Author
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Topic: Curious about suppressors
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 20, 2011 09:56 PM
This has been bothering me for a while.
When DAA and I met up with Scott Huber towards the end of last season, Scott showed up with a sniper rifle with a "silencer".
I don't know about the utility, but I always presumed they were illegal?
I see mention of suppressors from time to time and I'd like a few opinions. Are they effective? Are they legal? Do they degrade performance?
Anybody out there? Fill me in, please.
Good hunting. LB
PS Lochi used one on a 222 Sako for culling work but I did not get the impression that he used it for jackals?
-------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
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posted October 21, 2011 05:04 AM
Don't know about legality in various states, but I have been been calling with hunters using thundertrap suppressors legally and you can shoot the multiples without spooking them. Was a 223 model 700 suppressed. Pretty impressive how quiet to was.. Less then a 22 rimfire for a report.. Hope you are healing well Leonard, sure do feel for you and realize how easy it can be to get in such a situation.My last fall resulted in a concussion. My kids were sure I would be a vegetable for the rest of my life,my wife was sure I am. [ October 21, 2011, 05:08 AM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted October 21, 2011 09:24 AM
A few years ago I researched it and nearly went that route, definitely has some merrit but the cost of the permits coupled with the cost of the silencer along with the rifle, scope and ammo was just a tad too much money for me to justify for shooting coyotes and prairie dogs, not to mention having to convince local wardens of the legality of it the first couple times they spot you with it. If I could use it for game animal I might reconsider. The other issue is that unless you're shooting subsonic .22 you will still have the crack of the bullet to deal with.
My thoughts about the value of having one and where they would be useful.
1....Shooting near livestock
2....Shooting near urban areas
3....Shooting multiple coyotes on stand
4....Shooting directly over my dogs
5....Shooting multiple P.D.s
6....Shooting the neighbors cat off the hood of my truck.
I haven't checked in a while but at the time I couldn't use one for coon hunting at night....that would be a very practical use, for me anyways. I don't think it could be used for coons or at night......could be wrong on that one.
LB .... I'm sure just having this conversation is good for about 5 years in the Califuckya state pen.
-------------------- Jason --------------------------------------
What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted October 21, 2011 10:59 AM
JD #4 is what I been thinking about. I know one of my dogs lost the high pitched sounds, same as I have.
Stay after them Kelly
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted October 21, 2011 03:07 PM
Yep, To me it seems like a legitimate concern, I've had a few instances where I've held off pulling the trigger because of one of my dogs proximity to the muzzle. Not so much at normal distances but sometimes they are just too darn close for me to feel good about it. [ October 21, 2011, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: JD ]
-------------------- Jason --------------------------------------
What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted October 21, 2011 05:27 PM
Buddy of mine had one. No permit. Loaned the rifle to another friend who decided to have a dust up with his wife late one night sufficient enough to have the Sheriff show up. Sheriff saw the silenced rifle in the corner. Got curious.
Long story less long, my buddy had all his guns and gun-related items consficated in a search warrant executed by the ATF folks, who also took his FFL and sat him down to cool his heels in federal prison in Texas for a year. He's a convicted felon now and cannot own guns. Nicest guy you'd ever want to meet and the whole deal was bullshit.
He says he learned his lesson.
-------------------- I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted October 21, 2011 05:50 PM
Legal on a federal level if you get the tax stamp. The suppressor is the controlled item, not the gun it screws onto. Some states have restrictions, and in Arizona they are against Game and Fish regulations only. If I ever win the lottery I plan on getting one and suing AZ G&F under the federal disability act due to losing so much of my natural hearing. That is the big reason why I would like to hunt with one. BTW: I know the local Federal Hunter that controls coyotes in urban areas and he has a 223 and a 22-250 both fitted with suppressors. On heavy caliber guns they really help with the recoil.
-------------------- Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1937 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 21, 2011 09:18 PM
So, in reading what Lance says, it appears that mere possession gets people in trouble. According to others, the restrictions apply to game laws?
Yet, I always thought there was some big deal Federal Statue on the same level as restrictions on machine guns; real full auto machine guns.
Now, I have recently discovered that our police are allowed to have automatic weapons and not too long ago, like in Northridge, the LAPD had to borrow AR15s from B&B Sales? Who the hell okayed that?
gh....lb
-------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off!
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted October 21, 2011 11:09 PM
Federal tax stamp for possession. Hunting applications obviously vary.
Edit: As for the Northridge thing, I'm sure there were citizens in your area code wondering the same thing. You, on the other hand, I hope were being facetious. If not, I repeat, scale back on the meds [ October 21, 2011, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: jimanaz ]
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted October 22, 2011 07:51 AM
¥ep, what Jim said, the guy lance spoke of borrowed the gun from someone who had the permit, he himself did NOT and now he is a convicted felon, as you can see in that example....you better have your ducks in a row if your gonna own one.
-------------------- Jason --------------------------------------
What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 22, 2011 08:03 AM
Only partially kidding....and, I have...scaled back.
But. Just because some nut job decides to plan and execute a suicide bank robbery is not justification for what has transpired since.
There is a certain reservation that will stop anybody driving on the main highway, after dark. The tribal police are now, and have been, for some time, outfitted in( head to toe) full combat attire while driving 15 year old pickups. I just think that these guys have the radios and computers and helicopters and multi-backups, so I fail to see why there is a need for full auto?
Full auto. M$s and M16s have a three round burst selector switch, one way and a semi auto capability, in the other. Against FN/FAL full auto, the guy in his shorts did okay with a semi auto AR15.
I dunno? Some of this stuff seems like a little overkill? If citizens don't need assault weapons to hunt deer; and they are generally unavailable, then I do not see where the police need them, either?
They never needed them before and Bonnie and Clyde had 30'06 BAR's and the rest of them had Thompsons. But that did not result in entire police forces being equipped with weapons of war.....until recently. Maybe I'm just a pacifist?
gh....lb
edit: quote: Federal tax stamp for possession.
so, in Huber's case, he is/was ADC and because of it, does not require tax stamp, or what? [ October 22, 2011, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
-------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted October 22, 2011 08:19 AM
quote: Terminal Ballistics This is my blog. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Thursday, July 24, 2008 Suppressor Law in MN As a firearms enthusiast and resident of the great state of Minnesota, I believe it is past time we reconsider our state's stance on the use of firearm suppressors. Current law stands as such(view full law):
Subd. 1a. Felony crimes; silencers prohibited; reckless discharge. (a) Except as otherwise provided in subdivision 1h, whoever does any of the following is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced as provided in paragraph (b): (1) sells or has in possession any device designed to silence or muffle the discharge of a firearm; ...
Subd. 1h. Silencers; authorized for law enforcement and wildlife control purposes. (a) Notwithstanding subdivision 1a, paragraph (a), clause (1), licensed peace officers may use devices designed to silence or muffle the discharge of a firearm for tactical emergency response operations. Tactical emergency response operations include execution of high risk search and arrest warrants, incidents of terrorism, hostage rescue, and any other tactical deployments involving high risk circumstances. The chief law enforcement officer of a law enforcement agency that has the need to use silencing devices must establish and enforce a written policy governing the use of the devices. (b) Notwithstanding subdivision 1a, paragraph (a), clause (1), until July 1, 2011, an enforcement officer, as defined in section 97A.015, subdivision 18, a wildlife area manager, an employee designated under section 84.0835, or a person acting under contract with the commissioner of natural resources, at specific times and locations that are authorized by the commissioner of natural resources may use devices designed to silence or muffle the discharge of a firearm for wildlife control operations that require stealth. If the commissioner determines that the use of silencing devices is necessary under this paragraph, the commissioner must: (1) establish and enforce a written policy governing the use, possession, and transportation of the devices; (2) limit the number of the silencing devices maintained by the Department of Natural Resources to no more than ten; and (3) keep direct custody and control of the devices when the devices are not specifically authorized for use. Subd. 2. Exceptions. Nothing in this section prohibits the possession of the articles mentioned by museums or collectors of art or for other lawful purposes of public exhibition. Silencers, suppressors, mufflers or whatever you want to call them are legal to own and operate in 36 of the 50 states with the appropriate tax stamps and forms from the BATFE.
Keep in mind that Minnesota law allows for the possession of destructive devices (grenades, launchers, AT-4s, etc.), short-barreled shotguns, and short-barreled rifles.
Suppressors are the only NFA items that Minnesotans are not allowed to own.
Also keep in mind that there has never in United States history been a prosecuted crime committed with a lawfully-owned suppressor.
Suppressors have many benefits, such as lowering noise pollution from gun ranges, increasing the effectiveness of firearm safety courses by allowing the instructors to communicate with students without yelling to be heard, and allowing night-time varmint hunters to hunt coyotes without waking the neighbors.
Hollywood has done a tremendous job of exaggerating the effectiveness of suppressors. We've all seen the movie where the bad guys are running around with silenced machine guns, shooting at the good guy with every shot whisper-quiet.
The truth is that suppressors are much less effective than movies lead us to believe, bringing a painful report down to a level where enthusiasts can fire without ear protection.
The shooting starts around 2:50.
No, no one absolutely needs a suppressor. But then again, no one needs a Corvette or a pool in their backyard. The ability to possess something should not be dictated by need in a capitalist democracy such as ours.
-------------------- What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted October 22, 2011 08:36 AM
quote: so, in Huber's case, he is/was ADC and because of it, does not require tax stamp, or what?
It depends on weither he bought the silencer or if W.L.S. purchased it..
Mn. DNR dose'nt allow them at all for hunting, can't even have a rifle barrel with threads on the end of it...
As for its use to allow a hunter to take multiple shots at pred.s I know quiet a few guys that have taken doubles or thriples with-out the use of one... I think it falls under the catogory of you don't need but would be nice to have, kinda like the decoy, foxbang, decoy dog, FP remote thing...
We have call-shy coyotes, dog shy coyotes so just as well have suppressure shy coyotes...LOL
-------------------- What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted October 22, 2011 10:07 AM
To further the derailment:
My perspective on the deal in Northridge was the bad guys used weapons that defeated body armor and the patrol officers who responded didn't have anything to defeat the body armor the bad guys were sporting. The bad guys stood in plain sight and shot at everything that moved, through windshields, car doors, etc. And they were carrying a BUNCH of extra magazines. Once the cops visited the gun store and evened the playing field, it was over pretty quick. Is my memory clouded?
Seems to me the gangs in the LA area have been using ARs, M16s, AKs, etc for quite some time. If I'm a cop, I sure as hell don't want to roll into a situation where I'm being shot at with assault weapons and having to defend myself, other officers, and the public with a handgun and a shotgun. Do LA cops all have full autos? It's my understanding that cops here all have a semi in the car and only the special teams have full autos?
I don't think ADC guys have to have a tax stamp like a garden variety citizen. Supressors are issued to them as a tool for their job. I have a friend who lives in a newish sub division that borders a preserve. He used to see coyotes in his common areas all the time and running across the roads at night, lots of them. Evidently enough complaints were received and I believe they got a visit from Aznative's buddy. No more coyotes and nobody ever knew he was there, like a ghost. What a cool job. Where do I apply? LOL
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 22, 2011 10:44 AM
No, I remember about the same thing, re: Northridge. My point, (personal opinion) is that an isolated event by a couple of nutjobs is not rationale for outfitting entire police departments with full auto assault weapons. What's next, Squad Assault Weapons? Barrett's? Claymore's and grenades? LAPD just recently, within the past week lost a dozen full auto assault weapons locked in a storage locker. Apparently, they didn't think somebody with an oxyacyelelene torch could get past a couple of locked doors? So, that's part of my concern. Can they control this stuff, when they have it?
gh....lb
edit: yes, cool job; almost like hunting Sonora? [ October 22, 2011, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
-------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 22, 2011 11:21 AM
PS Upland won last night, now 7-0 and ranked #4 in the state, #34 in the Nation.
Not too shabby.
gh....lb
-------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 22, 2011 01:10 PM
I am routinely on the side of civilians rather than police. I believe in the motto; QUESTION AUTHORITY. Just a personal failing, on my part.
gh....lb
-------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off!
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted October 22, 2011 05:14 PM
I'm pretty sure Huber just got the BATF paperwork and the tax stamp. I am in the process of getting all my paperwork done also. I won one at a tactical shoot this summer. They are legal to own here with proper paperwork, but not legal to hunt with, yet. But it is being worked on as I write this. I have been around them quite a bit in tac and target shooting and they would be a great tool for calling. They are legal to hunt coyotes with in S.D. and a few other states.
-------------------- Violence may not be the best option.... But it is still an option.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 22, 2011 08:18 PM
So, how is that thing configured, Cal? A threaded connection, or do you push it on, detent ring, or what?
And, how will it change your POA?
gh....lb
edit: So, Tim. If you can't have a threaded muzzle in Minneesota, what would they say about muzzle breaks, in general? They are all removable, with good reason. [ October 22, 2011, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
-------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted October 22, 2011 09:15 PM
good point Leonard.. All I can say is if the barrel is threaded for a brake they better have it on or close by.. DNR law here states no silencers or barrels threaded to accept one..
Edit to add: Here is the statue;Subd. 4.Silencers prohibited.
Except as provided in section 609.66, subdivision 1h, a person may not own or possess a silencer for a firearm or a firearm equipped to have a silencer attached.
While I was searching Mn. laws I also found out that a silencer bill is up before the senate but won't be looked at till Jan. sometime. Also sounds like it has a good chance of passing but you never know till it happens.. [ October 22, 2011, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
-------------------- What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted October 23, 2011 07:26 AM
All that I have seen are threaded, and my 6.5x47 Lapua is theaded for one. But with that particular gun, when I did shoot it with one, I sighted it in with the supressor on and it shot as well or better than without. Going back and forth is what changes P.O.I., but slightly I am told. Usually less than 1 moa. I am by no means an expert on them and am just learning quite a bit now. But once again, I can see a legitimate application in predator hunting. It is a long way from "silent" but makes my 6.5 (with full house loads) sound about like a 22 mag. I have shot Hubers .243 and thought it was simlar in sound. It also eliminates most of the recoil.
-------------------- Violence may not be the best option.... But it is still an option.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 23, 2011 08:57 AM
Well, you know. I have not hunted Wyoming in a while, and then only the western half. But, general impression is that it is pretty wide open, a lot like most of Nevada. And, this is different from much of California and Arizona where there is a lot more vegetation, like trees which obscures visibility way out yonder.
I think that the report of a rifle when an animal is in direct sight is problematic, because the (coyote) can immediately look in the direction of the sound, and you lack the canyons and cliffs that baffle direction. In other words, a coyote might be 600 yards out, coming to the call and it's fairly easy to associate the howl or distress with the gunshot and this usually arouses suspicion, they check up or lite out for parts unknown.
However, I have seen many situations where visibility is restricted to + or - 100 yards, and as long as the animal has no line of sight, they keep bursting out of the brush line after a shot, and the sound has little or no effect? I can't see how many DO turn tail out of sight, but have seen plenty that come in as singles, same direction or not, and keep right on coming, many times (seemingly) without noticing the report.
To kind of abbreviate the phenomena, I think that as long as the animal does not have a direct line of sight, the sound might as well be thunder and he is just as liable to ignore it, as to run from it.
Therefore; I think there are many situations where a suppressor is useful, and others where <shrug> it doesn't help much. Just like the rest of what we use. Some is handy, some essential, and some you try, and by the afternoon, it's left in the truck.
I dunno? Kind of like what JD said. I wonder?
gh....lb
-------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off!
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Bofire
READ MY LIPS!
Member # 221
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posted October 23, 2011 11:01 AM
They have been legal to own in Washington with a stamp for many years, this year they made it legal to use them. I have a model 47 Winchester 22 rifle that came from winchester with the barrel threaded. They used to be popular for indoor shooting. Carl
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted October 23, 2011 04:20 PM
I expect to have my stamp some time soon, next month. Legal to own and hunt with in Colo., and also now legal to hunt with in KS. as well and since I go back there from time to time I'll be using it there as well. I'm not concerned with a run in with any law because I will have my paper work on my person at all times. I went with a threaded model instead of the QD model. I see no applicable use for QD for me and I plan on having several rifles threaded to be used with the same suppressor. My main reason for the purchase is that I simply am trying to save the hearing that I got left. Suppressor cost less than $1000., and from what I hear is that a good pair of hearing aids cost a few thousand $$'s The process of getting a suppressor is not a fast one, several months of waiting for the feds. to process,...but in the end I think my ears will appreciate the wait.
-------------------- Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
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MI VHNTR
I'm not shaving 'til Obama's gone!
Member # 3370
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posted October 23, 2011 06:08 PM
Michigan recently passed a law allowing the ownership of suppressors. However, I'm not too sure that the MI DNR has allowed them for hunting yet.
-------------------- The Second Amendment isn't about Hunting. It's about Freedom.
MAGA
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