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Author
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Topic: (delivered by secret messenger)
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 08, 2014 05:57 PM
Coyotes nose, cold or hot?
Here is some food for thought.
They say a coyote can smell 200 parts per million or something like that. Just for argument sake I'll agree on that..
How far can a coyote smell? Some say a long ways off, I say not much or any farther than a dog with everything depending on wind direction and ground temp.s..
I believe if you took a bottle of ALL-season and poured on the ground a coyote could perhaps smell each speck of spice and separate vrs. a dog could not or at least not all breeds.
Lets move onto hound dogs for a spell...(coyote hounds)
Most of the hounds men I know at the moment use varis breeds that are known to have certain skills, hot nose, cold nose, gritty for killing a coyote, speed and being able to track with there nose and use there eyes as well to name just a few.
Hounds men also hunt differently with there dogs. One group will free cast there dogs and let them search for a hot track or jump a bedded coyote, very time consuming but for this group its more about watching and hearing there dogs work and not how many they kill in a day.
Next group looks for tracks crossing a road and hopes that there cold nosed dog can pick up enough scent , some hunters use a Beagle for this as they are short legged and have there nose closer to the ground vrs. other breeds. There are some hound breeds that are good at this as well. This type of hunting is also time consuming due to the fact that a dog has a one track mind and if dumped on a coyote hunting track it may take all day to get the coyote up depending on how much ground it hunted that night or if it was out searching for a mate. A coyote may cover 2-3 miles or more in a one mile section when hunting..
Next group goes in on a track or into a section that they believes holds a coyote or two, one handler and anywhere from 1-4 dogs ( this is how I hunt), the handler may stay with the track till it gets hotter for the dogs to pick up or the handler may just jump off the track if it appears that the coyote tracks are zig-zagging (coyote hunting) and move the dogs closer to cover that a coyote may be bedded up in for the day or even have the dogs free cast up in front with some directional help from the handler. What the handler is trying to do is get the dogs on the freshest track or down wind of a bedded as quickly as possible.. And if multiple coyotes are involved the handler will help the dogs get on the next freshest coyote track after the first coyote has been killed.. Watched a handler and his dogs take 5 coyotes out of a two mile section, going after one at a time.. This is the most productive way to hunt if you want to take good numbers in a day.
Dogs working a track:
Depending on wind conditions, ground conditions, (snow or bare) and temps a dog will follow a track one of two ways. With its nose down in each track (slow going) or will move with its nose up and on top of the track or will be shadowing the track if there is a cross wind. Temp.s play an important part of how a dog smells. For example I was told by a hand full of hounds men a dog can't smell its own ass if the temp.s are below +14 and found this to be true..
" I believe the temp.s also affect a coyotes nose the same as dogs." and a coyote hunts the same way working down wind of cover or just free casting hoping to bump into a prey animal or pick up its scent if its close enough.
Most vid.s of a fox or coyote out hunting shows the animal just walking along till it hears or smells something under the snow that's very close, have never seen a coyote or fox run 50 yds. and all of a sudden stop and then go on to grab a mouse..
Tracked a pair of coyotes one time that where working a drainage ditch, one coyote walked on the top edge of ditch and the other at the bottom on the ice. They came apon a hen pheasant which was spooked by the coyote on top. The pheasant runs to the bottom and is caught by this coyote. It didn't appear that the bottom coyote was sharing any of its catch and after consuming the bird the roles were switched and the coyotes just moved along till another bird tried to escape and was also caught by the coyote on the bottom...
A dog taking a track: If the scent is strong enough the dog will open up on the track or may just give out a few barks and then run silent till the scent gets stronger and in most cases will open up and go non-stop, a lot depends on the dog or breed as far as barking goes.
If a dog opens up and a coyote is close by it may jump out of its bed and take off before the dog gets to it or even see's it so the dog will be running a track mainly. A dog that goes in silent on a track will be able to keep down wind of it and the coyote and as its about to jump the coyote it will then open up full cry and the chase is on with dog much closer behind the coyote. Hopefully one of the dogs in the pack hunts with its eyes as well as its nose...
Tracks tell a story in the snow:
I've tracked coyotes and fox for many years and a set of tracks will tell you where the coyote is going and where its been and what it has done on its journey and will also show you how a coyote likes to travel through a area on calm nights and windy nights. Tracks can show you its terr. lines from front to back and also where its core area is and core area of other coyotes that may have belonged to the same family group...
Back to a coyotes nose:
Some say a coyote can smell a dead deer or cow from miles away, I say nope! they can't smell that far in the dead of winter. You may wonder why I say that. First off in most cases birds usually find the dead animal first like crows, magpies and so on. Most of these birds give out some sort of feeding call that gives the dead animals location away to other critters like the coyote. Coyotes also give out some sort of feeding howl.
This year we have been placing road killed deer out in certain areas to draw the coyotes in so we can pick up the tracks in the mourning with the dogs. For this to work the carcass has to be placed on or very close to the coyotes travel route and a little up wind of it so the coyote can smell it when it moves through the area. If the coyote moves through a section working it north to south or vise versa it will pick up the scent with a N-W wind, we also get a S-E wind here from time to time, when this happens the coyote misses the carcass if its more than 100 ft. from its travel route. Been using a call lure (skunk musk) if we can't get the carcass close enough to there travel route..
Have a few areas where we have jackrabbits, they spend most of there time around road ditches digging up the grass to feed on at night. Also have coyotes that hunt along these same ditches at night as they move through there area. First thing I notice is the ditch is all tracked up by a rabbit or two and then I see a coyote track come from an open field and comes to the rabbit tracks in the ditch. The coyote moves around through the tracks for a short period and then moves on. If a coyote has such a good nose it should of been able to track the rabbit down in the snow. Right! This tells me a coyote has a hot nose and the tracks made by the rabbit was to old for it to follow. Usually when a coyote or fox makes a rabbit kill there will be fur scattered about and frozen down some in the snow where the coyote fed. Also a coyote and fox gut there prey and don't consume the intestines so you will see a small gray colored ball frozen on the ground, stomach..
So any way HOT nose/ COLD nose. You decide...... People are giving a coyotes nose way to much credit.....
Hope you enjoyed my babbling...LOL
UNKNOWN BLOGGER
edit: How to get into a coyotes head when calling????
Good subject and something the professionals "can't figure out" or willing to tell...
I'm keeping it to myself as well... Later UB
[ January 08, 2014, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 08, 2014 06:01 PM
Unmask the Unknown Blogger
Be the first on your block
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted January 08, 2014 06:32 PM
sounds like trick Question.
thats got a southern Minnesotans name all over it!
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted January 08, 2014 06:44 PM
Whomever he is he's not from Okla. I have never seen a jack rabbit hanging around a bar ditch, cottontails yes but not a jack. As for a coyotes nose, I've watched a bunch of them thru binos, spotting scopes & rifle scopes with their noses up sniffing into the wind but I never got a chance to ask them what they were sniffing. Bearhunter probably nailed it. Is it the feller from southern Minneesotie eh?
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mike
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 08, 2014 06:54 PM
My lips are sealed, for the time being. ha
edit: I don't know what a "bar ditch" is?
[ January 08, 2014, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted January 08, 2014 08:28 PM
Not enough mis-spelled words to be from Mini-Soda.
I'm gonna take a wild assed guess and say Criner.
What do I win ???
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted January 09, 2014 03:10 AM
It's the minnesodan. I have ' varis ' reasons to think so.
[ January 09, 2014, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted January 09, 2014 04:23 AM
As Scott would say, no such thing as always or never.
But that part about coyotes gutting a rabbit made me laugh.
For one, I've witnessed coyotes eat jackrabbits a couple of times and they were consumed completely on those occasions.
And for another, I've seen where a pair of coyotes followed along behind me and Tim shooting jacks and ALL they ate was the guts out of those jacks. Seemed like when they had way more than they could eat, that's all they were taking out of each one. Just eating the guts and moving on to the next.
I guess the coyotes and jacks in MN have a different arrangement on how they get eaten or something.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted January 09, 2014 04:35 AM
i have NEVER seen a gut-pile from a jack....EVER
and we have lots of jacks here.
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted January 09, 2014 06:50 AM
Hmmm.When the blizzard killed all those cattle earlier this year in SoDak,wonder how far the coyotes migrated to that smell?Ah,maybe they couldn't smell it.They stuck with 50 yard mice I suppose.Or maybe a hen pheasant. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted January 09, 2014 07:02 AM
Read it, twice.
The lack of syntax and grammar began to make my head hurt the second time through.
Someone flunked grade school English class...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted January 09, 2014 07:07 AM
Got sucked into this, but read not one word past this....
quote:
varis
...because I don't need to get any dumber.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted January 09, 2014 07:49 AM
suggest stifling the urge to blog about hounds men ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif) and there ![[Confused]](confused.gif) hounds and read these...
In the meantime, I'm gonna measure the distance between my dog's nose, and the ground ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted January 09, 2014 08:32 AM
no mention of humidity? Worked with bird dogs for several years and I always thought humidity was at least, if not, more important to scenting ability, than temps.
I've watched coyotes eat rabbits twice. One ate a cottontail the other a jack rabbit. Both rabbits were completely eatin', from head to tail. The coyote that ate the cottontail was alone, but the coyote that ate the jackrabbit had 3 other coyotes with it, but yet the one coyote ate the whole rabbit.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 09, 2014 09:25 AM
I watched a coyote, while stopped at a signal, not two miles from home, eat a jackrabbit. He pulled it apart in chunks and ate the whole damned thing except for past the hocks of the back legs.
(edit: this was behind a chain link fence next to the hi way in an orange grove.)
Thinking about Dave's story. I wonder if those coyotes were "preserving" the rabbits for future use by eating the guts? Too far out?
I have been known to throw a red herring now and then just by deliberately misspelling a word.
Three more submissions in my inbox this morning. With links!
Good hunting. El Bee
[ January 09, 2014, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Chris S
"SPECIAL ACCOUNT" HM's Facebook page moderator & runs with scissors
Member # 3888
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posted January 09, 2014 09:45 AM
quote:
A coyote may hunt 2-3 miles in a one mile section
They don't get points for direct routes.
Using there, instead of their, gives it away as Tom Thumb Anderson.
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted January 09, 2014 10:56 AM
Wasn't me.. I don't drag dead carcasses around.
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
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posted January 09, 2014 11:07 AM
I thought for sure if I just typed, "hot / cold nose" on predatormaster's search I would find the answer!
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted January 09, 2014 11:08 AM
this coyote must've field dressed his dinner elsewhere?
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 09, 2014 02:03 PM
You folks ready for more wisdum? from The Unknown Blogger?
I just reread ^ that!
Hilarity ensued.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 09, 2014 02:31 PM
First, Jimanez gets excoriated.
Quote: I shot a 17Rem several years ago for a while and just never developed the love for 17s that some folks have. Yep, it's fast. Yep, recoil is non-existent. I just never could understand what separates 17s from 223s in the cultists. Pretty much same effective range, regardless of what follows 17, add Ackley, 204, 223 etc. Pretty much the same in fur friendliness with the right combination. Is it just the idea of killing something with a BB sized projectile. Seriously, what's the overwhelming attraction? : Un Quote
If he really truly spent some time behind a 17 cal. killing critters he would know the answer of what separates the 17 cal. from cartridges smaller than a 22-250. No the 17 cal. isn't the same as a 223, a 223 doesn't even come close. From what I have seen a 223 isn't a reliable killer at ranges past 150 yds. and I don't care what weight bullet you use in one its not the same. The 204 does come close if you can find the right bullet, perhaps the 45 gr. hornady.
I would put the bigger 17 cal.s in the same class as a 22-250 but with out the fur damage. ( 1 hole going in and nothing out)
The way things are at the moment with bullets shortages the guy looking to build should look closely at a 20-250 or 20x47 Lapua, either one is as good as a 243 win. Best regards secrete Blogger.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted January 09, 2014 02:59 PM
UNKNOWN BLOGGER SAYS:
Quote: no mention of humidity? Worked with bird dogs for several years and I always thought humidity was at least, if not, more important to scenting ability, than temps.
Humidity and temp.s go hand in hand. Whats a coyote do when humidity is dry? Stay at home till its right.... Just means they won't pick up a scent as well same as with a dog... As far as following a track the ground or snow has to be able to hold the scent in for a time in order to follow it. Snow conditions the best time is 3-6" of powdered snow no wind.. The harder the snow crusts up the less of a chance of it holding a scent. Example: concrete will not hold a scent for very long vrs. soft dirt...
Oh a bird dog isn't much for trailing running birds as they leave very little scent when moving about unless you have damp ground other wise the dog is looking for the scent from a bird nested up for the day as that when it gives out the most scent.. unknown blogger..
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted January 09, 2014 03:08 PM
Is it dog boy TT? Just a wild assed guess
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mike
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted January 09, 2014 03:22 PM
Just when the water seemed safe....
Mr Anderson
I laughed out loud. Chances are you will too!
[ January 09, 2014, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: jimanaz ]
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
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posted January 09, 2014 03:26 PM
He must have gotten spell check or you edited part of it. Tiny tim.
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