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Author
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Topic: NYPD Shoots Pit Bull
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted August 19, 2012 11:30 AM
Not to offend anyone here. After watching the video in the link I would be interested to hear your thoughts.
http://gothamist.com/2012/08/14/graphic_video_dog_shot_in_east_vill.php
[ August 19, 2012, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted August 19, 2012 02:12 PM
From what i saw the dog was doing what dogs do and protect its owner. Sure the guy needed help but I think the trigger happy cops could of handled it differently.. Most big cities have some type of animal control that could of been called and they could of caught the dog with a catch pole or just throw a jacket over it...
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted August 19, 2012 04:25 PM
...............and if the guy had died while the cops were waiting for animal control to show up, the cops would have taken much grief for not yadda yadda...
It's a no win for the cops. Even more so with it being filmed.
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Posts: 8232 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 19, 2012 05:38 PM
That dog was dangerous and shouldn't have been allowed in the city, in the first place. Yeah, I would have shot it, if I had a gun, but a kick in the teeth would probably stop the aggression.
All the bleeding hearts standing around were worried about the dog but how are you supposed to give aid to the unconscious man laying on the street if the dog is willing and eager to bite anybody that approaches the man?
I don't like aggressive dogs, period. Cull them.
Good hunting. El Bee
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Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted August 19, 2012 06:50 PM
This might suprise some because i am a "good dog" lover. But i can't see where the cops did anything wrong. They tried to assist the guy on the ground who was in obvious danger from an unknown health issue, who had a dog WITHOUT a muzzle in public??????. And the cops are getting cussed by bystanders for shooting "something" that posed a danger to EVERYONE there. Sometimes even a cop(s) deserve a break.
Had i been involved (as a bystander) i would have left before i got bit.
I have an appx 130+ lb Rott, that prettymuch has free rein here at home. Enter unannounced you will regret coming here. Give me a headsup and you might hear him bark, but leave him alone and alls fine. About 75% of the time when i'm gone, ole Junior is in the house "doing his thing". If someone has bad on their mind go ahead, kick the door in or break a window .....
The dogs OWNER's piss poor judgement got mans best friend shot, because the owner was a dumbass.
BLAME THE IDIOT OWNER for getting the dog shot.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted August 19, 2012 08:13 PM
Better look at the vid. again.. I watched 4 minutes of it and the cops did nothing to assist the guy.. They shot the dog then watched over it for a minute and then just walked around while the dead dog and its owner just layed there..
Think they could of least checked to see if he was breathing...Don't cops have to at least take a basic first aid course..Geesh!!
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5618 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted August 19, 2012 08:48 PM
Correct Tim but..... they were prob afraid of what would ooooze out of the legs and beltlines of their pants. What is also amazing is after the shot not any of the bystanders offered the guy any help either. Maybe 4949 can offer info about "when a shot has been fired", and what the followup is? He (dogs owner) will prob face charges for endangerment & ????
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted August 19, 2012 08:52 PM
The dog went after the lady and than the cop. The cops did what they had to do to stop the problem. That was a no win situation either way, but shooting the dog was the best choice.
Good grief, by the sounds of that screaming lady in the background you would have thought they shot an innocent person.
As a side note, in our quiet little city here, there have been three pitbulls shot over the past 2 months because they attacked people. In two cases cops shot pits when called to a scene of a pit attacking people. In the latest case a guy walking with his wife was attacked and he had a concealed carry permit and used his pistol to kill the attacking dog.
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted August 20, 2012 01:37 AM
lots of big city Liberal emotions in that clip.
buy that cop some doughnuts... good shot!
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted August 20, 2012 05:03 AM
Ok,............ I just carefully watched that clip again and here are my thoughts.
(1) I own a pit bull. If she had or ever does exhibit that behaviour in public I would shoot her myself. It's the unpleasant part of being a responsible grown-up dog owner. (Note; Someone coming into my gated backyard when I'm not around......different circumstances)
(2) Nice shot. Fast moving close shots ain't as easy as they look.
(3) Terminal ballistics; WTF?? The dog went down but for that being the weapon/ammo the cops use to defend themselves against drug crazed wackos they might want to look up the term `double tap`.
(4) At 4:20 in the clip, I believe that was Stan Lee of Marvel Comics who walked by. Probably wasn't, but it sure looked like him.
(5) Listening to the comments in the background. People are stupid. Not much doubt if it's a red or a blue voting area. If obama had a dog it would look like..........
(6) And last but not least; `IF` that dog had gotten into the officer and bit him up; How much would that have cost me the taxpayer??? Medical bills, rehab, time off work, overtime for another officer to replace him, paperwork, etc. etc.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8232 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted August 20, 2012 05:56 AM
Why is this about the fu----g dog what a bout the poor bastard laying in the street!
I love dogs , good dogs. I love people better.
Most people.
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted August 20, 2012 11:00 AM
well...
if that were me having a seizure on the ground, my dog p[rolly woulda been shot too. He is waaaaay protective of me and I FRIGGIN' LOVE THAT ABOUT HIM. But since he isn't a "pitbull", maybe they'd have only maced him??? Can't help but think that...
Obvously, the dog 'bluff charged' the lady on the sidewalk & didn't bite, so why did the cops feel threatened?
What woulda happened if that lady pulled out a .380 and dusted the dog? Would THAT be OK?
Of the dogs I've been around that will bite a human, there ain't much barking when they come for real. Barking is a threat, same as a bluff charge to maintain distance...
What if that unfortunate man's dog were a loyal & protective collie/lab / or crossbred mutt?
Would the cops still have shot first & asked questions later?
What would you have done, Nick?
supposin' if you had a medicial issue & dropped to the dirt, do you think your dobie would stand guard over you?
How bout you, Leonard?
Would that poodle you had as a kid stand up to protect you from what that dog deemed a "threat"?
I ask, keeping within the context of the video. IE, it's pretty obvious that the dog can sense that something is wrong with daddy and its protective instincts are in hyperdrive.
IMHO, that is not an "attack" scenario at all.
If that were my dog, I'd be PROUD OF HIM.
To you guys who think that the dog behavior displayed in the video is bad, or vicious, you need to get rid of them cats cuz they makin' you silly...
[ August 20, 2012, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 20, 2012 11:47 AM
Fred, my parents owned a poodle long after I moved out and joined the Army, I never had a poodle, as a kid. Their fucking poodle used to nip my kids regularly.
Where were we? Okay, a "bluff charge" results in a Mexican Standoff? How is EMT or anybody supposed to help the guy passed out if his fucking dog is bluff charging everybody that wants to help?
I don't see the overly protective actions of the dog to be a positive thing. I mean, really? If you were having a seizure on the sidewalk, swallowed your tongue or something, would you be "loving that about him"?
In the first place, I absolutely do not agree with a dog on city streets, out in the public that is going to bluff charge everybody or threaten or growl at people. People don't like that shit in a dog. Man's best friend is supposed to be (if not friendly) at least not aggressive in casual contact with humans on a sidewalk. If somebody trains their dog to be aggressive and threaten people, there is something wrong with the owner...IN MY OPINION.
Yeah, if the dog prevents people from approaching and giving aid to someone unconscious on a public sidewalk, then deal with the dog any way you have to because it is an obstruction and hardly doing an admirable job of protecting the owner.
(and I am a dog lover)
Good hunting. LB
[ August 20, 2012, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted August 20, 2012 01:20 PM
Sorry for the confusion about the poodle in your past, Leonard. That was my mistake...
I'm sure you can see that the point I was trying to make was that the "pitbull" that caught a bullet wasn't necessarily acting out in an overly aggressive manner. Lots & lots of dogs would prolly respond very similarly in that freak & unfortunate situation...
As for a "mexican standoff" scenario? Easy...MACE THE DOG. Heck, tee off with the baton if ya hafta!!! But the cops escalated right to gunfire, and on a busy city street, no less?
I will submit that IF the dog was going completely apeshit & had already latched onto someone, then I could see grounds for gunfire ot subdue a dog gone looney. But, c'mon...really? The dog is maintaining a barrier of protection from its master...GOOD DOG!
Watch the video again. As Tim accurately pointed out (GULP), nobody was rushing to the aid of the downed human afterward. And its not like the paramedics were on scene waiting to attend to the victim, with the dog keeping them at bay. Several minutes go by and the poor guy is still unattended to.
That said, the dog was doomed from the get-go, and especially so for being a blocky headed "pitbull" type dog. Caught in that position, any dog worth its salt would do the very same for its master. Or, at least many would like to think so?
Very sad deal for all involved...the seizure victim, the dog, the cops & everyone else. So goes Life. Shit happens...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 20, 2012 02:37 PM
I will grant you the baton option could have been employed.
I have no tolerance for aggressive dogs and if they look like a pit bull, even less tolerance. I could maybe see the dog holding his ground and growling but not that bluff charge bullshit.
I'm like Lance, forbid those dogs within the city limits. If somebody wants to train their pit bull to rip the throat out of anybody that wanders near their castle and is okay with the law suit, then fine. As long as the dog is destroyed without a bunch of lame excuses.
The world would be a better place if we could exterminate all pit bulls.
Good hunting. LB
[ August 20, 2012, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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CCP
Knows what it's all about
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posted August 20, 2012 03:31 PM
quote:
Ok,............ I just carefully watched that clip again and here are my thoughts.
(1) I own a pit bull. If she had or ever does exhibit that behaviour in public I would shoot her myself. It's the unpleasant part of being a responsible grown-up dog owner. (Note; Someone coming into my gated backyard when I'm not around......different circumstances)
(2) Nice shot. Fast moving close shots ain't as easy as they look.
(3) Terminal ballistics; WTF?? The dog went down but for that being the weapon/ammo the cops use to defend themselves against drug crazed wackos they might want to look up the term `double tap`.
(4) At 4:20 in the clip, I believe that was Stan Lee of Marvel Comics who walked by. Probably wasn't, but it sure looked like him.
(5) Listening to the comments in the background. People are stupid. Not much doubt if it's a red or a blue voting area. If obama had a dog it would look like..........
(6) And last but not least; `IF` that dog had gotten into the officer and bit him up; How much would that have cost me the taxpayer??? Medical bills, rehab, time off work, overtime for another officer to replace him, paperwork, etc. etc.
Damn good post Kokopelli
I think people forget it's an animal with an 8-10 year average life span.
BTW what are you guys thoughts on shooting neighboring dogs that cross into your deer hunting lease.
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted August 20, 2012 03:53 PM
The shooting of that dog was justified. While reading some of the above responses, I was reminded that the Police often must make a decision in a split second. Those who judge the Officer get to have all of the time they want to decide if that Officer did the right thing or not.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted August 20, 2012 04:13 PM
Right.
Skip over the two non lethal options at the ready, neither of which endanger innocents on a busy city street, and bust a cap in that useless mutt.
Good Police work there ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
And before you go spewing that "you don't walk in their shoes" crap, I'd bet a dollar to a donut that darn near every cop walkin' a beat in NYC already has his mind made up about how to deal with a "pitbull" encounter.
In fact, I've heard from more than a few cops about how they'd react to such an encounter, and you just saw it play out on video.
Not that I blame them, they have a dangerous job. But pulleeezzzzz don't try to pass some shit off that those two cops didn't have other options at their disposal to exhaust before opening fire on a small, barely threatening animal on a crowded city street.
What if the cop missed the dog & skipped a 9mm into the crowd of people? What if someone struck by the bullet was a friend, or loved one?Would you be scrutinizing this situation differently, perhaps???
Obviously, the cop had the training to make a good shot on a difficult target. My question is...should the shot have even been taken? It's not like you die immediatetly from a dog bite, so did the dog even reflect an imminent, life threatening situation to the officers? Methinks: NO.
And BTW, my feelings would be the same if the dog were a mt. cur, cocker spaniel, GSD, or any breed...
[ August 20, 2012, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted August 20, 2012 05:01 PM
"Skip over the two non lethal options at the ready, neither of which endanger innocents on a busy city street, and bust a cap in that useless mutt.
Good Police work there [Frown]"
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And you sir are exactly the type that I am talking about. Your mind was made up from the very start. Dang cops shot a poor unarmed dog. Shame on them.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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Duckdog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3842
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posted August 20, 2012 05:24 PM
I gotta agree with Fred for the most part...
Had they rushed in and attended to the guy, at least then their "reason" would have had some merit.
Didn't pay attention to what city this was in...but,
What if...it had just been a CCW carrying citizen trying to help?
Think he'd have been charged with reckless dishcharge (or something similar)?...I do.
It WAS a good shot, but wreckless nonetheless...
You know, it wasn't like they had to make a "split second" decision, (the way I see it). They came on the scene pretty well knowing what they were going to be up against.
Isn't that why they were there? Didn't someone call them or something concerned about the guy AND the dog?
Seems to me they could have come up with a better plan than,..."we'll walk up there and if the dog comes at us we'll just shoot 'em!!"
So,...what I'm saying is...poor police work.
If that was my family member laying there, and I needed to get in there,...I'd have shot it quicker than him!!
Posts: 205 | From: Ks | Registered: Jun 2011
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted August 20, 2012 06:01 PM
quote:
Correct Tim but..... they were prob afraid of what would ooooze out of the legs and beltlines of their pants. What is also amazing is after the shot not any of the bystanders offered the guy any help either. Maybe 4949 can offer info about "when a shot has been fired", and what the followup is? He (dogs owner) will prob face charges for endangerment & ????
I don't think the owner will be charged with anything, even in NY City.
As Rich indicated, the police officers' primary responsibility is to make the scene safe for the public, and more importantly in this case, the responding medical personnel. As Leonard mentioned, you can't have a dog running around making charges, bluff or not, when a victim is being attended to. Speaking of bluff charges Fred, we have to remember that these cops most probably aren't dog experts like yourself. These guys couldn't tell the difference between a bluff charge and a real one. And I don't think they were willing to take the chance, nor could I blame them if I were in their shoes. To be honest, when I looked at the tape, I kind of thought the same as you, in that the dog wasn't serious about an attack. However...I hate to second guess when I am not present to take full advantage of all the indicators, sights, sounds, expressions, etc. I can't fault the officer for shooting. His job was to make the scene safe and that's what he accomplished, albeit with a risky but skillful shot.
So...what would I do Fred? I can't say. I may have had a little more dog experience than these two guys, thus I may have reacted differently. I think I told my cop and dog stories here before, but one time on a call I was approached by a couple nasty dogs. I gave one of them a flashlight to the face, and they left me but headed for one of my squadmates who was holding a Benelli. My squadmate could not react well enough and got bit. And I really don't think he wanted to start blasting that cannon with me being so close.
My Dobie Fred? I think maybe you were reading my mind. My dobie follows me all around the yard when I cut the lawn. He follows in my path when I clear the snow with the snowthrower. There is a very good chance that if I go down for some reason, this same situation could happen, and he could have to be shot in order to let the medics get to me. I agree with you, he would be a good dog and I would be proud of him for wanting to protect me. On the other hand, I would have to realize the responding officers might have to do the deed if they couldn't get close to me. My dog would cry just like the dog in the video if he were shot. It's heart breaking to dog lovers for sure.
As far as the officers not attending to the guy, most city cops aren't EMT trained. They call EMS and wait. In NYC EMS is usually not too far away. I do think they could have made an effort to check on the guy, though I think they were both a pushed into the next level of alarm from the shooting. They reacted tactically, like they were expecting fire from another direction. I am sure they have heard their fair share of gun fire in the city.
A tough situation to be in.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 20, 2012 07:42 PM
Here I am, defending cops! They dispatched the ridiculous threat and that's a good thing. For the life of me, I don't know what they were supposed to do, offer a treat? Okay, maybe smack the dog or mace the dog....if they had it?
But, they get a gold star for taking out the friggin' dog, even if it was a bit rude. The status and well being of the animal was not of the slightest concern. I do admit that after the dog was down, they might have approached the victim and did an assessment of some kind. I would question that part.
But, this hand wringing over a stupid, aggressive dog I can't understand? If I was the cop on the street, I would have killed it twice, not a second thought, a good deed. I think cops dispatch aggressive dogs more than we might realize? I would not discourage them from doing whatever needed doing.
In the grand scheme of things, that dog had no worth and if they decided that shooting it was not safe, they should have beat it to death. Hey, I wonder how many people have been bitten by that bluff charge dog, in the past?
Good hunting.....and, I love dogs! El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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RagnCajn
ADDS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Member # 879
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posted August 20, 2012 08:09 PM
I like Dogs.
I would have shot that dog.
I like dogs.
I would have gave it a mercy shot to stop the yelping.
I like dogs.
I would then turn and double tap the broad doing all the screaming.
Did I mention I like dogs.
Posts: 362 | From: Shreveport LA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 20, 2012 09:34 PM
Thanks for putting my thoughts in a brief concise statement, Randy. I really like dogs, but it offends me to see a dog display aggression towards humans. And, I like dogs but this one was asking for it, in my opinion.
Good hunting. (I love dogs) El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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RagnCajn
ADDS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
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posted August 20, 2012 10:50 PM
Why Thank you Leonard.
BTW, Did I mention I don't like Screaming Broads.
Posts: 362 | From: Shreveport LA | Registered: Jul 2006
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