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Author
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Topic: Opinion: FoxproScorpion Charge Light/ Night Hunting
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted November 03, 2010 03:48 AM
Last night I went out night hunting for the second time this year in PA. The previous day we had high winds here in in the NE and today it was calm. There was no moonlight either. I had my Foxpro Scorpion placed 15 yards in front of me on the ground with the charge light facing me (don't know about the other Foxpro models but the charge light stays on when the Scorpion is on). I was hunting in hardwoods in an elevated deer stand. Around 7:20 pm I mute the caller and listen. I can hear something walking in the dry leaves and coming my direction from my right front. I activate the caller again on low volume. The animal, whatever it was, and I am thinking dog size animal by the amount of noise it made, circled around and came from behind my right shoulder, and stopping probably within ten yards of me. I had my shotgun trained in the direction of the Scorpion and waited. I didn't move a muscle. Well the animal stopped for a few moments, then turned and went back the way it came. I tried a few howls for good measure but had no further response.
Now for the opinion part....is it possible the charge light spooked its confidence? There was no wind, and as I said I didn't move. The only noise I made came from my heart beat.
Thanks,
Nick
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fgf4
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posted November 03, 2010 04:41 AM
What color is the light?
Since it is an LED it has a very specific light frequency. If it is green, then yes, it could have spooked the animal or even illuminated you sitting there.
I believe Leonard or one of the guys here recently tried a green LED(or laser?)scope light that did spook the critters.
Edited for spelling and to add laser... ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
[ November 03, 2010, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: Nikonut ]
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted November 03, 2010 06:11 AM
Yes it is a green light Nikon...
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RagnCajn
ADDS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Member # 879
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posted November 03, 2010 07:37 AM
It is my opinion, he got your scent. With no wind, you sceent will disperse around you. He gt just enough of you to turn him around.
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted November 03, 2010 07:40 AM
Could be that too Cajn. It was close. I was 15" off the ground in a stand, but I understand thermals fall at night.
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted November 05, 2010 05:56 AM
Hi Nick,
From my limited experience here at night, coyotes come to the call with a purpose. So, if you heard the cadence of 'walking' in the leaves, it was prolly a curious deer checking out your calls, not a coyote...
When the animal left, did it walk away in the same fashion as it approached, or did it 'booger'?
Do you have skunks in those woods? I've called in a couple of skunks at night, and they just kinda lumber up toward the call, stop for a while & then keep on going. When moving through fallen leaves, they make enough noise to be mistaken for a larger critter...
I'm constantly amazed at how a coyote can 'tippeee toe' through the woods with nary a sound. Heck, a gray squirrel makes more noise than a coyote!
What kind of light were you using to ID?
No way to get a beam on the critter at 10yds?
Can't comment on what spooked the animal's confidence if I don't know what animal it was.
If you did call a coyote in to 10yds, and didn't get it shot, or at least ID'ed in the light, then that little green light on your caller is the least of your worries.
Not trying to insult you, just sayin' your question seems silly to me?
Fred
[ November 05, 2010, 05:59 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 05, 2010 12:12 PM
Iremember something that old fossel Vic Carlson said many years ago, in reference to flashes of light spooking a coyote..maybe it was a cat, I don't remember, but same deal.
He said, if an animal would be spooked by a reflection, he would be running day and night plumb out of the county, and beyond.
Okay, to answer your question, the same thing could be said about light, artificial and natural; moon, stars, airplanes and fixed and stationary sources....not to mention vehicle headlights.
All animals, in this country, see sources of light all the time, consider it a natural part of the environment, and are not spooked by it. The exception might be shining a spotlight directly in their eyes, yeah, that might spook them.
In your description, the animal didn't seen spooked, just satisfied it's curiosity and moved on. You never said WHAT SOUND was playing on your machine? I have personally called a huge variety of animals, even including snakes. But, it "could" have been a coyote, and I base that on the fact that it didn't approach the caller directly, instead, getting behind you, whether charging or sneaking, chances are that a deer wouldn't bothered doing that? A bobcat matches the described behavior a little more than a coyote, except that they make no attempt to get downwind, which, in this case, because it was calm, was not a factor.
Whatever it was, behind you and more than fifteen yards away, to me, it seems doubtful that it could see a light, on the ground? Sure, you could, in the tree, but maybe he couldn't? In any case, (whatever it was), it knew where your caller was, because they can triangulate sound very easily.
Assume "it" caught your scent, walking out the fifteen yards, and approaching the location in the first place, you still leave a lot of stink in the general area, and it is a lot more likely that he smelled you than was spooked by a little green pilot light. Any animal is capable of catching your scent, so that is a high probability, whereas seeing a green light is pure guesswork.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted November 05, 2010 05:18 PM
Thanks for the opinions. So it is doubtful the light spooked whatever it was, and was more likely my scent that spooked it. Fair enough. As they say, that's hunting...
Fred...I have been deer hunting since the age of 11, or maybe 10. Those were not deer footsteps. The animal, whatever it was, left in pretty much the same fashion as it came. Maybe a little less cautious, but it definately didn't booger out of there. Yep, I agree it could have been a skunk, raccoon, or opossum, although my gut feeling says it was something larger. I could have have looked to the right, as I was wearing a headlamp, but I didn't want to spook it, hoping it was a coyote. My plan for hunting in the thick stuff at night is to let the coyote go to the caller, and into my site picture. The little experience I have night hunting in woods has taught me that any movement I make at these close distances will spook the animals. And I couldn't readily swing my shotgun over my right shoulder, because I am right handed. I can shoot from my left shoulder, but that would have created more noise and movement. I don't know how much night hunting you have done in the woods, but I think you know what I mean in regards to spooking close animals. Fred I don't claim to be a savvy hunter by any means. I am just a regular joe who wants to kill some coyotes at night, and is learning as he goes along. It seems to me, more or less, that the only silly question is the one we don't ask...
Leonard, I was using Cal Taylor's cottontail distress.
Thanks for the replies.
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted November 08, 2010 08:29 AM
Gotcha.
Believe me, I'm just starting to get these fawkers figured out a little bit. Don't consider myself 'savvy' by any means, but every trip out adds a 'wrinkle' to my thick brain as to what works & what don't (for me).
You are absolutely right about asking questions.
I responded to yours because your description of the events on stand just didn't have the makings of a coyote encounter. I've been burned enough to know what that flame feels like, and my experiences have been different than what you described.
A coyote with a nose full of human scent is gonna get outta Dodge City like his butt caught fire, NOT ease back away from the direction it approached from.
This is the main reason why I suspect you did not call a coyote in on that stand.
A deer, on the other hand, is a very curious animal. A young, dumb 1.5yr old buck will do exactly as you described, especially at night.
Circle to the downwind, out of curiousity.
Check the wind.
Catch a whiff & ease back in the direction it came.
I've had this happen to me, more than once.
A skunk (or coon, possum) will also check out a distress sound. I suspect a fisher would too, if you have them there?
All the above will pick an easy meal, if given the opportunity.
Given that you were using a prey distress sound, any or all of the above are a possibility, as I've had similar encounters at night. That is precisely why I don't hunt IN the woods at night, and haven't for a good while now.
Bobcat? I never called one, so can't comment. They don't live in the area where I spend the most time calling. Makes sense that it might be though, if the downwind approach was coincidental on the cat's part?
But my experiences with coyotes here at night is that they've got BALLZ. Very BOLD to the call, like they OWN the night. I've had them run down the middle of a highway & pizz in my boot tracks at night. Even had one make a scratching & take a dump in it on a night stand.
That is why I now prefer to call them in the day. Their movements can be more predictable, and their approach more accurately guesstimated beforehand.
Set the trap & hope for the best.
At night, all bets are off! In my limited experience, a coyote will pile into your stand from wherever they happen to be at the time. BOLD & BALLZY. They don't 'sneak' at night, least not the few that I've killed.
But 'chit, I'm just wind baggin' here so take it for what it's worth.
But for goodness sakes, GET OUTTA the woods at NIGHT!
And GET OUTTA that dang treestand!
If this "cityiot" can kill 'em off my butt in the daytime, then you damn well can too! Besides, you've been hunting ALOT longer than me, so that must account for something, right?
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
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posted November 08, 2010 03:49 PM
My observations, for what they’re worth.
Regardless of color, intensity, focus, diffusion, LED or Halogen, IR or Visible Spectrum… coyotes can see lights. Their ability to *SEE* a light source at night is very similar to their ability to *SMELL* humans. It’s a given. Whether the source (light or scent) alarms them or not is another topic altogether, but never convince yourself that a coyote cannot *SEE* a light.
As Leonard said, when I read your post I simply pictured a critter that satisfied his curiosity and moved on. Perhaps a hard charging territorial coyote or starving fox would’ve charged the speaker and offered you a shot: but I’d venture to say the majority of predators you’re going to call in the hardwoods are going to satisfy their curiosity long before you get a shot with your current game plan.
If hunting the “big woods” in New York is anything like the 200,000 acre tract of hilly hardwoods in my back yard, it’s going to be tough to kill coyotes in there at night. You’re going to get a lot of “Fly-By’s” and it’ll be hard to lock-on targets if the sound source isn’t lined up with your light source.
The best advice I can give you in that terrain is to find some openings and exploit them. Power lines, log roads, fire trails, horse trails, abandoned railroads and timber clear cuts offer a little extra visibility & reaction time. They also offer the predators a “path of least resistance” as they cruise toward the sound. This makes them more predictable. Given the choice between a 100 yard straight-shot up a log road, or a 200 yard downwind circle in the hardwoods, most lightly pressured coyotes will come down the road at night. If the shit hits the fan, they know one quick leap to either side puts them back in the thick stuff and over the ridge.
The last tidbit I can offer is, shoot while they’re running. Waiting on them to stop… or barking to make them… will often result in a sidestepping coyote. Under lights it can be difficult to read the subtle body language that says “Oh Shit!”. Before you start calling, illuminate the clearing (roadway/ect) with a good light and predetermine the range you are comfortable shooting. Keep some visual markers in mind and dump them when they get there. Shooting running coyotes, and often shooting freehand, are prerequisites to night hunting in tight cover around here.
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4949shooter
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posted November 08, 2010 04:12 PM
LOL Fred I think in a nice way you are trying to tell me I don't know what I am doing. Maybe you are right in a sense, as I am applying deer hunting techiques to coyote hunting. I think we had this discussion about calling the fields at night earlier in the year. I intend to take your advice when the NJ night season opens up, when I will have a few more places to call. My PA spot doesn't have much in the way of fields, or openings.
Jrb, the one thing I am still wondering about this whole light issue is the fact that I don't believe coyotes are used to seeing light coming directly from the source of the distress sound. As Leonard has said, there are lights on houses, utility poles, vehicles, etc. that the coyotes might be used to. But directly from the caller? It makes me wonder, in that if that were indeed a coyote I called in, it saw something it didn't like (the light on the caller) and decided to leave, without otherwise being spooked.
Any other insight offered would be appreciated.
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Leonard
HMFIC
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posted November 08, 2010 07:17 PM
49, the response has already been given. A coyote is not afraid of an LED. If, (big if) it was a coyote, he left because he smelled you. A coyote is not particularly shy of light, even if it is coming from the direction of your caller. That's how I'm betting.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
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posted November 08, 2010 09:01 PM
If you're still not convinced, put a piece of tape over it.
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fgf4
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posted November 08, 2010 11:48 PM
I'd have to agree that a coyote wouldn't be scared off by the flashing LED itself.
Given the nature of those green led's and a coyotes supposed sensitivity to green light... if it really was a coyote... it could have seen YOU illuminated by the light. More than likely you got winded regardless of what it was and there again I agree, probably wasn't a coyote.
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Leonard
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posted November 09, 2010 01:01 AM
You been messing with Sasquatch, maybe?
Good hunting. ElBee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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4949shooter
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posted November 09, 2010 04:44 AM
Wow you guys are tough.
Okay, okay....Sasquatch smelled me.
I am hoping to get out as much as I can this month before the PA deer season starts. It might be tough with both my boys' football teams going into the playoffs. I will keep you posted if anything new develops.
Tom, I will take your advice. Although the light apparently wasn't the cause, it wouldn't hurt to take it out of the equation completely.
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted November 09, 2010 11:22 AM
quote:
...as I am applying deer hunting techiques to coyote hunting.
bingo, bango, bongo!
I'm continually learning that you must hunt coyotes here with a more dynamic & diversified approach then you would a deer.
Sure, if a deer stand happens to be close to where the terrain & conditions are right to make a coyote stand, then I'll climb right in! Otherwise, I will try to set up so that an approaching coyote will most assuredly have to expose itself. And ideally, do so long enough for me to get it shot...
(KJ taught me that & I thank him for it!)
It sounds so simple & logical to do, but deducing that 'ideal' spot under ever changing conditions is quite the challenge. But when ya do it right and one does come, you KNOW that it
weren't no coincidence. Set the trap and lure them to it...good fun!
But again, the key is to figure when & how to set up just right to get them to that certain spot where you can see them (read: kill them) on the approach. It does no good to go into a 'good area' that you know should hold coyotes and call it, just to get busted!
I friggin' HATE that! And have since adapted my setups to minimize the chance of getting caught with ma' pants down.
Completely irrelevant to the 'night calling' section, but here goes anyway.
These two coyotes are from the 1st weekend of our coyote season in October. I only made THREE stands ALL weekend, but they were three GOOD stands! The one evening stand had action (a barker), but no confirmed fur sighting.
#1 was shot@ 170yds, at 8am. Called out across a cow pasture as it circled to the wind. There was NO way this coyote would smell me otherwise. She HAD to circle to smell me, and she did so right into where my gun barrel was pointed...
#2 was killed at 11yds, about 7:30am. I was calling in a cut row through a standing corn field. Completely different setup in completely different terrain, but the same result...a dead coyote.
That, to me is the challenge of calling coyotes. Deer stands are for killing deer from...
Keep after them, Nick! Lordy knows I'm still figuring 'em out...
[ November 09, 2010, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted November 09, 2010 02:18 PM
Nick, do ya'll have fireflies up there?
I know you have bed bugs but these is different, they fly around at night and their butt glows not unlike that led light...
Haven't seen a stampede yet caused by them.
but a piece of tape over it will cause you to look for another excuse. Being that close to a coyote is hard to go undetected no matter the wind.
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted November 09, 2010 04:20 PM
I gotcha Tom. I am not gonna go crazy with the light thing. Maybe I will just push some leaves or snow in front of it just because. I kinda like the light facing up though...it helps me find the damn thing in the dark.
Fred, I don't doubt your calling ability one bit. I have been following your posts for a while now and you do some damn fine callin' and killin' for a northeastern hunter. Now that having been said, I would bet that sleddog would have to disagree with you on applying the deer hunting techniques towards coyote hunting here in the NE. I am not trying to say he is any better of a coyote hunter than you...just different. Though I would like to have a front seat for the argument that would take place between you and he regarding NE coyote hunting tactics! Let's break out the popcorn, shall we?
Anyhoo, as stated I will take your advice and put same into practice when the Jersey night season opens in January. I appreciate all the input.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 09, 2010 04:32 PM
Boy, there's an event not to be missed. Northeastern predator hunters discussing methods. <snore> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Good hunting. LB
Sorta like the Gay Men's Choir singing "To all the girls I've loved before" (only different)
(just kidding, just kidding)
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted November 09, 2010 04:50 PM
quote:
Boy, there's an event not to be missed. Northeastern predator hunters discussing methods. <snore> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
LOL that's too funny Leonard!
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted November 09, 2010 06:26 PM
sleddog, I remember him he seemed to be a pretty good guy but seems like he advocated the 243 and 85gr game king bullets for ya'lls huge coyotes. Seems the puny 223 would bounce off.
Fred any truth to this? C'mon don't let him take the title.
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted November 09, 2010 08:37 PM
Sleddog, DOD, Al Woodard, Keekee... all these "great eastern hunters", faded into the dust of history.... don't hear much from any of 'em anymore? ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Night hunting in the woods... you can have my share of that!
Krusty 
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
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Dan Carey
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posted November 09, 2010 10:05 PM
"Seems the puny 223 would bounce off."
Everyone knows that.
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted November 10, 2010 06:25 AM
LB, reading your last post made me almost spit half a mouthful of Kashi cereal all over the computer screen! Just caught myself in time, but a few high fiber grains did make it into the crevices of my keyboard!
(ssssorry iif sssssome of my keyssss are sssstickiiing)
thanks for that!!!
OK, all cleaned up.
Nick, from where I'm concerned, there is nothing to argue about, cause ya can't argue with success.
However, given that sled seemingly does kill his fair share and has been predator hunting ALOT longer than I, of course I've read & considered his 'strategy'. So then, for the sake of conversation, here's where I'm at and why I hunt the way I do.
(Leonard, please cue the music )
If I can call & kill coyotes on the ground, then why should I burden myself with carrying a climber?
Or hang stands in the off season, for coyotes???
What benefit would an elevated platform covering ONE location afford ME when the movements of a group of coyotes can cover MILES in a 24hr period?
I've got limited time to hunt, so I need to FIND the coyotes & get CLOSE to them. What if I hear coyotes howling at night where there are no trees to climb to call them from the next morning?
Or...
Say I'm on the way to town & happen to see a coyote cross a pasture and go into a 100 acre woodlot up on the hill behind it. Am I supposed endure the effort of draggin a climber up into THAT woodlot, unpack it & set it up (in complete silence), select a tree & climb it (in complete silence) and THEN start calling?
Sorry, but F-dat noise! I'll check the wind & sneak my azz up in there, sit down and hopefully whack that sucka!
Like I mentioned above, IF a deer stand happens to be close to where I want to call from, then I sure as heck will climb up in there. But I dang sure ain't draggin' a stand around, or setting stands before the season JUST to call coyotes from.
Deer tactics don't work for coyotes because coyotes ain't deer! Predator vs. PREY, no comparison.
I set my deer stands to cover:
1. escape travel routes
2. scrape lines
3. FOOD
And I kill the 'chit outta deer every year from stands. It's a waiting game (PASSIVE approach) before a deer comes through to catch an arrow or a bullet.
BUT,I can't apply that same logic to a coyote, because the go WHERE they want, WHEN they want to. So, I believe a predator hunter needs an AGGRESSIVE approach to keep up with an aggressive animal.
Sure you can narrow down coyote's travel corridors (to a degree), but not to the extent of covering that area reliably with a treestand.
So unless you've got treestands providing overwatch for a series of deadpiles (FOOD), I cannot see the logic of limiting yourself to the confines of a treestand. That is NOT an accusation, by the way. Just looking at things with my warped sense of 'logic'...
Do you know of anyone who sits in treestands to call gobblers in the spring? I sure don't.
Turkeys are always on the move and they can be a mile down the ridge gobblin' their fool heads off while you sit in your "well placed" treestand and try to CALL them to YOU?
That doesn't make ANY sense to me at all. Not trying to put turkey calling & coyote calling on a parallel, but the MO of getting one killed is the same...I.E., calling THEM to YOU.
So why then would sitting stand make any sense for calling coyotes? It just plain don't...
And I won't even go into the dangers of trying to climb up a tree when it's 2 friggin degrees out and you're bundled up like the Michelin Man against the cold. Thanks, but I'll keep my azz in a snowdrift...
See, told ya there's nothing to argue about!
Remember, the whole idea is to CALL THEM to where you can kill them!
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