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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 27, 2013, 05:00 PM:
 
Shit, I lost the link. LA Times...mentioned Mercer L and his traps that are decimating bobcats in Cali, resulting in a bill to ban bobcat hunting
Mark

[ February 27, 2013, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Lone Howl ]
 

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Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on February 27, 2013, 05:22 PM:
 
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-bobcats-20130211,0,1532424.story
 

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Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on February 27, 2013, 06:14 PM:
 
This is gonna ruffle some feather but I don't give a shit.

I remember when they banned Mnt Lion hunting in California.

Nothing could stop these environmentalists. TV commercials, biased opinions, no listening to reason..............ran right over the hunters like not so much as a speed bump. They had the full weight of the media behind them and there was no stopping em'. As I remember, the club spent all kinds of money fighting it.

Now, even owning parts of a Mtn Lion, even one taken legally out of state, is a crime with huge fines.

The article reminds me of one time I took a new club member out on a hunt. I wanted to give him a good experience so took him to many of my favorite spots. BIG MISTAKE!

For the next three or four years these spots were dead. I couldn't figure out why because they've always produced for as long as I can remember hunting them.

Found out later that the new club member I treated nice and whom I showed my favorites spots was a trapper. He had been trapping the areas I showed him all those years. I asked him to go trap his own areas.....he said "why", I can trap anywhere I want!

Yea, I guess he was in his right, but I didn't like it. How would you like to spend months worth of weekends hunts coming up empty? He could have at least told me he was trapping my areas so I could hunt someplace else. Of course he didn't. Turned me off to trappers forever.

I want animals to hunt, not to have some jerk make money while decimating my (our) hunting grounds. Fuck em'.

An now I might loose my bobcat hunting privileges because of some jerks trapping where they weren't supposed to? Figures, only takes one mothe fkr to ruin it for everybody else.

So that's where I just ruffled some feathers but I don't give a shit. I see trapping as a "commercial activity" not hunting. What really got me was the trappers would always come around asking for our help when they were facing some legislative threat yet when we needed help they were never around or "had no money".

Trappers and hunters are two different animals. One goes out to enjoy nature and hunting, the other goes out to make a buck. These are two, totally different interests. They're on their own as far as I'm concerned.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 27, 2013, 06:23 PM:
 
It's the same old, tried and true appeal to emotion, just like the lion "moratorium".

These are your typical liberal bleeding hearts, who demand that everybody do things THEIR WAY, OR THE HIGHWAY.

For the enforcement people to weigh in on the issue is completely out of line. They have laws and regulations to enforce, but none of us need or want their opinions about something that does not concern them.

First the crybabies get a ban on leghold traps because of "cruelty". Now they want more, they always want more.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 27, 2013, 06:31 PM:
 
F "How would you like to spend months worth of weekends hunts coming up empty?"

Welcome to my life.

I still liked it better than mowing the lawn.

Krusty
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on February 27, 2013, 06:34 PM:
 

quote:

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Trappers and hunters are two different animals.

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Frank....nothing could be further from the truth.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 27, 2013, 06:44 PM:
 
In some cases, the motivation is different. Especially concerning what Frank is talking about, which is contests.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on February 27, 2013, 06:59 PM:
 
Frank, how much trapping have you done? There really is very little fact in your statement to back up your suppositions. The concept of what maintains a population of a renewable resource is not based on stockpiling. If removing animals from your hunting areas during prime fur season depleted your numbers, you had bigger problems than a trapping competitor.
As far as your trappers and hunters not needing each other, look into what the elk hunters, mule deer hunters and antelope hunters are campaigning for in areas that have out lawed trapping. You guessed it, legalizing trapping. Predator numbers have increased to a point in these areas that they are putting huge pressure on these game species and effecting numbers. Predator callers alone won't get the job done.
As far as throwing another group of 'sportsman' under the bus because you don't peruse that particular avenue is kinda chicken shit. I don't hunt deer, I don't shoot an AR and I don't run grey hounds on coyotes; but I sure as hell don't believe they should be outlawed by some disneyesque animal rights activists playing on emotion and not fact.

Feathers ruffled....maintain
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on February 27, 2013, 07:03 PM:
 
Lb, isn't competing in a hunt for a financial prize the same as an economic enterprise?
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on February 27, 2013, 07:05 PM:
 
Aren't contests about winning money? ...Just sayin'

I honestly miss trapping, for the fun, the challenge, and the SUCCESS of it, more than I miss hunting of any kind.

Running the trapline (*non NWC trapping) was never about the money, for me.

Divide, and BE conquered.

Krusty
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 27, 2013, 07:35 PM:
 
HOLY shit. I was reading the comments that accompanied the story...
They view the bobcats as pets, don't ya see? They love those cats and give them names. Stop the madness!
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 27, 2013, 07:41 PM:
 
Yeah the comments are priceless. These people are fucking idiots.
Mark
 

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Posted by Chris S (Member # 3888) on February 27, 2013, 07:53 PM:
 
Mark, they're bound to outlaw the Chevy Silverado. Better watch what you post. They're watching. Lol.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 27, 2013, 08:51 PM:
 

quote:

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Lb, isn't competing in a hunt for a financial prize the same as an economic enterprise?

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Geordie, I don't want to support Frank and his opinion. What I "assumed" he meant is: a commercial rather than a sporting event. A trapper traps for money. We hunt for sport.

No, our hunts do not involve money. Since the 70's, no financial awards, merchandise, stuff like that. We decided 40 years ago that money corrupts, just like bass tournaments, in the past. We bust our friggin'ass for a belt buckle or a engraved knife or a cup or bowl.

But, you would think a lot of money is at stake, judging by the effort expended.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 27, 2013, 09:32 PM:
 
Leonard around here contests are for money.

Franks problem is he trusted someone to do what he thought they should do. His problem ain't with trapping its that he showed his hand and got beat.

One reason I mostly hunt alone.... But I do like a check every now and then too.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 27, 2013, 10:17 PM:
 
Frank;
YOU took somebody you didn't know well to your honey holes and they did you wrong so now you paint ALL trappers with the same dirt-bag brush????

Wrong.........Wrong.........and.......Wrong.

Might I suggest that you attend one of the trapping conventions there in Calif. and talk to the trappers. Or, come over here to our Az. convention this summer and I'll buy you a root-beer. You might find out that not all trappers are evil creatures. Not sayn' that all trappers are pure as the wind driven snow but over-all they're a pretty decent bunch.

And yeah;
I do remember the Calif. Mt. Lion ban. As a matter of fact, I read the entire initiative and there's things in it that you wouldn't believe.
Then, it was placed on the ballot under the header; "To Benefit Wildlife". Needless to say, we lost.

Frank, trust me on this one; the tree huggers have beaten trappers to their knees and still want more. When they finally do ban trapping they won't stop. They will come after calling contests. They will come after night hunting. They will come after us anywhere they can divide and conquer us.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 28, 2013, 08:29 AM:
 
This is truth. Cosmic truth. When you take anybody to a spot, it ain't yours anymore. I doubt there is a predator hunter that has not found this out?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 28, 2013, 08:47 AM:
 
Several years ago, I got laid off from work one fall and spent three months scouting and bow hunting for whitetails. Come firearms deer season, I had lots of good spots. Of course several of my friends didn't have a spot to go, so I told them where to go. Well I lost all or some of those spots, as they became "their spots" to this day.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 28, 2013, 08:55 AM:
 
I enjoyed traping back in the late 70's and early 80's. Never was real good at it, but I always remember every morning was like Xmas morning.....could not wait to see what I caught.

Know some folks that kept trapping even though the $$ return was not there. It was for the love of it.

Trapper have and always will have my support.
Kelly
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 28, 2013, 08:56 AM:
 
lol Chris, for sure, might have to get a (gulp) Ford?
I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.
Mark
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 28, 2013, 09:40 AM:
 
FORD? Friends don't let friends buy Fords, do they?

I don't care what you drive as long as it's not a Ford. (just kidding)

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on March 01, 2013, 07:56 AM:
 
I sure know how to shit in my own nest, don’t I?
Well, for that I apologize to the group.

When I read that article in the Smell A Times about the idiot going in to Joshua Tree and trapping it reminded me of my own bad experience with a trapper…….got me pissed off all over again when I thought about it.

If you knew anything about Joshua Tree National Monument you’d know to stay the hell away from it. If you go in there and hunt or trap you’re gonna stir up a hornets nest and I guarantee the outcome ain’t gonna be pretty.

So now we see another proposal to ban bobcat hunting. Of course it ain’t the first. The anti’s here in California have been trying to do that for as long as I can remember and so far we’ve kept em’ at bay. But all it takes is one idiot like this to focus everyone’s attention on bobcats and next thing you know it’ll be illegal to hunt em’ even though hunters had nothing to do with it.

The anti’s here are looking for any little excuse to push their agenda and this idiot trapping Joshua Tree is helping them. God all mighty, how stupid can ya get? And for what? Just to make a few bucks you’re gonna ruin it for everybody?

From a political perspective, the varmint hunters have always been allied with the trappers. But I’m beginning to think that’s a mistake. When you get idiots like this trapping Joshua Tree the dirt is gonna rub off on varmint hunters and because we’re “together” we’re gonna suffer the same fate. The anti’s WILL put us in the same boat, don’t ya see?

The way I see it varmint hunters have to start lookin’ out for their own instead of letting themselves be dragged down by an association that turns out to pretty much one sided anyways. I’m not gonna fight em’ but as far as I’m concerned trappers are on their own.

[ March 01, 2013, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: Frank ]
 

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Posted by trapper2 (Member # 3651) on March 01, 2013, 03:49 PM:
 
well just remember when they get done taking all the trapping rights that you dont want to help keep there will be alot more time on their table to work on taking away the calling rights, and when they take your calling rights you will be in the same boat with the trappers, you sound alot like the tree huggers i have met, "take the other guys stuff so i can be happy", and people wonder why the world is going to hell in a hand basket, is turned into a ME world
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 01, 2013, 04:46 PM:
 
How does that go????

When they came for ......... I didn't speak up because I wasn't a .........

And when they came for the ....... I didn't speak up because I wasn't a .........

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me.

Lets all piss in each others boots and watch our rights wash away.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on March 01, 2013, 05:37 PM:
 
Frank, trappers are hunters.

If you want to lump all trappers in together then I ask, how many varmint hunters have you seen shoot from the road, pop a coyote on property without permission, go back and call your secret spot, cheat in a contest, heck we could pretty much say humanity is one sorry life form if you want to lump em all together.

Some do draw unneeded attention to the sport, weed em out.
 

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Posted by Frank (Member # 6) on March 03, 2013, 10:44 PM:
 
Tom

You said:

"When they came for ......... I didn't speak up because I wasn't a .........

And when they came for the ....... I didn't speak up because I wasn't a .........

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me."

Tom, truer words were never spoken! I couldn't agree with you any more!

Now, let me ask ya.......

Where was everybody when they took away my gun rights here in California?

Where was everybody when they outlawed Mountain lion hunting here in California?

Where was everybody when they closed down thousands of miles of offshore fishing on the pacific coast?

Where are the trappers, with their money, to help fight the proposed anti-bobcat hunting and trapping legislation?

Now I'm not trying to single you out. I'm only demonstrating how much support I've had over the last 25 years. It's not just you...it's everybody.

Ok, if this isn't enough to sway your actions, then let me propose this:

On June 15th 2013, a group of us, about 30 all told, are going to a shooting range at 33951 San Francisquito Canyon Rd, Saugus, Ca. 91350

All are California citizens who are going with unregistered "so called assault weapons". These are but a fraction of the guns which were not registered upon demand by California government....... and there are tens of thousands more of these through the state.

These are people which have refused to register their guns under Diane Finesquat's assault weapons ban here in California. Every one of them is now considered a felon. I think Diane Finesquat is a felon.

This particular gun range was chosen because it is well known for frequent visits by the US Forest Service, and other State agencies, who take it upon themselves to inspect all shooters to ensure they do not have "unregistered guns" per Diane's Finesquat's un-American anti-gun law.

These 30 people (who shall remain un-named) have decided to make a stand. The hope is some California state officer will confront one of the 30.

When an arrest is imminent, the other 29 will also impose their will at the point of a gun.....just like the state official is trying to impose his will. There will be no arrest and no illegal seizure of anyone's guns without somebody backing down or getting killed.

The hope is that this will make national news.

Tom, I guarantee there isn't one single pansy ass mother fukr on this board who will be there.....trappers included.

Now tell me again about:

When they came for ......... I didn't speak up because I wasn't a .........

And when they came for the ....... I didn't speak up because I wasn't a .........

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me.

I'm making the point that when it comes time to put up or shut up most people will shut up despite your words of wisdom...which I agree with wholeheartedly!

[ March 03, 2013, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Frank ]
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on March 04, 2013, 07:21 AM:
 
"Tom, I guarantee there isn't one single pansy ass mother fukr on this board who will be there.....trappers included."

Wow,maybe you should take something to help you calm down a bit Frank.I do think you're right though cause I doubt there are any of 'those' on this board.
As to your plan,I wish you guys luck but certainly you really don't expect all of us to travel thousands of miles to some gravel pit in the middle of nowhere to take a 'stand' on an apparent law that hasn't even been challenged yet.Or even scarier,maybe you do.
I keep praying for that San Andreas Fault 'thing' to happen and that your whole F ing State will float away anyway.I'll pray harder now.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 04, 2013, 08:17 AM:
 
Actually, it was me that posted that, not Tom.

And as far as your planned civil disobidence stunt;
(1) I don't see it ending well.
and
(2) It's going to make us all look bad.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on March 04, 2013, 08:20 AM:
 
If you want to single me out then I'd rather you do it face to face.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 04, 2013, 10:01 AM:
 
Usually, attempting to prove a point in the manor Frank describes is lost on the Media reporting the event. When they read an explanation, they use words like "rambling" which is guaranteed to paint the writer as a whack job. In the case of a demonstration involving guns, the finer points will be totally lost on whoever is reporting, and that will forever more be the facts of the matter.

In a way, it's like Frank said about the media. You can't beat anybody that buys ink by the barrel.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on March 04, 2013, 10:31 AM:
 

quote:

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without somebody backing down or getting killed

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