|
Author
|
Topic: I'll throw this one up for debate...
|
|
|
CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
|
posted February 07, 2014 07:37 PM
I don't know, but with all the gun shots and smoke, I wouldn't be standing in the open filming.
--------------------
A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
|
posted February 07, 2014 07:47 PM
LOL, the smoke was from the perp's tires, but there was at least 15 shots fired, as evidenced by the bad guy's windshield. Don't think I would have been exposing myself either. Then again, the guy that shot this video didn't understand why they didn't just shoot the radiator on the Ford P/U and end the whole thing.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
|
posted February 08, 2014 07:39 AM
"wanted on a felony" warrants that kind of reaction from the cops these days? It's not like the guy just set a bomb off at a local airport. I don't know, to me it seems like the cops had no reason to "shoot to kill" in these circumstances.
--------------------
Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted February 08, 2014 07:48 AM
I know this place, my old girlfriend used to live close by. But Jimanez, seems like you live on the other side of town?
Anytime a desperate man tries to escape, driving recklessly, that's a well known signal for the popo to open up with everything they got.
I don't know, nobody knows? Probably justified? For sure, none will be held to account, I'm betting.
Good hunting. El Bee
PS come to think of it, Uncle Jay lives in that neighborhood?
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
|
posted February 08, 2014 01:28 PM
Impossible to know all of the details from watching a short clip but it seems to me that when you know that you have a warrant and the police box you in and point guns at you, you have a couple of options;
(1) Keep your hands in sight, obey orders and let the lawyers work out the details.
or
(2) Play stupid games........Win stupid prizes.
{To use a phrase I've heard before}
I'm not a cop lover or hater but most of these guys that get shot...........it's because the cops are REACTING to the bad guy's ACTIONS. The bad guy is actually the one who sets the tone of the encounter.
--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8232 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted February 08, 2014 04:04 PM
I agree with your sentiment and all, koko.
Just one observation. You have a guy, knows the score, probably been in jail more than once. He is surrounded, probably knows what is going to happen and ain't scared shitless like I would be.
So, what in the hell can a turd do that provokes a circular firing squad? Fifteen cops, with guns drawn, finger on the trigger..... and they are
AFRAID of the suspect?
Second observation: This guy has been around, fifteen cops have him surrounded .....and he's going to shoot his way out of there?
I don't know? None of it makes a lot of sense, to me?
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: forgot to add; cops will lie like a rug, in a situation such as this. Well, actually they are just as likely to lie about what happened as the dead guy, if he could talk. Sorry 49, but that's exactly the way I feel about it. Nothing personal/peace, Brother.
edit: Jimanez, any update, did they find a gun, some justification for killing the guy?
[ February 08, 2014, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cayotaytalker
DOES NOT TEACH/SUSPECTED OKIE
Member # 1954
|
posted February 08, 2014 04:16 PM
KOKO, that's not a bad way to put it as good as any I guess.
In fact that was my bottom line way of thinking about my whole life I guess.
Just a long haired country boy that didn't have much use for the cops.
My number one son in law is a cop (LEO) so I have come around a little. I never saw that coming!
I never really ever thought of Mark as any thing other than a friend. He plays guitar, drums, bass and is a good father.
Now I will tell you they are a little high strung when they come out of boot camp but they mellow out.
I (we) for get just how hard their jobs are and a lot of the work is mundane as hell.
like about a week a go Mark had to haul in some crazy broad that got her crud all over him and now his whole family has the flu. They (he) has to go into a lot of nasty homes and bring out a lot of nasty people.
In Bullhead City Arizona they have to deal with a lot of hyped up meth heads. just like cops all a cross America do.
He's knows my stance on pot but we never bring it up.
Now about the subject of this post never saw the clip so I want hit on it.
But if my son in law gets in a bind I hope he shots first and thinks about the what if later.
--------------------
Now thats prime coyote country!
Posts: 403 | From: LasVegas Nevada | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cayotaytalker
DOES NOT TEACH/SUSPECTED OKIE
Member # 1954
|
posted February 08, 2014 04:26 PM
Hey my cousin killed his self by cops right there in Enid Oklahoma. Dude was in a wheel chair rolled up to the front door a leveled his shot gun. And was shot and killed right then and there.
My aunt took it pretty hard.
And yes that kind of a story never sit's well with most folks.
There is a bit of a back story to all this but I'm not going to air out my kin folks dirty laundry over the air.
And come to think of it was about this time last year.
--------------------
Now thats prime coyote country!
Posts: 403 | From: LasVegas Nevada | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
|
posted February 08, 2014 07:17 PM
I live about 4 miles from that corner. No updates on whether the perp was armed that I have seen, so I suspect that he was not, other than the F-150. He had a dog with him that was not harmed (shocking, must not have been anything remotely resembling a pitbull).
As stated, no official statement or update, but from what I have been able to garner here and there, only one cop fired, and was not using a pistol. Guy was wanted for fraud and something else non-violent that escapes me at the moment, and was a confirmed flight risk. Glendale PD spokesperson said at the scene that cops were concerned for their own safety and that of the public because of the use of the motor vehicle.
Hindsight is 20/20, but seems like maybe they should have waited for him to exit the vehicle somewhere before trying to take him down. Seems like a better idea than getting into a situation where someone needs to turn a .223 loose 15 times in a busy shopping center parking lot at 10:30.
This situation will most likely become another training scenario, and thankfully no innocents were harmed.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted February 08, 2014 09:58 PM
The turd forgot that when you point a motor vehicle at a cop and gun it, that is the same as pointing a gun. They're gonna kill you and justifiably so.
I see no foul in the video but then again I think a lot of crooks should be shot while escaping.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
trapper2
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3651
|
posted February 09, 2014 07:04 AM
I don't have much against cops I just don't care to be around many of them, not cut of the same cloth deal I guess, but if they got a guy boxed in and he guns his truck and trys to run them over I say blast him, he knew what he was doing and the consquences. and if they shot a lot more of them then the jails wouldn't be so full and other might think before they did the same thing. and I got a little bother in the pen that shouldn't have gotten near the breaks he did, if the courts woulda been harder on him at the start maybe he wouldn't have kept it up
--------------------
nothing is politically correct if its morally wrong
Posts: 248 | From: okla | Registered: Sep 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
|
posted February 11, 2014 06:15 AM
Flight risk notwithstanding, if he's not wanted for a violent crime, why not just walk up him, TASE his azz, and cuff him?
For the record, I am NOT a proponent of the militarization of the PoPo. Seems like calls like the one in the video are an excuse to get the SWAT team some action? After all, they're all trained up, armed to the teeth and ready to roll, right?
So, why not roll in heavy on a paper fraud crook and fuckin' execute him when the "confirmed flight risk" does exactly what the PoPo already confirmed he'd try???
IS that not some kind of self fulfilling prophecy for failure?
Who thought up this hairbrained takedown attempt, a fuckin' Hollywood producer???
Or, a militarized SWAT commander, wanting to get his gearheads some trigger time?
Sorry dudes, I'M ALL ABOUT shootin' the BAD GUYS, but that scenario don't make no kinda sense to me.
Public place, non-violent felon, gunned down for bangin' into a couple PoPo cruisers, after being confirmed a "flight risk"?
Someone needs to have figured out a better plan than to execute a dude in a truck, in front of his dog...
[ February 11, 2014, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
|
posted February 11, 2014 07:33 AM
I can't view it???'Acct closed'
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
|
posted February 11, 2014 04:08 PM
Fredo, that bimbette who spoke to the press really didn't know what she was talking about.
The guy (decedent) was shot for ramming police cars, not because he was a flight risk. I think she was tying to justify the take-down method, but got the whole statement confused and mixed up in the process.
Tom got it right. 100%.
I also like koko's comment....play stupid games, win stupid prizes. This didn't have to happen.
Really.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
|
posted February 11, 2014 07:07 PM
Try this
Dunno what happened with the first link. This one includes a little of the original footage. The Marshall's spokesman says something about pulling a gun in this clip. That's the first I'd heard of that, and I frankly doubt it happened in this instance.
Nick, I think what Fred was driving at is why even attempt a stop on a non-violent offender when he's in control of a 2 ton deadly weapon in a shopping center parking lot? I saw a video today of some Delta Force dudes snatching an Al Qaeda hotshot out of his car without firing a shot.
quote:
I also like koko's comment....play stupid games, win stupid prizes. This didn't have to happen.
That statement has a lot of merit, and I'm all for it...from both sides.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
|
posted February 12, 2014 05:15 AM
Hey Nick, are you implying that you don't recognize anys flaws in SWAT team's plan to apprehend a non-violent "confirmed flight risk"?
If they knew he was gonna break for it, why set up a situation that would result in his death?
Again, one less turd is one less turd, far as I'm concerned. Just that I don't agree with the militarized, barnstorming SWAT tactics being used to grab this kind of criminal.
Can say one thing positive about the incident. Unlike our "highly trained" and militarized SWAT cops here in facsist NY state, at least the AZ SWAT cop had his optic mounted facing the right direction... ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
[ February 12, 2014, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted February 12, 2014 09:00 AM
In response to the comment by Tom about shooting those escaping.
Boy, would I like to see that employed on those long pursuits where the perp. jumps out with his low pants and starts running through back yards. Most of them could have been shot as soon as they opened the door.
And, we never find out what happens but if it were up to me, they should get at least ten years no parole and preferably, send them to Maricopa Country detention with the baloney sandwiches they have to buy.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: that pic above HAS to be a joke?
[ February 12, 2014, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
|
posted February 12, 2014 11:23 AM
Leonard, that is a 100% legit photo of a SWAT team member from a local PD in upstate NY.
As a parallel, just saw this video of the apprehension of a fleeing suspect on a bike. Amazingly, no shots fired, LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoPuSpXEMy0
Kudos to that cop...well done!!!
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
|
posted February 12, 2014 01:44 PM
quote:
Hey Nick, are you implying that you don't recognize anys flaws in SWAT team's plan to apprehend a non-violent "confirmed flight risk"?
Fred,
I was implying no such thing, for the record.
Also for the record, I don't particularly think this incident was handled the best it could have been. That having been said, I don't like to second guess other LEO's if I don't have all the facts, which I don't here.
So, once again for the record, what I am implying is that once you start ramming vehicles carrying armed people, cops or not, expect to get shot.
Have a good day, my friend.
[ February 12, 2014, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted February 12, 2014 02:50 PM
So, again, 49. Dozens of pursuit videos, hours long, ramming civilian and police vehicles. Is the only reason they don't just shoot the cocksucker is because of they are invariably black or brown? I notice this guy was legal, open season, color wise.
Anyway, I don't even know where I stand on this if he pulled a gun and rammed law enforcement vehicles. Maybe it's not worth talking about?
I thought the first reports said he was standing on the street with his hands up? Did I imagine it?
Good hunting. El Bee
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
|
posted February 12, 2014 03:35 PM
Every situation is different, Leonard. Driving at high speeds, I would think to LEO's would be reluctant to shoot a driver because he creates a risk to other motorists if he were to crash into them after being shot.
As far as this situation goes, the link provided by Jimanaz shows where the driver was spinning his wheels attempting to flee, and the film clip shows what looks like to be contact with the police vehicles around it. Again, I wasn't there so I won't make a general comment. Though I do think this type of operation would have been better conducted on a deserted desert road. Then again, with a violent history as well as a history of flight (according to Jim's link), perhaps the Marshals didn't want to give the subject a chance to get away. Like I said, there may be more information we aren't privy to, so I don't like to second guess.
The bottom line is, any vehicle can be a 2000 pound projectile, and can kill you as dead as a bullet. Please don't ask me how I know. And the courts thus far have conceded that a vehicle can be used as a deadly weapon, something that the police are aware of.
Perhaps you are right, and it isn't worth talking about further.
[ February 12, 2014, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
|
posted February 13, 2014 05:08 AM
Gotcha, Nick.
We're of the same opinion, only difference is your phraseology describing the situation as being: "not handled the best it could have been".
From what I'm seeing, my phraseology would describe: "a completely avoidable escalation to gunfire, resulting in the unnecessary death of a fellow human being"
But, no need to mince words about what happened...there's one less turd in the punch bowl!
Matter of fact, I'd LOVE to see these tactics used where it might actually make a perceptible difference to the safety of the general populace. IE, start sandwiching in suspected drug dealers, gang-bangers, child molestors, etc. Forget about court procedings, if they run they're GUILTY!!!
Just sandwich 'em in between two cruisers at the local mall parking lot, and fill 'em fulla lead if they run, or happen to scratch the paint off one of the cruisers!
Welcome to Germany, circa 1938.
Comply, or die.
AKA: "win stupid prizes", which supplants the Nazi undertones with those of wit & satire. Makes the Gestapo tactics more pallatable & justifiable...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
|
posted February 13, 2014 12:50 PM
Sure Fred. Whatever you say.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
