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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 12, 2014, 07:25 AM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nCKO7xi8ZeY
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on February 12, 2014, 09:02 AM:
Nothing shakey to me.Euthanize the cop and sue the Dept.
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 12, 2014, 01:28 PM:
I have to side with the cop on this. He says he went there on "a call". As much as I love dogs, anyone should be able to walk down a public street and not be threatened by dogs or thugs for that matter.
That is a suburban neighborhood where I guess kids and others may want to walk on the sidewalks or jog, well in nicer weather.
Plain and simple, the dogs should have been on a restraint or in a fenced enclosure.
IMO, This is the owners fault plain and simple.
[ February 12, 2014, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 12, 2014, 02:39 PM:
Yeah well, how about this? A citizen confronted by a barking pit bull, (are you paying attention Jimanez?) should sit in his vehicle and call animal control. PERIOD!
Any other use of force will get your ass in fucking jail! Since when does that cop have a right to just casually blow away a neighborhood dog. If you ask me, neither of those dogs looked threatening, any dog in America is liable to bark at a stranger in uniform.
Suppose they have a leash law in that town. Then, the guy gets a citation, the dog doesn't deserve a death sentence. I'd fire the asshole! Maybe he needs to be sued?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on February 12, 2014, 04:11 PM:
The "call" was a dog at large call, so he knew what he was facing when he showed up.
If the animal control duties fall to the regular cops in this city, then they should know how to deal with stray (or loose) dogs.
In my opinion, he absolutely failed at performing his job.
Should the dog be loose? No. (Obviously)
Should people be able to feel safe walking down the street?
Yes, of course. But, sometimes dogs do get out. It happens.
Although, I think it was probably just common practice for this guy. I'd go so far as to say, he'd probably even seen that behavior from his dog before.
Now, the behavior in question...
What I see is a protective dog feeding off of the cop's demeanor/ fear/ attitude. Not a dangerous dog.
And, an animal control officer would have seen the difference.
Since when is it ok to pop off a round in a suburban neighborhood just because you're afraid of being bit?
Pepper spray? Mace? Night stick? Taser? A big stick?
Truth be told, I'd bet if he'd have left that ("I AM NOT GETTING BIT AGAIN")...fear in the car, and approached the dogs with a "Here boy" and maybe squatted or let the dog slowly approach him and catch his scent,...things would have turned out differently.
I think he failed at his job in this case. And, I also think he knew it by all the apologizing he was doing.
Usually, when someone fails at their job, especially when it COULD cost their employer a lot of money...they get fired.
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 12, 2014, 04:47 PM:
Yea, well, you all may disagree, but that was my call.
I used to work for a veterinarian for a few years, I got bit by some of the nicest dogs too. You know the owners just couldn't believe their little angels sunk ivory into parts of my body.
I saw the dogs wagging tails and didn't think the dogs were acting as aggressively as say a police dog or an attack dog. But I did see agressive behaviour also. I'm not Cesar Milan, but even he messes up and gets bit. I'm sure you know a 40-50 lb pooch can put the hurt on you pretty quick, an 80-100 can ruin your whole day in a fucking heartbeat.
I'm not getting into the pit-bull debate.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 12, 2014, 05:12 PM:
Fair enough. First of all, that was a smart allelic remark about pit bulls. In fact the dogs looked like very unthreatening Labs, to me? I do think all they wanted to do was sniff the guy, not attack him, but whatever, I don't see why he didn't control the situation a little better before hauling out the iron. I thought it looked ridiculous, pointing a gun at a dog, like a dog knows the threat.
And, where is all this information coming from? I watched it until the conversation where another needless threat to arrest the owner if he didn't show I.D. I'm not even sure the guy was obligated to show I.D. but with the chickenshit "COMMAND PRESENCE" asserted by the NAZI cop, the citizen is lucky he didn't get shot, also.
I hope the guy sues and gets a big $ judgement AND the fucking cop is fired, hereafter working security at the mall, which would serve him right.
Good hunting. El Bee
[ February 12, 2014, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 12, 2014, 08:14 PM:
I did kinda laugh when the guy answered his door and the officer demanded to see ID. I was thinking WTF? It was one of those moments where I could say,"I see where this movie is going".
Yea I thought the Pit-bull comment was bait to get Fred involved.
[ February 12, 2014, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 13, 2014, 04:28 AM:
For those of you that believe the cop was justified, I would agree with you had the cop had ATTEMPTED FIRST a friendly approach to the dog and kneeled down with his hand out so the dog could sniff him. Instead he approaches with a killer attitude that I believe a dog can sense. I hope they sock it to that cop and the city gets its ass sued off.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 13, 2014, 05:26 AM:
Was it me, or was the fat pet Lab backing up when the cop murdered it for no reason?
For the record, my dog responds waaaaay more aggressively than that Lab did when he's on his own 'turf' reacting to a 'stranger'. Isn't that what dogs are posta do?
The dog was on his own lawn, for crissakes?
As if, gettin' back in the cruiser and calling the owner to collect his pets would be too much trouble?
Or, just keeping tabs on the situation and waiting for someone with a catchpole to show up?
Or, just STANDING STILL and allow the dog to feel less obligated to protect its turf?
Another fine example of a cop walking into a situation and solving it with gunfire, over using his head. Which, should now be impaled on a stick, IMHO...
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 13, 2014, 05:40 AM:
Not to sound like a mean old bastard, but do you really think the cop will lose his job over this? Or the city is going to get sued and actually lose money?
Hey, I may be totally wrong, and it won't be the first time for me. Make note LB, As far as mistakes go, I have made some doozies. And I am damn sure I did a couple while in Ohio, because there was drinking involved. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good grief, I'm actually feeling sorry for Nick's treatment here, well sorta, I'm over it now. <chuckle>
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 13, 2014, 06:02 AM:
In truth, I really don't think its fair that Nick gets singled out to defend every cop in America's actions. So, I hope he doesn't feel picked on when Leonard calls on him as a 'sounding board'. Bet if we met, he'd be cool as shit in person...
That azzhole cop executing a grouchy, fat, pet dog on it's own lawn is no reflection on Nick, at all, far as I'm concerned.
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 13, 2014, 08:04 AM:
A K9 execution video starring something other than a pitbull? Unconscionable!! People will not stand for this behavior, at all.
Just another trigger happy officer, if you ask me. Lots of other options besides exiting the vehicle and engaging the target. It wasn't like there was some type of emergency that demanded immediate action. His actions created the incident. Cop gets fired, city pays damages, end of story.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 13, 2014, 10:09 AM:
Yeah, I agree. Fire that guy before he does something else stupid. City will pay blood money.
As far as 49. He's not being pilloried just because he's just about the only LE on the Board. We are asking for insight, picking his brain, not making him responsible for every fuck up in uniform. I appreciate his point of view.
Someone else, is it Lonny or Lone Howl? is in law enforcement by never gets involved.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on February 13, 2014, 12:10 PM:
Most likely the city will back up the cop simply because it's in their interest to do so. Since when is a cop called out on a dog at large call? The dumb SOB should've called animal control and left it at that. There is no way that shooting the dog can be justified. The dog owner needs to get a determined lawyer and at the very least the cop needs to be suspended for a while.
Every dog I've ever owned was a highly trained and valuable hunting dog. I've always made a strong effort to keep them locked up but sometimes they got out. I've even had to pick them up at the pound and pay a fine a couple of times. But woe to the person that intentionally killed one of my dogs. I will leave it at that.
All in all it was a cowardly act and not well thought out. Dumb peckerhead with a gun.
Come to think of it, I was a telephone cable splicer and had to deal with dogs almost on a daily basis for 15 years. I never carried a gun nor did I ever think shooting one of them was necessary.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 13, 2014, 02:21 PM:
The dog owner inside the house couldn't hear the dogs barking ???
Or he did and didn't bother to look out the window to see what was going on ??
It sounds to me like he heard them and ignored them.
Which would indicate that his dogs running loose out front and causing a nuisance was a common occurrence.
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on February 13, 2014, 02:45 PM:
KoKo,
And your point is?
I disagree with your interp of the facts but let's assume a barking dog is a 'nuisance'.So what?There are tons of public nuisances-loud music,loud mufflers,drunks,repeated domestic disputes,fences too high,and on and on.Do we use deadly force in any of those?Drunks,druggies etc often threaten cops but absent a weapon do we shoot them?
No.This is just a bad cop totally on a power trip and totally out of control.He is the danger,not a barking dog that is backing up on his own property.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 13, 2014, 03:43 PM:
If the owner is anything like me, it would be rare to hear dogs or much of anything else. My hearing is very poor.
A couple three months ago, I was out front and entered into a staring contest with two rotweilers. Well, I knew they belonged to some renters on the corner house, across the street so I walked over there and sure enough the side gate was open and the owner, who I don't know from Adam was in the garage. I suppose I could have just called animal control, but asked him if he knew where his dogs were?
It took two adults about thirty minutes to round them up. These dogs bark at everyone that they see from behind the rott iron gate and are what I consider to be a nuisance. Given a choice, I'd like them gone, so telling the owner before they got a long ways from home was counterproductive, on my part.
They are much less of a problem ever since that happened but if our Glendale hero would have showed up here, he would have shot both and with my blessing.
I think I did those people a favor, but am quite sure they now have an unfavorable opinion about that asshole down the street - me.
Other people are much less tolerant of your dogs than you are, believe that.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Cayotaytalker (Member # 1954) on February 13, 2014, 03:52 PM:
Nicks, just fine he made a post a few years back a bout a bob cat. with some of the crew in the photo. And that photo is when I took a liking to him. That's all based on how they actually looked like a motley crew. A guy with his own BAR cant be that bad.
But Del has not been around much not sure why.
as far as that go's not much of Smither's these days.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 13, 2014, 05:23 PM:
I hardly ever watch any videos that get posted, here or anywhere else. Had a cop roll up in front of the house and shoot a dog in the front yard once though, so I watched this one.
Jesus Fucking Christ...
That cop is a fucking ASS HOLE. Whether he'll get away with or not, whatever. But it comes through loud and clear in the vid that he's a worthless prick.
To me, the dog obviously didn't need shot. It didn't even need to be paid any attention to, just a yapper wagging it's tail. But even to give fuck face the benefit of doubt and presume he's enough of a fucking moron to think he was in danger, and grant him immunity for shooting the dog - the way he then proceeded to treat the owner and present himself - he's a FUCKING PRICK.
Guys like that with badges scare me.
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 13, 2014, 06:29 PM:
EXACTLY!
And, there should be justice, I'm not of the attitude: "It's just a dog."
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 13, 2014, 06:52 PM:
quote:
They are much less of a problem ever since that happened but if our Glendale hero would have showed up here, he would have shot both and with my blessing.
Just to get you back on track, the dog shooting occurred in Idaho. The Glendale guys took a human life. Trivial, I know.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 13, 2014, 08:29 PM:
DiYi;
My point was that most problem dogs / dog problems originate with the owners.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 13, 2014, 10:50 PM:
Oops, stand corrected. Not Glendale, duly noted and thank you! Bucking for a moderating position, or what?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 14, 2014, 05:18 AM:
This takes me back at least thirty years ago when I was doing a big room addition to our home. The addition added more living space than the existing house, plus it added a large two car garage and a large patio. Back to the story, I was out at my parents house which is on rural farm land. Their neighbor was a sheet metal fabricator, and I wanted him to make up and install my duct work. When I went over there, they were not home but I was greeted by their adult daughter and a big black dog who lived in the back of the property in a mobile home. That damn dog was known to be mean because he would threaten people just walking down the road. The whole time I was talking to the daughter that dog was barking with his hair raised and the dog's tail wasn't wagging. The stupid lady made no attempt to control the dog. I told her I didn't trust her dog and I wasn't turning my back on it. She still didn't do a damn thing to restrain the dog. I took my rolled up blue prints and slapped that dog as hard as I could. It allowed me to safely turn and get back in my car. She was really pissed at me for doing that. She turned and took the dog in while breaking out in tears. Despite hitting the dog, her brothers still may my duct work. I would just as soon hit stupid dog owners but that would be called assault and the dog would probably attack.
[ February 14, 2014, 05:20 AM: Message edited by: Aznative ]
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on February 14, 2014, 05:30 AM:
I am a dog lover but right is right and wrong is wrong. We walk our dog every day for the last six or seven years. Twice our dog has been attacked so now I carry an American made Benchmade knife with assisted opening and my model 60 smith. I figure in most cases the dog is going to get cold steel, and I will use the smith for protection against a stupid owner if they go nuts and grab a gun. If I'm fighting multiple dogs or one bad ass dog, I'll go straight for the smith. One stupid Filipino lady's dog attacked our dog. About a year latter, we were walking down her street and she had her two dogs out and the gate wide open. Before my wife and dog got close, I told her to close the gate. She didn't. In a loud voice I told her to close the damn gate. She didn't. It tool repeated verbal attempts with escalated cussing to get her to close the gate. Her dogs are of the size they would get the cold steel first and I was telling her I was going to kill her dog if it attacks. She has two dogs but only one is mean. Another case of a stupid dog owner.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 14, 2014, 08:12 AM:
AzDude;
Try this for a rainy day project.
Get a Yucca stalk of enough length to use as a walking stick. Light weight and surprisingly tough material.
Clean it up, sand down the rough spots and decorate as the spirit moves you. A woodburner works well. Stain doesn't. Heavy end to the top / thin end to the bottom.
Very stylish & trendy.
Then cut off about 8 or 10 inches of the bottom. Save the piece.
Glue in a sharpened letter opener type blade into the bottom of the walking stick.
Take the cut off section, cut length-wise and fashion a sheath for the blade.
Drill into the side of the sheath with a drill the size of a strong button magnet & install magnet with a good epoxy.
The magnet will hold the sheath onto the blade thru normal use but will come off easily when needed.
You now have a walking stick with a whacking end and a stabbing end.
Enjoy.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 14, 2014, 08:37 AM:
AZ, that's the same attitude as the black kids with their pit bull on a rope lunging at everybody on the street. They get off on it.
Years ago, I was walking down the street one Saturday morning to the Little League field. There was a curb and no sidewalk and this dog leapt off the porch where the owners was and came at me. I froze and faced the dog which was intimidating and vicious. Taking a step pumped up the dog. It was like I was glued to the spot.
The whole time, the owner sat on his porch and just observed. I yelled at him to control his dog and he responded by saying: "Why, he is on his property?"
All I could do was retreat to the middle of the street and continue past this jerks property. But, I had half a mind to turn around and get my gun. People like that really need their ass kicked.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 14, 2014, 01:35 PM:
Since we're telling stories now, I'll give up a little dirt on myself. My land shark was a rescue, I have no idea what her background is or where she came from. She had some neglect type health issues when she was rescued, so I've always used my imagination and supposed the worst. I had another dog when she came into the picture and she never showed a bit of aggression toward him. I've had her around several other dogs and she is not aggressive in an attacking manner, but she is not submissive either. If the other dog acts like it has raising some dust on its mind, Bella is fine with that, and just might strike pre-emptively.
Anyway, one evening after a long day of calling, both of us were worn out. I thought I was going to have to pull her out of the truck when we got home, she was so tired. We staggered into the garage where I took her e-collar off. Usually as soon as the collar comes off, she goes straight into the house because I do my absolute best to be a responsible pitbull owner. I NEVER want to be THAT guy. Fatigue got me that night because I started unloading my gear with her still in the wide open garage.
A few seconds later I hear a disturbance in the street. It's a guy I have seen on several occasions walking a pair of Chesapeakes. He's yelling "No, no, go back, go back". It took a second to sink in and I look up just in time to see Bella merging with the leashed pair. The guy is freaking, pulling on his dogs, kicking at mine. The adrenaline transfers and there's contact. Couldn't tell you who initiated it and it doesn't matter, I WAS AT FAULT, 100%. I ran as fast as my tired, old legs could and grabbed Bella by the collar with both hands and jerked as hard as I could. She came out without anything attached. Dude cut loose with an impressive stream of profanities. Couldn't blame him, and I was trying to claim responsibility, offer damages, apologize, etc., and he was having NONE of it.
Finally saw him again about a week later and tried to approach him again. That conversation went much better. His dogs suffered no more damage than mine which was really superficial. He sort of understood that I acknowledged that I fucked up and was extremely apologetic, and that Bella hadn't come with the intent to kill. He even rationalized that he might have played a part in the escalation.
Moral of the story...with dogs, or any other animal (I used to ride a real kicky mare. Anytime we went someplace we were around people and horses that didn't know her, I tied a swath a red surveyor's tape in her tail. The universal sign. Even so, she'd claim a human or equine victim pretty much every time.), shit is going to happen. No one is perfect and people are far more intelligent than animals. I guess you can tell where I think the blame lies.
Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 14, 2014, 04:30 PM:
Why not taser the dog? Why fucking put a 9mm into it?
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 16, 2014, 01:50 PM:
Just read that the officer was placed on administrative leave Wednesday. Guess the chief changed his mind.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 17, 2014, 02:05 AM:
You know what....I was purposely staying away from this thread because I thought it was from another (different) incident on camera where LE shoots a dog in the hood. After reading the comments I realized it was something different and watched it.
Cop or no cop, shooting that dog was BULLSHIT. There was no reason for it.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 17, 2014, 02:23 AM:
Which brings me to a couple of 49 stories.
I was bitten on a call. I responded to a domestic dispute which turned out to be between two dykes. There was no backup available at the time and I was on my own. I am dealing with the two dykes when the black lab of the residence comes up to me and takes a bite on my calf. I guess my reaction caused it to run. So I continue dealing with the two dykes and the dog comes back. I draw my weapon ready to put a round in it's skull if it approaches me which it does. The bull dyke then jumps in front of the lab thus saving it's life.
Second story...my partner Eric and I were serving a warrant. We knocked on the guy's door and he didn't answer (which often times they don't when they know they have warrants). We tried the door and it was unlocked so we walked inside. There was a tan lab inside the house which sat in the kitchen but didn't come up to us. We didn't want to push the issue with the dog in the house so we left and came back later. When we did come back we got he owner's attention and were able to place him under arrest. Now the dog sees his owner getting locked up and makes a beeline for Eric and grabs ahold of his leg. The dog won't let go so Eric puts two Gold Dots into it. We felt bad for the owner and the dog but what could you do.
Last story (for now)... we responded to a residence, I don't remember the nature of the call but it must have been hairy because one of the guys had the Benelli out. The owner opens the door and a couple of dogs come out, growling. They came at me and I stuck the flashlight in their faces keeping them away. Back then we still had the big flashlights. So the dogs leave me and go for the guy with the Benelli. He has the Benelli in his hands and can't do anything so he gets bit in the leg. I guess he didn't want to start blasting that cannon with me and the homeowner nearby so he takes the bite in the leg until we are able to get the dog off him. He ended up suing the homeowner and was awarded a nice little sum of money. I guess I should have sued when I got bit.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 17, 2014, 08:03 AM:
Shiiiiiiit. Just another day on the mail route.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 17, 2014, 08:16 AM:
quote:
Icon 1 posted February 13, 2014 03:52 PM Profile for Cayotaytalker Email Cayotaytalker Edit/Delete Post
Nicks, just fine he made a post a few years back a bout a bob cat. with some of the crew in the photo. And that photo is when I took a liking to him. That's all based on how they actually looked like a motley crew. A guy with his own BAR cant be that bad.
But Del has not been around much not sure why.
as far as that go's not much of Smither's these days.
I had forgotten about this pic!
[IMG]http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh289/4949shooter/Wildlife%20Pics/Unknown1.jpg[/IM G]
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 17, 2014, 09:42 AM:
Just noticed my post count and needed to get off that number. That's all.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 17, 2014, 10:53 AM:
I can't say I blame you.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 17, 2014, 11:35 AM:
49, how can I put this? Those retro uniforms look straight out of 1930 gangbusters, Boston Blackie, Sam Brown etc. You deserve a remodel.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 17, 2014, 12:45 PM:
They haven't changed much since 1921, Leonard.
We pride ourselves on tradition. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Cayotaytalker (Member # 1954) on February 17, 2014, 01:24 PM:
I spent seven weeks out on the east coast last summer I went to Jersey at least 9 times. City's like Hayward or Haywood, Close to Newark, Elisabeth. Jersey really wasn't that bad never thought it would grow on me, but it did a little. The states I liked the best were Tennessee, Virginia and Pennsylvania. Atlanta sucks but that's just me I'm sure. I spent way to much time in Memphis but I did get to see Grace Land (Colored Town). In one part Of Atlanta I was in I was the only white guy in Wall Mart A bit of a trip. Most of the black folks were just fine any of us to busy trying to make a get by and getting things done. To worry about one little old white guy. But there were those ones that came around the corner and jumped back a little with that look on there face, oh shit a white guy!
In short thank GOD the south lost!
Atlanta moves at it's on pace. I never left my hotel room after dark!
None of my emails or the same any more so what ever is in my profile is most likely junk.
Email is rdwcdl58@yahoo.com just incase anyone wanted to trade or what ever.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 17, 2014, 02:14 PM:
Cayotay, I think you might mean Maplewood. My buddy is from Maplewood, and his brother is a cop there. It is very close to Newark, and the city has gone downhill since the 1970's.
The Best bagels in the world were from the next town over, in Irvington. Watson bagels, the last of the old time Jewish bagels. I used to take a ride up there on Sunday mornings, or on my way home from a night shift, and picked up some bagels to bring to my parents. The place has been shut down for years. There is a huge crime problem in the city now...mostly shootings and car jackings....ya gotta love northern New Jersey.
[ February 17, 2014, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posted by TT (Member # 401) on February 17, 2014, 03:34 PM:
Hopefully that officer will respond to a call where somebody puts a slug in his empty noggin and hopefully before he has a chance to spawn.I doubt that dog would have bitten him and likely a Milk Bone would have diffused the situation better that kicking at the dog. Dog defends property as dogs have been taught to do for centuries and you kick at him instead calming the situation down and then shoot the dog inhumanly such as there are yelps heard. HMM ahole. Likely billied the perp after the cuffs were on too. One in the noggin can't come soon enough.
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 17, 2014, 04:30 PM:
I had a response all typed out, but I'll save it for the time being. Sentiments like that put you and the dog shooter in the same area code.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 17, 2014, 08:24 PM:
+1
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