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Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on March 31, 2010, 08:49 PM:
I guess if you do this long enough, you will eventually get the itch to night hunt. Night hunting looks like it would be a whole lot of fun. What got me interested is talking to another caller who has more knowledge than me about this aspect of calling. I was in the middle of reading all of your night hunting threads regarding this subject when the lights went out. I’m sure glad you paid the electric bill Leonard. Thank You
First off, Az will never allow for night hunting. The AZ G&F LEOs are all against it. So it looks like California, Nevada, and New Mexico are going to be paid some visits by me. This caller I was talking to last weekend said that some guys will call and scan from the truck while driving which begs two questions: Will this work or is he full of it? Where is it legal?
A few years ago I read the CA regulations and they gave an actual description of the area of the state that it is legal call at night. Problem is I didn’t recognize any of the landmarks. Generally speaking where can you legally hunt coyotes at night in CA. I’ve heard the Mohave Desert its legal. I just hope they can keep the roads open over there. What special rules do they have besides no ARs? Would I need a CA small game license? Are there areas that I could hunt along the Colorado River since it is close to Az.
I just read the Nevada rules. I found them rather interesting. They list things like legal times to hunt with the wording stating that game animals must be hunted from sunrise to sunset. Coyotes are considered non game. Since they are non-game, is a license needed in Nev? If so how much? Are there any special rules in Nev.
Utah state laws allow for night hunting and don’t require a license for just hunting coyotes. However, it is up to each county to decide if they want to permit night hunting. I called Utah’s G&F and the guy was kinda stupid about this subject because he wasn’t too sure what counties permitted night hunting if any at all.
New Mexico sounds interesting but I know nothing about NM. Any information would be very helpful..
I read Danny Batastini’s thread on coyote hunting on Predator Professionals. It was a great read. He also posted some pictures that appear to have the camper rigged for shooting from the truck. There is also a picture in there where the speaker is mounted in front of the grill. This supports some things that I’ve heard. I guess it all boils down to what is legal in your area and/or do you feel lucky punk(where have I heard this before). Maybe some guys work the call and lights from the truck while the shooter is off the road. I simply don’t have a clue about night hunting other than what Leonard posted. That made for some great reading Leonard. Thanks again.
Danny’s thread:
http://predatorprofessionals.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=461
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2010, 12:05 AM:
Nevada is your best bet as they don't have complicated borders, but some counties are closed to night hunting, and sometimes during big game seasons? Anywhere along the Colorado is a little too populated for decent night hunting, especially for a beginner. The problem with calling Fish and Game for info, in just about any state is that they may not know what the hell they are talking about, but are more than willing to tell you no. So, that's a waste of time. Better to read the regulations and/or game codes yourself. I have been told, you need to be licensed in your home state to hunt coyotes in Nevada, but as far as I know, they do not require a NV hunting license to hunt badgers and coyotes. In CA, you need a hunting license to even plink at cans.
Hunting from a vehicle is not allowed, in many places, under many circumstances. I'm not real comfortable giving advice on this subject, too many interpretations and jurisdictions. Some places, they want you to tell them where you are going to be. Of course, the reason given is so that they know about it, and don't get excited about poachers when the reports come in about spotlighting, and (therefore) they can stay in bed. You can pretty much count on them being there to jack you up, so you are wasting your time to advise them, prior to hunting.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 01, 2010, 07:39 AM:
I found out what a waste of time it is to call G&F while visiting Utah. The guy absolutely didn't have a clue. I can see I need some Dykemed fog lights for the truck for the drive in. I also will need to have a kill switch for the brake lights with a LED warning light inside the truck to warn me that brake lights are off(no highway use). Dykem is readily available at MSC industrial supply.
While reading the threads on this site, I saw where you guys were discusing a flipper light. I can see some real advantages with the dual light setup like you use Leonard. A Dykemed fog lamp with wide dispersion and an aircraft landing spot light for burning the coyote. You mentioned that you need to set the switch up so there is a very short delay on turning off the fog lamp while the spot light element lights up. Why not simply leave the red light on the whole time? As far as Mr Coyote eye's are concerned, the spotlight will wash out the red.
quote:
Nevada is your best bet as they don't have complicated borders, but some counties are closed to night hunting, and sometimes during big game seasons?
I take it you are refering to California having complicated borders and each Cal. county has their own regulations as far as night hunting?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2010, 08:23 AM:
No, it would be okay if night hunting was closed according to counties, in CA. It is more like geographical features.
That comment about spotlights is in reference to the fact that it takes a moment for the element to reach full brilliance, in a sealed beam bulb. You don't want your light to fade slightly while switching. We are talking about a refinement and the issue is probably lost on 99% of the population? Besides, that application is for using a one or two ohm resister instead of a potentiometer, which is far lighter.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 02, 2010, 06:35 AM:
Leonard: I'm going to start building my first spot light set up. How many inches of shroud do you put ahead of the fog lamb. One would want the wide dispersion, but you don't want the glare bothering the shooter either.
Once I get this thing built, I'm going to try it out close to home sans rifle. We have some urban coyotes just minutes from my house.
Do you believe it would be possible to get some good photographs of urban coyotes at night. I would like to at least shoot'em with a camera.
Thanks for all the help.
[ April 02, 2010, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: Aznative ]
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 02, 2010, 08:03 AM:
Since any type of hunting from a vehicle is illegal here in NY, I modified a monopod to hold a Lightforce 170. CAn swivel the light 180 degrees left to right with one hand and shoot right over top of it...
Pan to the right...
and to the left...
(Please excuse the toes)
Admittedly, this setup only gets dragged out if I'm calling over a BIG field. Otherwise, the good ol' Streamlight Ultrastinger is good enough to light up eyes out to 150yds. And MUCH easier to tote around...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 02, 2010, 08:34 AM:
Thanks for the pics!
Interesting 'jammies!
Good hunting. LB
edit: some people like a 10" shroud but for your application, I don't see why you would need more than four inches, or so?
[ April 02, 2010, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 02, 2010, 06:49 PM:
Thanks Leonard.
I found an Case IH tractor dealer. I use to work on Intertrashtional Harvester tractors. They used a very neat rubber grommet to fender mount the headlamps. The grommet will absorb shocks and greatly simplify mounting the seal beam. After it gets in, I'll be looking for an aircraft landing spot light and a fog light that will fit. These grommets worked on about a 4.5" dia sealed beam lamps. I also have a tin smith available to do some custom work for the shroud assembly.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 02, 2010, 07:11 PM:
There are a few reasons why you need to roll your own custom shroud, but mostly you can find cans that are quite serviceable. Many people just use the one pound coffee can. Wth the ribs, they are quite durable.
Most people just silicone the beams in place. I never used a special grommet before? If the bulb burns out, you need to break it and cut out the pieces, but they seem to last a long time?
Building your own light is something almost all serious night hunters do. Several times, in fact.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 03, 2010, 07:19 AM:
I worked for a local school district for 26 years in the skilled trades department as a mechanic for most of it. The last five years I was in charge of the whole department with 80 people under me. We had plumbers, electricians, AV repair, security alarm techs even two locksmiths. We were responsible for 4 million sq ft of building space. My point is a sheetmetal man that still works there stores his RV on my acre lot. I can get him to make me just about anything. I can have a shroud custom rolled out of aluminum sheet metal any diameter that I want. It is good to have connections.
Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on April 03, 2010, 08:15 AM:
I've rigged up several shrouds over the years but each one posed a variety of problems. Primarily aukwardness during transport.
In my area we cannot hunt from a motorized conveyance and private land access means you're driving to several different locations each night. Getting in/out of a vehicle with a rifle and attached light is annoying enough, but the shroud always seemed to get broken/bent or kept the rifle from safely resting in the truck. If you're going to make 10 stands in a night, that's 20 sessions of loading/unloading the weapon into the truck along with crossing numerous fences and briar patches. It seemed a shroud could either be "durable" or "Convenient" but not both.
At the Expo in Columbus I was introduced to a new product. Ernie Wilson was displaying the product although he did not manufactur or sell them... he gave me a business card for the fella who does. I just found that card in my office and figured I would pass along the information here.
What he's making is a neoprene shroud that mounts onto your light and allows flexibility along with durability. The neoprene is also soft and "quiet" during those long walks through fields/woods unlike 28 gauge aluminum or hard plastic. The "front" of the shroud has a wire ring under the neoprene that allows it to hold form even after being twisted and contorted during transport or travel. I took a good look at the material and design and must admit I'm impressed. It's probably worth $20.
"Boondock Outdoors Website"
PS: This has been a paid commercial program for Boondock Outdoors. Order now and recieve a free no-stick skillet and 6" fillet knife.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 03, 2010, 08:30 AM:
For what you describe, Jason, I agree. It looks to have merit.
Just remember, az, aluminum dents pretty good when stepped on.
What I used in my superposed is track lighting, gutted and tack welded together. The ballance is centered over the hand, so it's important to position the handle that way. You don't want it barrel heavy.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 03, 2010, 05:03 PM:
Track lighting sounds interesting. What made me think of the rubber boot used on those old tractors is I'm tough on stuff. My wife and kids think I should be a professional tester because if I can't break it, it has to be good.
Also, I was always very proud of what the shops(what we called our operation at the school district) could do. They were a great bunch of guys with a whole lot of talent. On my last post I went over the top a little. I don't want anybody thinking I was boasting. I got the feeling that I boasted a little too much while driving out to ben avery shooting range with my grandson this morning. We went shooting this morning, and grandson is becoming a very profecient shot.
JRBhunter: I've already checked out Boondock outdoors website. I like the idea of a rubber shroud. I just need to figure out how to set it up as a dual light system.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on April 03, 2010, 06:51 PM:
That Ben Avery range looks like a nice place.
Talking to people about my future move to AZ, it has been mentioned a few times to me.
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 04, 2010, 07:53 AM:
It is said to be the largest shooting facility in the US if not the world. It is also called windy Avery. The problem with it is the public range only has 200 yards max available for the public to use. To shoot further you need to be a club member to use one of the longer ranges. To use the high power range you have to show up with two club members so as to have one shooter and one target spotter. It has a walking archery range, trap, skeet, five stand, cowboy action, small bore silhouette, large bore silhouette, rimfire, practical pistol, bench rest, small bore, high power and a public range with concrete benches and target pockets set at 5 yds to 200 yds.
It is real convenient for me being 10 miles up the I17 from my home. It takes less than 20 minutes to get there from my door step. There I go bragging again.
Edited in: It is also only 7 bucks to shoot from when they open until they close.
[ April 04, 2010, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: Aznative ]
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on April 04, 2010, 01:36 PM:
A shooter and spotter both just to use the highpower range? That stinks. I can spot for myself out to 300. And anything farther than that I don't mind taking a walk or a drive out to the target to check my hits.
Ah well. How much is it to join?
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 05, 2010, 06:39 AM:
Sorry about this but I don't really know. There are a couple of different clubs that would work. There is lots of BLM and Forest service land that you can get to in about an hour that is legal to shoot upon. State trust lands are ok, but it is considered an illegal activity, but if you are safe and far enough away from the valley it just isn't enforced. I've had sheriff's drive right past me while on state trust land shooting.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on April 05, 2010, 07:57 AM:
Safford has rifle, pistol, & archery ranges. Free. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Public land in all four directions. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Even some water to fish in. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
And I haven't found a rattlesnake or a scorpian in my yard yet this year. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on April 05, 2010, 11:52 AM:
I'll check out Safford as well.
Thanks.
Edit: Based on what you asaying AZ, I might have a lot of questions for you and koko when I make my move out there if you don't mind.
[ April 05, 2010, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 05, 2010, 12:10 PM:
Safford is probably ? 200 miles from Ben Avery, so you would be going probably wherever is closest to home, I would imagine? There is a range at 3 corners, west of Tucson on hwy 86, so that is a real possibility, if you relocate south/central? If you don't mind the drive, my club is only 325 miles west of Phoenix. We have everything except a 1000 yard range, and it is owned by the membership, not leased as is many others. The oldest and perhaps the best public and membership shooting range in Southern California was voted out of existance by some prick neighbors, after about 50 years of what they feared happening, not happening. Crying shame, but lesson learned. The majority will trample the rights of the minority every chance they get.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on April 05, 2010, 01:07 PM:
I might have to look at western Arizona Leonard. It might be a prosepect anyway with night hunting not being allowed in the state.
Can I shoot my AR's on a California range?
Any nice areas in western AZ to look at? I am looking for a nice neighborhood and shopping area in close proximity to good docters.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 05, 2010, 01:38 PM:
There is much available west of Phoenix. Avondale, Buckeye, Surprise, etc. Wickenburg is a nice little town. Gila Bend? The possibilities are endless.
Good hunting. LB
edit: AR's? I really don't know?
[ April 05, 2010, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Briguy (Member # 3471) on April 05, 2010, 01:56 PM:
If you really were looking west of Phoenix, there is a nice range in Buckeye. It was remodeled by the county, owned by the county, but run by the Buckeye Sportsmans Club. Joe Foss Shooting Range is the name of it. Same $7 per day to shoot there, or if you are a member of the sportsman's club, it's free as long as an RSO is there.
Like LB said, if you wanted to stay fairly close (30 minutes or less to downtown Phoenix) to town, but still have that small town feel, the west valley (Avondale, Goodyear, Buckeye, etc.) is not a bad way to go.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on April 05, 2010, 02:22 PM:
Thanks guys.
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 06, 2010, 05:34 PM:
FYI: I've heard that the buckeye range is limited to 200 yards too. IMHO: Wickenburg is a great place to retire. Property values are a little high out there however.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on April 06, 2010, 07:11 PM:
Thanks.
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 09, 2010, 06:25 AM:
Getting back to the subject of this thread:
Leonard
I have a couple of additional questions. I'm looking at the Wagner 4509 aircraft spotlight landing light. It is rated at 100w. I'm also looking at at 35w fog light. The problem I see is the lights are both 4.5" dia. You mentioned earlier that you superimposed these lights. Would you please elaborate upon this tidbit?
Also, I plan on using a resistor to reduce the light output on the fog lamp. I figure I can go with less dykem and thereby reduce battery consumption. At 35 watts of consumption, a 7AH gell cell is going to be dead after two or three stands. If I can reduce the consumption and dim the light the propet amount, it is a win win. Do you have a suggested resistor value or range of values to start with? I'm thinking of looking at some automotive AC blower resistor blocks. They have a combination of different resistors and should have the wattage capacity in need. I can probably configure a switch that can use the different resistors or combinations of resistors to achieve different results in the field. An AC blower on a car pulls about 120 watts at full power.
Thanks for the help.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 09, 2010, 09:00 AM:
Getting back to the subject of this thread:
Leonard
I have a couple of additional questions. I'm looking at the Wagner 4509 aircraft spotlight landing light. It is rated at 100w.
Response: I don't know this item. If it is a 13volt 100watt aircraft landing light, I have to assume that it is adequate for your purpose?
I'm also looking at at 35w fog light. The problem I see is the lights are both 4.5" dia. You mentioned earlier that you superimposed these lights. Would you please elaborate upon this tidbit?
Response: Again, I don't know about 35Watt, fog lights, all the one's that I have used are 55watt. I don't know if you consider both lights the same diameter as a problem of some sort, but it is not a problem. The top light should be the fog and the one closest to the hand should be the spot, an ergonomic consideration, for precise aiming.
Also, I plan on using a resistor to reduce the light output on the fog lamp. I figure I can go with less dykem and thereby reduce battery consumption. At 35 watts of consumption, a 7AH gell cell is going to be dead after two or three stands. If I can reduce the consumption and dim the light the propet amount, it is a win win. Do you have a suggested resistor value or range of values to start with? I'm thinking of looking at some automotive AC blower resistor blocks. They have a combination of different resistors and should have the wattage capacity in need. I can probably configure a switch that can use the different resistors or combinations of resistors to achieve different results in the field. An AC blower on a car pulls about 120 watts at full power.
Response: Okay, wrong concept. The resistor does nothing to reduce current consumption, it acts like a sponge, or filter, to prohibit the full amperage from reaching the bulb element.
Further, this is a wrong application, when using a dual bulb system. The use of a resister is when you are using a single bulb spotlight which is the lightest method of choking down the output so you can use the spot for hunting and switching to full amperage for the burn light.
A 55watt fog doesn't need any further reduction, except the application of one or more coats of red Dykem. Trust me, this is the only dimming you will need. Forget a puzzle of different resistor blocks, as I said, that application is only suitable for spotlights, not foglights. And, if you use it for that purpose you need to remember to insulate the resistor because they get hot enough to melt plastic. Go to an electronics shop and get a 1ohm, or 2ohm resistor, don't bother with anything else, as you are getting close to reinventing the wheel, here.
A 7ah battery won't last one stand, if you have a cat coming in. Wrong application. You need a much bigger capacity, maybe like what they use in those portable batteries for jumping your vehicle engine. They make light weight aircraft batteries that still provide a lot of current, but if you use sealed lead/acid, you need to have two and probably switch them on every stand, using an inverter.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 09, 2010, 12:46 PM:
Thanks Leonard, your last post cleared up a bunch of wrong perceptions.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 09, 2010, 01:06 PM:
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 09, 2010, 01:17 PM:
This light is made with track light shrouds spotwelded together and a bead of silicone along each side for stiffness.
You can see that the ballance is right where the handle is, if you consider the weight is primarily the bulbs. The shroud is minimal, as far as I'm concerned barely adequate, but adequate nonetheless, when you know how to (properly) use a light.
The red tint is from repeated applications of red Dykem overspray, which doesn't hurt anything. You need to wipe it off occasionally, and redo it, based on your hunting conditions, of which there are two. Heavy cover, on the one hand, and bright moon conditions, on the other.
I know of nothing that removes Dykem except Dykem remover? If you are happy with the tint, it will last for many years. It's damned near bulletproof, never scorches as does red paint. If you try real hard, you can scratch it with a very sharp knife, but otherwise, it's on there for good.
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on April 11, 2010, 07:03 PM:
Thanks for the great picture Leonard. You light is how I originally envisioned my light. When I heard superimposed, I was thinking one light needed to be bigger and behind the smaller light.
I've been reading up on lighting to be become better informed. I found this link that help clarify CP vs Lumens:
http://www.pinnacleflashlights.com/blog/2009/04/30/lumens-vs-candlepower-sorting-through-advertising-gimmicks/
Using the above information, I'm better able to understand the specs given in this GE chart:
http://www.gelighting.com/na/business_lighting/education_resources/literature_library/catalogs/downloads/msb_43-52.pdf
The first link helps explain how a 35w light can have more candlepower than a 50w light. I'm going to try the fog light that I currently have, but I'm also going to set up a can to support a brighter/more powerful light at the same time. My sheet metal guy is going into surgery for his rotator cup in a month, and I would like to have some working models to test out before he is out of commission for three months.
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