quote:

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In a police memorandum from 2010, a Highway Patrol sergeant who reviewed 20 of Ms. Steed’s marijuana-impairment cases found she was indeed arresting drivers who had no drugs in their system

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The piece of garbage is out of law enforcement, as she should be. Her supervisors assisted in ending her law enforcement career.

Yeah I know. In your demented mind all cops are bad because of one, or a few bad apples.

Nice.
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on January 05, 2013, 05:46 AM:
 
4949,
I agree,ever since I joined here I've been surprised at the cop bashing.I agree a few bad apples,quite a few power trippers and so on in law enforcement,but overall I think they are great and really are that 'thin blue line' that protects and cleans up messes the public either doesn't want to deal with or is afraid to.As to bad apples,power trippers etc,no group is short of those including predator hunters and forums IMO.
Good hunting.

PS I never was a cop,never had nor have any close friends or relys that are,and frankly spent most of my working years on the 'other side' of them but still just sayin......
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 05, 2013, 08:35 AM:
 
Thanks DiYi, I appreciate the kinds words. You know, I don't come here looking for kudos. And I understand that law enforcement is far from perfect. But sometimes I just don't get some guys, especially when I think of all the great guys and gals I work with.

Yes, there have been a few bad ones where I work too, but we have weeded them out. And there will be more bad ones in the future, and we will weed those out as well.

Okay, thanks for letting me vent.
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on January 05, 2013, 09:03 AM:
 
49....I have a serious question.

When a person gets stopped while driving, why does the officer always ask "where are you going" and "where have you been"?

I do not see the reasoning behind this and how it is pertinent to the present situation.

Will I be in trouble if I refuse to answer or simply use my finger to point in the general direction?

Thanks
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 05, 2013, 09:18 AM:
 
Okay, point well taken. If we are perceived as cop bashers, I think I will work on some kind of corrective action. I don't go out of my way, interacting with law enforcement, but on those occasions when it has been forced on me, it's usually negative. I can think of twice when it wasn't, and I have never been arrested, perhaps because I never do anything wrong? 49 is a sweetheart, sort of a mascot, and he is one of only three people to ever get a personal invitation to join HM. From me. And, it wasn't because, or so I could bash him.

But, a bad cop is the worst of the worst, in my book. Like that arrogant asshole that keeps murdering wives.

Anyway, the subject is this chick that has caused uncountable grief for innocent motorists. She deserves more than just losing her job.

Good hunting. Lima Brav 0

The other two? Locohead and Krusty
 

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Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on January 05, 2013, 09:26 AM:
 
Here is Az we have probably the toughest DUI laws in the country. If an Officer testifies that he believes your were impaired at all and you have .04, half the legal limit of .08, they can still make you spend a night in jail, put an interlock system on your vehicle for a year and a $1,000 fine for a first offense. And the above are the minimum. It is really set up to make the state a bunch of money IMHO. BTW: if you have a commercial drivers license .04 is the limit.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on January 05, 2013, 10:28 AM:
 
Bashing "BAD" cops and people who conspire to protect them is similar to bashing bad politicians, I suppose. Both are gov't workers. It just seems that the worst punishment is they sometimes lose their jobs "if" the crime gets enough attention. I wonder how long this went on and innocent people were screwed before someone finally said enough. How many would have been OK? Turd just gets an ass chewing, but no job loss or real punishment?

If I get a DWI, I can lose my job, unless I can get someone to drive me everywhere, then there is the gov't background checks, and security checks. Arrest as simple as a traffic ticket can get you denied on certain jobs. Not to mention a bust for pot or alcohol and you are permanently labeled as having a substance abuse problem. I work in federal bldgs, schools, and other places like airports where I need a background check, just to work there.

I do feel sorry for those true blue honest good guys, who have to wear the blemish for these Turds.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 05, 2013, 10:28 AM:
 
Utah, the Beehive state. The Beehive patch on her shoulder, and on the road signs crack me up.

Sure is good looking country, but a wierd place, no offence intended towards the Utah guys here.

Oh' yeah on topic. I can't help but to wonder if bountys/bonuses are paid for those with the most DUI arrests ? I assume so..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 05, 2013, 11:29 AM:
 
I drove around Utah for quite a while, puzzled by what the hell were those funny yellow domes on road signs? And, me being completely uninformed about Utah as the beehive state? Nobody has ever made clear, to me, why Utah is nicknamed the Beehive State? Then again, I have seen, even old, abandoned beehives, and they are invariably white rectangular boxes. Apparently, everywhere but Utah? I think they started retrofitting their road signs with "THE BEEHIVE STATE", because they had too many inquiries about the weird yellow UFO.

Ah yes, backing away from our normal cop bashing with some good, oldfashioned Utah bashing. Yee haw! Carry on.

Good hunting. El Bea
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on January 05, 2013, 11:42 AM:
 
Locally here, we have our share of legit cops and troopers. A bad judgement call doesn't make the cop a prick or a cunt for life. Things like over 400 dui's in a 12 month period by one trooper/cop does, and is pure bullshit (Utah Trooper in video). There is a problem in the chain of command there simple, Or Utah is the drunkest, dope smoking place on earth.
My gripe was, is, and will be, using police as a source for revenue gathering in a township, county/parish, or state level.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 05, 2013, 12:17 PM:
 
I haven't been down there for years. Since 1999 ? My 1st trip was in the 80's if memory serves correct the signs were white, with a black outline of the " Beehive"...

Always wondered, what is the "Beehive" all about ? Still have no clue ?

In those days beer coolers were locked on Sundays, and you had to have a membership card to get into a bar. Might still be that way ?

Most of my time spent there was for work training, and didn't have to worry about that stuff too much.

On a side note though about Utah, thats where, I shopped my 1st, Walmart..Layton, I think ?

I hate, Walmart now, was interesting @ the time..

[ January 05, 2013, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 05, 2013, 12:41 PM:
 
Leonard, thanks for the plug. Nobody here likes bad cops, including me. I especially don't like them, because they give us good cops a bad name.

quote:

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49....I have a serious question.

When a person gets stopped while driving, why does the officer always ask "where are you going" and "where have you been"?

I do not see the reasoning behind this and how it is pertinent to the present situation.

Will I be in trouble if I refuse to answer or simply use my finger to point in the general direction?

---

quote:

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If you have nothing to hide I don't see the problem?

---

I love that phrase.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 05, 2013, 01:42 PM:
 
After reading the article, I was very happy to learn that this POS was outed by her own. That's the way it should be!!!
I friggin' LOVE seeing that the "good cops" crossed the thin blue line and sent this one packing. If that were more common, I thin the overall relationship between police officers and us civie 'turds' would be much more amicable...

Quick story, related to professional Police conduct. Last year, me & KJ misjudged the long drive back from the Mr. Coyote Contest in SD. I was behind the wheel and trying to make up enough time to catch my flight home out of KC, MO. and was subsequently pulled over by a Nebraska State Trooper out on the middle of no-friggin-where, sand-dune Nebraska...

Trooper had me dead to rights, so I pulled KJ's truck right over, rolled the window down & KJ unloaded his pistola and put it in plain view on the center console.

Officer looked at the piece and asked if any other firearms were inside the vehicle, other than the pistola laying unloaded on the console.
Nope, they were cased up in the bed of the pickup.

Officer then asked the basic "to/from" questions and I explained the truth. We were on a long drive from SD down to KC, MO returning from a shooting contest and misjudged the time to catch my flight outta KC, MO.

Officer went back to the cruiser, wrote my well deserved ticket and returned, offering a reminder to drive safely & within the speed limit of Nebraska.

Man, I was really impressed with the professionalism and situational handling of that officer! I was in the wrong, took my ticket and thanked him for his courtesy.

Then, proceeded to miss my flight anyway, LOL!

Just wanted to share that story, as I've got got all the respect in the world for officers who handle themselves professionally!
But that sorry POS Utah trooper story really stuck a bone in my craw. And I WAS glad to see she got her walking papers for such disgraceful misconduct and abuse of power. IMHO, she should be held personally liable for civil recourse from those who she wronged...

And would sure love to see MORE of the "good cops" weeding out there own, as in the case of this POS Utah chick.

BRAVO!!!
 

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Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on January 05, 2013, 03:10 PM:
 
You would be hard pressed to find a locked beer cooler on Sunday around here anymore. You can get a mixed drink in most "beer bars" now. You can't smoke while drinking it though. Big controversy this summer was whether a community would allow businesses to be open on Sunday. LOL
I'm sure it was a test question back in 7th grade but I would have to google the beehive thing.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 05, 2013, 04:13 PM:
 
Fred, if you were a local, that professionalism might have included a warning, rather than a citation.

That's why I drive the speed limit on I-10 through downtown Phoenix, with my CA plates. The locals are all going 10MPH faster, but, it's s revenue thing and out-of-staters never fight tickets.

My ass still burns over that $180 I paid for the camera fine, and afterwards, ol' Paul told me the locals ignore it, something about being served in person? Whatever, it's a bum rap.

And, they pulled all the cameras out of this town a couple years ago. People hated them. And, you know. Public Relations. Can't have all the citizens flipping off the boys in blue now, can we?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 05, 2013, 04:25 PM:
 

quote:

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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you have nothing to hide I don't see the problem?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I love that phrase

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Yes Dan, but you quoted me out of context.
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on January 05, 2013, 05:31 PM:
 
The beehive stands for 'industrious'. Saw that on 'how the states got their shapes'. I knew that little nugget of knowledge would come in handy some day. Also learned Utah was once much larger, and called Desseret. This was interesting to me because that was the name of the Mormon owned ranches in Florida.

Maintain
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on January 05, 2013, 07:00 PM:
 
Actually deseret is from the book of mormon and means honeybee, utah was to be called the Deseret Territory until things changed and they Applied for statehood instead. The behive is a mormon thing as well as the state symbol.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 05, 2013, 07:23 PM:
 
Pretty smart, for a person mistaken for Brigham Young his self, not too long ago. I was told you were not going to shave until Dickweed was out of office? What happened?

Good hunting. Lima Bravo
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on January 05, 2013, 07:44 PM:
 
I ceceeded from the union! actually it got down to the middle of my chest and the duck commanders were after me.
In reality
Had to interview for a serious corporate job sure glad I didnt get it! Im the best boss I have ever had.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 06, 2013, 07:16 AM:
 
Getting back to AR Shaw's question....years ago when I was a much younger buck and was still humping the road, I responded to a domestic dispute when I worked one of the rural areas. The husband answered the door, and we explained why we were there. The guy said that he and his wife had had an argument, but everything was okay now. I said "Yeah sure, but we need to talk to your wife." The guy then tells us that we can't come into his house. The younger guys behind me are now chomping at the bit to mow this guy over and go in to see the wife. Me, being older, and maybe wiser (or more senile) says, "I need to see your wife now, or we are coming in." The guy looks at me, and you can see the wheels turning. After he ponders it for a few moments, he calls his wife to the door. We were able to talk to her and observe her for any possible wounds, bruising or trauma, which there was none. We then took the information we needed for our reports and left.

The younger guys were a little mad at me for not pushing my way into the house. They thought the guy was trying to hide something in there. I said they had to learn the difference from a guy who is just being stubborn from a guy who is trying to hide something. These are things you learn from time and experience. The "sixth sense," if you will.

But if you think about it, if these guys had responded without me, they no doubt would have pushed through the guy, a fight would have been started, and a can of worms would have been opened that didn't need to happen.

Young law enforcement + lack of cooperation sometimes equals bad things happening.

Funny thing (or not), the cops in the town next to me were just sued for this very same type of thing. Some times old age, wisdom (or in my case senility) prevails.

And AR Shaw, this is by no means intended to be a slight to you, so please don't take it that way. You asked a very legitimate question, and you are 100% correct in that you don't have to answer these questions. I just wanted to provide an example for the guys here that sometimes cooperation doesn't hurt, and in fact can help the situation.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 06, 2013, 08:32 AM:
 
Absolutely, and it happened to me, twice. (just kidding)

No really, good story, 49. I can just see myself in that doorway, pondering the situation. (just kidding)

On the other hand, sometimes eager beaver deputy doesn't have another card to play before escalating to Plan B.

Which is why they love the job. Sometimes, cooperation saves the day. And, sometimes you feel like telling them to "get off my lawn". I don't know how I would react if some dickhead wanted to cuff me and stuff me....."I pay your salary, etc." Ah shit, probably meek as a lamb after the big talk and scared to death of the graybar hotel. "You bastards will never take me alive."

There's two kinds of cops, (learned this in the movies) good cop, bad cop. And, sometimes they switch roles, just for laughs. (I'm kidding) One thing is true, they will lie, you can almost guarantee it. Almost as bad as; "I won't come in your mouth" although that's completely hear say.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ January 06, 2013, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on January 06, 2013, 11:33 AM:
 
This is for Shaws consumption, for I run into this all the time, living in Arizona and traveling from west to southeast a lot.On my drive back to Florida couple weeks ago, I encountered two times where I was stopped by Border Patrol, both in Texas.
Like Shaw, I absolutely detest those two stupid questions, "where you going" and "where you coming from". This trip, first guy pulled out in unmarked truck on Hwy 9, just out of Tres Hermanas area...followed me for a spell, then went to pass and as he got even with me, I let off the gas so he would slip past a bit quicker. He didn't like that move so he swung in behind me, then promptly hit the lights.
He was a little man, mexican guy, and had that attitude that comes with it. He sarcastically made mention that I used a "pretty slick trick", using some kind of damned solution to cover my plate numbers from cameras?. he said "it's a trick all the narcos use".
I told him no trick, they are just old and sun bleached. he asked if I had anything Illegal in the truck,and I said I don't think so. he then asked where are you going. With out any sarcastic tone I matter of factly told him, "anywhere I want". He stared at me a bit,letting his mag light linger in my face, then waved me on down the road.
Next guy was at the checkpoint outside of Sierra Blancas, young kid manning the post, and of course asked where I was going, I told him " thats really none of your business".
Again I will mention, becasue it's hard to parse context and inflection of voice thru just the written word on these threads, I use a very calm, matter of fact tone to answer, no cocky or sarcastic voice at all.
So far, none have maced me or tazed me for my answers. I get the tilted head puzzled look, but what the hell else they going to do?
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on January 06, 2013, 12:14 PM:
 
In the movies you hear. "You have the right to remain silent, anything you say, can and will be used against you, etc...".

Now why on earth would I want to give ammo to someone who may try to use it against me?

Now I forget the numbers but it seems that over 50-75% of crimes couldn't be solved if people didn't confess or shot off their mouths. Maybe 4949 will give us the real numbers.

Above 4949 explained how using his head and experience in the situation, he saved a lot of grief and lawyer fees, not to mention further repercussions down the road for the guy in his own home, who did nothing illegal. The younger guys may have escalated the situation, and the homeowner would have got hurt, arrested, and a criminal record, plus bills out the ass.

Some police can and do lie. The laws says even if he says he has witness's saying you beat up, Steven Segal, Chuck Norris, and that Brock UFC guy, if your innocent, you know you didn't do it.

It makes me laugh when I see people trying to be a smartass, and outsmart a LEO who has been trained to extract info from you, to build a case, and Cover his Ass if he makes an arrest.

But then on the other hand, "If you have nothing to hide" ..... <LAFFIN> but, not trying to quote anyone out of text.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 06, 2013, 12:33 PM:
 

quote:

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But then on the other hand, "If you have nothing to hide" ..... <LAFFIN> but, not trying to quote anyone out of text.

---

Lol..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 06, 2013, 01:16 PM:
 
Vic, Thanks for a trip down memory lane via Tres Hermanas and Sierra Blanca. Years ago, I used to kill a lot of coyotes just hunting from the road on 1111. The biggest bobcat I ever killed was very close to Tres Hermanas, seems like there is/was an old abandoned railroad station close by?

Anyway, to the point. I feel exactly the same way about those stops and I don't let them look in the back, UNLESS I'm in a hurry, because they dick around until you give in and open up. But that's why I keep the back locked so they can't open it themselves. Also, going north towards Caralsbad, NM out of El Paso, way north of the border they have a checkpoint, and that's the question of the day: where are you going and where have you been. Now, I answer that one mater-of-factly, usually. But I don't like to let them look without a warrant. Again, I never have anything to hide; it's the principle, and it has something to do with freedom.

I wonder why they ask those questions? How can it be beneficial to know that I'm from California and I'm going to Texas?

I probably said before, when we were pulled over by tribal police and they separated us. In answer to where are you going, Pat said Gila bend. When the other guy asked me, I said home. (California) Those guys acted like they just got the goods on us because our answers didn't agree. And, they probably weren't smart enough to realize that you have to go through Gila Bend to get to California. Pointless questions. Where am I wrong, 49?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on January 06, 2013, 01:52 PM:
 
I hear you on the 'freedom' thing Leonard but I view it as a balancing thing. I want them to stop illegals,dopers,etc(a tough task), so if asking a few Q,s is the price, I'll bend a little.
One can tell a lot with just how a person answers a question. I get that and will go along a ways. My 2cents.
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on January 06, 2013, 01:57 PM:
 
Back a few years ago, before TSA ruined air travel but after 911, i was on a flight to Oregon. I was wearing a new pair of hunting boots and maybe looked out of place compared to the other passengers. After the plane took off a guy moved to a vacant seat next to me and struck up a conversation. Asking me why i was flying today etc. Finally he asked me where i was from, i thought for a second and said Okla. He then asked me "what do people in Okla do?" I said in reply "hunt and f##k". Oh really, what do you hunt? (he asked) "Usually something to f##k". He didn't say another word for the rest of the flight. Was he an air marshal or a fag? Maybe both.....
I had checked in 3 guns for my hunt and had insured them for 10k w/ the airline.
Maybe i set off the "looks suspicious" alarm?
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on January 06, 2013, 01:57 PM:
 
Are they allowed to arrest illegals anymore? I thought Obama nixed all that.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 06, 2013, 02:28 PM:
 
Prune Picker that was too funny! Now that the Colts/Ravens game is over I might relate another story, if I remember.

Wait...Mrs. 49 is home with the food. I will came back later and answer Leonard's question. DiYi has it right, but I will elaborate.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 06, 2013, 02:41 PM:
 
I don't know if Border Patrol still arrests anybody or not but the area that I've been calling is littered with abandoned day packs and I usually get checked out a couple of times a day. They're starting to recognize my truck and most conservations usually include the phrase "Have you observed any groups of people........." So far, no hit - no foul. They seem like pretty decent guys.

When I say 'littered with abandoned day packs' I don't mean a few here & there. I'm talking hundreds of the things. Piles of 10 - 20 or 30 of them tossed in the brush damn near everywhere there's brush.

Working for Border Patrol must be a lot like the phrase 'Herding Cats' come horribly to life.
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on January 06, 2013, 02:48 PM:
 
Maybe Im wrong, but I always assumed the reason for the pointless questions of where you going, where you from etc, was just an act of buying time. Allowing them a few added minutes to observe the vehicle, its contents, you, your eye contact, speech pattern, anything that might warrant them to get twitchy and do the cop stuff they love to do?
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 06, 2013, 03:04 PM:
 
That's part of it, AZ-Hunter. LE is always sizing up people we deal with. It becomes a matter of safety, more than anything else. Does this guy look like he might try something? How does he react to the questions? Etc..

Getting back to Leonard's case with the tribal police. They were looking for conflicting statements, trying to catch them in a lie. Two guys traveling across state lines, they just might be transporting drugs, etc., especially in that area, which is a corridor. The conflcting statements will give the police the idea of whether or not to pursue more investigative measures for the stop. Since your stories eventually checked out, they probably didn't bother with you anymore.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 06, 2013, 03:04 PM:
 

quote:

---

When a person gets stopped while driving, why does the officer always ask "where are you going" and "where have you been"?

I do not see the reasoning behind this and how it is pertinent to the present situation.

Will I be in trouble if I refuse to answer or simply use my finger to point in the general direction?

---

quote:

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He had to crack the window for the officer to slide the ticket through, and immediately said, "I think I smell booze", but that's as far as it went.

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quote:

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Relax 49, I read it and i know the truth about LE, I will never stop bashing bad cops, and there are more than a "few" bad ones. I have friends throughout law enforcement and can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that you have too much power and many of you have no idea how to handle it. Now of course YOU don't abuse your power, I hope, and there are many just like you, I hope. Sorry if you take it personal but I see no need for us to quietly accept abuse from bad LE officers, they should be judged with an iron fist in the public arena along with political figures who abuse there power.

Don't feel bad 49er, we all have bad apples in our occupations, it's just that bad cops tend to fuck up OTHER peoples lives.

---

Just so long as you don't generalize anymore JD, I think we will all be good.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 07, 2013, 04:41 PM:
 
BTW, the state trooper in RajnCajn's thread was fired after the incident on video, for unrelated reasons.

He kept his cool well, though, and I give him credit for it.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on January 11, 2013, 09:53 AM:
 
Here is another reason some LEO's don't like being filmed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0XNpEFLrjp0#!

[ January 11, 2013, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 11, 2013, 10:42 AM:
 
Yeah, and it just reminds me of my own prejudices, why I think some people should not be wearing a badge. And, that's exactly why some people want that badge. They enjoy the power. What good is power, unless you abuse it?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 12, 2013, 04:10 AM:
 
Okay, so for the second story in the video the off duty deputy was wrong.

For the main story in the video, there is more to the story than the media is relating.

Why would the daughter, who had just moved out of the house, need a police "standby" to go back and get her belongings? The only time we do this is when there are potential problems, usually between spouses or live in boyfriend/girlfriend disputes when one is moving out. Why would the daughter need a standby? I'll tell you why....because she knew her father was going to be a problem. Sure enough, he came home with an attitude. I know this by the tone of the police officer's responses.

That having been said, the police officer SHOULD have explained himself upon the arrival of the father. He probably didn't because the father was acting like a jackass. But, people still deserve an explanation when they come home and find you on their premises. This another one of those things that comes with experience, like I mentioned earlier. The police officer is held to a higher standard.

[ January 12, 2013, 04:42 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 12, 2013, 11:03 AM:
 
Thanks 49, that's as good of an explanation as we are ever going to get on that deal.

Yeah, I know the popo has a purpose and does the right thing, usually. They need to be striving toward 100% of the time.

Good hunting. Lima Brav 0
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 12, 2013, 11:19 AM:
 
49'r..Needs to move out west..

I've had very few "interactions" with LEO's, luckily (sp) ? When it did happen, it was a mixed bag. In a former job, I used to deal with them on a semi regular basis. Some were pretty cool guys, some were Dicks !

I guess the "badge" goes to more guys heads than others..And that's bullshit !

We also have to remember 49 is based on the east coast, and from where I sit, they are or can be wired differenty. Sorry, Nick no offence intended.

I like to read his perspective on things, and believe he is one of the good one's out there..

[ January 12, 2013, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 12, 2013, 11:25 AM:
 
You know why, don't you?

He has had interaction with our type of people and seems to understand our attitude. It's a familiarity thing. If all LE has to deal with is inner city bullshit and never meets real normal people, they start thinking the whole world is against them. Bunker mentality.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 12, 2013, 11:32 AM:
 
Yep, I totally agree..
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 12, 2013, 01:22 PM:
 
I'm not defending bad cops, but something that I don't understand is how do the good ones keep from becoming cynical when they deal with human scum day in & day out??????
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on January 12, 2013, 10:45 PM:
 
LB, you do make a valid point. If I had to deal with inner city bad guys all the time, I would most likely have a different attitude also.
 

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Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on January 12, 2013, 11:33 PM:
 
From what i've seen when they come home from Ninja refresher school i see a change that takes a couple of weeks to wear off. The profile everyone they see school usually takes the longest time for re-adjustment.I asked a long time friend once, where do you draw the line on the "us and them shit".
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 13, 2013, 04:55 AM:
 
I won't try an BS you guys either. The "us vs. them" mentality does exist. In response to Koko's question, dealing with a certain type of person (turd) on a frequent basis does make you cynical. Also, many times you deal with good people who are at their worst, going through a divorce, financial issues, or other personal problems. We don't usually deal with people who are at their best.

Case in point...a few years ago I got a call from a coworker. He asked me if I knew this guy, Joe, who was giving him a hard time during a domestic call. I told him, yeah I knew the guy, and he is a nice guy and a friend of mine. The bottom line is Joe was going through a stressful time (marital problems) and wasn't his usual nice guy self. We all have our moments, and the police usually deal with people when they are in these bad moments.

I have said this here before, but the "us vs. them" thing starts to wear off as the officer gets older, and gains experience and maturity. You start to realize some of the things I have tried to explain above. Your mileage may vary between individual officers as far as this goes too.

As Dave mentioned, I think it is true that eastern LEO's are wired slightly different than western LEO's. Though, when I interact with the western guys on the forums, we all seem to have the same basic mentality, shaped by the same experiences and dealing with the same types of people. It's just that the delivery might be a bit diferent. I have the utmost respect for the Alaska State Troopers, but when I watch their show on TV sometimes I say to myself, "Holy shit! That would NEVER have flown here." But I have to remember they are dealing with people in a different element. My backup might be ten miles away on a highway, which can be a long way when you need help. I've been there and done that, and can attest to the fact that it is a lonely feeling when you need help out there and there is none. I can only imagine being a trooper up in Alaska, where your backup is 200 miles away, and you might have to rely on the local populace for help if you need it.

Anyway, Leonard is correct, in that interacting here on this forum has opened my eyes a bit as to how others feel about law enforcement. Just as Dave mentioned that eastern LE is wired different than western LE, I think the western public is wired different than the eastern public I deal with. But people have the same issues, concerns, and fears about law enforcement over the entire country. I just think the western folk are more independent, and like to voice their collective opinion more than the eastern folk do. I appreciate the dialogue. Sometimes it has been rough here, but it has been a learning experience for me, and hopefully has been a learning experience for you guys as well.

[ January 13, 2013, 05:02 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on January 13, 2013, 09:16 AM:
 
Good points,

The web has opened doors for millions of people. I can only imagine the thoughts going thru an easterners head that has never been out west. The first time they go to a supermarket in AZ and see people open carrying and nobody gives a hoot, or a eastern cop seeing this for the first time for that matter.

The freedom and just the way people are treated, respect if you will, that is often given to people out west that isn't given to easterners.

I work in a lot of gov't bldgs, hospitals, and schools. I am working at a high school presently in a more rural area of the state. While there, I see all kinds of hunting and shooting pictures. There are deer head mounts, fish mounts and hunting reminders throughout this high school. Now when I work in the "city", there is nothing related to hunting or fishing. Perhaps PETA has a stronger hold, but I believe it's the larger populace mentality that "guns are bad" and anything to do with them is frowned upon.

IMO, kids that grow up in these areas will definitely have conflicting opinions on what should be allowed or is permitted in society.

Some people forget that the Bill of rights applies to all US citizens, in all US states. Though many cities and states take away your rights, for our own good of course.

Later on today, I think I'll walk outside with a gun and a big gulp soda, and nobody will care or get hurt. We can still do that here. Screw Bloomberg ans Cuomo.

[ January 13, 2013, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2013, 09:27 AM:
 
I am sorry this HM experience is stressful for you, 49. My personal opinion runs more like cops are a necessary evil and I am my own first line of defense against those that would do me harm.

I suppose "more independent" describes the situation as well as anything. Where does the west begin? I don't want to offend, but I think eastern cops dress funny, different colored pocket flaps and epaulets, stuff like that. Their uniforms seem like a time warp, circa 1934. I think L.A. County Sherifs have a pretty sharp uniform, in comparison.

I like del Gue's attitude. He's intending to retire to Montana and I think that represents a different world, aside from the fact that I have never been there. But, I have been to Florida. I can't imagine Vic Carlson moving from a whole life in southern Arizona, to Florida? That takes some adjustment, I would think?

Where does retirement beckon, for 49? Let me guess. Maui?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on January 13, 2013, 09:36 AM:
 
Speaking of attire...
It seams that most police officers these days are going for the "swat" "tactical" look. BDU's, black boots, etc...
I think I like the "Buford T Justice" look better.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on January 13, 2013, 09:51 AM:
 
I'm not a big fan of all this militarization of the PD's. All the tactical garb. I have this picture in my head of Star Wars and the storm troopers.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2013, 10:05 AM:
 
I'm starting to phase out cargo shorts.

Good hunting. Lima Brav 0
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on January 13, 2013, 10:40 AM:
 
Speaking of uniforms, we got a new chief here recently and one of his first moves was to put the ki-bosh on all the newer uniform types. All Phx officers have gone back to the navy blue that was the old standard. No more shorts and t-shirts that say "Police" across them. Needless to say, the officers are not happy with him, but I kinda like the idea.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 13, 2013, 11:00 AM:
 
Funny, we are just having this uniform discussion over on GT, the coptalk forum. I am old school, even as far as uniforms go. Some of the newer guys like the BDU's and tactical gear. I like the old long sleeve wool blend shirts with tie, and leather gear worn over the jacket/coat for winter.

Leonard, I didn't mean anything derogatory about this forum. Quite the contrary, I think your forum has enlightened me in many ways, and has helped me to become a more mature individual, especially as far as police work goes. I don't mind the occasional battles here. We aren't going to see eye to eye on everything (remember the helmet cams), but I do think we have come to an understanding here, for the most part.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2013, 11:05 AM:
 
I never thought anything of the kind! Not derogatory, no worries.

Good hunting. LB

So, it's Maui, is it?
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 13, 2013, 11:20 AM:
 
Why not?

I'm looking at Arizona, but if we get some grandkids out this way we might have to put the kabosh on it. In the case I will hope for the possibility of a second home out there.

I will be heading out to New Mexico Tech in April for a bomb detection course, so I will check out the area while I'm in town. NM is always a possibility.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 13, 2013, 11:39 AM:
 
I've never been to New Mexico. Might be wrong, I'm thinkin' it wouldn't be as hot as Arizona.

Yet not cold like the northern western states ? 7 above here right now. But no wind, whew !
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 13, 2013, 02:17 PM:
 
It was thir-teen friggin' de-grees last night here in SOUTHERN Arizona. That might not be cold to some of you guys but I've got tan lines on my feet from the sandals I wore all summer. I'm frail & I ain't used to this.
 

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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 13, 2013, 02:20 PM:
 
Dave, Mrs. 49 and I are getting tired of the cold. I'm gonna see how New Mexico is in April!

Koko, 13 degrees in southern Arizona?? Must be Global Cooling.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2013, 03:20 PM:
 
30˚ here, this morning when i got up, about 7:15. Cold enough, I have shrubs that get damaged at that temp.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: hell, it's still cold, only about 60˚

[ January 13, 2013, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 13, 2013, 03:55 PM:
 
I can't believe, I'm gonna' say this. As I'm aging the cold bothers me more than it used to.

I feel it in my right hand in particular, it's been cold here over two weeks and the ten day forecast, doesn't offer much relief. Looks like next Monday, I think, we'll get above freezing if the forecast holds true that is.

Were not near as cold as the upper plains states and such, so really not complaining, just sayin'

Although, I really love the Northwest, and have a hard time imagining being somewhere other than Idaho or my favorite state, Oregon.

Koko, damn thats cold for down there bro'..
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 13, 2013, 05:31 PM:
 
They're predicting a low of 15* tonight. From summer temps pushing 110* to winter lows trying to bottom out at about 10* we have almost a 100* temp swing down here.
Wood stove........do your thing!!!!!

Hey Dave;
You ever get into O'Neil Basin down in Nev?? It's back in behind Jarbidge. Pretty country. Used to be loaded with decent Mule Deer and trout.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2013, 06:05 PM:
 
And a few coyotes. So I've heard?

Good hunting. Lima Brav 0
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 13, 2013, 07:07 PM:
 
Koko, nope..Jarbidge has been on my radar for quite some time though..

My guess is it's going to look like the trout creek mountains ? Sometimes for work, I need to travel to Glenns Ferry Idaho, I look to the south towards Nevada and see some pretty big mountains. Which would be in the Jarbidge area ?

It's a chapter of the book of exploring the ION country, I haven't opened yet, but look forward to doing so.

(Edit) speaking of cold temp's can you imagine what it's like there right now.

[ January 13, 2013, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 14, 2013, 08:10 AM:
 
-4 degrees here right now. What really gets me thinking though is what if we didn't have Global Warming how much colder would it be right now. lol

Good Hunting Chad

[ January 14, 2013, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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