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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 15, 2011, 06:53 PM:
Tea Party Leader Arrested After Attempting to Check in With Gun at Airport
Published December 15, 2011
| Associated Press
NEW YORK – A leader of a tea party group was arrested after he took a gun to LaGuardia Airport.
Tea Party Patriots co-founder Mark Meckler was taken into custody Thursday morning after he tried to check in for a Delta flight to Detroit with a locked gun box containing a Glock pistol and 19 cartridges of ammunition, Queens prosecutors said.
Meckler, 49, declared the weapon, as required, authorities said. He's licensed to carry the gun in Grass Valley, Calif., where he lives, but that license isn't valid in New York, which has strict rules on carrying concealed weapons, they said.
"He didn't have a correct understanding of the law," said Al Della Fave, a spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which polices the area's main airports. "Though he has a permit to carry in California, that did not cover him in the state of New York."
Meckler spent the day in jail and was arraigned in Queens late Friday afternoon on a felony weapons possession charge. He was released pending a Jan. 12 court date.
The charge could carry prison time, but travelers who are arrested in such cases and appear to be trying to comply with the law typically pay fines.
The name of Meckler's attorney wasn't available Friday, and attempts to contact him by phone and electronic message were unsuccessful.
***********************************************************
I have traveled several times to several destinations and simply declared my firearm at the check in and it is a routine thing. Apparently, not in New York?
Posted by Patterson (Member # 3304) on December 16, 2011, 07:56 AM:
That is retarded. I would have to assume he had it in a locked case but had it in a larger bag maybe? I dont see how having it in a locked case in the open would be a crime. Then again I try not to stray to the east any more than I have to.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on December 16, 2011, 08:04 AM:
What I don't understand is why we have these laws in light of that whole '.......right to bear arms.....shall not be infringed' thing.
It's not all that complicated.
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on December 16, 2011, 08:44 AM:
KoKo
its simple really,its the people we elected trying to protect us from ourselves. If we were dumb enough to elect them we must be dangerous.
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on December 16, 2011, 09:56 AM:
Unfortunately we can thank George Bush and his patriot act for most of this security related BS that goes on at air ports, I howled about it then and I predicted that this stuff would happen within ten years......what did I win? Oh yea....a free trip to the state pen for owning guns.
And of course there are some places in this country that further the problem with their OWN gun laws.
[ December 16, 2011, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: JD ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 16, 2011, 11:11 AM:
I'm going to appoint you SPIN DOCTOR for the rest of the year! That's a good one!
You sound like Barack Obama; "I inherited this situation from the previous Administration". What I have always been bewildered about is the ACLU screaming bloody murder that the FBI is monitoring phone conversations between known terrorists abroad, and people residing within the United States. I think it would be incredibly dumb if they were not doing it? And, before the Patriot Act, they couldn't do it. We already do things that are stupid; like NO PROFILING, but there are some measures that might be considered an invasion of privacy, but they must be done.
However, arresting citizens who are declaring a firearm, at an airport isn't one of them. That's bullshit, and it's why I hate the idea of traveling to New York.
gh....lb
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on December 16, 2011, 11:16 AM:
I drove into New York State once many years ago, and they had a sign right at the border that said "Possession of an unregistered hand gun carries a mandatory 5 year prison sentence." I was carrying a Colt Gold Cup.
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on December 16, 2011, 12:24 PM:
quote:
there are some measures that might be considered an invasion of privacy, but they must be done.
And there lies the problem LB......you say that SOME things must be done and we willingly let GB take our rights in these areas without thinking that some day we will have Hussien as president....or maybe worse in the future......then you bitch because they step on your rights....oh, that's right, we gave our rights up so GB could catch a fucking raghead.
There are better ways to catch a terrorist than by punishing the masses.
Go ahead and mock me but I will never line up with the rest of the sheep....bahhhh
in all fairness we can't soley blame GB....the whole damn country thought it was great.....we'll show those damn terrorists....we'll give up all our rights to punish them......sheeeeesh....sheep are stupid!
[ December 16, 2011, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: JD ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 16, 2011, 12:38 PM:
Don't be so sensitive, Sweetie, you're not being mocked. The reply is specific to a citizen checking a firearm at the airport and regardless of George Bush and his solutions, I have no problem checking a firearm at either LAX or ONT. Phoenix is a little more hostile, but still manage without being arrested.
However, I am sympathetic. I don't like giving up any right. I had no hand in writing the Patriot Act, but don't you think it is better than nothing?
gh....lb
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on December 16, 2011, 12:53 PM:
I think there are other ways to handle it but it would take a president with a set of brass cojones and would certainly offend 50% of the population and require severe and obvious profiling.
The reason there are so many problems with guns in general, let alone at airports, is because of the atmosphere created by a society who will willingly give up there rights because they don't want to hurt the feelings of some gawdamned raghead muslim terrorist yet spend every moment of there miserable lives looking over their shoulders and peering through peep holes in locked doors and avoiding certain events and venues because of the current "threat level", these same people are the ones who sound the alarm and arrest your ass for checking a gun at the airport.
I hate weak minded ass clowns and believe they have no right to make an important decision concerning our country and MY rights, k-rist...send these happy assholes to France or someplace where they like that sort of shit.
BTW....I'm not sensitive and stop calling me sweetie. It's creepy.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 16, 2011, 02:51 PM:
You got it, Baby Cakes. Sorry.
gh....lb
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on December 16, 2011, 03:55 PM:
Thank you.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on December 16, 2011, 04:56 PM:
I don't get it.
A buddy and I flew out of Newark Airport back in 2002 with rifles. We were going on a hunting trip, and we didn't even drop the LEO bomb when we were checking the guns in. We showed our hunting licenses, airport personnel checked the guns to make sure they were unloaded and locked up, and away we went.
On the return trip, my buddy got all hot under the collar when the security personnel at Dallas/Fort Worth airport went through his bag. I told him they had every right to do so. He said they couldn't. We talked about it and eventually he calmed down. When they got to my bag I told them there were rifle rounds stuck in the boots in my bag, and they were appreciative.
Anyhow, I haven't flown out of JFK or LaGuardia with weapons, but even NY state would have to allow a passenger to legally check a firearm prior to a plane trip.
I don't get it. Perhaps there is more to the story?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 16, 2011, 05:07 PM:
I remember security paging me all over the airport in Amsterdam, while I was hiding in line at the McDonalds. For some reason, I never heard it?
They talked to my wife and said they needed to ask me if my guns were unloaded. I guess they were satisfied with her response; ("I think so?) because they never found me? But I saw two full out tactical storm troopers shake down another guy waiting to board the same plane, a 747.
gh....lb
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on December 16, 2011, 11:24 PM:
49....could be that in the 9 almost 10 years since you were there things have tightened up with TSA and the rest of the fruitcakes having time to get the hysteria up to full speed. Not to mention this guy just "happens" to be a tea party big wig, pure coincidence I'm sure.
[ December 16, 2011, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: JD ]
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on December 17, 2011, 04:26 AM:
That could be JD. I kinda thought that in 2002 it would have been more of a hot issue traveling with a firearm. But I know what you mean, in that they have had time to firm up their procedures.
[ December 17, 2011, 04:27 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on December 17, 2011, 06:19 AM:
Gun laws are strange, would this issue be on the federal level since it was at an airport or would it fall under local or state laws?
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on December 17, 2011, 12:43 PM:
JD, this would fall under state law..NY.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 17, 2011, 01:10 PM:
Had I been asked, worst attitude firearm states, I would have said NJ first closely followed by NY, then CA. Most of the better states are out west, living in the east sucks. Seems like it anyway? Ah, but they have the wonderful changing seasons, pretty leaves, etc. <shrug>
gh....lb
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on December 17, 2011, 04:04 PM:
Dudes,
I've flown out of NY area airports with hunting rifles on over a dozen occasions for hunting trips to points west and not once has there been any issue. Mind you, these are ARs we're talkin' bout, not handguns. But still, I just keep my shit in order, use a quality locked case, show respect to the Port Authority & TSA officers & follow the rules and everything goes smooth. Usually, I get a "good luck!" before the inspection is over... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
The issue with that guy was that he flew into New York State with a personal carry handgun which is only legal for carry in another state. This is not even close to being a sporting rifle taken along for a hunt. So, being that NY doesn't reciprocally honor out-of-state carry permits, he made a big boo-boo by bringing that handgun here. I mean, after all, what was he bringing it for? Damn sure wasn't for the NY deer season, or the NJ bear hunt!
If he brought it to carry and did just that, he'd be in violation of a felony...
Sux, but that's how it be here.
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on December 17, 2011, 05:03 PM:
C'mon now, we know all you New Yawkas stick together and like to pick on the Tea Party.
It said he tried to check in with a "locked gun box" that doesn't sound like he was carrying concealed.
[ December 17, 2011, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: JD ]
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on December 17, 2011, 05:31 PM:
Funny, that he got busted on a flight LEAVING NY, not coming to NY. Story states, he was flying from NYC to Detroit, but does get specific as to how long he spent here in state. Don't know, but as soon as he crossed into NY State, that handgun becomes illegal to possess without a valid license for it...
Soooo, being that he had possession of the handgun in NY for ANY period of time is sho' nuff what got him in trouble. If his trip was a connecting flight thru NYC, he'd have never taken possession of the handgun mid-trip. That case would've remained as 'checked baggage' & already declared...
"there goes yer laig!!!"
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 17, 2011, 07:00 PM:
Fred, you make it sound completely understandable, yet I think it is outrageous. He flies into NY and tries to leave NY and gets arrested?
Are you saying that you can't possess a handgun in NY unless you have gone through the bureaucratic bullshit? Okay, if that's the case, there is no way for a man to avoid arrest because he flew into the state with a legal firearm. And, I suppose (as a nonresident) there is no way he could purchase a handgun while in the state.
And Bloomberg wants to close all the gunshops in Virginia and Pennsylvania and everywhere else that NY residents can drive to and legally purchase a firearm.
Fred, are you okay with the situation or do you understand that your rights are severely restricted in your state? And, I suppose the murder rates and armed assaults in NY are a lot higher than neighboring states, despite all efforts to restrict and ban firearms. Or maybe you don't think that is the case?
From my perspective, it looks like a shitty place to live, as a shooter or hunter, or especially, a firearms collector.
gh....lb
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on December 17, 2011, 07:48 PM:
Here is another article, with some more information:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/16/nyregion/tea-party-group-leader-is-arrested- at-la-guardia.html
Two things from the article jump out at me..
quote:
Mr. Meckler “told authorities that he had the pistol because he gets threats,” according to the office.
So, he pretty much admitted that he carries this gun. In other words, he could give no other legitimate reason for having the gun in NY, for example, hunting, or shooting competition purposes.
The other:
quote:
The gun was not loaded, but “it just as well may have been, as the ammo was right there, accessible,” Mr. Della Fave said.
Al Dellafave's statement clarifies that the ammo was right in the case with the gun. That this was an issue was not exactly clear to me in the other article, though I wondered about it. If Meckler would have had the ammo in a different bag he might have had a better chance, though he would need a valid reason for possessing the gun in NY. Passing through the state with an unloaded gun is permissible, as far as I can gather from the article. But the ammo would have to be seperate from the gun, at least in NJ that's how it is. The article leads me to believe that NY is the same way. Like Fred mentioned, he was returning from NY. His lawyer is trying to use the defense that he was just passing through. We'll see, but the fact that the ammo was in the case with the gun is going to hurt his defense, along with his admission.
I get questions often on the forums about flying into NJ with weapons. It is a tough, and very "iffy" situation. Needless to say, people need to have their ducks in a row before they come here with declared weapons. Just a note, I don't particularly like or agree with the firearms laws here. I am trying to help decipher the situation with the limited information we have from the media.
[ December 17, 2011, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on December 17, 2011, 08:28 PM:
I do know this much. And, I know nothing about state laws in NJ or NY. But, as far as the airline regulations are concerned, there is no reason to have separate containers for ammo and firearms. The ammo can be inside the same container, as long as it is an "approved, lockable container". The only specification is that the firearms are unloaded, and you don't have to show the ticket agent that it is unloaded, to his/her satisfaction, any more. You just have to sign a statement saying the firearm is unloaded. This prevents hauling the guns out and playing with them and causing a scene. Now, you just sign the little red card affirming the guns are unloaded, and be on your way.
I don't know where this restriction on gun separate from ammo came from, but when traveling, it is not necessary.
gh....lb
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on December 17, 2011, 08:44 PM:
Notwithstanding the unbelievably communist laws this is a prime example of an instance when you should exercise your right to remain silent at least his lawyer would stand a better chance of getting him out of any charges. You can talk your way into trouble but nobody has ever talked their way out of it....am I right 49?
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on December 18, 2011, 04:31 AM:
quote:
I don't know where this restriction on gun separate from ammo came from, but when traveling, it is not necessary
It's most definately a NJ (and apparently NY) state law. I agree Leonard, that the airlines don't care. It seems to me the entire situation...unfriendly gun state, ammo with the gun in case, and Meckler's admission, did him in. JD is right, Meckler helped talk himself into this one. Hopefully he will beat it in court.
There was a case in NJ a while back. The guy's flight was making a stopover in Newark Airport, and due to a luggage screwup he ended up having to stay over in NJ with his gun and ammo. When he went to declare his weapon the next day he was arrested. The guy ended up being charged.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/ second-amendment-gun-legislation-discussion/118465-scotus-declines-hear-airport-gun-arrest-appeal.html
This poor guy was a victim of circumstance. If the airline didn't foul up with his luggage he would never have had to stay over with his gun in NJ.
[ December 18, 2011, 04:32 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on December 18, 2011, 05:50 AM:
Leonard, it is what it is. Truthfully, owning long guns isn't a big deal. It's the handguns that he's got a hard-on for.
And as for travelling, the requirement for carrying ammo IN the guncase has since changed. TSA now wants your ammo in a separate checked bag. That isn't NY law, that is now a Federal TSA guideline for any airline travel within the country...
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