|
Author
|
Topic: Another concealed carry question
|
booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
|
posted September 23, 2013 04:17 PM
Hate to bug all of you with questions, but thought I would poll you all and get an opinion.
Just received my Kansas CCH card in the mail. I know that should a person be involved in some sort of incident, the chances of being sued are quite high.
With what lawyers charge today, it could put quite a dent in someone's pocket book just trying to fend off someone trying to sue the crap out of you even if you were in the right.
What prompted this question was an ad I heard on talk radio today for 'insurance' that would help defend against lawsuits in situations where you had to actually pull your gun and shoot someone.
Being in the finance industry, it sounds like some sort of liability policy that covers you, (probably with a very high deductible), if in case you have to use their services.
I just wanted to get an idea if anyone has checked that out, or actually has signed up under one of those plans?
I do have a friend and neighbor that does our legal work, but he is not a criminal defense attorney.
I hope like hell it never comes to that, but just wanted to explore all the options available.
[ September 23, 2013, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: booger ]
--------------------
If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted September 23, 2013 04:57 PM
I have to say that this is the overriding question in my mind. One thing to remember is make sure the punk is dead. Double tap, etc. Yes, relatives can sue in his behalf but they are considerably weakened. A punk with serious injuries can argue "he said, she said" or some variation and as long as he can move his lying lips he may succeed in a sympathy vote from a ethnically balanced jury, stacked in his favor. Think OJ.
You just better hope they don't trash the STAND YOUR GROUND laws. While writing this I am constantly reminded of the Trayvon case. That poor schmuck Zimmerman can't catch a break, his loyal wife leaves him and throws rocks while doing it. Then the media starts a bogus report that he flashed a gun and they went berserk with it. Forget checking sources, they repeated the lie and then it was another situation where the lawyer asks "When did you stop beating your wife?"
I tell ya, it's almost not worth it, just let them kill ya; end of problem.
Good hunting. El Bee
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
|
posted September 23, 2013 05:44 PM
"One thing to remember is make sure the punk is dead."
---------------------
Exactly! Now you know why I carry a Beretta model 8045 "Cougar" in .45 ACP which is loaded with 230 grain hollow points.
--------------------
If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
|
posted September 23, 2013 08:22 PM
Booger, my concern is what would happen if you were forced to defend yourself at work? Seems you have mentioned before that you're in the banking industry. I'm not sure how that would matter except during work hours, your institution might be liable for your actions.
But in an away from work incident, I don't care what happens, you have every right to defend yourself and your family. Just the other day, I heard that 70 federal agencies have tac response teams at the ready. If they can defend themselves, i'm going to defend myself, same as any cop and feel the same laws that protect them apply to you and me, excepting Calif, New Yawk etc
--------------------
mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
|
posted September 24, 2013 05:39 AM
Prune Picker,
Good point...it has crossed my mind, but we are taught to give the robber anything they want. I would probably agree that the bank would be held liable, especially if innocent people were hurt.
I don't want to sound flippant here, but no amount of other people's money is worth getting hurt for--we have insurance for that. If the worthless SOB comes in with homicide in his heart..well that is another story.
I agree with LB. Was told by a LEO friend of mine that dead men don't sue, BUT their family sure as hell does.
I think a person would probably prevail in a righteous shoot, but how much will it cost in the end?
--------------------
If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
|
posted September 24, 2013 06:09 AM
I think a person would probably prevail in a righteous shoot, but how much will it cost in the end?
Less than you or your love ones life.
kj
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
|
posted September 24, 2013 06:56 AM
Like Kelly made mention; if it's a black and white righteous shoot, odds are good you will never even see the inside of a courtroom.
The alternative is, your kneeling in front of some puke, waiting your turn at execution because you didn't want to be carrying concealed.
Having a firearm on you doesn't guarantee saftey in bad situations , but it does guarantee you have a chance and ability to change the outcome of a bad situation.
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
|
posted September 24, 2013 07:06 AM
Absolutely! I agree fully!
I guess I should have re-phrased that...I was speaking in general terms, not for myself.
I am a big boy and my choice to carry or not to carry if I am alone is on me...my biggest fear is not being able to protect my wife if we are out and got into a life/death situation.
I could never live with myself if I had the ability to protect her and ended up having her get hurt because I was not carrying.
In that case I could give a rat's butt if I got sued.
Unfortunately, I think the Zimmerman case was bad for people in that it may cause them to think of the consequences if they pull the trigger. That hesitation could be fatal.
--------------------
If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted September 24, 2013 07:37 AM
You know, a long time ago, I worked with a "Man Mountain" type, who was fairly competent. One day the subject came up and he said; "Nothing I have is worth a man's life."
Never would have suspected him as a sheeple The problem with his attitude is, the cocksucker might kill you anyway! Leave no witness, or the Media inspired; "White man has had me in chains all my life and I resent it." Now, that's reason enough to end all the mollycoddling cradle to grave, Democrat instituted, welfare system, but we were talking about self defense, weren't we?
Come to think of it, that's another strike against we tax payers. Only a racist would shoot a poor black man.
Weeze fuked. LB
edit: every time I write something like that, I am conscious of Dave's remarks concerning his decent black friends. But, you know what? I have the utmost respect for legitimate, decent black people who have joined the working class of society. Wouldn't it be nice if every black person you meet on the street had the same values? But, most of them can't forget the chains, never mind the gratitude. A million white men died to free the slaves, we elected an incompetent black man; doesn't that mean anything? I dunno?
[ September 24, 2013, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
|
posted September 24, 2013 08:40 AM
"Nothing I have is worth a man's life."
Ok..........But let's keep in mind that a `man` would not put you in a position where you had to draw a weapon on him.
A Dirtbag, on the other hand, who threatened me, my family, my dog or anything else I own, I wouldn't value to much.
--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8231 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Terminator
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4415
|
posted September 24, 2013 08:46 AM
I have my Colorado CCW permit, Dead people don't sue!
--------------------
RIP Bullet
04-17-2013
You are missed, and thanks for the great memories:-)
Posts: 51 | From: Rocky Mountains | Registered: Jun 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted September 24, 2013 08:49 AM
All I can tell you is that I wonder if I am too conflicted, when the time comes. Will I have a legal mess on my hands, or will I react instinctively to protect my life?
Take the mall shooting scenario. You haul out your piece in response to a deranged perp, and suddenly a trigger happy off duty popo takes you out. Oops!
Good hunting. El Bee
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
|
posted September 24, 2013 10:20 AM
Speaking of a legal mess;
Let's say you're at the mall.
You're carrying concealed, w/permit.
You see a dirtbag draw a weapon and begin shooting innocents.
You are in a position of cover and not really in too much danger.
Although you have a clear shot at the dirtbag's back, you consider the Zimmerman mess and hold your fire.
More innocents are killed until an off duty cop ends it.
Question; Could a family member of one of the deceased innocents sue you for NOT intervening???
Hint; Before you say no and cite case law, consider how fuked up our court system is.
Here in Az. we don't need a Permit to carry open or concealed. There is thinking that it could be better to not have a paper trail leading to someone who choses to quietly carry.
--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8231 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted September 24, 2013 12:22 PM
Welcome to my world, koko. I can't carry, concealed, holstered or any other way. So, if I elect to be a hero and take out the scumbag, any ideas on how long it will be, before I am arrested and need a very good lawyer? Then, I will need a civil lawyer concerning a small wrongful death situation. As I said above, you really have to wonder if it's worth it? All except a direct threat. But, a good citizen stopping a bank robbery or something similar....forget it.
And, that's where we are at, in The People's Republik. The friggin' liberals have this state completely fucked up. And, did you notice, as I predicted, the legislature voted to outlaw all lead ammunition. So, even if I was justified in killing some deranged lunatic that had already shot 25 innocent people, the assholes would still prosecute me for violating the "Condor Ammo Ban".
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: can you foresee a time in the near future where all those 70 odd agencies would send their SWAT teams to your house at 3:00 A.M. to confiscate your lead ammo? Farfetched? I don't think so.
[ September 24, 2013, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted September 24, 2013 01:39 PM
In okie land, it is simply against the law to shoot someone unless my life, the life of a loved one or my employees / customers lives are in danger.
I couldn't shoot a mall shooter until he threatened me or mine. The question is how could I not intervene?
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
|
posted September 24, 2013 01:56 PM
My feelings are that the government is in deep thought about the Zimmerman verdict. I can say for certain that the "professional" cops around here have raised the threat level concerning the Stand Your Ground laws. They do not care for the fact that everyone they stop or come into contact with, for whatever the reason, may be packing. It seems to have lessened their control of I've got a badge and a gun and I'm in control here. Agree or not, it's coming. I have seen the "I'm profiling you" look, and questioned a cop that I consider a friend about it. He turned all red in the face and admitted that the most recent ninja school introduced a new threat level. If your not in uniform you are a suspect.
--------------------
mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted September 24, 2013 02:35 PM
NOT NEW, PP. It's always been us against them, for L.E. Admittedly, it is probably a recent twist where they have to assume everybody's packing. I wonder, were I a cop, would I not figure it's a good thing, find comfort in knowing there is help from an ordinary citizen, should I get myself in a jamb. Nah. <sigh>
Then too, it seems like cops are very misinformed about weapons in the hands of the general population.
Good hunting. Lima Brav 0
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
|
posted September 24, 2013 03:32 PM
It's been a while since I have been pulled over but in the past my CC permit has lightened the situation and got me out of at least 3 speeding tickets, a waive through on a road block and calmed a late night confrontation with a West Texas cop that went nuts (not in a good way) when he saw our machine guns.
I sure hope it stays that way.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
|
posted September 24, 2013 07:47 PM
LB, you're probably correct in your assessment of todays cops. Until I saw the profile look, I would have debated the extent of us vs them at a state level (Okla). Maybe the Boston terrorist attack accelerated the paranoia but the outcome of Zimmerman's verdict, regardless of black on white or black on brown color issue have the law dogs humped. Federal money and brainwashing is the culprit.
--------------------
mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
|
posted September 25, 2013 08:08 AM
Interaction with law enforcement has always been one of my concerns when carrying. Here in our neck of the world, I am familiar with most of the county deputies, Kansas Highway Patrol officers, and local policemen.
The older salts don’t have much of a problem with the new law, but the new guys out of the academy with the high and tight haircuts are the ones that concern me. Under Kansas law, you are not required to disclose you are either a CCH holder or carrying when stopped. You have to answer if asked, though.
One of the guys that teaches hunter education with me also does concealed carry classes. He was stopped last week by a young county deputy that went into full-tilt boogie hyper drive when he found out my buddy was a CCH holder AND carrying when he got stopped for speeding.
The young deputy then did something really unprofessional and stupid when he asked this guy, ‘We aren’t going to have any trouble, are we??’ My friend answered, ‘Not unless you want any!’—probably not the smartest thing to say, but it is just this kind crap that concerns me. Frankly, I am surprised he didn’t get his ass yanked out of the car and get hooked up—he said he really regretted saying it, but it pissed him off at the time.
With everything we have to go through to get our CCH permits, you would think the LEO’s would understand we are the good guys, but I guess they don’t see it that way.
--------------------
If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
|
posted September 25, 2013 08:43 AM
I had a similar experience a while back. Was stopped for tail light or some such bullshit; probably just wanted to check me out because of where I was poking around. Officer was very pleasant,and casually asked if I had a firearm, to which I answered "sure do". He asked " Im not going to have to worry about you going for it am I"....I pleasantly replied, Only if I see you grabbing for yours, we both had a laugh and he sent me on my way with no problems.
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted September 25, 2013 06:31 PM
The one that kinda irks me is when they see a gun in plain sight; they ask if I have a permit for that? My reply is usually something like, "I sure do, it's called the Second Amendment to the Constitution of The United States."
I have never had a reply, but I guess it satisfies their question?
But, it's a little different for me when I'm in another state as opposed to you guys driving around locally. I don't want to be in the position where they decide they have probably cause for something and find a concealed weapon. I'd rather have it out there in plain sight.
Sometimes they don't say anything, but the problem for me is, sometimes it's a loaded revolver and I don't know if a loaded revolver is a crime, or not? Probably is?
Good hunting. El Bee
[ September 26, 2013, 05:32 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
|
posted September 25, 2013 09:26 PM
Leonard, it's easy enough to look up states law concerning having a firearm in your vehicle. Most western states your likely to be driving in for hunting etc, have the same or similar law regarding firearms in your vehicle. As long as it is in a holster,zippered case,plastic box etc, it can be anywhere in the vehicle ie: under the seat,in a console,between your legs, glove box or right next to you. The key is having it "in " something, if it is just a naked firearm, under the seat, there is likely going to be a problem.
Every state I pass thru on my way to and from Arizona, recognizes my CCW so I never have had a problem. It is when Ive traveled to your state I always worried about being stopped with my firearm in the truck. Im ignorant about California laws regarding such, luckily, last time I was there was many years ago for a revolver competition and I don't forsee any need in the future to return.
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted September 26, 2013 05:31 AM
I don't know where it started, CA used to be okay? Not anymore. Funny how the friggin' Liberal BS creeps up on ya. If I don't get out of this state, I might go nuts.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
|
posted September 29, 2013 09:08 AM
One thing I have heard is the family's lawyer will wait until the criminal case is over with before bringing the wrongful death suit forward. That way if you are in prison, you cannot show up to defend yourself.
In Utah you can carry a loaded hand gun in the car(not sure if a CCW is required for that right) but you cannot carry a loaded long gun. They don't care what you carry in the car in Az.
California's laws vary from city to city and county to county. They's all fucked up. I always bring bad ass guns with high caps into Ca when traveling there. I really can't see a cop going though the car of a 60 year old couple with clean records, and I don't want to ever be there right after the big one hits. Especially don't want to be there without weapons right after the big one hits. The ghetto rats will be raping and plundering afterwards.
--------------------
Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1937 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
