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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 15, 2007, 06:38 PM:
 
I need you creatures of the night to help me out here, guys.

I'm currently in the early stages of undertaking a project to seek regulatory and statutory changes in how coyotes can be hunted in Kansas by asking for a new rule that allows coyotes to be called at night with the use of artificial light. At present, we cannot use fake light of any kind.

Under our current proposal, we're hoping that we can get our state wildlife agency's commission, or the state legislature, to create a provision that would allow us a season for hunting coyotes at night, from 1-1 to 3-31 each year, with artificial light as long as the hunter, caller and light are all separated from the vehicle.

We've established these dates and the vehicle separation points as a means of getting around the concerns we expect about poaching our beloved deer. (I know... Texas doesn't worry about poaching and gets along fine.)

Anyway, here's where I need input from respected, objective callers with a lot of experience. I'm trying to enlist the support of our furbearer biologist and he's somewhat on board, but seriously questions whether or not coyotes will be that much easier to call once they've survived a night hunt.

In short, are coyotes in areas where night hunting has been done for years still easier to call at night than they are in the daytime? Are there significant differences in calling success at night compared to day where night hunting is allowed?

Please know that I will be forwarding a link to this thread to our biologist and your comments may be used in support of this effort.

Thanks.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on October 15, 2007, 06:49 PM:
 
In short; Yes
 

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Posted by Steve Craig (Member # 12) on October 15, 2007, 07:56 PM:
 
My only experience in night hunting is in Indiana each and every year, and I have been doing so for over 40 years. I can honestly say that I can call 5-7 coyotes at night to every one I call in the daytime.
Indiana's laws are very similar to what you are trying to use there in Kansas. As long as the light is not attached to the vehicle and we can use any caliber we want.
FWIW
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on October 15, 2007, 08:59 PM:
 
Lance, I certainly don`t consider myself an expert at it but I do actually go out with the lights several times throughout the year. Not being able to spot or shoot from a vehicle creates enough challenges in & of itself that you`ll find only the die hards out calling coyotes in the middle of the night, it typically(not always) takes two callers that have their poop in a group & work well together to pull it off when you`re forced to be portable but that will be a whole other discussion.

From my experience it has been easier to call more coyotes at night, especially in areas that seem to be "tough" in daylight hours, of course on the flip side of that if I have good daytime areas I`ll almost always go that route just to avoid the extra effort needed to set a stand "away" from the vehicle at night.

It is productive from my viewpoint & I don`t have all the fancy equipment like LB & some of these guys from Texas.

Personally I don`t think the "poaching deer" argument holds any water at all, poachers are poachers & typically ANY law one way or the other has no bearing with them at all.

If I may ask, why the dates? is it to do with deer season? again...I don`t think poachers care much about seasons & the like....who knows though maybe this new generation of poachers are somewhat ethical in their criminal activities.



Best of luck to ya, although I`d try for year round & from a vehicle.......gotta think positive.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on October 16, 2007, 01:46 AM:
 
I have very little experience calling at night, but do have one thought on the subject.

If you allow law abiding hunters into the field at night don't you increase the number of eyes, ears, & cell phones to report poachers??
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 16, 2007, 04:31 AM:
 
JD,

The dates is because we anticipate a lot of resistance from the Law Enforcement Division of KDWP. During this period, or one approximating that time period, most of our deer should have shed already, thus eliminating the concern of poaching for racks. KDWP has pretty good numbers on actual mean shed dates to allow them to manage a late antlerless only season in Kansas and we figure we'd use that information to determine a start point. This period also coincides with the breeding and pre-denning period which would support arguments for this season as a means of helping to preventatively manage coyote numbers in high-number areas, but still allow callers in the field when the fur is somewhat salvageable.

Kokopelli,

Excellent point. Thanks.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on October 16, 2007, 06:12 AM:
 
Lance,

That's a pretty open ended pair of questions that you raised.

Numbers will vary from place to place and year to year. That makes it hard to give anyone real hard numbers. The best thing that you can do, is to get out and call various stands in the daylight. Then go back and make those same stands at night with a light and no gun, just counting eyeballs. Have other hunters in various parts of the State do the same thing, then go in with written numbers to support your claims.

Be prepared for arguments against it from both deer hunting organizations and Game Wardens. Who will claim that it will not only increase the number of deer poached, but upset the deer and change their habits and make it harder for the Wardens to capture the true poachers. Kokopelli just gave you a good statement that will help when confronted in meetings by those opposed to it due to poaching concerns. You might also check with the Game Departments in States like Texas, Nevada and New Mexico who all allow night hunting, ask them how many square miles their average Warden covers and compare that for your State. Kansas more than likely has a much higher density of Wardens. If those States don't have problems with less density of law enforcement, why would Kansas?

I wouldn't start out asking for just a small season, hit them at first for night hunting during all of the open season, that way you can have a "Concession" to make later to the deer hunting groups who might be opposed. If you hit them right, they may go from opposition to support.

One of the best things that you can do is to hire a well known and liked outdoor lobbyist. They are expensive, but worth every penny.

quote:

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but seriously questions whether or not coyotes will be that much easier to call once they've survived a night hunt.

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quote:

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I need you creatures of the night to help me out here, guys.

I'm currently in the early stages of undertaking a project to seek regulatory and statutory changes in how coyotes can be hunted in Kansas by asking for a new rule that allows coyotes to be called at night with the use of artificial light. At present, we cannot use fake light of any kind.

Under our current proposal, we're hoping that we can get our state wildlife agency's commission, or the state legislature, to create a provision that would allow us a season for hunting coyotes at night, from 1-1 to 3-31 each year, with artificial light as long as the hunter, caller and light are all separated from the vehicle.

We've established these dates and the vehicle separation points as a means of getting around the concerns we expect about poaching our beloved deer. (I know... Texas doesn't worry about poaching and gets along fine.)

Anyway, here's where I need input from respected, objective callers with a lot of experience. I'm trying to enlist the support of our furbearer biologist and he's somewhat on board, but seriously questions whether or not coyotes will be that much easier to call once they've survived a night hunt.

In short, are coyotes in areas where night hunting has been done for years still easier to call at night than they are in the daytime? Are there significant differences in calling success at night compared to day where night hunting is allowed?

Please know that I will be forwarding a link to this thread to our biologist and your comments may be used in support of this effort.

Thanks

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Okay, first of all, the regulation wonks will come up with their half baked reasons for seasons, and provisions without guidance or logical input from people that are versed on the subject. So, good luck, Lance. It is always easier, (and safer) to just say NO.

I would not limit your proposal to the first three months of the year, nor would I suggest that the lights used be unattached to a vehicle, of a low voltage, or not be attached to the firearm. The issue is hunting predators at night, NOT doing it with one hand tied behind your back as an intelectual exercise. Why fall into the trap? There are no valid reasons for the rules, if we understand that these animals are not large game and not small game, but (in fact) NON game. If some states choose to clasify them as furbearers and therefore regulate them, you have lost half of your battle right there.

So, in my opinion, decriminalizing predator hunting at night is not a license to poach deer, no more than selling a 300 horsepower vehicle is a license to drive 100 miles per hour. Law should not "allow" certain activities. Law should restrict certain specific activities, and should be supported by facts.

Hunting at night is much safer than hunting during daylight hours. You can take my word for it or not, but I can see houses and vehicles and roads and many things with the aid of a light, that I might not notice, during daylight. Some people are going to question that opinion without knowledge, which means that they are more comfortable with their ignorance than the considered opinion of a long time practioner; without an axe to grind, in this case.

Lance, this is where your question gets a little stupid!

"....seriously questions whether or not coyotes will be that much easier to call once they've survived a night hunt."

First of all, you know that you can call a coyote from a different location an hour after he is shot at. All it takes is a different set of circumstances, and (of course) you will not ever have a guarantee. There are smart coyotes and stupid coyotes, and that's the way it is.

I can tell you this much, having hunted coyotes at night since 1968, or so? I can hunt the same area at night and come back in the morning and it's a whole new world. In fact, where coyotes are hammered by dog hunters or road hunters during the day, they can be successfully hunted at night, in those same areas. The reverse is true.

Hunting coyotes at night is not going to "ruin" day hunting. I could take a cheap shot and suggest that you kill the animal, rather than educate them, but, I won't. Hunting them at night should not affect day hunting, unless and until you kill every last one in the county.

What will cause a problem is road hunters waving a light around. But, that is specific to night hunting. I do not believe that distress sounds associated with that sorry activity will make a coyote uncallable, on a day stand. Again, I have proved it to my own satisfaction by watching Utah road hunters drive by (on the pavement) with their spotlights, and maxed volume; and still called a coyote or two after they went on down the road.

The short answer is, it is not a valid concern. It's pure speculation without any data to back it up.

On to the next question. Coyotes are never easy, but I can say this: if you know what you are doing, you will kill probably twice as many animals at night than on daylight stands....but not with all the phoney regulations that some authority can dream up to hog tie the hunter. And, remember, this is not a "resource" animal. It's vermin with some potential for economic value, which is the other side of the coin as opposed to pure sport.

I do not know if night hunting will subtract the success rate of daylight stands? It seems logical, that if you kill a few animals at night, there will be a few less to call in the daytime? That should be obvious, and amounts to a circular argument. Are we protecting the resource, or are we controlling the species they affect? What's the policy? Do we kill coyotes and protect livestock and game bird populations? Or, do we regulate coyotes as a game animal? That's a controversial subject, and the answer seems to be, in most of the western United States; we want to control them. So, we need to put this in the proper perspective.

Night hunting is extremely specialized. It takes special equipment. It will never be as popular as day hunting. In my opinin, it is very exciting. Consider this. Just calling a coyote in the daytime is a wonder. Calling a coyote, at night using a light, is twice the wonder. Is it so easy that anybody can do it? Hardly. Should it be legal? I can't see a good reason that it shouldn't be? It has been legal in other states for many years, and (as mentioned) it does not seem to cause an increase in poaching.

Poachers probably come in two sizes. The professional, and the much more common, amatuer. So, what is the motivation? They are meat or trophy hunters. Will a law that allows night hunting of coyotes cause an increase in illegal killing of stock or game animals? There is no evidence to suggest that assumption, that I am aware of? I have hunted in many western states for many years. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen evidence of poaching, while night hunting. And, believe me, this amounts to a lot more time in the field than the average game warden.

Night hunters conduct themselves in a professional manor. The one's I know. They are not Yahoos or cowboys and not criminals, either. I say, give them a chance. If they need regulation, finetune it to suit the circumstances, but provide justification. The laws should not be arbitrary, or they may not be respected.

And, that's the way I feel about it. Hope you find some value.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 17, 2007, 04:46 PM:
 
Value? Hell yes. I'm sitting here laughing like a fool thinking how nice it would be to be able to sit you down in front of our Commissioners when this subject is debated and introduce you as, "my curmudgeony friend, Leonard B from California, who is here to enlighten you about a few things.

For the record, the part of my post that you attributed to me as getting stupid came from the following paragraph from our furbearer biologist in response to my initial correspondence with him (bear in mind that we've never allowed night hunting here, have been a victim of all the same misguided misinformation you cite, and are all forging our way in somewhat uncharted territory. I'm just glad that he's willing to walk this walk with me.)...

As for the effectiveness, often new techniques are effective, but then once coyotes have survived a night hunt, there's no reason to believe they won't be more wary at night as well. (robo duck is an example of something that was very effective at first, and while it remains effective, many ducks have now seen it and survived, and its not as effective as it once was.) Is night calling that much more effective in states that have had it for a while? I know its effective, but is it really more effective?


Understand that his knowledge is of a general nature and he has been a very good ally of trappers and furharvesters in Kansas. He's a good listener and I'm pretty certain that he'll read your comments with interest and gladly offer them as the words of a sage old grandmaster of the night calling fraternity.

I appreciate your comments, Leonard, and do believe that you pretty much summed it up.
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on October 17, 2007, 05:42 PM:
 
Lance, see if your state's dept. can contact the IL. Conservation Dept. They have recent experience with changing the rules to allow night hunting and may have some input on its' outcome. The rules changed there in 1999. Temper their answer with a bit of prudence, they are not exactly a top-notch dept.

My take:

1.) Do not over-estimate the impact of night hunting. Very few hunters have the "gumption" to take advantage of it. Cold hard fact.
2.) It is a cop-out to lean on the increased poaching opportunities line. If people wanna illegally eat deer they're gonna illegally eat deer. Period. Same-same for stealing a rack. Legalized nighttime predator hunting is not relevant.
3.) As far as effectiveness goes I think calling at night is way more effective, particularly when it comes to killing seasoned adult animals. Just my opinion, I hunt for entertainment so I have no numbers to back that thought, keeping a book is not my idea of fun.
4.) Forget self-imposing the season and methods limits. I suspect that current deer laws have already imposed restrictions on rifles and coyotes during the deer season in your state. As Tim mentioned above, give yourself some bargaining room.

Good luck and I certainly hope you get it legalized. I suspect that there will be a small group of serious hunters that will benefit and take advantage of the rules. For the rest, this will sail right over their heads.
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on October 17, 2007, 05:49 PM:
 
We have some of the most screwed up laws, for night hunting, anywhere.

I can tell you that it makes night hunting less appealing, to have to run unattached, and away from your vehicle.

We have night hunting that runs concurrent with some big game seasons (bear and cougar), but is closed during other big game seasons (modern firearm deer and elk), and it is only legal during established bobcat and raccoon seasons.

When the orange army is in the woods, trying to pick their way to and from their stands in the dark, is not a good time for night hunting.

I don't know why they differentiate the modern rifle guys from the rest of the orange army, if safety is the issue. It would be just as unsafe to night hunt with the orange wearing muzzle loaders, and is even more unsafe with the camo-clad bow hunters.

Krusty
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on October 17, 2007, 06:14 PM:
 
Tim B - are you sure you can night hunt in New Mexico??
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 17, 2007, 07:02 PM:
 
Kelly,

NM does allow some night hunting, but there are restrictions I'm not certain about.
 

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Posted by furhvstr (Member # 1389) on October 18, 2007, 09:37 AM:
 
" coyotes easier or more effective at night"
In Ca. we can't shoot from or upon a motor vehicle and you can't shine from a roadway. The shoulder is the roadway. Dirt two track or paved or graded dirt, same-same. So now we have to pull off the shoulder but we can't break the brush or we are breaking federal laws. This in itself cut's out high powered spotlights plugged into the truck. What good is it to shine frome the truck if you can't shoot from it. In Texas or similar it is more effective to hunt predators at night but with constraints like we have here no way is it more productive than daytime. Allows the avg. working Joe more hunting time and adds a tool for harvesting fur and or doing control work.
Point is go for everything you can get and work down from there. It is safe and more effective to shoot from a solid platform with the aid of a strong plug in light. I have never been to Ks but am guessing it does not lend itself to remote nighttime stands. Brush, trees, agriculture, flat in places.
Open night hunting puts wardons in the hills at night and increases the odds of a deer poacher getting caught. Deer poachers will know this and may curtail their activities.
Be prepared for an argument from your wildlife dept. on the fiscal impacts of adding a season to their plate.
 

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Posted by Lungbuster (Member # 630) on October 19, 2007, 08:04 AM:
 
I have never hunted out of a truck at night so my opinion doesn't have alot of merit, but I have hunted at night detached from a vehicle for 15 years. It seems to me that walking into an area instead of driveing in would increase your success, less noise,etc.
Maybe someone who has done both can comment?

CDog, dont mean to rob your thread, just wondering.... And I agree with everyone else, more effective at night.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 19, 2007, 09:40 AM:
 
Well, that part isn't true, Lungbuster. Driving on any sort of two track road in a vehicle is a lot less obtrusive than walking around in the woods, at night. Then you wait a few minutes for things to settle down and it is not TOO uncommon to see an animal right away, fairly close, that has not been disturbed.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by furhvstr (Member # 1389) on October 19, 2007, 12:54 PM:
 
Deer, coyotes and others are less scared of a vehicle than someone on foot in most cases at least in my experience.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 19, 2007, 02:49 PM:
 
Even in Kansas?
 

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Posted by Randy Buker (Member # 134) on October 23, 2007, 08:22 AM:
 
I know I'm not real welcome here but...

Lance, give me a call later this week at 218-338-HUNT (4868).

I lead the charge here in Minnesota to get the light law changed. I have some materials you could use and I know what worked for me to make the change.

Randy
(back to lurker status.)
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 23, 2007, 10:56 AM:
 
Wrong, Randy.

I'd like to see you participate as much as it suits you. Nothing worse than reading something and being hesitant with a germaine comment, or two. Some of us are just not made, to lurk.

At one time, seventeen caliber stories used to drive me nuts; now I just smile.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on October 23, 2007, 11:52 AM:
 

quote:

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At one time, seventeen caliber stories used to drive me nuts; now I just smile.

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Same here...

- DAA
 

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Posted by Rich Higgins (Member # 3) on October 23, 2007, 02:03 PM:
 
Me too, Randy. I'm always glad to see you post.
You have a lot to contribute and like me you seem to have mellowed in your advanced years.
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on October 23, 2007, 06:16 PM:
 
I'm not a night hunter. But I don't really care if someone else does. It is legal here on private land. Then main problem I can see (especially in more populated areas) is that your game wardens are going to recieve a pile of calls reporting "poachers" evertime someone sees a light flashing around in the woods. Therefore they will more than likely have to respond to some or all of these calls. Thats takes time and money. That will be the driving factor for the game dept. I guess if I were to write the laws, I kind of agree with Wyomings, if the landowner wants you out there hunting at night on his property then by all means you should be able to do so, but on public land, I personally am not as high on night hunting. But thats just a personal opinion.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 23, 2007, 08:04 PM:
 
What a pal? That's the way we all stick together?

Let me see? Because the game warden may have to roll on a call, for the first week and a half?

I might feel the same about aerial shooting, on any land.

There really is no justification for not allowing night hunting on BLM land. No legitimate concern.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on October 23, 2007, 10:11 PM:
 
I`m not so sure Cal, around here they will work the night shift some times & it has nothing to do with folks calling in, rather it has to do with trying to catch people spotting from the vehicle or checking for a license(coon hunting) or whatever else they can find, which isn`t all bad, they are making their presence known which will stop a few knuckle heads from breaking the law & of course create some revenue in fines at the same time.

I do agree with LB, there really isn`t a legitimate excuse for restricting night hunting.
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on October 24, 2007, 06:18 PM:
 
Leonard, I know that you think that everyone is as perfectly behaved as you, but they're not. I know what happens here. It is legal to hunt from a truck. So therefore every pack of high school/college aged kids that has a truck, grabs a case of beer and heads out with a legitimate excuse to tear up the country side and shoot everything they can get in a light and they do. They are supposed to stay on private that they have permission on, but they don't. I think that if a landowner wants to give them permission on their private, thats great, but I catch them all the time here on the ranch that I'm on. And the game and fish catches them on public all the time. Another big lure lately has been the high priced cats. Cats here are a furbearer and off limits to night hunters, but you know how easy cats are at night, and alot of people can't resist the temptation. I hate it when I see a group of kids show up at the furbuyers with a bunch of shot up cats. I know exactly how they got them. I see in the paper every winter where they caught another group of guys (usually kids) that had been shooting deer and antelope at night and just leaving them lay. It does happen. Even at that, while I still don't agree with it on a personal basis, I wouldn't vote or campaign against it, just for the guys that do it right. As for the comments on the wardens having to get out of bed and put in more hours, I really don't give a damn personally, I was just stating that I was sure that was going to be one of their arguments, that they didn't have the manpower or money to police the night hunting. I'm not a big fan of the Game and Fish dept here and could care less if they have to get up in the night .
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 24, 2007, 06:32 PM:
 
That's good, Amigo. You state your position very well. And, I understand. Not so much in Wyoming, since I have not hunted there in quite a while, but as I have said many times, I see what you are talking about, in Nevada, and they are almost always from Utah. It's like anything else, a few a$$hole ruin it for everyone.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on October 31, 2007, 08:36 AM:
 
It has been a long held belief of mine that hunting at night is much safer, using common sense of course, than hunting during the day. Not that daytime hunting is inherently dangerous but.... Especially in the east and some parts of the west where the cover is thick, the lights, as Leonard pointed out, help pinpoint homes that may not have been seen in the day time. I have been to places in the day that when I returned at night was amazed to find a house light on not 600 ft from where I was.
As far as the animals being easier to call at night, I would say yes, for the most part. They seem, to me, to be much less wary at night. They are still aware of danger but are less apt to circle waaaay downwind, if at all, in my experience.
I love hunting at night and can't believe that some states are so closed minded that they would not allow it.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 31, 2007, 09:16 AM:
 
These are some good comments guys. I've already forwarded some of them (Leonard's in its entirety) to our furbearer biologist - the guy that will be pleading he case before the Commission - and he appreciates your insights thus far. I especially like the thoughts that there will be more eyes and ears to watch out for illegal hunting with callers afield, and that the knowledge of night hunting going on will possibly lead a potential poacher to think twice since there might be a Conservation Officer out and about. As far as they're being called out at night, I spent a number of years (as you know) doing community service as a "public official" and we got called out most nights. It was part of the job and if we didn't like it, there were other careers waiting for us. If they want to complain about having to get out of bed to check a jacklighter, the next thing you know, they'll be complaining because they have to work when it's too cold. Or, too hot. Or, too dry. We pay them to work, not not to work.

As was posted earlier, one group that seems to have planted their feet against any notion of calling coyotes at night is the deer hunters. Their rationale? "Fair chase", or the lack of.

Given that the coyote is a varmint, rather than a game animal, and all the sundry economic aspects that go with that, what do you all think about applying "fair chase" rules to hunting coyotes? LOL This oughtta be good.

My own .02? I think they're right. The buggers have too much of an advantage with those eyes, their ears and that sense of smell, and by Gawd, I think the gubmint needs to do something to level the playing field for us! In fact, I think that will be my response... that we, like them, are sincerely concerned with neither side being given an unfair advantage over the other. Therefore, our solution to even things out is to implement night calling. Whaddya think?
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on October 31, 2007, 06:14 PM:
 
Fair Chase? LOL! Hunting deer from trees is legal and how fair is that to the deer? They can't climb trees. The good Lord gave prey animals and predators very, very keen senses to keep the pack, herd, clutch, pride, gaggle or whatever freakin' name you want to give them, alive. We could slice and dice this one down to where we are all throwing spears or rocks or swiping away at game with bolo knives, in the nude.
What is fair? Letting them see you before the shot? Announcing your presence? Giving them a chance to flee before shooting? And on and on.......
 

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Posted by JD (Member # 768) on October 31, 2007, 09:50 PM:
 

quote:

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swiping away at game with bolo knives, in the nude.

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Good lord Smithers!!! Try to stay on topic here, you can start a different thread to talk about your "private" hunting practices.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on October 31, 2007, 10:38 PM:
 
This is getting scary. Just tonight, he put me on his "buddy list". Sent me an IM and wanted to know how I got there? I've been up the hill visiting a sick friend all day, how would I know how I got on his list?

So, I sent him this, and he loved it: http://media.putfile.com/Dancing-Leon

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on October 31, 2007, 10:39 PM:
 
Smithers,

How do I get the knives attached to a Bolo?

Sounds like fun!
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on November 01, 2007, 07:32 AM:
 
Hey Leonard, I don't add anyone to my "buddy List" I don't know how YOU got on it. Mr. Richard Cronk and my brother are the only ones that I have ever had on my list and then you come busting in on the scene. Maybe when I received my password that I forgot this last time you were added automatically. Sorry, I will black list you when I get home.

TBehle, a bolo knife is a knife used in the jungle, ie: machete. The bolo you are thinking of is the contraption you twirl around and toss projectiles. No?

JD, this is the body God gave me and I am not afraid or ashamed to show it off, right Tim. Monkeys don't wear no clothes!
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 01, 2007, 09:27 PM:
 
Ok, the solution to most of these arguments against is fairly simple.

Have Game & Fish set up a call-in phone line (answering machine) that night hunters would be required to call & register on.

"......Uh,.Hi,...This is Cdog; I'll be hunting tonight in unit 666. I'm driving a truck model POS, plate # 555-555."

Now; the warden has several options.

(1) I've checked this guy before. He's all right.

(2) This guy's a weasel and a decoy, not to be trusted & neither are his friends. I'll check him out...closely.

(3) The 'Hot Line' reports 3 spotlights & the 'Night-Line' registers 2..??? Time to roll.

If I'm not mistaken, most daylight poaching is a target of opportunity type thing, where-as poaching at night is somewhat more preplanned. A poacher, knowing that if he doesn't call in, is providing some kind of De-Facto evidence of guilt if he's stopped, may reconsider his evil ways.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on November 01, 2007, 10:01 PM:
 
Get real. Who in the hell is going to call a Game Warden because they see a single red light on the side of a field in the middle of the night?

Odds are, they are going to sit at the window and watch for a while and not call any one. And if they do pick up the phone, it will to be calling the landowner, who can tell them who it is and what you are doing ( providing you have permission to be there ) or they will call 911. Who's dispatcher will send it as a low priority call to some poor Deputy stuck on the night shift. ( If you county even has someone covering on that night )

If the Game Warden does get a call, it will be from a Deputy, asking if it is legal to hunt coyotes at night with a light. Word will spread fast among the Deputies, and the Game Warden will not have to lose any more sleep.

But I bet reports of low flying UFO's increase

[ November 01, 2007, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: Tim Behle ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 02, 2007, 03:38 AM:
 
Tim; True enough, apathy is a factor. However, our perception of what's 'real' and Game & Fish's may not be the same. It's G&F's interpretation that matters at the moment.

And yes, word does spread fast among Deputy's & Game Wardens, ranchers & members of the local calling fraternity. I have long suspected that the fastest means of communication is not the Web, but the local Coffee Shop.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on November 02, 2007, 05:45 AM:
 
I though all cops hung out in Donut shops? They go to Coffee shops too?
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on November 02, 2007, 06:26 PM:
 
Donut shops in McNeal?? How blase. You really must come over to Safford this Jan. where we have art museums and French style open air sidewalk caffes. (insert grin thing that I can never get to work)
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on November 02, 2007, 06:59 PM:
 
Lance,

I think the dog wagons of the plains states already answers the question of "fair chase", in opinion and precedence of law.

It's certainly not legal to run dogs (with lethal force) on deer, or any other "game" animals, is it?

"Poaching" covers a wide variety of infractions, from tag- license- unit- bag limit- violations, harvesting of parts for profit, to game for table fair on an "as needed" basis.

Around here, poaching happens in the daytime, and at night.
Very little of it though (in the broad spectrum of the term), in my opinion, happens at night, despite open night hunting seasons.

P.S. Smithers,

I was thinking "bolo necktie"... a bolo with a knife on it, sounds like a really bad idea.

Krusty

[ November 02, 2007, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: Krustyklimber ]
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on November 02, 2007, 07:06 PM:
 
Damn, Krusty,

That's one of those "Why didn't I think of that?!?" kinda things. Absolutely great point. Thanks.
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on November 04, 2007, 10:41 AM:
 
Krusty, those are great points. To counterpoint, whenever you bring up what someone else has (dogwagons), that you don't, (nighthunting) the easiest way out for the politicos is to take away (dogwagons) rather than write up new laws.
It seems that some states find it is easier to use an eraser than sharpen a pencil.

[ November 04, 2007, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: smithers ]
 

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