops on sand and gravel that hides blood very well, making a huge job of tracking, and wasting good hunting time.

If you have snow, it's very easy to find him and there will be lots of blood evidence so you can evaluate how bad he is hit.

I don't think choice of weapon means much in this example, above, with all that snow on the ground, and Tim has once again failed to grasp simple advice.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 27, 2011, 05:01 PM:
 

quote:

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I don't think choice of weapon means much in this example, above, with all that snow on the ground, and Tim has once again failed to grasp simple advice.

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Oh I grasped it alright.. If a hunters shooting skills are a little under-par use a bigger gun..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 27, 2011, 05:53 PM:
 
I'm not going to waste my time with another explanation, but he still doesn't get it?
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 27, 2011, 09:58 PM:
 
Yeah Leonard he just doesn't understand.

I use a 17 Tactical or a 17 Ackley hornet for 90% of my day stands anymore.They do a fine job on called coyotes,bobcats,and fox from 0-350 yards.BUT.....

I wouldn't even consider using either one of them as a night calling rig especially in Nevada.The minimum for me at night would be a standard .22-250 and with that nothing under 55 grain bullets.For the reasons you stated above.And before Tim says it again,it has nothing to do with your shooting ability...... Although I do hear Tim is an incredible Marksman,mostly from him though...lol

Good Hunting Chad



[ January 27, 2011, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 27, 2011, 10:11 PM:
 
Sorry Chad. I admitt I do like to beat my chest from time to time.. Does that make me bad?????

Here is one for you to ponder..
Since I have had my 20x47 Lapua shooting 40 or 50 gr. bullets I have had more runners with it in just a month than I have had with my 17 pred.
Why is that???

quote:

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Although I do hear Tim is an incredible Marksman,mostly from him though...lol

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You don't have to take my word for it, just look at the dead coyotes that I post picks of.. That where shot by me and look where the holes are and are not. You won't see to many with the top of there back blown off or half there ass missing.

[ January 27, 2011, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 28, 2011, 12:08 AM:
 
Tim how the hell should I know why you're getting alot of runners with your 20 cal.I'm not there and haven't seen it happen so I won't make up reasons for it.

I think the reason guys give you so much shit here is that you're nothing special calling wise on this hunting site.And I don't mean that in a condescending way.

Most of the guys on here have been there done that for 25+ years.Then you come on here talking like you are the only one that knows how to kill coyotes.Mostly because you've learned a few things recently that have made you alittle more successful.Great thats called being adaptable...

As far as the pictures go.So what.Most experienced callers know where to shoot coyotes.

My Point? You're just another caller just like the rest of us. Don't act like you're anything more than that.....

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 28, 2011, 12:30 AM:
 
OMG! Is that it? He really thinks that he's a friggin' expert, and our membership is a bunch of know nothings?

Somebody, what's that called? Self delusional? Is that a form of mental...oops! We are going to play nice with Timmy, see how that works.

Good hunting. LB

PS so, let me get this straight. He thinks he knows more about this shit than I do, for instance?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 28, 2011, 07:48 AM:
 
Never made the claim I was special or even an expert, thats something people came up with on there own...
People tend to misinterpret things or just make the wrong assumption.
For example Leonard thinks I drink to much.. I don't drink and have'nt touched the stuff for over 12 years.. Could proably just ask Roede since I was at a few of his garage parties...

quote:

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He thinks he knows more about this shit than I do, for instance?

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Nope Leonard! never made such a claim. I don't call at nite with flipper lites and I don't use misting and I don't call cats or grey foxes so I would say you are more knowledgeable on those topics plus a few others...

Since I have admitted I don't know anymore than anyone else, how about some of the guys that have been calling for 20+ fill some of us in on how to call Call Shy Coyotes and pressured pups...
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 28, 2011, 08:11 AM:
 
"how about some of the guys that have been calling for 20+ fill some of us in on how to call Call Shy Coyotes and pressured pups..."

I can think of a reason not too...Most of us that have had success over the last 20+ years have been successful because we keep our mouths shut about what works and what don't. Especially on a public forum.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 28, 2011, 09:17 AM:
 
Tim, I`ve been calling coyotes for 20+ years, what I like to do for call shy coyotes is get the crew together & consume copious amounts of jim beam then get in our trucks & chase them around until we have killed every one of them, we almost never get a runner unless we use too much gun & those call shy coyotes dont know what to do when they see our guns hanging out the truck windows while we scream down the roads & into the pasture. Works every time, it always does!

Seriously Tim, if you paid attention only a fraction as much as you type, you would be a genius, well a borderline genius anyway.

But you cant stand the fact that you arent what you put yourself up to be & that there are people on these boards that dont need your advice on anything & everything, its just gay Tim so stop it.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 28, 2011, 10:09 AM:
 
Oh boy. I opened this thread with trepidation, knowing how Senior Pottymouth can get when discussing Tim Anderson. By the way, I could care less about colorful language.

But, JD (bless his heart) is going along with the spirit of the proposals and vague guidelines, since we really don't want to be responsible for slit wrists, or long drops and inedible metal.

And, I can't help wondering why he participates, since he can't learn anything from us, and he isn't here to make friends?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 28, 2011, 10:33 AM:
 
I think he hangs out here because he likes boys.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 28, 2011, 11:01 AM:
 
You think?

You made me LOL.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 28, 2011, 05:15 PM:
 
MISTER, I FOUND YOUR CAT......



http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/ATT078971.jpg[/IMG]]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 28, 2011, 08:51 PM:
 
Must be some sort of internet turrette's, or something. One minute, we're talking about one thing, and the next, irrelevant pictures. Takes tangents and sidetracking to a whole new level. LOL This one lost me.

On a sidetrack note, Kevin and I managed to stumble quite by dumb luck upon these five suicidal bastards running about the countryside. Yep, they were pressured and call shy, both, but by gawd, they's dead now. Even a blind pig, or two blind pigs, find an acorn. Hell, no more than what we know - combined - the wives consider themselves lucky that we can even find our way home most days. BTW, most guys I'm talking to around here are having a heckuva time killing any coyotes these days and are geting really pissed that Kevin and I keep having dumb ones like these just run up to us and fall over dead. Can't be no other explanation.



Those two li'l ones are Kevin's - Lane on the left and Heath on the right. Future coyotes hunters, I suspect. I got another one yesterday morning and ended up jacking my knee up while out looking for more dumb ones. Hoping it's just a strecthed tendon, but it hurts more than that and has me concerned. May be out of commission for a while, depending upon what the MRI says. Hell, I can't hardly spell MRI, let alone know what they do. All I know is that my backup job as QB for da' Bears is gone now after seeing how they treated that other guy.

(Don't tell Tim, but we keep eight dead coyotes in a freezer and trot out random numbers of them for photos like this to make us look like we're whackin' and stackin' 'em. Shhhhh.)

[ January 28, 2011, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 28, 2011, 09:16 PM:
 
How long where youre stands on the shy ones?????
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 28, 2011, 11:33 PM:
 
I meant to ask, who's writing your headlines for ya, these days, Tim? Kind of melodramatic, don't you think? Looks like you have been reading too many dime novels.

But, thanks for sharing. El Bee
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 29, 2011, 03:19 AM:
 
Edit: Rant off.

[ January 29, 2011, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on January 29, 2011, 11:02 AM:
 
Lance,

Sounds like a good time to retire from the postal service.

postal workers workman comp vs. retirement benefits
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 29, 2011, 12:11 PM:
 
can we have a clue as to what the reason for the rant might have been?
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 29, 2011, 12:22 PM:
 

quote:

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How long where youre stands on the shy ones?????

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As Leonard can attest to from his one trip to KS in the post-deer/pheasant/duck/goose/everything else season to call coyotes, by Christmas time, there is no way to differentiate between a "shy coyote" and a "non-shy coyote", because the latter simply doesn't exist. It's late season, and contrary to any belief you have that few people know how to work such a coyote as these, there are ways to make them cooperate.

Having said that, I do not write about everything I have learned over the years since keeping certain things in reserve is prudent when one wishes to stay competitive. Having said that, one has to be realistic about their expectations with coyotes as the season progresses. To answer your question, I use a strategy at this time of the year which is expected to be a minimum 20-minute stand by design. They either show up within five minutes, or at the 20-minute mark, but rarely in between due to their general behavior, the setup we use, and how we paint the picture.

Times wise on these individuals, several first showed at the <4 minute mark in response to the opening volley of sounds at 40-60 yards coming at a daed run. Another was the second of a pair where the first appeared @ ~200 yards within one minute of my first sound, kept looking to the NW along the ravine prompting us to sit tight and wait for the situation to evolve. At about the six minute mark, number two appeared 100 yards from me across an open meadow, turned to my left and circled the edge of the open field along the tall grass' edge to get closer to its mate. We had hoped to have them both close to one another and go for the double tap, but number 2 stopped and offered up a broadside at about 225 aqnd looked a lot like she was getting ready to vacate the premises so we had to move on 'em. I lined up on it and K sat up on the other. We did the 1-2-3-boom thing and as I was counting, K's laid down offering nada but a head shot at 200. He missed. I killt. The last one of the bunch was the survivor of a pair we killed the female from two days earlier, by my best guess, because it took the same approach, originating from the same pocket of cover, and ran and stopped at nearly the exact same spot as the female did coming to the call, where he, like she, died at ~40 yards. With him, I'd just finished up the first sound, went to the second sound and there he was, all in a hurry and shit. Ended poorly for him.

Cryptic enough?

[ January 29, 2011, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 29, 2011, 03:24 PM:
 
Leonard, I was just blowing off some steam.

I took a friend hunting last night. He has shown some interest in coyote hunting, and went out with me a few times last year. He is having some personal problems at home, so I invited him to go with me last night so as to get him out of the house for a while. Well, let's just say he fouled up any possibility of calling something in by moving around and making noise on stand. He is ten years older than me, so I tried to be gentle, but he still says I hollared at him.

This just reinforces the reasons why I hunt alone.

I felt I shouldn't bore everyone with this, so I deleted my post.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 29, 2011, 05:03 PM:
 
tl,

Can't say that I disagree with that assessment. A guy has to be realistic and fair in today's economy. That lady has had a bee in her bonnet about the USPS for as long as I've been employed here. STrangely, she wants to deny fellow federal employees of what is essentially a weak comensation package compared to what she is guarenteed as a member of Congress, for life, regardless of how long she serves.

It also includes a note about how much we make. Laughable. My annual income is a matter of public record if you look around the internet and I don't make the $125k that the same studies cited and which was all over the news a couple months ago when those reports were first released. Not even when you add in benefits, and I don't know any federal employees that do, so since we're all below the supposed median, some agency somewhere is making a helluva lot of money.

There are a lot of ppl milking the system, and yes, I think that once they hit retirement age - which with USPS employees, is 56 years of age - they need to be transferred to the FERS since that is what they signed up for day one. Had they not been injured, they'd have been happy with it and they should be happy with it now.

Now, back to coyotes.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 29, 2011, 05:41 PM:
 
So youre call shy coyotes came in no latter than 20 minutes and only two sounds was used to do the job... That sounds like one of my normal S.D. stands...
The more difficult coyotes I have called to required more than two sounds, actually a series of sounds and at times had to start back at the beginning and go back through them before a difficult coyote would respond and when they did you had to coax them about 100 yds at a time till they where in rifle range...

[ January 29, 2011, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 29, 2011, 07:07 PM:
 
"So, youre call shy coyotes came in no latter than 20 minutes and only 2 sounds..."

Not what I said.

In those instances where they showed up right away, you are correct. They responded within just a few minutes and no more than two (very effective, season-appropriate) sounds were necessary given that time frame. Having said that, as you recall, I also said, "I use a strategy at this time of the year which is expected to be a minimum 20-minute stand by design" meaning that the strategy we employ during this part of the season is designed to keep us on stand at least 20 minutes, and longer if necessary because the sounds we use and how they're sequenced are appropriate to the social changes happening with coyotes at this time of the year and I don't start the stand expecting coyotes to be in my lap by the third breath. It's no longer early season. Their motivations are changing and the strategy we're using now exploits those changes. An experienced caller knows what I'm talking about so I don't really have to explain it any further. Nor will I.

The point I was attempting to make to you, and which I apparently failed in doing so, was that not all "call shy" (I'm getting so tired of hearing that phrase) coyotes need coaxing across a half-mile of open terrain which is what you seem to be impressing upon us is your forte as the top-gun Mr. Coyote that you are. You see, Tim, y'all need to learn to work smarter, not harder. Your remark smacks of the fact that you're drawing conclusions based upon ignorance-borne assumptions as to the conditions and structure where I hunt. Had you actually thought before running your little fingers across the keyboard, you might have said to yourself, "Self? Maybe Lance's country and his abiulities as a hunter lends themselves to the ability to get closer to the coyotes than I can in South Dakota. And, maybe the reason that Lance never talks about working a coyote in a hundred yards at a time across a half-mile of open country with about as much structure and cover as a KMart parking lot is because, where Lance is, there's a damned tree in the way." Better yet, maybe I don't have to and really don't see you doing it as all that impressive. More like you having a lot of time to waste when you would be better off getting after the next set of fresh ears.

Here's the point, Tim. You espouse uninformed and misguided opinions as fact based upon limited personal experience. Your fingers outrun your brain and you end up with that bum of yours hanging out there for all to see.

I don't have to work a coyote across 500 yards simply because, in most cases, I wouldn't know he's out there because a tree, creek, or river is in the way. Have you ever been in the eastern 2/3 of Kansas or is your idea of Kansas a flat, treeless Plain? My areas look nothing at all like St. Francis or western Nebraska.

Even then, if he's 500 yards away, he's probably going to use tree lines, field edges, fences, creeks, or drainages to cover his approach. (Much the same way as I can use those same things to mask my approach to him and cut him off somewhere in the midddle saving us both a lot of time and needless walking.) Those who chose not to do that were dead over a month ago. Natural selection in favor of those that work smarter, not harder, and those who choose not to run across open spaces in broad daylight.

Instead, we identify where we feel the coyotes are most likely to be bedded down or located, if it's early and they may still be traveling between hunting and bedding covers. Then, we affect an approach from the down- or crosswind side to get within 2, maybe 300 yards where we position ourselves for the shot. We don't go into the deal expecting a hard charger 'cause it ain't likely to happen. Instead, we setup with the intent of simply standing them up. More times than not, that's all you're gonna get from them, and when they do, you have to read their posture and ask yourself, "Is he gonna close the gap or do I best take him now?" or, "Give him a chance to tell me if he's got another coyote with him." You make the decision and act on it. In most cases, as long as you don't blow it, the coyote will choose the moment of his death. Sometimes, you don't have a lot of time to think things over because in this country, you have a road within eyesight of everywhere you might be and the coyotes know that. As far as the early chargers that show right up, that's a matter of not having to set up 500 yards away from them, but rather, getting right into their living room and shocking the crap out of them. Why bring them across a vast open space they seriously don't want to cross when you can get closer to them and give them the opportunity to make that approach while remaining well within their security levels? Give them an approach corridor that offers them some cover, set up so you have a vantage point overlooking that cover, and make them pay for it. For someone who brags so freely about how effective you are at not running into an open space and stirring all the coyotes up, I'd think you would have mastered this methodology already. The fact that you are calling coyotes across hundreds of yards of open ground , whether in South Dakota or elsewhere, tells me that your "call shy" coyotes aren't nearly as pressured as my coyotes are. Maybe you consider an hour or two of your time invested in bringing a coyote across a wide open field an accomplishment worthy of bragging. I guess it is, but if I know where they're laying up,I'd much rather withdraw and redeploy in a manner that cuts down all that wasted time "working them" while producing the same outcome. Smarter, not harder. In places like SD where roads are few and far between, you don't often have the luxury of driving around the section and making your approach from a better angle. But, then again, I'm smart enough to be aware of and acknowledge that.

I don't consider my coyotes to be "call shy". I consider them to be sick and tired of having their asses filled with bird shot, and being shot at by every truck going down the road and, because of this, having very little security in their surroundings. Although "call shy" is certainly one factor, it's only part of a much more complex set of circumstances that adversely impact how easily a coyote can be called or approached in certain areas. If you honestly think the behavior they express during the late season is solely because of unskilled recreational hunters setting up poorly and shooting even worse, your thought processes are severely limited. I applaud your attempt to be more agreeable and play well with others, but you let your guard down and your ass-hatiness is showing through again.

Oh, and I almost forgot,...

[ January 29, 2011, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 29, 2011, 10:20 PM:
 

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More like you having a lot of time to waste when you would be better off getting after the next set of fresh ears.

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