This is topic Utah game wardens writing speeding tickets in forum Member forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 26, 2024, 10:50 AM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eZpif3sgJw
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 26, 2024, 12:39 PM:
If the Warden happened to see somebody doing 100 in a 65 or weaving badly as in impaired, I could understand the stop.
This is nothing but writing tickets to generate income.
Therefore; Remember, after you poach a deer, do NOT exceed the speed limit on your way home or the Game Warden will catch you. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 27, 2024, 11:05 AM:
its normal for CO's to help enforce traffic laws, nothing new here. They even respond to car accidents if not enough help around. Some areas here the county deputies here even patrol lakes for boating violations. Cool thing about a CO, they don't need a search warrant either.
Also if you apply for state or county trapper in some states you have to also take first responder courses and respond to accidents or whatever they needed for.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 27, 2024, 03:59 PM:
If there is a contrary position, we can always count on Tim.
But anyway, it's been at leas 25 years now since Game Wardens in The People's Republik have been considered and authorized as LAW ENFORCEMENT/PEACE OFFICERS. They are sworn police officers, and this all happened that long ago when there was a rush of Vietnamese emigrants in the state and they were harvesting Black bear gallbladders as some type of Asian/Oriental medicines and commanding a steep price when exported.
So, there was a state law passed that gave all game and fish wardens the power of arrest and actual life and death. Other states viewed this as a swell idea, especially when writing obvious chickenshit (and disputed) situations where maybe they shook out an extra quail or dove above the 10 bird limit. Shit like that where a citizen felt that the gray area of having a line in the water two minutes before actual daybreak, or failing to "bend in" the barb "good enough in barbless wild creeks....shit like that, which could be considered overzealous enforcement. And the list extends out infinitum.
Suddenly, Game Wardens start "Packing". And, there you go.
There used to be an Inyo County sheriff Deputy that patrolled a stretch of 395 through the Owens Valley late at night while the CHP was tucked into bed and this asshole was a one man gang enforcing speed limits on wide open highways at 1, 2, and 3 A.M.
Nature abhors a Vacuum!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 27, 2024, 08:47 PM:
Lots of suits filed in several States concerning game wardens trespassing private property/hunting clubs land to check on hunting activities.
As for personal property in such as your home, any law enforcement agency is required to obtain a search warrant.....even game wardens.
Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on July 28, 2024, 03:07 AM:
Anybody that is in law enforcement are officers of the court.Be it a correctional officer or a game warden and may be called upon to enforce or help other law enforcement agencies.
But I agree that there are some that really shouldn't be in that field of work or service.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 28, 2024, 09:45 AM:
Wardens here enforce everything to do with wildlife, land and water and assist sheriff's department as well as EMT's if needed.
Hunter commits game violation and turned in by someone else is probable cause for them to search without a warrant. People tend to think they buy a piece of ground they own it and has only say to who can and cannot come on it. sept for DNR they don't need permission and while we at it throw in a Lic. bounty hunter, they don't need warrant in most states. Counties will also have other laws tacked on that other counties may not have just depends where you live. Townships, counties and state laws can differ as well. Also, we do not own the wildlife, the state does so you shoot one over limit yes, it is breaking the law, guy should learn to count before he can buy a gun.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 28, 2024, 10:31 AM:
So ................ all it takes is for 'someone' to drop a dime and 'allege' to G & F that you shot an extra 'possum last week and since you're a known gun owner / Republican a SWAT team should probably be involved in the upcoming no-knock / no warrant search ?????
Seems fair .......... what could go wrong ????
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 28, 2024, 12:27 PM:
no koko. First, they go to seen of crime look for shell cases, tire tracks and blood if any. They use dogs a lot up here to find that sort of shit.
They will then show up at bad guys house and ask questions. That may determine their next action, like look for blood in truck, look at owner's gun check see if it been fired, what caliber ect. If it all starts to add up CO will give them option to come clean. If not, then a search and just say they come across some dope then the cops are called and everything documented, and the judge sorts it all out and all legal like.
Lot of the drug users that icefish had a hell of a time with Co catching them smoked up on the lake all legal like. State owns the water..
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on July 29, 2024, 07:54 AM:
So the Bill of rights, 4th amendment doesn't apply to posssum cops?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2024, 10:06 AM:
Yeah. Yeah, I am not a scoff law. I obey laws whether I agree with a few, or not. Okay, yes I have driven above the speed limit a couple times. I was also given a chickenshit ticket by a tribal (squaw) officer and I will never get over that one even though I eventually beat it in court. Never mind that the attorney fee was more than the speeding ticket fine. See, I had passed her and watched her turn around and believe me, I kept my speed at exactly 55MPH and she told me she clocked me at 9MPH over the speed limit. Okay, it's over and done, but why get me all riled up?
The fact is, and in my personal experience, I have never been hassled by a legit peace officer, but I have been subjected to several chickenshit behavior by Game Wardens, and none of which, was I doing anything even remotely against the law.
Things like this: a female game warden was caught intentionally planting hairs from a Canadian Lynx on some adhesive tape in a National Forest with the intent to scheme and declare the area as protected habitat as some personal quest. I forget exactly how they caught her red handed, but she didn't even get suspended! Just, let's forget about the whole thing!
Game wardens have been known to engage in deceptive and unethical crap and almost always given the benefit of doubt. At one time, they were considered fellow sportsmen, but not any more. They are overzealous wildlife protectors.
OK honesty forces me to include-NOT ALL WARDENS ARE GUILTY OF QUESTIONABLE BEHAVIOR AND PRACTICES. But, just watch your back!
Friends were forced to unload their entire contents of the vehicle in a downpour, while agents were looking for something they never found and never specified what they were looking for?
Yes, it's my opinion that Game Wardens engage in some shady behavior, occasionally.
Good hunting. El Bee
PS quite a few years ago, at a state event we held at Rahauges in Corona. One of the participating teams was stopped, while hunting at night and doing nothing illegal. But, they had a copy of the rules for the hunt and it stated all animals that were legal, including gray fox, coyote, bobcat, badger, wolf and mountain lion. (the last two were listed as a formality, as any animal taken would have to be fully documented, licensed and tagged) Typically, on these hunts, there might be 200 coyotes, a half a dozen bobcat and maybe one of anything else, total for every team returning to check in.
The Fisg and Game wardens that read the rules made a huge leap and sent out an alert for maximum enforcement to be present at the check in because lions were protected in California, but with documentation, if a team hunting in another state killed a lion, it would count. False alarm, nobody turned in any illegal animal, although Fish and Game tried to confiscate a half a dozen bobcat because the furbearer season in California had not opened. But the animals were returned a few minutes later when the men produced Arizona hunting licenses and those animals were in season in that state.
In other words, it was a genuine shit show. Nobody was sited for anything, even though they tried mightily. You should have seen the enforcement! More wardens than hunters that actually returned to check in. There were maybe 50 teams signed out for the hunt and about half actually returned to check in.
But, Fish and Game acted like they had rounded up a huge poaching ring engaged in an illegal Mountain Lion slaughter!
That's it but I was there and they tore our truck apart looking for 2 3/4" shells. If they had found any, they would have wrote us up for having a Mossberg with an illegal capacity, but we had all 3" shells. That's how desperate they were to bust somebody for something, anything!
ANOTHER TRIP DOWN MEMORY LANE WITH EL BEE!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 29, 2024, 02:07 PM:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that the 3 shot limit in a shotgun applies ONLY to ducks, quail & such. NOT coyotes. You should be able to hunt non-game animals with an extended tube on your shottie if you wanted to. Just not with #6 shot.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 29, 2024, 07:26 PM:
Yeah, but you didn't see the enforcement on that particular occasion. They were desperate to find something and the guy that starts screaming about his Constitution will get hammered down. Unfairly, after getting arrested, etc. but as they were unable to pin anything on us we didn't press the issue.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: OH, no this is another thing that used to apply about 5 or 6 round capacity, forget which? Maybe it was a Kalifornia thing?
[ July 29, 2024, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 30, 2024, 04:35 PM:
I my experience I find the cops to be ass holes and not so much with the Co,s. I did get a ticket from warden once, but I had it coming. Cops give you one whenever it suites their mood.
I've known two Co.s and got along with them just fine. One of them raised and trained bird dogs and other is a avid fox hunter and also likes the 17 centerfires.
We also don't have all those stupid laws so its just a lic. check, plug check if after ducks, and what your limit is if you had any luck. Sometimes the Co. well give you a tip on where to fish or good place to hunt.
[ July 30, 2024, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 31, 2024, 08:09 AM:
I think the problem is, Tim, that Game Wardens, by and large, have a completely different philosophy and world view, than your average sportsman. What I am saying is that the ranks of wardens and their attitude were right in line with your average hunter and/or fisherman. They actually participated in the harvest the same as the folks that they were checking licenses. You could just tell, they were on the same wavelength, would drool along with you about your big buck with the huge rack.
Now a days, just about any warden will quiz you and listen closely, the gears turning and on the look out for some inconsistency or potential violation. They don't conceal their attitude, their mind set. Everything about them is thinking of some way some how, you might have done something illegal....even if it might be a misspelled location, or time of day. They don't care how minor, they seem to be thinking of some way to catch you in something incorrect, if not illegal. Sometimes, it's painful to endure these interrogations!
Some of you guys might recall interactions with wardens that are becoming increasingly hostile. I know that most of my encounters, the second half of my life, it's just CHANGED!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on July 31, 2024, 11:41 AM:
I've been lucky ................ most of the wardens I've dealt with have been decent folks. Only two of them have been jerks in many decades of being outdoors. No tickets, though.
Years ago ............ I buy all of my tags for the year at one time in Jan. and one of them didn't get signed. A warden up on The Rim checked my deer tag and handed it back to me along with a pen. Rather that give me a chicken-shit ticket I got a souvenir G & F pen with "I Forgot To Sign My Tag' printed on it. I thought that it was a class move on the Department's part and still have that pen. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 31, 2024, 02:35 PM:
Yes. He pointed out an error on your part. I suppose it wouldn't be very cool to write you a citation for failure to sign a tag? I'm sure there must be a legitimate and valid reason for that requirement, but it's not exactly like forgetting to sign a personal check.
Now, I had a warden stop me and give me a ration of shit, I thought he was going to cuff me! It was the closest I've ever got, to wearing handcuffs. But, he had me turn around and told me to put my hands behind my back. At that point, I said; Hey, wait a minute! But he held my hands with one hand while he patted me down for weapons, which I did have a knife and I asked him later, and he said he felt it and knew what it was. Apparently, he was looking for something more dangerous? IDK?
Anyway, I then went to my center council and got my wallet and showed him my license. At this point, he asked me why I didn't offer it before and I said it was a matter of principle-I wasn't hunting! I was just driving while wearing camo, and I didn't think he had the authority to demand to see my hunting license unless I was actively hunting. I wasn't, I was stopped, on the ground, using my phone when he observed me with his binos. It was not even AZ State trust land. Turned out it was unposted tribal land of the Hopi! Anyway, why was this warden concerned with a non resident hunting license on NON RESERVATION LAND? It wasn't "reservation" land, it was ranch land purchased by the Hopi. So, it ended well, but I really didn't think he had any authority to ask. He didn't actually demand to see my license, he just asked me if I had one? Actually, I think he was just being nosey, and wanted to check me out. CA plates, you know?
Good hunting. El Bee
The time I rounded a blind corner in the woods, up in Northern California and there was a warden stopped me standing at my driver's window. At the same time he was distracting me, there was a second warden who approached from behind on the opposite side and yelled out: "Mind if I have a look inside?" as he opened the door of my camper shell. I had no game in the back, just hunting gear. But, as far as I was concerned, that was an illegal search! If he had asked politely, I would have allowed him to look inside, or opened it myself. But, these nefarious tactics are offensive. It takes a while to get over this kind of stuff.
Good hunting. El Bee
[ July 31, 2024, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on July 31, 2024, 04:22 PM:
We did have one young game warden that got relocated. I never met him, but he was from one of the towns close by and where some of my buddies was from, he may have grown up with them and knew about their bad hunting tactics, so he had a hard on for them. I think some tickets was given out and they went court and when done the warden got relocated to job farther up north...
The warden I talk to the most calls me late in winter and chats about red fox population, guns and gun shows and coyotes. He knows full well I hate game slobs as much as any responsible hunter so maybe a reason why we get along.
Also, most of wardens I know came from hunting families as Minn. has alot of hunters.
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