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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 06, 2013, 08:42 PM:
Wow! You don't have to be Catholic to appreciate this........
Chris Matthews - Cardinal Bergoglio Interview - NEVER AIRED
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 20:25:06 -0500
Cardinal Bergoglio, before he became Pope Francis I, and News Commentator Chris Matthews.
This interview is but definitely an eye-opener. Shockingly truthful and pointed.
I know many of you are not Catholic, but you don't have to be to understand and appreciate what is stated below. You may not, in fact, like to hear the message presented by Bergoglio, but he has a message for every American and for every politician in this country. You may not agree with everything stated, especially with his religious perspectives, but you cannot deny the adherence to his religious principles, and the obvious baiting by the media commentator, Chris Matthews. This interview was NEVER aired, and for obvious reasons. In my opinion, Bergoglio definitely has his hand on the pulse of the world, and I respect him for that.
The following is a transcript of an interview between CHRIS MATTHEWS,
MSNBC American journalist, and then Cardinal Bergoglio.
It is clear why the interview was never broadcast.
________________________
CAMERA ON
/ BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
REPORTER: Welcome Cardinal.
BERGOGLIO: Thank you. Happy to speak with you.
REPORTER: Well, let me get into it directly. Last conclave, you were almost
elected Pope. Can this happen again?
BERGOGLIO: What? That I will almost be the Pope, again?
REPORTER: No. Will you be the next Pope?
BERGOGLIO: Friend, I’m only jesting with you. I understand the question. I will
not be the next Pope
REPORTER: Why not?
BERGOGLIO: I chose not to. God has someone else in mind I’m certain.
REPORTER: But you would take the job if it were offered.
BERGOGLIO: I think not.
REPORTER: Why not.
BERGOGLIO: I believe I’m too embroiled in the secular fiasco. It is a spiritual
job and I’m a soldier. Look at the nature of power. In Europe first and now in
America, elected men have taken it upon themselves to indebt their people to
create an atmosphere of dependency. And why? For their own selfish need to
increase their own personal power. I’ve been a keen observer of the effect this
has
on the people, especially the poor. They are very good at creating poverty
where there is no reason to explain it. My job is try to alleviate poverty and
if that means to oppose the cause then I will not be Pope.
REPORTER: But you are worried you would be a spend thrift pope?
BERGOGLIO: Friend. Where did you go to school?
REPORTER: La Salle College High School in Pennsylvania and.
BERGOGLIO: And after that?
REPORTER: College of the Holy Cross.
BERGOGLIO: They told me you were Catholic. Once elected the Pope is by virtue of
the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of
error. God would change any spend thrift politician into a responsible Pope. I’m
just saying I’m not that man.
REPORTER: So what is your job?
BERGOGLIO: My job is to ask you? why are men creating poverty??
REPORTER: What do you
mean?
BERGOGLIO: I mean that poverty is part of the natural condition and that is bad
enough. But my task is to prevent the aggravation of this condition. The
ideology that adds to the poverty must be denounced. I have and this is the
reason I will not be Pope. I have a saying for myself, No more poverty than God
originally intended in the fall from Grace.?
REPORTER:
Oh.
BERGOGLIO: It is a spiritual choice and I’m a political person. I’m sorry. I
know you will make more money from this interview if I’m Pope. Or want to be
Pope. But I’m sorry. I can’t help you. God has already chosen someone anyway.
Right? You learned this in school?
REPORTER: Yes. Well? Where are you on the issues that matter
most, issues
about
contraception, women priests?
BERGOGLIO: This might be a surprise to you, but I am Catholic. We are Catholic.
It isn't an issue and for you to pretend that it is being debated goes against
God.
REPORTER: If you were Pope then you would not change anything.
BERGOGLIO: Certainly God would direct the new Pope to have more compassion for
these newly created poor. And if there is any social justice in the Church, the
new Pope would have a stern word for the creators of the new situation.
REPORTER: But you are staunchly orthodox on the issues of abortion,
contraception, and same-sex marriage.
BERGOGLIO: I am catholic.
REPORTER: You were punished for opposed same-sex marriage in Argentina. You
opposed free contraception and the government exiled you. What do you have to
say about that?
BERGOGLIO: I am
catholic.
REPORTER: In the secular world, as you say, you follow the conservative line.
You oppose, uh, same-sex marriages, very popular with young people. You are
conservative on birth control. Won’t that be the doom of the Church, alienating
young people who support reality based faith?
BERGOGLIO: Since God created the world, he also
created
reality. You seem to be
arguing that a man can’t be Catholic in reality. Son, you are a Catholic?
REPORTER: Yes, of course. I meant no disrespect
BERGOGLIO: You don’t have to worry about offending me.
REPORTER: Okay, good. Can a, uh, Pope even be elected if he is pro-choice or
pro-love? I mean isn’t the election sort of fixed in favor of anti-abortion and
anti-gay marriage?
BERGOGLIO: Yes, the election is fixed by God.
REPORTER: Very witty.
BERGOGLIO: Well, you did ask.
REPORTER: It is being reported in America that you are against marriage
equality. Is that why you feel that you can’t be Pope?
BERGOGLIO: God chooses the Pope and God also made men and women different.
REPORTER: But you are ...a conservative and oppose abortion!
BERGOGLIO: Friend
the expression on your face gives you away.
REPORTER: I’m sorry, I’m just trying to do my job.
BERGOGLIO: And what job is that?
REPORTER: I’ve been sent to interview eight men in line for the papacy.
BERGOGLIO: And I guarantee you that they
all oppose
abortion. So?
REPORTER: But?
BERGOGLIO: So, you feel like you need to alienate the eight from the flock?
REPORTER: That isn’t it. How can the church attract young people when it is
opposed to abortion and contraception?
BERGOGLIO: Young people are just as attracted to the truth as they are
convenience and expediency. So we will call it a draw.
REPORTER: Doesn't the church need to modernize?
BERGOGLIO: Finally, I’ve met someone who will advocate publicly painting over
the Sistine Chapel with one of the contemporary street artists. Are you sure you
support this and in public?
REPORTER: What?
BERGOGLIO: Forgive me, I was rude.
REPORTER: Won’t the new pope, don't these cardinals realize what they've gotta
do if they want to attract young people to the church?
BERGOGLIO: I am a cardinal.
REPORTER: Won’t the new pope, don't you and the other cardinals realize what
they must do if they want to attract young people to the church?
BERGOGLIO: I’ve explained the mysteries of the atom to rural young people and
also I’ve explained the
Grace of God. And you know what? They can
understand
both perfectly well. Frankly, I have more trouble with adults understanding
both.
REPORTER: But they have done focus groups; if you want to spread your message
you can't have this position that's anti-gay marriage and anti-contraception.
BERGOGLIO: And you treat the church as a political institution.
REPORTER: So we were not gonna see any kind of change when it comes to things
that matter like abortion or gay marriage?
BERGOGLIO: All eight of the men you will be talking to are Catholic.
REPORTER: Okay, I understand. Let’s talk about your controversial stand on
poverty.
BERGOGLIO: You want it to be controversial?
REPORTER: But don’t you blame various governments around the world for poverty?
BERGOGLIO: Some. Yes.
REPORTER: But you refuse to blame corporations for their
role.
BERGOGLIO: Okay, they also told me you have a degree in economics. No buyer, or
seller either, enters into any exchange against his will. It is the nature of
the economy. Man is frail, and he makes mistakes and sometimes is greedy and
they enter into exchanges that don’t help them. Sometimes they become poor, but
they made choices. There is nothing the Church can do except try to educate
people to become good consumers. Chiefly, for me, it is an education solution on
that side. And the Church has more schools around the globe than any other
faith. I say teach the people to save their souls, and also teach them how not
to become poor. And now not to allow the government to trick them into poverty.
REPORTER: And you blame government.
BERGOGLIO: No, I blame the self-serving politicians.
REPORTER: So your solution to poverty is to change the nature of politics?
BERGOGLIO: Please feel free to broadcast this; I don’t want to be pope. Friend,
you are a socialist and your friends are socialists. And you are the reason for
70 years of misery in Russia and Europe now is seizing in pain from your
policies. You believe in the redistribution of wealth and it makes entire
populations poor. You want to nationalize everything and bring every human
endeavor under your control. You destroy a manes incentive to take care of his
very own family, a crime against nature and nature’s God. You want social
control over populations and incrementally you are making everything against the
law. Together this ideology creates more poverty today than all the corporations
you vilify have in the history of man.
REPORTER: I’ve never heard such from a Cardinal. I’m not sure if you are here
to help yourself or disqualify yourself.
BERGOGLIO: Please air this interview. People being dominated by socialists need
to know we don’t all have to be poor. Some poverty is part of our being cast out
of the Garden of
Eden. But look at the empire of dependency created by Hugo
Chavez. Promising them, tricking them into worship of government and his very
own person. Giving them fish but not allowing them to fish. If a fisherman does
develop a talent today in Latin America; he is castigated and his catch stolen
by the socialists. He stops?
REPORTER: You would be the first pope from the Americas.
BERGOGLIO: He stops fishing. I will not be pope, but yes I am from Argentina.
REPORTER: And you didn't want to be pope?
BERGOGLIO: God didn’t want me to be pope.
REPORTER: Perhaps he changed his mind.
BERGOGLIO: Ludicrous.
REPORTER: Okay, I’m sorry. I feel like we are getting off on the wrong path. I’m
sorry.
ERGOGLIO: Yes, let’s be productive.
REPORTER: You are a classic conservative Catholic
theologian?
BERGOGLIO: Of course there's politics clearly in the Curia throughout the
Vatican, but in terms of church teaching, it's not a political institution. It's
religious.
REPORTER: I heard people, in fact, media people, "Is this cardinal, is he a
liberal? Is he a conservative?"
BERGOGLIO: Tell them please, He's a Catholic. It's no more complicated than
that. Catholicism is what it is. You don't have to believe it; you may not. You
don't have to follow it; you may not go to Mass. But it's not up to you to
modernize us.
REPORTER: You see no room for reform?
BERGOGLIO: It's not up to any religion, although some do this, 'cause they want
the money. They want the membership. But the Catholic Church doesn't do it. It's
not up to them to bend and shape and mold itself to accommodate the shrinking
depravity of a worldwide culture. It's to provide the exact opposite. It's to
provide a beacon out of depravity, socialism and sin, among other things.
REPORTER: If
pope you would be bad news for the left.
BERGOGLIO: I won’t be pope. But I am opposed to abortion. I’m opposed to
euthanasia. The pro-choice movement is a culture of death. I oppose the demonic
same-sex marriage. I oppose gay adoption on the grounds that it is
discriminatory to the child. I was exiled by the Cristina Kirchner government,
but I hold no grudge. How is this bad news?
REPORTER: John Paul II rescued you?
BERGOGLIO: He made me the archbishop of Buenos Aires. Yes.
REPORTER: And so you feel like you owe the Right some sort of repayment?
BERGOGLIO: There are many values? and many types of people. Perhaps it is my
interest in mathematics, but I’m the type of human who is interested most in the
truth. God
gave me a healthy love for the truth. Loyalty is only a virtue if in
support of the truth or another important value.
REPORTER: Cristina Kirchner said you held a grudge.
BERGOGLIO: Funny I've never spoken her name. Not once. And it is a battle of
ideas not a battle of two or more people. I’m only concerned with ideas.
REPORTER: She said you refused to speak up for civil rights violations.
BERGOGLIO: As a spiritual leader, I opposed cultural modernization, and so I
became a political enemy. I understand politics as well as I do mathematics.
REPORTER: And the Jesuits, they were eager to cast you out, which they did.
BERGOGLIO: So you are implying that I’m a vengeful priest?
REPORTER: Do you feel that you need to erase the progress recently made in Latin
America?
BERGOGLIO: I say poverty. You say progress.
REPORTER: Let’s talk about
poverty.
BERGOGLIO: Sure, there is voluntary poverty that is virtuous. Many understood
the nobility of making themselves independent of the fleeting things of earth.
They are distractions from our pursuit of the truth. I have no problem with
this. I only oppose involuntary poverty.
REPORTER: That is what I thought you would say.
BERGOGLIO: Why?
REPORTER: Because you are a capitalist right?
BERGOGLIO: Yes, I think capital is needed to build a factory, a parochial
school, or a church or hospital, all. Do you oppose factories or churches or
hospitals?
REPORTER: Of course not but don’t you think the capital is sucked out of peoples
hands by greedy business types to pay for these factories?
BERGOGLIO: No, I think people agree, through their economic choices, that some
of their money goes to build these. Capital building should be voluntary. Only
when the politician confiscates their wealth, to build government factories,
government schools, government hospitals; only then do the people not agree.
Money given voluntarily is legitimate to build with. Money coerced from the
people is not legitimate to build with, because it isn’t given voluntarily.
REPORTER: You are opposed to all government?
BERGOGLIO: No of course not. But it isn’t the seat of wisdom in any society
I’ve
seen in my life. The best government was created by the Americans, in which they
admitted that people are endowed by their creator and most of the administration
of society was left to the relationship between God and man. However, slowly
that has been eroded by the atheists on the left, who would replace manes
relationship with God with a new relationship with an opportunist like Hugo
Chavez.
REPORTER: I just found it fascinating that you were willing to stand up to an
entire government in Argentina. You where cast aside. Didn’t you care about your
career?
BERGOGLIO: Yes, there are people who cave to worldly authority. Even priests.
REPORTER: But you didn’t?
BERGOGLIO: No, I changed nothing. How did I have the power to change anything in
church teaching? My opinion? The democrats, seeking votes, only wanted me to
change my opinion and legitimize their decadence. I did not, as evidenced by the
fact that I was teaching high school math in small isolated town.
REPORTER: I’m sorry that happened to you.
BERGOGLIO: Why don’t you feel for others oppressed for their interest in
freedom.
REPORTER: Freedom isn’t punished anywhere, is it?
BERGOGLIO: Certainly it is.
REPORTER: In Latin
America?
BERGOGLIO: I’m afraid Latin America is lost. The people of the entire area are
controlled by a bloc of militant socialist regimes in the region, most
prominently Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia and Nicaragua. They have a gun pointed
at their head. So their heart is now captured. Who will save them at this point?
REPORTER: So the
game is over.
Checkmate?
BERGOGLIO: Friend, I’ve been studying America this month, before the Pope chose
to resign. You must not have fear at speaking the truth. It is for the salvation
of souls and the recovery of Thomas Jefferson’s people. America must not fall to
the new painted communism. Even the low information voters don’t want America to
be sold into slavery. I pray they cast out the money changers in their
government! What manner of government is there that condones sin? Abomination
upon abomination--giving monies for the murder of children, giving monies for
the murder of the elderly! You are an American. Your government, My child, has
been infiltrated by men of sin.
REPORTER: These are pretty radical ideas.
BERGOGLIO: No. Perhaps reactionary. Radical means something different. But a
very long time ago, Khrushchev warned, that we cannot expect Americans to fly
from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving
Americans small injections of socialism until they suddenly awake to find out
they have Communism. This is what is happening now in an ancient bastion of
freedom. How can America save Latin America when they are slaves to
the
government themselves?
REPORTER: I’m having a hard time digesting most of this.
BERGOGLIO: The truth can be painful. You look angry; do you want to stop or ask
a question? But you have created a new type of state, the so-called welfare
state. This has happened in order to respond to the needs
of the politically
created poor. However, intervening directly is depriving the original society of
its responsibility. Families escape responsibility in the welfare state. And
churches even escape responsibility. People stop giving to charity and see every
poor person as the government’s problem. I am a Catholic priest and there are no
poor for me to take care of, they are made permanently poor and the property of
the
politicians.
REPORTER: I’m not sure this interview is going to work.
BERGOGLIO: You asked and now you will listen, my son. The social assistance
state leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public
agencies, which are dominated more by bureaucratic thinking than by real concern
for helping people. Needs are best
understood and
satisfied by people who are
closest to them who act as neighbors and parish members to those in need. It
should be added that certain kinds of demands often call for a response which is
not simply material but which is capable of perceiving the deeper human need.
This is not to mention the welfare states excesses and abuses.
REPORTER: I think we are done.
BERGOGLIO: Wait. If I speak on the ordination of women, on celibacy, on divorce,
will you air this interview and my message?
REPORTER: No, we are done.
BERGOGLIO: Partially what irritates me to the core is the media’s inability to
look at anything without
looking into the cause of the
various problems. People
are made poor so they will vote for the very candidates that made them poor.
REPORTER: Have a nice day and thanks for your time.
CAMERA OFF / END TRANSCRIPT
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on May 07, 2013, 03:20 AM:
Matthews got owned.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 07, 2013, 04:24 AM:
Smells fishy, kind of doubt that is real. Reads too much like a sharp high school kids creative writing assignment.
- DAA
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on May 07, 2013, 04:47 AM:
As much as I wish it was real snopes says its false.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/matthews.asp
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 07, 2013, 08:40 AM:
It always amazes me. Who spends their time in such deceptions? Well, I don't know this Pope, but Mathews is such a turd, it seems believable.
Oh well, sorry. I keep falling for elaborate Internet lies.
Good Hunting. LB
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 07, 2013, 10:38 AM:
High School kids have time.
I don't know, or give a flying fuck about either the pope or the reporter.
It just read too phoney - this one was obvious.
But, before I even looked at it, knowing you had rec'd it in email, I knew it was going to be bullshit. Was just curious to see what particular kind of bullshit so I read the first few paragraphs.
It's a pretty good rule to just take it for granted that anything you get in email is bullshit. Almost all of it is, and the teeny tiny bit that isn't bullshit, that actually matters, you would have already heard about elsewhere.
Another good rule, delete every forwarded message you get without opening it. I haven't opened a forwared email in at least ten years. They'll either have bullshit in them, or worse. If it was actually important, you'll find out by other means. In over a decade of deleting every single forwarded email I rec'v I don't think I have ever "missed" anything, that anyone could possibly give a fuck about.
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 07, 2013, 12:46 PM:
And, I'm glad you told me that because, (now) I can copy and paste the next email containing important information, so you can't guess that it's been forwarded around the world and back. lol
Yeah, I know I'm gullible as a six year old. Motives, such as, blowing up total strangers for the sake of religion or politics. Such as developing a virus to infect the computers of total strangers. As far as I am concerned, these people have a mental illness.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on May 08, 2013, 06:44 PM:
So it was somebodies invention...and Snopes was good enough to point it out.
So now we have Snopes for truthfulness in stories that circulate in public..... but what about truthfulness in stories put forth by the media? We need a Snopes for media lies, misreporting, obfuscation, spin, etc. Of course we'll never get that...will we?
I still liked the story. I'd call it public propaganda on the same level the media puts forth its propaganda.
Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on May 08, 2013, 06:54 PM:
Here's a story about media propaganda. Is there a snopes which exposes the media propaganda for what it is?
http://townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/2013/05/08/beware-of-liberals-who-come-in-evangelicals-clothing-n1591342/page/full
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 08, 2013, 09:48 PM:
FRANK, SNOPES HAS ZERO CREDIBILITY WITH ME.
They may be right, but if it comes down to anything political, Snopes has a definite predictable attitude. They are fucking Liberals. And, my friends, you cannot trust a Liberal to tell the truth.
I was watching the Benghazi stuff today, the Republicans wanted to know who was responsible and the Democrats played politics. Even when Hannity interviewed Juan Williams, the guy was apparently blind to any coverups by the Administration, like YouTube videos and how it was impossible to send any help whatsoever....nothing but excuses, nine fucking hours and all they did was order people not to help. Disgusting.
I sure hope they hang all of it around Hillary's ears. That bitch needs a stake driven through her heart.
Good hunting. El Bee
[ May 08, 2013, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on May 09, 2013, 12:12 PM:
[ June 28, 2013, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]
Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on May 09, 2013, 01:30 PM:
[ June 28, 2013, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 09, 2013, 06:00 PM:
That pretty well covers the subject. I might forward that little nugget to the other members of my phone booth crew.
Good hunting. El Bee
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