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Author
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Topic: sounds kinda like murder, to me?
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Leonard
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Member # 2
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posted October 23, 2013 01:02 PM
SANTA ROSA, CALIF. – Northern California sheriff's officials and family members say deputies shot and killed a 13-year-old boy who was carrying a replica assault weapon.
Two Sonoma County deputies saw the boy walking with the replica weapon around 3 p.m. Tuesday in Santa Rosa. Lt. Dennis O'Leary says they repeatedly ordered him to drop what appeared to be a rifle before firing several rounds.
The boy fell to the ground. Deputies handcuffed him and began administering first aid, but he was pronounced dead at the scene. O'Leary says deputies also found a plastic handgun in his waistband.
The boy's father, Rodrigo Lopez, told the Press Democrat of Santa Rosa the victim was his 13-year-old son, Andy.
The deputies have not been identified.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted October 23, 2013 02:03 PM
Sounds more like poor parenting to me.
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
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posted October 23, 2013 04:24 PM
It may have been poor parenting but they will be very rich very soon. I would bet Gloria Allred has even contacted the parents.
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
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posted October 23, 2013 04:35 PM
It may have been poor parenting but they will be very rich very soon. I would bet Gloria Allred has even contacted the parents.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 23, 2013 04:41 PM
Oh oh, oh, koko. That sounds suspiciously like a progressive liberal type of comment? Or something?
Parents may give children Grand Theft Auto or plastic guns....or he may have stole it from some rich white kid, who knows.
BUT. The responsibility for his actions aside, we have two sworn law enforcement officers, with the authority to use deadly force. Is having in your possession a plastic rifle; JUSTIFICATION FOR SHOOTING THE DUMB FUCK?
Somewhere in policy guidelines does it say, "you shoot all children that appear to be holding a weapon" or maybe they should use some judgement, like: is the child more than four foot tall, or is he pointing his toy and saying things like; "Bang, bang, you're dead!"
My knee jerk reaction is we have another case of trigger happy cops. Serious case of lack of judgement. We cannot have two policemen blowing the shit out of children with toys/bearing in mind the rationale for condemning Zimmerman shooting Trayvon in self defense. Something does not square with those two examples.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31450 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted October 23, 2013 08:52 PM
Me a liberal????............Now THATS funny.
Responsibility lies with the kid who was too ignorant to put down a weapon (real or not) when ordered to do so by L.E.O. with drawn guns and parents who failed to teach the kid common sense.
But hey, maybe my retirement plan should have been to breed a bunch of stupid kids and hope that one of them does something that I can sue the cops for. Yeah, the parents will probably win some serious coin in court.
I may seem heartless but I believe that the cops were justified in taking this kid out of the gene pool.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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DEL GUE
SECOND PLACE: Mad Bomber lookalike contest
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posted October 29, 2013 08:04 PM
It's not your fault, Leonard.
You live in California.
That does things to people, and the way they think.
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"I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart." - Bear Claw
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
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posted October 29, 2013 08:08 PM
No habla?
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DEL GUE
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posted October 29, 2013 08:17 PM
I've got a friend that moved out there and it's jacked up the way she thinks, too. I dunno if it's in the water or air or what, but something out there just seems to leach out a person's common sense. I call it 'The Pelosi Effect' on even days and 'The Feinstein Effect' on odd days. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart." - Bear Claw
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Leonard
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Member # 2
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posted October 30, 2013 07:57 AM
I'm not getting the message, Del?
You believe the police are justified in killing a 13 year old boy because he has a toy gun and does not comprehend the implied threat....
PUT IT DOWN, or we are going to blast you to smithereens?
Somewhere, somehow, I hope to hell that sworn police officers are able to exercise a little judgement, now and then. I know the dead ones are usually a bit slow recognizing a threat, but this is a fucking child. The Obama administration has defined "child" as up to age 26, for purposes such as a dependent on a health insurance policy. But, if two police officers are not able to tell a toy reproduction and can't determine they are dealing with a innocent boy of 13, then God help us!
Maybe you didn't mean my attitude is fucked up because of where I live?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted October 31, 2013 05:13 AM
What type of neighborhood was this?
I think police would be more on "edge" if a bad ass motherfucker carrying a gun looking thingy in Compton, CA versus in Boise, ID
[ October 31, 2013, 05:14 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted October 31, 2013 09:34 AM
This is a shitty deal for sure. On one hand the officers claim that the boy turned and raised the gun at them, as a cop I suppose we would all be a little unnerved by that in that situation but on the other hand common sense tells us that children at play don't pay attention to anything until that interruption of their play time becomes overwhelmingly noticeable ie a cop shouting from behind you, then as you turn around to see what all the hoopla is about.... someone empties their Glock into your chest.
I know the cop could've probably done much better in this scenario no doubt but I don't think it was a "cowboy" attitude that caused this, just a lack of judgment in a split second situation. This is a terrible tradgedy that has ruined lives.... I don't wish ill on anyone involved, I don't know what the answer is LB, better training? I don't know..... it's sad all the way around. Hindsight is always 20/20
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 31, 2013 11:14 AM
Whatever it is, it is basically two cops overreacting to some kind of threat. I don't know, and can't imagine how two grown men could have got themselves into such a mess? I mean, they weren't beamed down from the Enterprise, they had to walk into the situation. At what point, while walking did a casual encounter escalate into a life and death panic, yank the trigger, kill or be killed?
Seems to me that every one of us, with lethal force in our hands has to see and evaluate a situation every day. You can't just PANIC and blow the shit out of someone without a damned good reason. This wasn't Midnight at the Oasis.
As usual, we won't be getting the whole story. Our news media is so pathetic.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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DEL GUE
SECOND PLACE: Mad Bomber lookalike contest
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posted October 31, 2013 09:28 PM
"Maybe you didn't mean my attitude is fucked up because of where I live?"
Yeah, that was pretty much what I meant.
My friend was a hardcore, 2nd Amendment Ronald Reagan republican until she moved out there, and I have noted a subtle but distinct shift in some of her thought processes since she moved out there. The term that comes to mind is 'corrosive'.
And would somebody please go tell that dead former Marine math teacher that it was just a 'child' that shot him dead at the school where he was trying to teach kids math so they could make something of themselves?
What universe are you living in, Leonard? 'Children' are killing people left and right, making folks dead forever just like adults do. Or is California different? What, juveniles don't kill people in Compton and Oakland and South L.A.?
I saw a pic of that 'AK' that the kid had, and it looked one helluva lot like an AK to me.
So tell me something. If somebody comes into your house and has what looks like a gun, are you gonna wait for them to shoot at you with it to confirm it's a real gun before you shoot them?
Calling what happened a 'murder' is way off the mark, amigo. That's the kind of thing I'd expect to hear out of Pelosi or Feinstein, not you.
Other than that, how you been doing lately?
[ October 31, 2013, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: DEL GUE ]
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"I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart." - Bear Claw
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jimanaz
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posted November 01, 2013 12:21 AM
Watch the video, look at the replica compared to a real AK. If ANYBODY, man, woman, or child turned toward me and even remotely looked like they were bringing it to bear....1 Adam 12, shots fired. Pay special attention to the part where they talk about Andy's father and his response...refer to my "No habla?" comment.
Even here, in the cowboy capital, you'd be nuts to do what Andy did, 13 or not. +1 to Del's comment about kids being just as lethal as anyone else with a gun and the intent. Sad deal all around, but that's the world we're living in today. That kid didn't deserve to die, but those cops deserved to go home to their families too.
The "weapon"
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted November 01, 2013 05:10 AM
I agree with JD, word for word.
Not possible to rest blame on squarely on anyone. Sadly, it was an "imperfect storm" of factors that had to come together at the same time to cause a tragedy. Remove any one factor, and a tragedy is relegated to a "close call".
Unfortunately, a young man is dead, a family lost a child, and a cop is mind-fucked for Life.
Sometimes this kinda shit just ISN'T preventable. Could shoulda woulda, doesn't always fit the scenario.
Accidents happen. Tough to accept when fatal, irreversible consequences result...
I feel badly for the kid's loved ones and the cop who killed him.
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Leonard
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Member # 2
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posted November 01, 2013 04:44 PM
Same old story, Del. bunker mentality on the part of law enforcement. Only now, it's not just everybody that is gunning for those poor beleagured and overworked police officers, it's the children they are afraid of! Our kids are out to kill every cop they see, so they better shoot first. LB
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Bofire
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posted November 01, 2013 07:34 PM
My feel is the kid was turning
"to say, it's ok see? its just a toy"
naive on his part, he probaly liked cops, trusted them. I do think the cops were a bit to quick, but not so quick as to be criminal. I do not see a black or white answer here.
Carl
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
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posted November 03, 2013 07:18 AM
Kid cuts off the bright orange muzzle device, looks old enough to be a gangbanger, doesn't comply with the neighbor driving by who tells him to get rid of it cause the cops are coming, nor the cops command to drop the weapon and instead he turns pointing the gun at the officer.
I'm pretty sure I'd have shot too.
But since he was a minority and used an assault rifle, they will use this to fully fund illegal aliens and ban all guns. Notice the second rally was for "racial profiling"?
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
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posted November 03, 2013 08:54 AM
quote:
it's the children they are afraid of! Our kids are out to kill every cop they see, so they better shoot first. LB
Dam right they are as those little bastards are doing most of the senseless killing in the bigger cities. No limit to just cops especially if they are just starting to join a gang, someone's mother, sister, brother will also be a target.
If I was in the cops shoes I may have done the same thing, as its better to be alive than dead.
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DEL GUE
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posted November 05, 2013 02:24 PM
No, Leonard, it's not 'bunker mentality' on the part of law enforcement. The cops hear all day, every day, about all the shootings and near shootings in their towm. You only hear about the stuff that makes the papers.
You have the luxury to stop and consider and debate and Monday-morning quarterback the cops decisions at your leisure. For you, it's an abstract discussion. For us, it's very, very real. We have to face the guns, we have to make those split-second decisions over whether to shoot or not shoot, and the consequences are very real and very lethal, either for us or the honest citizens or the bad guys or the stupid kids who don't drop a gun, toy or otherwise, when a cop is pointing his very real pistol at the person yelling for them to DROP THE GUN and they don't, instead they swing the muzzle in our direction. For us it's not an exercise or a discussion, it's very fuckin real and our lives and the lives of others hangs in the balance. Kids kill people all the time. You're not less dead or just quasi-dead or kinda dead or play dead just because a kid is the one who kills you...dead is fuckin dead. It's nice that you have the luxury of pondering all these shootings, because we don't have that luxury on the street in real-time.
Don't misunderstand me, I know that there's no getting through to you. But for us it's not abstract. We have to go out there and do the job.
Take care.
[ November 05, 2013, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: DEL GUE ]
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"I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart." - Bear Claw
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Leonard
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Member # 2
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posted November 05, 2013 03:10 PM
Yeah, you are right, you won't get through to me because i think cops are there to maintain the peace. Their overriding objective is law and order, not self preservation. If cops are that tramatized, they better find some other, less stressful occupation. They volunteered, they weren't drafted against their will. My attitude is the life and the security of the fucking citizen is more important that the cop. That's your job, pal. You already ha e the bulletproof vest and the best weapons money can buy and a millon dollars worth of tech support. What does some stupid kid have? NOTHING, right? And you're scared? No fucki g wonder. No wonder there is a disconnect between an honest citizen and the jackbooted thugs writing their afteraction lies. I wouldn't have a fucking job like that for all the tea in China. You guys ain't right. And, you goddamned right; I do pay your very generous salary and. Benefits. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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the bearhunter
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posted November 05, 2013 06:23 PM
leonard. go get laid. you're going off the deep end.
Del makes very good points.
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DEL GUE
SECOND PLACE: Mad Bomber lookalike contest
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posted November 05, 2013 07:48 PM
Leonard, you pay us to do what you can't or won't do yourselves. And then you feel free to criticize us for the way we do it.
It's your California liberal attitudes that they are just poor misunderstood youth and children of tender years while they maim and rape and kill that created such monsters in the first place.
You call us jack-booted thugs and yet you expect us to die protecting your ass and you don't give a shit if we do. Nice. You're fuckin' welcome.
[ November 05, 2013, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: DEL GUE ]
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"I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart." - Bear Claw
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DEL GUE
SECOND PLACE: Mad Bomber lookalike contest
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posted November 05, 2013 08:20 PM
I think I'm going down to Dick's tomorrow and getting me a freshwater fishin' license. I ain't been fishin' in forever and I'm feelin the urge. I just gotta be careful cuz we got big green lizards down here that come rarin' up outta the water on occasion trying to eat you. They are vestiges of the dinosaurs and have little wee brains and huge bigass teeth. People get bitten every year, sometimes killed, sometimes they just lose an arm or fingers or their foo-foo dog or something. Myakka River State Park is crawlin' with them. I enjoy fishin and all but I am disinclined to fight, fuck, and wrestle with a gator as part of the enterprise. The funny part is using a fly rod for bluegill and havin' one hit a round dinny and go to set the hook and the poor fish goes flyin' past your head as a result. Truly an 'ooops' moment, albeit one filled with an iota of amusement. Maybe I'll go saltwater fishin, too, or instead, although to be honest it never held the allure of freshwater fishin'. Chunkin' worms and Rattletraps and spinnerbaits or whippin' the air with the fly rod is really where it's at. Maybe I should write a manifesto or somethin'...
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"I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart." - Bear Claw
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