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Posted by CatTracker (Member # 3526) on November 07, 2012, 10:25 PM:
As a life long Republican it's very clear to me that the party needs to go through a reformation. The electorate has changed and we can wish for the good old days or we can adapt to the new reality. I'm not advocating to give up on our moral convictions but the party has been hijacked by the religious right.
Take a look at the statistics of who helped win the election: 18-45 year olds, women and minorities (70% of Hispanics, 90% of blacks). We need to figure out how to convert some of this group or we'll go the way of the dodo. To start with, get abortion and gay marriage off the platform. You don't have to personally approve of either one but get the f@cking government out of the bedroom. I hate to say it but being militant about deporting illegals isn't helping either. A lot of Hispanic people are conservative by nature but don't like the idea of mass deportation of their brethren. I'm not saying to give them amnesty but maybe a work visa or something, pay a fine and move to the back of the line.
This election was ripe for the taking... Romney got 2.5 million less votes than McCain (hard to believe I know) but Barry Soetoro (Obama) got 10 million less than 2008. We only need about 5-10% more of the electorate. I don't want to go the rest of my life without a conservative in the white house. What say you?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 08, 2012, 12:03 AM:
Well, part of the problem is that the Democrats keep hanging those issues on moral people. It's the political equivalent of "when did you stop beating your wife".
I personally think gay marriage is a friggin' joke. If I were running for office and was asked a loaded question, I'm supposed to bite my tongue and say the government should stay out of the bedroom? But, who is making it an issue? It's a phony illegitimate social issue that doesn't have a damned thing to do with National politics. It should be addressed, if anywhere, at the state level. So, how do we keep getting sucked into these social questions when we should be talking about a failed economy and failed foreign policies....and a focus on a healthcare law that is vastly unpopular and steals from Medicare to fund it. Like Krauthammer says, Obama was playing small ball and the bloodsucker class ate it up.
Abortion. Why do they get away with framing the issue as they do. As far as I am concerned, the issue is a moral and ethical question. I do not think providers should be forced, against their will to provide pills and services under penalty of law. It's a question of faith for a large part of the population. And, this "Partial Birth" procedure is an abomination. As I understand it, Obama voted in favor of placing a live fetus in a closet, the result of a failed abortion, to let it die. This is something most people wouldn't do to a dog.
They always, always hang the issue on "rape and incest" you cannot draw the line anywhere and boy oh boy, when there is not a line drawn in the sand, there are people that have no ethics whatsoever...and the rest of us are supposed to shut up in the name of freedom for a woman to control her own body. I don't care how obscene the practice of sucking the brains from a living fetus, they frame it as reproductive rights and freedom.
Now, as a candidate, how am I supposed to condone these inhumane practices? I can't take a stand? The government out of the bedroom doesn't cut it for me. It's about right and wrong, and they are wrong. It is human life, not a choice. It's hard to believe that a woman reserves the right to kill her child in the womb. Yet, Scott Peterson is under a death sentence because of multiple homicide; killing his pregnant wife. So, they have it both ways, apparently? Stacey could have killed her baby legally, but her husband killed her and her baby died and he was tried and convicted for a double homicide.
So, how do I answer the loaded question? The dishonest media will distort my opinion and you just can't win, you are helpless while some reporter with an agenda raves that you are against a woman's right to her own body...which is total bullshit.
So, I guess we need to be progressive, RINO like. I'm sorry but some of these issues are too important to compromise but when you go along, you lose. Why do they need complete freedom to kill a viable fetus in the third trimester? It's shameful and if I was a candidate, I would have to speak my conscience and they will crucify me for my humanity.
Amnesty is one thing, but first control the border. That's all I have to say about that issue and I don't see that it should be controversial? No other country in the world allows illegals to enter, why do we?
Good hunting. El Bee
[ November 08, 2012, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on November 10, 2012, 08:15 AM:
Well put Leonard.
Posted by DEL GUE (Member # 1526) on November 12, 2012, 10:40 AM:
Leonard, I substantially agree with what you said.
CatTracker, I also agree with some of what you said.
Immigration can probably be dealt with and a grey area found that we could all learn to live with. Border control is a must, however, not just for immigration purposes, but also in a terrorism context.
Abortion is another matter. For many, it is a moral issue and a religious issue. Leonard's right..women try to have it both ways. Personally, I'm opposed to it except in cases of rape, incest, and the health of the mother. I don't think when something is a personal moral and religious issue like this that you can ask someone to simply suspend their morals and their conscience for political expediency. That's just wrong and I won't do it.
The gay marriage thing, I'm not on board with it, but like immigration, I think there's maybe ways around it. For many who oppose it, I think the major stumbling block is the term 'marriage', with the religious connotations attendant to that. Civil unions might be one way around it, although some simply would consider that condoning homosexuality and would oppose it for religious reasons anyway. I, personally, am getting kind of tired of the gays getting so belligerent and pushy and demanding. I know more than a few gay people, and I pretty much live and let live unless somebody fucks with me or cops a 'tude, then it's on like Donkey Kong.
The black vote is astronomical because Obama is quasi-black. Once the dems go back to white candidates, the black vote will drop to more historical levels.
The Republicans need to work something out on the immigration issue, and perhaps run a hispanic candidate during the next election to siphon off some hispanic votes from the democratic party. They could say that marriage is a state issue, and thus not a national presidential concern. As for abortion, about as far as I would go would be to say that I don't oppose it in cases of rape, incest, or the mother's health. If asked about Roe v Wade, I'd say that the President is required to follow the law of the land, just like anybody else, and nothing more. But, and I wouldn't be saying this on the campaign trail, if it came before the Supreme Court, I'd be filing a brief to overturn it. As for Planned Parenthood, I'd say that they do a lot of good things for women, and they aren't just about abortion. And every word of that would be true. And as soon as I took office, I'd cut their funding...I wouldn't mention that on the campaign trail, either.
Republicans need to try to find ways to reach out to Hispanics, possibly by running some moderate Hispanic candidates, and to try to occupy more of the center moderate part of the field to attract more moderates and independents. Extremism doesn't win many elections. Moderate articulable positions do.
[ November 12, 2012, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: DEL GUE ]
Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on November 12, 2012, 04:50 PM:
"Extremism doesn't win many elections."
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It won the last two elections. Well Extremism and thousands of illegal votes did anyway.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on November 12, 2012, 06:27 PM:
The thing is; blacks and hispanics both, they are just being used by the Demorats. They want to keep them dependent of public assistance and buy their vote.
So, what do the Republicans do? Offer free stuff, amnesty, etc. Pretty soon, (like NOW) the only people that don't get free stuff is white middle class suckers. BUT DAMMIT, WE ARE THE MINORITY, NOW!
Do you really think dickweed will close the border? Not a chance in hell, them are Demorat voters!
Good hunting. El Bee
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