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Author
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Topic: Indictments Unsealed in Guerena Case
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted June 17, 2012 05:54 PM
Huuummmmm , So the decendent was a family member of an alleged drug ring? In every story i have read about this , i haven't seen anything to say he was doing anything illegal. Maybe i'm wrong? Appx 10 yrs ago there was a similar shooting here in Okla . An alleged ex con drug dealer shot and killed an OHP trooper & member of the SWAT team when they served a NO KNOCK WARRANT. The shooter was found "Not Guilty" in state court , because the swat team screwed up the raid. One of the officers had an A D , (accidental discharge) while charging his weapon in the shooters front yard at 3:30 AM, BEFORE the raid started. All of the vehicles of the swat team were unmarked & the team members were wearing tactical ninja black
After the trial (In state court) jury members were asked by reporters how they could arrive at such a terrible NOT GUILTY verdict!!!!
One jurors reply was "That could have happened at my home, that could be me on trial".
One member of the swat team came clean about the A D , the rest had lied under oath that it happened. Later the honest member of said swat team was killed in a suspected hit & run motorcycle accident.
Back to Jose Guerena shooting , what would any of you/us have done if the raid was at your home?
NO KNOCK WARRANTS will get ya killed, no matter which side of the door you are on.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted June 17, 2012 06:04 PM
quote:
One member of the swat team came clean about the A D , the rest had lied under oath that it happened.
Did the lying officers get charged/prosecuted?
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1482 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted June 17, 2012 09:41 PM
Not sure how that turned out but i will look it up. The shooter did get re tried in federal court . He was convicted and sent to the pen for life.
The trooper that was shot & killed was Rocky Eades (sp?). When the cop that came clean about the cover up died there was minimal coverage by Okla media & faded away rather fast. I think the other members of the swat team got off lightly because of the re trial of the "cop killer" overwhelmed the front page of the news papers.
I will dig up the names of those involved.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted June 17, 2012 10:27 PM
Dan , i'm not sure how to attach the info but if you don't mind , google the following
www.odmp.org/officer/15294-trooper-david-w-rocky-eales
I miss spelled his name in prior posts (Eales).
using google again , okla trooper shot and killed ( Rocky Eales ). There has been so much mis printed info concerning the events of this case it will make one scratch their head in dis belief. The Amarillo Globe News has a entirely screwed up article available via google also.
Funny how not guilty can get changed to mis trial & life vs death sentence can flipflop in a short period of time. Least we forget how lying under oath can go away in a capital murder case.
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 19, 2012 02:36 PM
Bad situation in the Trooper Eales case. I am glad the dirtbag was finally tried in Federal Court and sentenced to death.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted June 19, 2012 04:28 PM
49, What is this post about? I see nothing new here, what was "unsealed"? This is all the same stuff....kill a man then "accuse " him of being a turd.......did I miss something?
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 19, 2012 07:44 PM
This is new information for your reading pleasure, JD.
I'm surprised Jim didn't beat me to it.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted June 19, 2012 08:32 PM
I must not be paying attention......I see nothing new.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 20, 2012 07:09 AM
Cut and pasted second link above, which is (appears to be) new stuff?
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=18758000
Good hunting. Lima Bravo
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 20, 2012 02:08 PM
Thanks Leonard. The indictment of the family members listed there is new.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted June 20, 2012 10:12 PM
I have given up trying to enlighten those who do not care to be enlightened. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 21, 2012 10:22 AM
Was the dead Marine indicted?
I'm tired of reading things that will still not change the fact that a no knock warrant was served and a citizen was killed defending his own home.
"to protect and serve"
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted June 21, 2012 11:09 AM
I am hopeful that the unsealed indictments and affidavits filed by the investigating officers will reveal that a thorough and comprehensive investigation was conducted before the no-knock warrant was executed.
It is admittedly suspicious that the various family members owned so many assets with no visible means of income, but that, in and of itself, is not illegal. Nor does it constitute probable cause, IMO.
I will give the benefit of the doubt to the LEO's in that the evidence will support their actions on the day Jose was killed. If, by chance, the only evidence to justify their actions was discovered as a result of that warrant execution, then the officers involved should be appropriately charged. In other words, let's say that all they were going on was a hunch that Jose was involved because his family members were known distributors and he had several cars that were worth more than he could afford on the income they knew he had, and the officers served that warrant to justify their gut feeling and Jose was killed, but they later found the evidence in the house needed to make the connection between Jose and the druggies, then someone - an LEO - needs to go to jail.
This would be a lot like my wife's case where they had no evidence to base an arrest upon, but did so anyway and are now scrambling to schmooze what little irrelevant evidence they have to serve and justify their actions.
They either had solid evidence prior to serving that warrant to support the search warrant or not, and if they didn't, then all charges filed against anyone as a result of discoveries made during that search warrant execution should be dismissed. It would be a damned tragic shame to see drug smugglers and dealers go free and a man killed - guilty or not - because someone in a uni jumped the gun.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 21, 2012 12:54 PM
There are the two extremes in play, in damned near every instance. Nobody wants to see the guilty go free; get away with anything. But, looking at it from the other side, an individual expects, nay demands that they be given every consideration and an presumption of innocence. When we have a pedophile abusing children, I have to suppress the impulse to apply a little street justice. If somebody says the robber leaving the 7-11 was wearing a red jacket and I happen to be in the wrong place with a red jacket, I would expect to be given the benefit of doubt, if that's all the evidence against me.
I keep going back to the two instances that I know, beyond any doubt, that I saw two different police officers LIE on a witness stand; not just a matter of opinion, but a deliberate distortion of fact. This does considerable to my attitude toward law enforcement, in general. First, my belief that many, (some) of these guys are in the job for the wrong reasons, they get off on the power trip. Second, a "trained observer" does not see events correctly and ordinary citizen observers see the same thing inaccurately. Cops, as far as I am concerned, exhibit the same range of attitudes and prejudices as everybody else and can make exactly the same mistakes. The problem is they have the guns and the inclination to use them, ie: "bunker mentality". And, they have the establishment behind them forgiving their mistakes and willing to enthusiastically hammer every "turd" arrested by the Boys in Blue because, (after all) if they weren't guilty, they wouldn't be there, now would they?
Yeah, I question authority. My duty.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 21, 2012 05:06 PM
Cdog good post. I would hope that since the warrant was signed by a judge there was solid probable cause for its issuance. At least there should have been.
Leonard you bring up some good points. Years ago when I worked out in western (rural) NJ we had a motor vehicle pursuit which left the highway. The turds eventually pulled over or crashed (I don't remember which) and fled on foot. Their description was of two black males, one of which was wearing a blue sweatshirt, if I remember right. Anyway, this dark skinned Asian Indian doctor who lived in the area decided to go running during that time while wearing a blue sweatshirt. I guess he picked a bad time to go running because one of my buddies mistook him to be one of the bad guys and proned him out at gunpoint. Later on we caught the turds. I walked in the station and thought it was odd to see the lieutenant talking to one of them. It turned out the doctor's description so closely matched the defendants' that I thought it was one of them talking to the LT. In actuality it was the doctor who had stopped in the station to complain about my buddy.
Oops.
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted June 22, 2012 05:26 PM
None of this pertains to the Jose in question....all I see is more smoke and mirrors surrounding the real problem....they killed an innocent man.....where is the NEW evedince pertaining to THAT. Hell we all know there are bad people out there and we might be related to some of them......totally pointless.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 22, 2012 05:52 PM
I think they are floating the "Guilt By Association" defense? I agree, there has not been any information that points to a good reason for blowing this man away. It still looks like a severely botched search in tactical gear, no knock with a siren announcing their assembly in the driveway, bust down the front door, guns blazing and the homeowner shot 57 times. Did I cover the facts, so far? The justifications are murky, at best. I'm hoping somebody goes to jail for some kind of gross negligence?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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CCP
Knows what it's all about
Member # 913
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posted June 24, 2012 08:23 AM
You guys need to put this low life in the correct perspective and you will be able to see what the police see.
This guy came back from Iraq and was only able to find a little above minimal wage job working at night. He then took gifts from his pot dealing family in exchange for putting 2 maybe 3 vehicles under his name and drove one. He was in a vehicle a year or so ago that was pulled over with a small bag of weed and some bubble wrap.
Now if this doesn’t deserve a NO knock warrant with the possibility of a shoot out than nothing will. He just appears to be a Bad, Bad American for sure..
If he would have not been stopped when he was he may have continued to accept gifts from his pot dealing family members and possibly paid off his house or went to school and got a better job. Thank God for the police intervening and putting an end to this destructive life style and saving all of us other Americans.
Maybe the police can put up a list of all the lives and money they saved us by getting rid of this guy?
For those that agree with what the police did, there are lots of books/articles about our founding fathers and their beliefs and intents “please read them.”
quote:
I think they are floating the "Guilt By Association" defense?
You are correct..
Posts: 117 | From: SouthEastern united states | Registered: Jul 2006
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted June 24, 2012 04:56 PM
Yep, I bet once all the facts are on the table we will discover that this blight on society probably even drank a beer from time to time or had sex before he was married.....he deserves to die like a dog.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted June 24, 2012 05:40 PM
You know, I find it a bit troubling that some of you are so far removed from the goings on in this part of YOUR country.
It's too bad the guy chose to grab an AR when the cops were coming in that day, not just for him and his family, but for those who just can't wrap their head around the gravity of the whole situation as well.
We've all been able to see the same stuff as far as evidence and warrants and what not, but there's clearly a difference in how all that stuff is interpreted.
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 24, 2012 05:43 PM
quote:
You guys need to put this low life in the correct perspective and you will be able to see what the police see.
This guy came back from Iraq and was only able to find a little above minimal wage job working at night. He then took gifts from his pot dealing family in exchange for putting 2 maybe 3 vehicles under his name and drove one. He was in a vehicle a year or so ago that was pulled over with a small bag of weed and some bubble wrap.
Now if this doesn’t deserve a NO knock warrant with the possibility of a shoot out than nothing will. He just appears to be a Bad, Bad American for sure..
If he would have not been stopped when he was he may have continued to accept gifts from his pot dealing family members and possibly paid off his house or went to school and got a better job. Thank God for the police intervening and putting an end to this destructive life style and saving all of us other Americans.
Maybe the police can put up a list of all the lives and money they saved us by getting rid of this guy?
For those that agree with what the police did, there are lots of books/articles about our founding fathers and their beliefs and intents “please read them.”
Even CCP is now admitting the deceased is an accessory to the crime. Unfortunately for Guerena, he let himself get involved with the dirty dealings of his family, got himself and his residence targeted in the search warrant, and the rest is history.
[ June 24, 2012, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 24, 2012 05:56 PM
Yeahhhh, but assuming he did associate with his relatives and therefore, (kinda) had it coming.
Compare whatever he did, (if anything) with a creep like Sandusky, looking at 442 years in prison. If anybody deserved a hair trigger response at 6 A.M. it would be this pedophile. I can't even think of the two people in the same context, and that's the deal. Whatever he did is nothing compared to this scumbag that got a fair trial and his day in court; which our deceased vet did not get. Not even close. And, that's the context in which I see this event. Total overreaction by law enforcement, a "oops" of automatic fire that just doesn't seem to match the suspected offense, by a mile. And, that's an understatement.
Good hunting. Lima Bravo
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 24, 2012 06:17 PM
Unfortunately Sandusky didn't point a weapon at the coppers. Not to worry though. The other inmates will take care of him.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 24, 2012 07:35 PM
I watched a piece on tv today, "Caught on camera" this one was a dash cam. A lady had a cat jump out of her arms and she pulled over, turned on her flashers, got out and went after the cat.
A cop plowed into the back of her parked, unoccupied car, with the flashers blinking. Now several more cops show up and one is on the "DUI task force" gets her in front of the camera and pins a DUI on her since she had a beer earlier and was nervous. He of course arrests her, puts her in the back seat, handcuffed.
But then he gets 4 other cops over there and tells them, he'd never lie but she was a drunk so no big deal, he makes up this story that she swerved into the other lane as the cat jumped out and slammed on her brakes so the officer didn't have time to stop. Dumbass forgot the dash cam was still on audio and all 5 were eventually fired, the "drunk" was cleared of all charges.
To protect and serve...
Oh and what was the reason that demanded the no knock search warrant by the ninja swat team?
(It's summer time, what else we gonna discuss?) ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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